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The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!

 
InfiniteTopHat

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12/14/2012 03:14 AM
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Anonymous Coward
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
"Time is woven into the fabric of space,
it is endless, it moves in cyclic waves,
and when you dream, you dream in cycles.
Life, existence ... finite cycles of the heart."

(Until the End of Time IV, Catie Stewart)


We are discovering more and more every day that life is literally a never-repeating, moving, spiralling dance. We will never be in the same place twice, as we weave our own small threads of experience into a vast and majestic universal tapestry. It could not be complete without you, and me, and all living beings.

Our blue planet does not orbit the Sun in the way we were taught. The familiar, endlessly repeating circles of motion along a single flat plane that we learned in school is a pale representation of the truth of our great voyage around the Milky Way Galaxy.

Besides spinning on its axis and rotating as if going around the Sun, the Earth is shown to follow the Sun’s movement through the Milky Way galaxy, in a continuous spiral, and not a flat elliptical plane, thus we find a 3D universe as opposed to the accepted 2D.

The old model might make one picture being back where you started after a year of time has past, when in fact, you are over 11 BILLION miles from where you were a year ago!


[link to catiestewart.com]



[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1040802


COOL...cool2
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 04:01 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
"Time is woven into the fabric of space,
it is endless, it moves in cyclic waves,
and when you dream, you dream in cycles.
Life, existence ... finite cycles of the heart."

(Until the End of Time IV, Catie Stewart)


We are discovering more and more every day that life is literally a never-repeating, moving, spiralling dance. We will never be in the same place twice, as we weave our own small threads of experience into a vast and majestic universal tapestry. It could not be complete without you, and me, and all living beings.

Our blue planet does not orbit the Sun in the way we were taught. The familiar, endlessly repeating circles of motion along a single flat plane that we learned in school is a pale representation of the truth of our great voyage around the Milky Way Galaxy.

Besides spinning on its axis and rotating as if going around the Sun, the Earth is shown to follow the Sun’s movement through the Milky Way galaxy, in a continuous spiral, and not a flat elliptical plane, thus we find a 3D universe as opposed to the accepted 2D.

The old model might make one picture being back where you started after a year of time has past, when in fact, you are over 11 BILLION miles from where you were a year ago!


[link to catiestewart.com]



[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1040802


COOL...cool2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1582540


bump
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 04:16 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!

 Quoting: InfiniteTopHat


Yes, bump. You gotta watch that one, really. The best youtube video ever. He goes one further and amongst other things shows that not only does our sun travel the milky way as shown in the original video but that our sun travels around a larger sun and it also around a bigger sun and that they are going to allll line up in a giant cosmic conjunction on 12-21-12. I'm on my third viewing of this one, it's so fascinating.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/14/2012 04:20 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!

 Quoting: InfiniteTopHat


Yes, bump. You gotta watch that one, really. The best youtube video ever. He goes one further and amongst other things shows that not only does our sun travel the milky way as shown in the original video but that our sun travels around a larger sun and it also around a bigger sun and that they are going to allll line up in a giant cosmic conjunction on 12-21-12. I'm on my third viewing of this one, it's so fascinating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8640456


bump
Dr. AstroModerator
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12/14/2012 04:24 AM

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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
1. This is stupid. Everyone already knew that the sun moved as the planets orbit.

2. The planets do not trail the sun. The orbits of the planets are very very well established by tons of empirical observation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21160675


^THIS x10000!
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 Quoting: InfiniteTopHat


Yes, bump. You gotta watch that one, really. The best youtube video ever. He goes one further and amongst other things shows that not only does our sun travel the milky way as shown in the original video but that our sun travels around a larger sun and it also around a bigger sun and that they are going to allll line up in a giant cosmic conjunction on 12-21-12. I'm on my third viewing of this one, it's so fascinating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8640456


Wow, filling your head with more crap are you?

Sirius has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.
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12/14/2012 05:09 AM

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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
I love that video
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 Quoting: InfiniteTopHat


Yes, bump. You gotta watch that one, really. The best youtube video ever. He goes one further and amongst other things shows that not only does our sun travel the milky way as shown in the original video but that our sun travels around a larger sun and it also around a bigger sun and that they are going to allll line up in a giant cosmic conjunction on 12-21-12. I'm on my third viewing of this one, it's so fascinating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8640456


Wow, filling your head with more crap are you?

Sirius has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Oh and they mentioned Alcyone too, didn't they? Let's crunch the numbers for that as well just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades as well, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years.
[link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr]
It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second. In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not "going around" Alcyone, the claim is ludicrous crap!
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12/14/2012 05:37 AM

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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!

 Quoting: InfiniteTopHat


Yes, bump. You gotta watch that one, really. The best youtube video ever. He goes one further and amongst other things shows that not only does our sun travel the milky way as shown in the original video but that our sun travels around a larger sun and it also around a bigger sun and that they are going to allll line up in a giant cosmic conjunction on 12-21-12. I'm on my third viewing of this one, it's so fascinating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8640456


Wow, filling your head with more crap are you?

Sirius has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Oh and they mentioned Alcyone too, didn't they? Let's crunch the numbers for that as well just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades as well, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years.
[link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr]
It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second. In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not "going around" Alcyone, the claim is ludicrous crap!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Gravity - the weakest force in the universe. So many conditions. :)
Éireann~

Eisteacht le gra! ~ArunaLuna (Translation from Gaelic: "Listen to Love!")

"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." - Thomas Jefferson, from a Letter to John Taylor written in 1816

"Unfortunately, it is in the nature of man to tinker - even with immutable truth. Thus, we must be ever vigilant... - James Munford

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12/14/2012 05:50 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!

 Quoting: InfiniteTopHat


Yes, bump. You gotta watch that one, really. The best youtube video ever. He goes one further and amongst other things shows that not only does our sun travel the milky way as shown in the original video but that our sun travels around a larger sun and it also around a bigger sun and that they are going to allll line up in a giant cosmic conjunction on 12-21-12. I'm on my third viewing of this one, it's so fascinating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8640456


Wow, filling your head with more crap are you?

Sirius has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Oh and they mentioned Alcyone too, didn't they? Let's crunch the numbers for that as well just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades as well, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years.
[link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr]
It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second. In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not "going around" Alcyone, the claim is ludicrous crap!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Thanks Dr Astro. You clearly know your stuff. Do you know if the sun is orbiting any other star, and do you know what the Mayan cycle actually refers to? Thanks in advance
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
...


Yes, bump. You gotta watch that one, really. The best youtube video ever. He goes one further and amongst other things shows that not only does our sun travel the milky way as shown in the original video but that our sun travels around a larger sun and it also around a bigger sun and that they are going to allll line up in a giant cosmic conjunction on 12-21-12. I'm on my third viewing of this one, it's so fascinating.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8640456


Wow, filling your head with more crap are you?

Sirius has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Oh and they mentioned Alcyone too, didn't they? Let's crunch the numbers for that as well just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades as well, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years.
[link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr]
It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second. In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not "going around" Alcyone, the claim is ludicrous crap!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Thanks Dr Astro. You clearly know your stuff. Do you know if the sun is orbiting any other star, and do you know what the Mayan cycle actually refers to? Thanks in advance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29775086

No, the sun does not orbit any other star, it orbits our home milky way galaxy in general, but no particular star or even the central supermassive black hole. The Mayan calendar ends on the December solstice 2012, which occurs in the period of years where the date coincides with the sun crossing the galactic equator in the sky from the perspective of earth, but this is just an apparent alignment which occurs every year regardless and has nothing to do with the sun or the solar system's physical location relative to the galactic plane. Due to precession this will stop happening on the December solstice in a few years, but for now it's been happening for well over a decade and will continue to happen for a while longer.
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12/14/2012 06:02 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
"Time is woven into the fabric of space,
it is endless, it moves in cyclic waves,
and when you dream, you dream in cycles.
Life, existence ... finite cycles of the heart."

(Until the End of Time IV, Catie Stewart)


We are discovering more and more every day that life is literally a never-repeating, moving, spiralling dance. We will never be in the same place twice, as we weave our own small threads of experience into a vast and majestic universal tapestry. It could not be complete without you, and me, and all living beings.

Our blue planet does not orbit the Sun in the way we were taught. The familiar, endlessly repeating circles of motion along a single flat plane that we learned in school is a pale representation of the truth of our great voyage around the Milky Way Galaxy.

Besides spinning on its axis and rotating as if going around the Sun, the Earth is shown to follow the Sun’s movement through the Milky Way galaxy, in a continuous spiral, and not a flat elliptical plane, thus we find a 3D universe as opposed to the accepted 2D.

The old model might make one picture being back where you started after a year of time has past, when in fact, you are over 11 BILLION miles from where you were a year ago!


[link to catiestewart.com]



[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1040802


Here is a great explanation that says the same.

DPS

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12/14/2012 06:10 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
FYI the helical model does not stop there. our sun is in a vortexial orbit around something else, maybe around the black hole at the centre of the mily way.
Dr. AstroModerator
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12/14/2012 06:15 AM

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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
"Time is woven into the fabric of space,
it is endless, it moves in cyclic waves,
and when you dream, you dream in cycles.
Life, existence ... finite cycles of the heart."

(Until the End of Time IV, Catie Stewart)


We are discovering more and more every day that life is literally a never-repeating, moving, spiralling dance. We will never be in the same place twice, as we weave our own small threads of experience into a vast and majestic universal tapestry. It could not be complete without you, and me, and all living beings.

Our blue planet does not orbit the Sun in the way we were taught. The familiar, endlessly repeating circles of motion along a single flat plane that we learned in school is a pale representation of the truth of our great voyage around the Milky Way Galaxy.

Besides spinning on its axis and rotating as if going around the Sun, the Earth is shown to follow the Sun’s movement through the Milky Way galaxy, in a continuous spiral, and not a flat elliptical plane, thus we find a 3D universe as opposed to the accepted 2D.

The old model might make one picture being back where you started after a year of time has past, when in fact, you are over 11 BILLION miles from where you were a year ago!


[link to catiestewart.com]



[link to www.youtube.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1040802


Here is a great explanation that says the same.


 Quoting: SecondPrecession

Yet more nonsense. The motion of the solar system relative to the rest of the galaxy is irrelevant to the motion of the planets around the sun; all the planets share the same motion around the galaxy as the sun itself, which is why the planets orbit alongside the sun, we do not "trail behind" the sun nor is it impossible for a planet to orbit to a position "in front" of the sun relative to the sun's direction of travel in the galaxy. Indeed, the ecliptic plane is tilted with respect to the galactic plane by about 120 degrees, not 90, even though the vast majority of our motion is along the galactic plane, thus at some points in our orbit we ARE "ahead" of the sun's direction of travel in the galaxy. The video you linked to was created by someone who has not even the most basic understanding of astronomy or how our solar system actually moves.
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12/14/2012 06:17 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
...


Wow, filling your head with more crap are you?

Sirius has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Oh and they mentioned Alcyone too, didn't they? Let's crunch the numbers for that as well just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades as well, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years.
[link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr]
It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second. In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not "going around" Alcyone, the claim is ludicrous crap!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Thanks Dr Astro. You clearly know your stuff. Do you know if the sun is orbiting any other star, and do you know what the Mayan cycle actually refers to? Thanks in advance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29775086

No, the sun does not orbit any other star, it orbits our home milky way galaxy in general, but no particular star or even the central supermassive black hole. The Mayan calendar ends on the December solstice 2012, which occurs in the period of years where the date coincides with the sun crossing the galactic equator in the sky from the perspective of earth, but this is just an apparent alignment which occurs every year regardless and has nothing to do with the sun or the solar system's physical location relative to the galactic plane. Due to precession this will stop happening on the December solstice in a few years, but for now it's been happening for well over a decade and will continue to happen for a while longer.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


How about you mind your own fucking business, astronutter shill

Even Victor Schauberger, who studied Vortex´ for decades said that the Solar system follows our sun in a vortex motion which comes close to the fibonacci sequence.
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
...

Oh and they mentioned Alcyone too, didn't they? Let's crunch the numbers for that as well just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades as well, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years.
[link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr]
It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second. In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not "going around" Alcyone, the claim is ludicrous crap!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Thanks Dr Astro. You clearly know your stuff. Do you know if the sun is orbiting any other star, and do you know what the Mayan cycle actually refers to? Thanks in advance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29775086

No, the sun does not orbit any other star, it orbits our home milky way galaxy in general, but no particular star or even the central supermassive black hole. The Mayan calendar ends on the December solstice 2012, which occurs in the period of years where the date coincides with the sun crossing the galactic equator in the sky from the perspective of earth, but this is just an apparent alignment which occurs every year regardless and has nothing to do with the sun or the solar system's physical location relative to the galactic plane. Due to precession this will stop happening on the December solstice in a few years, but for now it's been happening for well over a decade and will continue to happen for a while longer.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


How about you mind your own fucking business, astronutter shill

Even Victor Schauberger, who studied Vortex´ for decades said that the Solar system follows our sun in a vortex motion which comes close to the fibonacci sequence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29849356

Make me.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
"Schauberger's theories aren't accepted in the scientific community."
He was a forest warden with delusions of grandeur. I was even asked for a response there, so I gave it. You want to shut me up? You're going to have to do it the hard way.

Last Edited by Dr. Astro on 12/14/2012 06:21 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!


all the planets share the same motion around the galaxy as the sun itself, which is why the planets orbit alongside the sun, we do not "trail behind" the sun nor is it impossible for a planet to orbit to a position "in front" of the sun relative to the sun's direction of travel in the galaxy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1040802


Says who?

Prove it with links, otherwise shut the fuck up. Your knowledge in real Astronomy is laughable.

Tesla, Fibonacci and Marconi would laugh the shit out of you.
Éireann
Eisteacht le gra!

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12/14/2012 06:22 AM

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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
...

Oh and they mentioned Alcyone too, didn't they? Let's crunch the numbers for that as well just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades as well, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years.
[link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr]
It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second. In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not "going around" Alcyone, the claim is ludicrous crap!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Thanks Dr Astro. You clearly know your stuff. Do you know if the sun is orbiting any other star, and do you know what the Mayan cycle actually refers to? Thanks in advance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29775086

No, the sun does not orbit any other star, it orbits our home milky way galaxy in general, but no particular star or even the central supermassive black hole. The Mayan calendar ends on the December solstice 2012, which occurs in the period of years where the date coincides with the sun crossing the galactic equator in the sky from the perspective of earth, but this is just an apparent alignment which occurs every year regardless and has nothing to do with the sun or the solar system's physical location relative to the galactic plane. Due to precession this will stop happening on the December solstice in a few years, but for now it's been happening for well over a decade and will continue to happen for a while longer.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


How about you mind your own fucking business, astronutter shill

Even Victor Schauberger, who studied Vortex´ for decades said that the Solar system follows our sun in a vortex motion which comes close to the fibonacci sequence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29849356

Victor Schauberger the Forest Ranger? Making a philosophical observation doesn't mean it's backed by any real science.
Éireann~

Eisteacht le gra! ~ArunaLuna (Translation from Gaelic: "Listen to Love!")

"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." - Thomas Jefferson, from a Letter to John Taylor written in 1816

"Unfortunately, it is in the nature of man to tinker - even with immutable truth. Thus, we must be ever vigilant... - James Munford

“It is a sad fate for a man to die too well known to everybody else, and still unknown to himself.” - Francis Bacon

"Better the illusions that exalt us than ten thousand truths" - Aleksander Pushkin
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I do not give negative Karma. I believe that all opinions are worthy of debate and discussion. Free speech is essential to the growth and advancement of each individual and all of Humankind.
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 06:24 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!



...

Make me.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
"Schauberger's theories aren't accepted in the scientific community."
He was a forest warden with delusions of grandeur.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29775086


You're not a bright one, are you? Quoting Wikipedia? Lmfao.

Astronutter, you say you work in the name for science but you deny great scientists who accomplished awesome things. You're just a shill.

Victor Schauberger's Ideas of using Vortex' beyond our understanding was revolutionary for industrialisation. He was betrayed by the same people who stole his patents, you fucking idiot. Get some real knowledge. You fucking fucktwat.

Éireann
Eisteacht le gra!

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12/14/2012 06:27 AM

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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!



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You're not a bright one, are you? Quoting Wikipedia? Lmfao.

Astronutter, you say you work in the name for science but you deny great scientists who accomplished awesome things. You're just a shill.

Victor Schauberger's Ideas of using Vortex' beyond our understanding was revolutionary for industrialisation. He was betrayed by the same people who stole his patents, you fucking idiot. Get some real knowledge. You fucking fucktwat.


 Quoting: Dr. Astro

AC - as I said. He made a beautiful, philosophical observation. But what Astro is saying is that so far such an epiphany isn't backed by any solid science.

I happen to like Schauberger's concept. I just haven't seen it proved yet.
Éireann~

Eisteacht le gra! ~ArunaLuna (Translation from Gaelic: "Listen to Love!")

"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." - Thomas Jefferson, from a Letter to John Taylor written in 1816

"Unfortunately, it is in the nature of man to tinker - even with immutable truth. Thus, we must be ever vigilant... - James Munford

“It is a sad fate for a man to die too well known to everybody else, and still unknown to himself.” - Francis Bacon

"Better the illusions that exalt us than ten thousand truths" - Aleksander Pushkin
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
I do not give negative Karma. I believe that all opinions are worthy of debate and discussion. Free speech is essential to the growth and advancement of each individual and all of Humankind.
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 06:29 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
...

Thanks Dr Astro. You clearly know your stuff. Do you know if the sun is orbiting any other star, and do you know what the Mayan cycle actually refers to? Thanks in advance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29775086

No, the sun does not orbit any other star, it orbits our home milky way galaxy in general, but no particular star or even the central supermassive black hole. The Mayan calendar ends on the December solstice 2012, which occurs in the period of years where the date coincides with the sun crossing the galactic equator in the sky from the perspective of earth, but this is just an apparent alignment which occurs every year regardless and has nothing to do with the sun or the solar system's physical location relative to the galactic plane. Due to precession this will stop happening on the December solstice in a few years, but for now it's been happening for well over a decade and will continue to happen for a while longer.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


How about you mind your own fucking business, astronutter shill

Even Victor Schauberger, who studied Vortex´ for decades said that the Solar system follows our sun in a vortex motion which comes close to the fibonacci sequence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29849356

Victor Schauberger the Forest Ranger? Making a philosophical observation doesn't mean it's backed by any real science.
 Quoting: Éireann


Shut the fuck up, you don't anything about Schauberger. Schauberger Glocke, anti gravity based on electro magnetism came from him. Good luck with living in your paradigm.
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 06:30 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
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Wow, filling your head with more crap are you?

Sirius has a proper motion of 1.2 arcseconds/year in declination and .546 arcseconds per year in right ascension (15 km/sec and 6.8 km/sec velocity relative to our solar system respectively). Since we're about 8.6 light years from the Sirius system, and since Sirius A and B have a combined mass of nearly 3 times the sun's mass, the escape velocity from the Sirius system at the distance of our sun is about 0.1 km/sec. In other words, our solar system is traveling many times too fast relative to Sirius to be able to orbit it or be in a trinary configuration with it.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Oh and they mentioned Alcyone too, didn't they? Let's crunch the numbers for that as well just to show you how ridiculous this is. Alcyone is of course part of the Pleiades as well, so let's use the total mass of the Pleiades cluster to see if we're orbiting it. Alcyone has a parallax of about 8.09 milliarcseconds, which corresponds to a distance of about 402 light years.
[link to simbad.u-strasbg.fr]
It also has a proper motion of about 19.34 milliarcseconds in right ascension and -43.67 milliarcseconds in declination per year. Now at a distance of 402 light years, those 43.67 milliarcseconds/year in declination translate to 805,195,033 kilometers per year or about 25.515 km/second. Now the Pleiades cluster has a total mass of about 740 sun masses ( [link to arxiv.org] ), so at a distance of 400 light years, the escape velocity for the entire Pleiades cluster is about 0.227861 km/second. In other words, even just taking into account our proper motion in declination, to say nothing of our total motion relative to Alcyone including in right ascension and radial velocity, we're traveling over 100 times too fast to be orbiting the Pleiades! We are not "going around" Alcyone, the claim is ludicrous crap!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Thanks Dr Astro. You clearly know your stuff. Do you know if the sun is orbiting any other star, and do you know what the Mayan cycle actually refers to? Thanks in advance
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29775086

No, the sun does not orbit any other star, it orbits our home milky way galaxy in general, but no particular star or even the central supermassive black hole. The Mayan calendar ends on the December solstice 2012, which occurs in the period of years where the date coincides with the sun crossing the galactic equator in the sky from the perspective of earth, but this is just an apparent alignment which occurs every year regardless and has nothing to do with the sun or the solar system's physical location relative to the galactic plane. Due to precession this will stop happening on the December solstice in a few years, but for now it's been happening for well over a decade and will continue to happen for a while longer.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Thanks for a very comprehensive answer. I'm really trying to find out the actual science behind the Mayan calender because these ancient astronomers had a very clear understanding of the cyclical nature of the galaxy, and went to an enormous effort to illustrate the importance of December 21 2012. So my question is, what started 13 baktuns (5125 years) ago that will begin again next Friday?
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 06:30 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
This means there is an energy we are unaware of which holds the planets in place.

Otherwise, with out it, the planets would fly off into space.


The great serpent rope is that bond, I believe.
Anonymous Coward
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12/14/2012 06:31 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!



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AC - as I said. He made a beautiful, philosophical observation. But what Astro is saying is that so far such an epiphany isn't backed by any solid science.

I happen to like Schauberger's concept. I just haven't seen it proved yet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29849356



Edward Leedskalnin who build the coral castle, Hutchison who is well known for his anti gravity devices both quotes schauberger as inspiration for their knowledge.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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12/14/2012 06:33 AM

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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
How about you mind your own fucking business, astronutter shill
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29849356

Calling people names doesn't proof anything.

Even Victor Schauberger, who studied Vortex´ for decades said that the Solar system follows our sun in a vortex motion which comes close to the fibonacci sequence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29849356

Somebody "important" said it so it must be true is the logical fallacy known as Appeal to Authority.

It is not how rational people determine truth.
It's more like how religions operate.
There are no popes in science.

There's observation, there's logic, and there is maths.
Which tells as that relative to the centre of the galaxy the average velocity of the Solar system's planets is the same as the Sun's.
It has to be, otherwise the Sun would lose the planets.
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Dr. AstroModerator
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12/14/2012 06:36 AM

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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!


all the planets share the same motion around the galaxy as the sun itself, which is why the planets orbit alongside the sun, we do not "trail behind" the sun nor is it impossible for a planet to orbit to a position "in front" of the sun relative to the sun's direction of travel in the galaxy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1040802


Says who?

Prove it with links, otherwise shut the fuck up. Your knowledge in real Astronomy is laughable.

Tesla, Fibonacci and Marconi would laugh the shit out of you.
 Quoting: SecondPrecession


Says who? Says hundreds of years of astronomy. Learn some basic celestial mechanics. How about "The elements of the four inner planets and the fundamental constants of astronomy" for starters:
[link to books.google.com]
And...
[link to adsabs.harvard.edu]
You don't even realize that our ecliptic plane is not square with our direction of travel in the galaxy, and you have the gall to tell me to shut the fuck up and that my knowledge of astronomy is laughable? Shut the fuck up yourself. The solar apex, our solar system's direction of travel projected onto the sky has the coordinates of about 18hr RA, +30 degrees Dec ( [link to books.google.com] ) whereas our north ecliptic pole has coordinates of about 18hr RA, +66.5 degrees Dec.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Therefore, our planet is at some points in its orbit "ahead" of the sun in the sun's direction of travel through the galaxy, specifically this condition is at its peak when the sun's position along the ecliptic in our sky is at 6hr RA, in other words, at the June solstice.

Last Edited by Dr. Astro on 12/14/2012 06:38 AM
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12/14/2012 06:39 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
How about you mind your own fucking business, astronutter shill
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29849356

Calling people names doesn't proof anything.

Even Victor Schauberger, who studied Vortex´ for decades said that the Solar system follows our sun in a vortex motion which comes close to the fibonacci sequence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29849356

Somebody "important" said it so it must be true is the logical fallacy known as Appeal to Authority.

It is not how rational people determine truth.
It's more like how religions operate.
There are no popes in science.

There's observation, there's logic, and there is maths.
Which tells as that relative to the centre of the galaxy the average velocity of the Solar system's planets is the same as the Sun's.
It has to be, otherwise the Sun would lose the planets.
book
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD


You don't know anthing about the Fibonacci sequence, do you?
Dr. AstroModerator
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12/14/2012 06:39 AM

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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!



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You're not a bright one, are you? Quoting Wikipedia? Lmfao.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

You deserve nothing better. Go take your forest warden's bullshit and fuck off yourself.
astrobanner2
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12/14/2012 06:46 AM
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Re: The Helical Model - Our Solar System Is A Vortex!
Astromut, you should pick your fights... You will never win this one. Gravity is exponentially weakened over distance, and you discount the possiblity of an electrical relationship between stars, why?

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