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Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????

 
Indysmindy

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12/15/2012 03:08 PM

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Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Some physicists and university researchers say it's possible to test the theory that our entire universe exists inside a computer simulation, like in the 1999 film "The Matrix."

In 2003, University of Oxford philosophy professor Nick Bostrom published a paper, "The Simulation Argument ," which argued that, "we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation." Now, a team at Cornell University says it has come up with a viable method for testing whether we're all just a series of numbers in some ancient civilization's computer game.

Researchers at the University of Washington agree with the testing method , saying it can be done. A similar proposal was put forth by German physicists in November.



More:

[link to news.yahoo.com]





Ok, now we understand !

Last Edited by Indysmindy on 12/15/2012 03:11 PM
**The first step to salvation is to realize that we are all sinners:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
NagUrSol

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12/15/2012 03:10 PM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
dont know if its just me, but the link is dead...

but nice post thanx!
Fuck every Religions,''GOD''is a Lie, look around you ...DONT JUGE ME ! ! ! ...or do, i dont realy care
G3
G3

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12/15/2012 03:12 PM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
ARTICLE LINK:

[link to news.yahoo.com]
Indysmindy (OP)

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12/15/2012 03:12 PM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
I just re edited it.... It went to GLP hater be4 ? Weird .... I think the first link was to David dIckes website - but I relinked it ....try now
**The first step to salvation is to realize that we are all sinners:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Indysmindy (OP)

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12/15/2012 03:12 PM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
ARTICLE LINK:

[link to news.yahoo.com]
 Quoting: G3


THX U!!!
**The first step to salvation is to realize that we are all sinners:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Indysmindy (OP)

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12/15/2012 03:13 PM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
[link to www.glp_hater]



Wow...I relinked the first link I had - it was David dIckes link... and it becomes blank only as GLP hater. Does he hate GLP? I thought we use a lot of his info. ? Isn't he one of GLP's hero's ? LOL

Last Edited by Indysmindy on 12/15/2012 03:14 PM
**The first step to salvation is to realize that we are all sinners:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Anonymous Coward
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12/15/2012 03:19 PM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
QCD, the theory of quarks and gluons.

The reason we are here is to find out how we are here. What is the trick? What is the divine mechanism that gives form and substance to all things? Any other questions are waste of fucking time. This is the only worthwhile pursuit in the universe,
Indysmindy (OP)

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12/15/2012 03:55 PM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
QCD, the theory of quarks and gluons.

The reason we are here is to find out how we are here. What is the trick? What is the divine mechanism that gives form and substance to all things? Any other questions are waste of fucking time. This is the only worthwhile pursuit in the universe,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29965045


I just think this is another theory to add upon the world to confuse us. Of course we are not as a computer game. If so... the delete button will be pushed in the future?
**The first step to salvation is to realize that we are all sinners:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
G3
G3

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12/16/2012 02:12 AM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
bump
Hulk Hogan Leg Drop

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12/16/2012 02:14 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
I read the article earlier on Saturday morning, interesting concept.
Anonymous Coward
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12/16/2012 02:24 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
we are surely a simulation

that doesn't mean good or bad or God or Satan don't exist

it just means, this is a ride we are on

when it is over, you will again remember why you partook in this simulation

most likely a fundamental part of this simulation is that we can't remember who we are or that it's a simulation - hence the nature of the game we call life

the big mystery, thats a game

Real question is, are we in this simulation by choice, a choice we made before partaking, or were we tricked and this simulation is meant to keep un inactive in our true state?
Anonymous Coward
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12/16/2012 02:29 AM
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bump
Anonymous Coward
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12/16/2012 02:31 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
[link to www.ustream.tv]
Anonymous Coward
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12/16/2012 02:48 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
The odds that we aren't a simulation are so small that it's nearly impossible we're anything else.

On the good side, we're still whoever and whatever, we were yesterday.

It does not make us less than we were, we will just know more about it when we figure it out for certain.

I think most people will respond with simple denial of the idea, rationalizing the information and data away, so it won't be a huge problem. It seems like it should be world shaking news, but... Honestly? No.

It will mean that religion is almost certainly false however, at least those with an afterlife and all that.

Why would that be programed in?

That's fine, if it's the case then we merely need to turn out attention to ensuring we don't die. Find the holes in the system and exploit them, and eventually learn to escape the box we're in and explore what exists beyond. Hard to do!

But it's something to dream about.
Anonymous Coward
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12/16/2012 02:51 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
we are surely a simulation

that doesn't mean good or bad or God or Satan don't exist

it just means, this is a ride we are on

when it is over, you will again remember why you partook in this simulation

most likely a fundamental part of this simulation is that we can't remember who we are or that it's a simulation - hence the nature of the game we call life

the big mystery, thats a game

Real question is, are we in this simulation by choice, a choice we made before partaking, or were we tricked and this simulation is meant to keep un inactive in our true state?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21997452


well said
Indysmindy (OP)

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12/18/2012 02:25 AM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
The odds that we aren't a simulation are so small that it's nearly impossible we're anything else.

On the good side, we're still whoever and whatever, we were yesterday.

It does not make us less than we were, we will just know more about it when we figure it out for certain.

I think most people will respond with simple denial of the idea, rationalizing the information and data away, so it won't be a huge problem. It seems like it should be world shaking news, but... Honestly? No.

It will mean that religion is almost certainly false however, at least those with an afterlife and all that.

Why would that be programed in?

That's fine, if it's the case then we merely need to turn out attention to ensuring we don't die. Find the holes in the system and exploit them, and eventually learn to escape the box we're in and explore what exists beyond. Hard to do!

But it's something to dream about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 536850


You mean become smarter then our computer programmer n escape n take over ?
**The first step to salvation is to realize that we are all sinners:
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
TheMainFrame

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12/18/2012 02:44 AM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
You mean become smarter then our computer programmer n escape n take over ?
 Quoting: Indysmindy


cruise
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 02:46 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
The problem with these scientists are they simply don't understand.

We are living in an organic construct.

It is a place of duality, just like 1's and 0's.

Mankind tries to replicated, technologically, what is made in nature already (synthesis of drugs for example).
notinfallible

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12/18/2012 02:47 AM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
I like your avatar!
To be upset over what you don't have, is to waste what you do have...
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 03:20 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
You mean become smarter then our computer programmer n escape n take over ?
 Quoting: Indysmindy


Not with spelling and grammar like that, you stupid piece of shit.
Keomah

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12/18/2012 03:28 AM

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bump
Keomah
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 03:28 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
How will they know if we are or are not in a simulation?

How will we know if the simulation is designed to let us find out one way or another?

Is it possible for the simulation to be programmed to NOT ALLOW us to find out?

What do we do if we find out we ARE in a simulation?
If we find out we ARE in a simulation and we... i dont know.. decide to detonate all the nuclear devices for whatever reason, how will we know that isnt part of the simulation?

If we find out we are NOT in a simulation, how would we know that the simulation if the simulation is programmed to let us think we are not in a simulation?

just a thought.
island of criminals
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12/18/2012 03:31 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
You mean become smarter then our computer programmer n escape n take over ?
 Quoting: Indysmindy


Not with spelling and grammar like that, you stupid piece of shit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16368637


What a sweetheart you are.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 03:42 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
blah blah blah
What useless drivel.
GLP is STUPID tonight.
I'm going to bed.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 03:46 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Some physicists and university researchers say it's possible to test the theory that our entire universe exists inside a computer simulation, like in the 1999 film "The Matrix."

In 2003, University of Oxford philosophy professor Nick Bostrom published a paper, "The Simulation Argument ," which argued that, "we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation." Now, a team at Cornell University says it has come up with a viable method for testing whether we're all just a series of numbers in some ancient civilization's computer game.

Researchers at the University of Washington agree with the testing method , saying it can be done. A similar proposal was put forth by German physicists in November.



More:

[link to news.yahoo.com]





Ok, now we understand !
 Quoting: Indysmindy



And you know what? Cornell University is a total wacked out POS liberal bastion of idiots. The only thing good there is the veterinary school and I don't even know if that's still good. If you look at the stuff they've come up with in the last 10 years - just the last ten years - it is the most useless bunch of poppycock. Somebody ought to check the student suicide rate there too, cuz last I knew they were covering THAT up. The city itself is a little multicultural hellhole. NEVER go there, it's like a dangerous Star Wars bar.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 03:47 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
well, i think "simulation" is an unfortunate term in this case.

rather, the Universe is a computer!
one single giant computer, and everything is interconnected
and that is what makes it all work so magnificently, as it does.

and, "God", you say? nope the Universe and everything
in it is all mere phenomenae. and it is not necessary for
Man to invent a "God" to account for it all.

walla
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 03:51 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
blah blah blah
What useless drivel.
GLP is STUPID tonight.
I'm going to bed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29655041


stupid is retard speak for too hard/scary to think about.
Mulchyerfye
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12/18/2012 03:52 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Real question is, are we in this simulation by choice, a choice we made before partaking, or were we tricked and this simulation is meant to keep un inactive in our true state?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21997452
DING DING DING DING give this guy a kewpie doll
Simulation_Theorist

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12/18/2012 04:06 AM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Yes OP, now we understand.

Despite being utterly unable to even begin thinking about how to consider what real even means, the everyday average rational person would probably assign this to the sovereign realm of unemployable philosophy majors or under the Whatever, Who Cares? or Oh, That’s Interesting I Gotta Go Now! categories. Okay fine, but on the other side of the intellectual coin, vis-à-vis recent technological advancement, of late it’s actually being seriously considered by serious people using big words they’ve learned at endless college whilst collecting letters after their names and doin’ research and writin’ and gettin’ association memberships and such.

So… why now?

Well, basically, it’s getting hard to ignore.
It’s not a new topic, it’s been hammered by philosophy and religion since like, thought happened. But now it’s getting some actual real science to stir things up. And it’s complicated, occasionally obtuse stuff — theories are spread out across various disciplines, and no one’s really keeping a decent flowchart.

So, what follows is an effort to encapsulate these ideas, and that’s daunting — it’s incredibly difficult to focus on writing when you’re wondering if you really have fingers or eyes. Along with links to some articles with links to some papers, what follows is Anthrobotic’s CliffsNotes on the intersection of physics, computer science, probability, and evidence for/against reality being real (and how that all brings us back to well, God).
You know, light fare.

First — Maybe we know how the universe works: Fantastically simplified, as our understanding deepens, it appears more and more the case that, in a manner of speaking, the universe sort of “computes” itself based on the principles of quantum mechanics. Right now, humanity’s fastest and sexiest supercomputers can simulate only extremely tiny fractions of the natural universe as we understand it (contrasted to the macro-scale inferential Bolshoi Simulation). But of course we all know the brute power of our computational technology is increasing dramatically like every few seconds, and even awesomer, we are learning how to build quantum computers, machines that calculate based on the underlying principles of existence in our universe — this could thrust the game into superdrive. So, given ever-accelerating computing power, and given than we can already simulate tiny fractions of the universe, you logically have to consider the possibility: If the universe works in a way we can exactly simulate, and we give it a shot, then relatively speaking what we make ceases to be a simulation, i.e., we’ve effectively created a new reality, a new universe (ummm… God?). So, the question is how do we know that we haven’t already done that? Or, otherwise stated: what if our eventual ability to create perfect reality simulations with computers is itself a simulation being created by a computer? Well, we can’t answer this — we can’t know. Unless…
[New Scientist’s Special Reality Issue]
[link to www.newscientist.com]

Second — Maybe we see it working: The universe seems to be metaphorically “pixelated.” This means that even though it’s a 50 billion trillion gajillion megapixel JPEG, if we juice the zooming-in and drill down farther and farther and farther, we’ll eventually see a bunch of discreet chunks of matter, or quantums, as the kids call them — these are the so-called pixels of the universe. Additionally, a team of lab coats at the University of Bonn think they might have a workable theory describing the underlying lattice, or existential re-bar in the foundation of observable reality (upon which the “pixels” would be arranged). All this implies, in a way, that the universe is both designed and finite (uh-oh, getting closer to the God issue). Even at ferociously complex levels, something finite can be measured and calculated and can, with sufficiently hardcore computers, be simulated very, very well. This guy Rich Terrile, a pretty serious NASA scientist, sites the pixelation thingy and poses a video game analogy: think of any first-person shooter — you cannot immerse your perspective into the entirety of the game, you can only interact with what is in your bubble of perception, and everywhere you go there is an underlying structure to the environment. Kinda sounds like, you know, life — right? So, what if the human brain is really just the greatest virtual reality engine ever conceived, and your character, your life, is merely a program wandering around a massively open game map, playing… well, you?
[Lattice Theory from the U of Bonn]
[link to www.technologyreview.com]

Thirdly — Turns out there’s a reasonable likelihood: While the above discussions on the physical properties of matter and our ability to one day copy & paste the universe are intriguing, it also turns out there’s a much simpler and straightforward issue to consider: there’s this annoyingly simplistic yet valid thought exercise posited by Swedish philosopher/economist/futurist Nick Bostrum, a dude way smarter that most humans. Basically he says we’ve got three options: 1. Civilizations destroy themselves before reaching a level of technological prowess necessary to simulate the universe; 2. Advanced civilizations couldn’t give two shits about simulating our primitive minds; or 3. Reality is a simulation. Sure, a decent probability, but sounds way oversimplified, right?
Well go read it. Doing so might ruin your day, JSYK.

Lastly — Data against is lacking: Any idea how much evidence or objective justification we have for the standard, accepted-without-question notion that reality is like, you know… real, or whatever? None. Zero. Of course the absence of evidence proves nothing, but given that we do have decent theories on how/why simulation theory is feasible, it follows that blithely accepting that reality is not a simulation is an intrinsically more radical position. Why would a thinking being think that? Just because they know it’s true? Believing 100% without question that you are a verifiably physical, corporeal, technology-wielding carbon-based organic primate is a massive leap of completely unjustified faith.
Oh, Jesus. So to speak.

If we really consider simulation theory, we must of course ask: who built the first one? And was it even an original? Is it really just turtles all the way down, Professor Hawking?

Okay, okay — that means it’s God time now
Now let’s see, what’s that other thing in human life that, based on a wild leap of faith, gets an equally monumental evidentiary pass? Well, proving or disproving the existence of god is effectively the same quandary posed by simulation theory, but with one caveat: we actually do have some decent scientific observations and theories and probabilities supporting simulation theory. That whole God phenomenon is pretty much hearsay, anecdotal at best. However, very interestingly, rather than negating it, simulation theory actually represents a kind of back-door validation of creationism. 
Here's the simple logic:
If humans can simulate a universe, humans are it’s creator.
Accept the fact that linear time is a construct.
The process repeats infinitely.
We’ll build the next one.
The loop is closed.

God is us.

Heretical speculation on iteration
Even wonder why older polytheistic religions involved the gods just kinda setting guidelines for behavior, and they didn’t necessarily demand the love and complete & total devotion of humans? Maybe those universes were 1st-gen or beta products. You know, like it used to take a team of geeks to run the building-sized ENIAC, the first universe simulations required a whole host of creators who could make some general rules but just couldn’t manage every single little detail.

Now, the newer religions tend to be monotheistic, and god wants you to love him and only him and no one else and dedicate your life to him. But just make sure to follow his rules, and take comfort that your’re right and everyone else is completely hosed and going to hell. The modern versions of god, both omnipotent and omniscient, seem more like super-lonely cosmically powerful cat ladies who will delete your ass if you don’t behave yourself and love them in just the right way. So, the newer universes are probably run as a background app on the iPhone 26, and managed by… individuals. Perhaps individuals of questionable character???
We live in a simulation.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 04:07 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
QCD, the theory of quarks and gluons.

The reason we are here is to find out how we are here. What is the trick? What is the divine mechanism that gives form and substance to all things? Any other questions are waste of fucking time. This is the only worthwhile pursuit in the universe,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29965045


They just have to find the algorithm to matter and mass. As time is only linear to the perceiver (humans) it is quite possible that the fractal generated, when 'applying' part of the algorithm, explodes into reality in an instant. It then is totally feasible for cloned particles, separated by billions of light years, to manifest in an instantaneous moment. .. Replications of the whole. . . You all know the experiment that i refer to.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 04:25 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
And to add to my prevous post. . The only reason that our computer simulations are able to simulate is because we have already discovered how mathmatics can be applied to the creation of fluid thoughtforms and design of objects. We are thinking back to front. The algorithm is originally a thought form.

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