I was listening to Eben (the neurosurgeon with the NDE) last night and one thing stuck out to me...

"the brain is the filter that disconnects us from the God experience."

From the OP's first post. Is there nobody sees the absolute irony in that statement....


....just me. Oh! well..

..ROTFLMAO.

Speaking of filters, food is another thing that cuts off the spirit. Fast for no less than a week and you'll go into the spirit much easier, a lucid dream experience but it's not a dream.

that's the parents doing that.
if a child has a 'friend' the parents can't see they say; stop acting silly.

if the parents would not do that for two generations we would have a quite rather different world.

Hmm, that's an interesting way to think of it.

I've heard many say that we're a reflection of our souls, and that when we kick it we're still the same person with the same personality and everything.

But I always saw a problem with that, and that's one tiny reason why I have my doubts about the existence of the soul. If what many say about souls is the case, then why can people suddenly become very mean and evil because they have a brain tumor pushing on a certain area of their brain? Or someone takes so many drugs that eventually they lost the ability to love? If you were a goodly person with a goodly soul, how could you become nasty because of a change in your brain? I'm talking core, structural changes in the self for purely physical reasons. The person that we are can change very dramatically, and not due to experiences, but due to simple brain chemistry.

One way to explain that, however, is through what you said. We're our souls, but the brain governs what part gets through, filtering the input from our souls, so by the time that filtering is done our human selves are not a one-to-one reflection of our soul selves.

I never understood why people clamor for these types of stories. Somebody supposedly returns from the dead, with a story and a movie deal, and suddenly their experience is reality for you.

Why can't you accept what you know to be true?

If you have faith you would not need reassurance from these stories. If you don't have faith, these stories probably won't change that. So what gives? Is your faith wavering?

I believe in God, and that is all that matters to me. Whether the experience I have when I die is what I have been told stereotypically is Heaven or Hell it doesn't matter, because I trust in God. We were all put into this reality for a reason, it wasn't a mistake. It wasn't the "chaos" that scientists want everyone to believe, it was His orders.

Take strength in your faith, live your life as a good person and help others. The rest will fall into place.

I think you're right about the brain being a filter that cuts us off from our true reality. But I don't agree that it's more of a hindrance than a help. While we're in the physical world I think we need that separation to learn fundamental lessons, and develop our souls in ways that we couldn't if we were still in touch with the big picture.
His was an amazing NDE. There's a really good full interview with if anyone's interested, here:

[link to videos.sorensonmedia.com]

look into whats called neurotheology.

When we die we get sent to holding pens to sit for a while before being sent right back in. Some call it heaven and hell. We get mind wiped during the process. Why else don't/can't we return and let our loved ones know?

Heaven has a positive charge. Hell has a negative charge. Earth is the ground. Something is using us like a battery. An energy cycle. And I don't like it.


Maybe its him. shoot the kool aid man.

Interesting, I will have to read on this man for personal reasons. I am by most standards as viewed here on earth, an old man, one whom has faced death, watched many die, close friends and students as well. I have always looked forward to returning home.

One here mentioned not using the word God and I agree. A few years ago events were very bad in my life, I was in continued unrelenting pain and being attacked by egocentric local township officials. As I sat there one day, having gave up, exhausted with this game, I was taken out of body and found myself with this presence some may call god. It was just so much love and as it gathered up my soul, it was like a mother taking a child to herself whom was injured, it was more than life, it stirs me to relate it, even now. I have no religious affiliation, but know more than many whom do.

I don't know if any of you have seen this one. Interesting!

This is another interesting one.

A must read on out of body experiences is the Robert Munroe trilogy - Journeys out of the body, Far Journeys, and Ultimate Journey...

These books are very detailed about the astral planes surrounding this planet...Every belief system that ever was on this planet is represented there...

The spirit stream that connects, and animates your body, when it is no longer connected, is no longer bound by the filters and limitations of the body...

The astral is a hands on creation place, and the only limitation is the persons belief...So-called heaven, hell, etc. are there, becfause there are many who believe in this concept, and it is the energy they put into it, that makes it exist...

These constructs are temporary, and as the belief in them withers, so does the construct...

As Robert Munroe said - "The greatest illusion is, the illusion that we have limitations"...

I have come to the same conclusion from my own experience. But most of the time we are too closed up and/or distracted to experience these connections.

In the big picture, we are all connected, as we all spring from the prime source...

However, while engaged in the galaxy for experiential experiences, we are anything but connected...

that's the whole point.
here is a neurosurgeon that has an experience and comes away from it with an completely different understanding of the role of the brain.

this guy spent more than 15 years in medical school studying the brain.

the irony is profound
and it's wonderful

yes. it seems that when we deny the flesh in a variety of ways we get closer to God.

go without sex for a long time and the same thing happens.

filters being built in the brain cannot be helped. it is part of the human experience.

we create our own filters as well.

it is what it is

but, now that we know, we can tap into our consciousness in spite of the brain and let God drive the bus, knowhatimean/

Eben says he had no memory of his former life, language, memories of a physical body, etc.

however, his brain was very sick.

i think that we stay essentially who God made us to be as individuals, but that everything pertaining to the flesh dissolves. that could be opinions, judgments, values, sentimental stuff, nostalgic feelings, etc.

anything that is attached to the flesh, filtered from the brain, and formulated from our human experience - i think that part gets dissolved.

remembering our loved ones seems to stay in tact.

There is so much pain in the human experience. I'm sorry you've been hurting.

It gives us something to look forward too knowing there is a World of love and joy.

In his book he mentioned he saw dogs leaping with joy. I cannot wait to see my old beloved animals.

I don't have sound on this computer.... but is this the one where he was pilot and they crashed and he saw the souls leaving the body as beings of light? If it is, I also found it very profound.

That poor man has been through a lot!

Interesting thread!
I'm wondering if anyone knows more, why it seems to be easier to reach closer to "the God" experience depending on how we treat the body. It must be someone that has investigated this deeper?

incredible! wish we could have coffee and talk more....

maybe ask God to reveal what He wants to you and wait for it to show up?

I think ^^THIS^^ is the initial thing to do before beginning the study of a passage of Scripture, too.

I grew up in an abusive home. I suffered depression and symptoms of PTSD brought about from the years of child abuse. After years of living like that I gave up. I decided to take my life one afternoon when I was 15. It took 7 months to bring myself to the point I could do it. In January 1986 at the age of 16 I went out into a secluded patch of woods. About one quarter of a mile away from any help. I took a .22 caliber rifle. It was the only gun I could smuggle out of the house. I also grabbed a bible. Where we lived, the nearest hospital was twenty minutes away. The nearest squad was twenty minutes away and an all volunteer system. They had to be summoned with pagers and air horns from their places of employment and farm fields. There were maybe 5 homes in a one mile area around me and no one was home accept at my home. One family member 7 years yougner than me and a grandparent.

When I reached the woods I sat down next to a small creek. I sat for an hour and wrestled with myself. It was about 4:30-4:45 in the evening when I decided I didn't have the resolve to pull the trigger. I got up and started to walk home. After a few dozen paces I remembered I was facing another round of being shoved around the house and called an F*n loser. I gave up and went and sat back down and loaded the rifle.

I tried reading the bible but it was one of those Gideon bibles and very small print. It was also King James Version and I struggled with the print. I asked God to send an Angel to deliver me. I assumed I would have a burning bush moment...never happened. Just silent woods, briars and the sound of a small brook and its flowing water. I laid the rifle 1 inch left of sternum. If I knew what I know today, the outcome would have been different. I was thinking of Pledge of Allegiance and oath taking ceremonies. Through life some have ridiculed me and asked why I didn't aim at my head. I told them: I wanted to look human when they found me. I figured one shot through the heart and I would wake up in heaven. I reached down with my thumb and pulled the trigger. When the rifle went off I knew I had made a terrible mistake. I wanted the moment over before, again. Once the gun goes off the bullet is gone forever. I believe I was led out of the woods by an Angel.

I am not sure how long I went without surgical intervention. Maybe 90-120 minutes. The bullet broke apart inside of me. The surgeon left a portion of the shrapnel next to my spine. He wasn't able to remove it without risk of paralyzing me.

Four days after the shooting. I was recovering in a hospital room and watching television. No one had spoken to me about the shooting. No one closed a curtain and wheeled up a stool next to me to chat. I was stuggling to eat ice chips at the time. I watched the space shuttle go down in flames. I watched them die. My thought: They went further than me. I knew they passed through a veil. I only touched it. I wish I could remember my NDE like so many of these writers. I simply am not. I have sensations but no recollection how I got them. I can still feel the surgeons hands on my heart doing cardiac massage. I remember being in a trauma room. I had been probably 90 minutes post shooting at this point. Really couldn't breathe. The staff worked frantically around me. I remember raising my head and turning to my right and saw my family looking at me from outside in a hallway. They were upset and started to walk away. I wanted to talk to them. Tell them I was fine and to please not be angry with me.

I found out: Life is a gift. We take for granted things of value until we lose them. I found I took for granted my own life. I wanted to live.... I was thankful to be alive when I woke up in the ICU. I didn't want to die by suicide. I hated I quit on my own life even though a bully beat on me most of my life. I never hurt myself like that again. I continue to suffer with depression and PTSD issues but overall I am glad I've known my life......I wish I could ad more to this conversation and the NDEs. One symptom I had, rarely discussed but I have seen it in universities, "Life Flash Forward." this is what saved my life that day. I felt I was permitted to flashforward and see my life as it is today. The moment lasted only in the blink of an eye. It was powerful enough to calm my fear and extend hope. I felt if I made the effort to get towards help than I may survive and live the life I felt and heard.

Here is the full episode:
[link to www.oprah.com]

wow, thank you!!

I just came across this quote:

“Learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.”
- Leonardo da Vinci