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Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????

 
geminilion
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12/18/2012 04:35 AM

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Wouldn't that be a kick in the ass!
..."The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you choose, what you think, and what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny ... it is the light that guides your way."
Heraclitus
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12/18/2012 04:36 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Some physicists and university researchers say it's possible to test the theory that our entire universe exists inside a computer simulation, like in the 1999 film "The Matrix."

In 2003, University of Oxford philosophy professor Nick Bostrom published a paper, "The Simulation Argument ," which argued that, "we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation." Now, a team at Cornell University says it has come up with a viable method for testing whether we're all just a series of numbers in some ancient civilization's computer game.

Researchers at the University of Washington agree with the testing method , saying it can be done. A similar proposal was put forth by German physicists in November.



More:

[link to news.yahoo.com]





Ok, now we understand !
 Quoting: Indysmindy


bsflagIdol1
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12/18/2012 04:38 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
People watching too much Tron.burnit
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12/18/2012 04:42 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
the entire Universe being one big giant computer
is the only model that can negate the existence of a "God".
HI.Lander

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12/18/2012 04:48 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
the entire Universe being one big giant computer
is the only model that can negate the existence of a "God".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Not necessarily.
"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." -- Marcus Aurelius

Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 04:54 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Some physicists and university researchers say it's possible to test the theory that our entire universe exists inside a computer simulation, like in the 1999 film "The Matrix."

In 2003, University of Oxford philosophy professor Nick Bostrom published a paper, "The Simulation Argument ," which argued that, "we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation." Now, a team at Cornell University says it has come up with a viable method for testing whether we're all just a series of numbers in some ancient civilization's computer game.

Researchers at the University of Washington agree with the testing method , saying it can be done. A similar proposal was put forth by German physicists in November.



More:

[link to news.yahoo.com]





Ok, now we understand !
 Quoting: Indysmindy


It isn't a computer simulation, however it is mathematically fixed. Numbers and Geometry rule the multiverse.
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12/18/2012 04:56 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
the entire Universe being one big giant computer
is the only model that can negate the existence of a "God".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Not necessarily.
 Quoting: HI.Lander


why? do you have a better idea on how to expunge God
from the psyches of the human animal?
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:00 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
In 2003, University of Oxford philosophy professor Nick Bostrom published a paper, "The Simulation Argument ," which argued that, "we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation." Now, a team at Cornell University says it has come up with a viable method for testing whether we're all just a series of numbers in some ancient civilization's computer game.
 Quoting: Indysmindy


And why has this idea come forth at this time and not in the past?

Obviously because now we have computers and computer games, meaning that nobody had the fantasy to imagine this possibility until reality caught up with them.

Why not take it further, then? Might not reality be something entirely different, something nobody has yet the imagination to visualise?
HI.Lander

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12/18/2012 05:08 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
the entire Universe being one big giant computer
is the only model that can negate the existence of a "God".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Not necessarily.
 Quoting: HI.Lander


why? do you have a better idea on how to expunge God
from the psyches of the human animal?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Well... the "creator(s)" of the simulation would be god to us, more or less.

If your talking about the Judeo-Christian concept of god then yes, that would prove to be just an element of the simulation we reside in.

There could be a "realer" (for lack of a better term) reality, one in which the creators of our simulation exist. They could be subject to a god perhaps.

Or not.
"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." -- Marcus Aurelius

Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:10 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Oh please, if that were true they would appear a computer virus and be stopped before they really get started.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:10 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
You mean become smarter then our computer programmer n escape n take over ?
 Quoting: Indysmindy


Not with spelling and grammar like that, you stupid piece of shit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16368637


stop giving australians a bad name. this is why there's so much anti australianism on this site...
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:12 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
this sounds v plausible to me. i often wonder if we were created by some crazy teenage scientist from another dimension or something...

you know in the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy books, the Earth is a giant supercomputer which was created (built) by aliens in order to find out the meaning of 'life, the universe and everything'...

quite plausible to me...
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12/18/2012 05:14 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Yes OP, now we understand.

Despite being utterly unable to even begin thinking about how to consider what real even means, the everyday average rational person would probably assign this to the sovereign realm of unemployable philosophy majors or under the Whatever, Who Cares? or Oh, That’s Interesting I Gotta Go Now! categories. Okay fine, but on the other side of the intellectual coin, vis-à-vis recent technological advancement, of late it’s actually being seriously considered by serious people using big words they’ve learned at endless college whilst collecting letters after their names and doin’ research and writin’ and gettin’ association memberships and such.

So… why now?

Well, basically, it’s getting hard to ignore.
It’s not a new topic, it’s been hammered by philosophy and religion since like, thought happened. But now it’s getting some actual real science to stir things up. And it’s complicated, occasionally obtuse stuff — theories are spread out across various disciplines, and no one’s really keeping a decent flowchart.

So, what follows is an effort to encapsulate these ideas, and that’s daunting — it’s incredibly difficult to focus on writing when you’re wondering if you really have fingers or eyes. Along with links to some articles with links to some papers, what follows is Anthrobotic’s CliffsNotes on the intersection of physics, computer science, probability, and evidence for/against reality being real (and how that all brings us back to well, God).
You know, light fare.

First — Maybe we know how the universe works: Fantastically simplified, as our understanding deepens, it appears more and more the case that, in a manner of speaking, the universe sort of “computes” itself based on the principles of quantum mechanics. Right now, humanity’s fastest and sexiest supercomputers can simulate only extremely tiny fractions of the natural universe as we understand it (contrasted to the macro-scale inferential Bolshoi Simulation). But of course we all know the brute power of our computational technology is increasing dramatically like every few seconds, and even awesomer, we are learning how to build quantum computers, machines that calculate based on the underlying principles of existence in our universe — this could thrust the game into superdrive. So, given ever-accelerating computing power, and given than we can already simulate tiny fractions of the universe, you logically have to consider the possibility: If the universe works in a way we can exactly simulate, and we give it a shot, then relatively speaking what we make ceases to be a simulation, i.e., we’ve effectively created a new reality, a new universe (ummm… God?). So, the question is how do we know that we haven’t already done that? Or, otherwise stated: what if our eventual ability to create perfect reality simulations with computers is itself a simulation being created by a computer? Well, we can’t answer this — we can’t know. Unless…
[New Scientist’s Special Reality Issue]
[link to www.newscientist.com]

Second — Maybe we see it working: The universe seems to be metaphorically “pixelated.” This means that even though it’s a 50 billion trillion gajillion megapixel JPEG, if we juice the zooming-in and drill down farther and farther and farther, we’ll eventually see a bunch of discreet chunks of matter, or quantums, as the kids call them — these are the so-called pixels of the universe. Additionally, a team of lab coats at the University of Bonn think they might have a workable theory describing the underlying lattice, or existential re-bar in the foundation of observable reality (upon which the “pixels” would be arranged). All this implies, in a way, that the universe is both designed and finite (uh-oh, getting closer to the God issue). Even at ferociously complex levels, something finite can be measured and calculated and can, with sufficiently hardcore computers, be simulated very, very well. This guy Rich Terrile, a pretty serious NASA scientist, sites the pixelation thingy and poses a video game analogy: think of any first-person shooter — you cannot immerse your perspective into the entirety of the game, you can only interact with what is in your bubble of perception, and everywhere you go there is an underlying structure to the environment. Kinda sounds like, you know, life — right? So, what if the human brain is really just the greatest virtual reality engine ever conceived, and your character, your life, is merely a program wandering around a massively open game map, playing… well, you?
[Lattice Theory from the U of Bonn]
[link to www.technologyreview.com]

Thirdly — Turns out there’s a reasonable likelihood: While the above discussions on the physical properties of matter and our ability to one day copy & paste the universe are intriguing, it also turns out there’s a much simpler and straightforward issue to consider: there’s this annoyingly simplistic yet valid thought exercise posited by Swedish philosopher/economist/futurist Nick Bostrum, a dude way smarter that most humans. Basically he says we’ve got three options: 1. Civilizations destroy themselves before reaching a level of technological prowess necessary to simulate the universe; 2. Advanced civilizations couldn’t give two shits about simulating our primitive minds; or 3. Reality is a simulation. Sure, a decent probability, but sounds way oversimplified, right?
Well go read it. Doing so might ruin your day, JSYK.

Lastly — Data against is lacking: Any idea how much evidence or objective justification we have for the standard, accepted-without-question notion that reality is like, you know… real, or whatever? None. Zero. Of course the absence of evidence proves nothing, but given that we do have decent theories on how/why simulation theory is feasible, it follows that blithely accepting that reality is not a simulation is an intrinsically more radical position. Why would a thinking being think that? Just because they know it’s true? Believing 100% without question that you are a verifiably physical, corporeal, technology-wielding carbon-based organic primate is a massive leap of completely unjustified faith.
Oh, Jesus. So to speak.

If we really consider simulation theory, we must of course ask: who built the first one? And was it even an original? Is it really just turtles all the way down, Professor Hawking?

Okay, okay — that means it’s God time now
Now let’s see, what’s that other thing in human life that, based on a wild leap of faith, gets an equally monumental evidentiary pass? Well, proving or disproving the existence of god is effectively the same quandary posed by simulation theory, but with one caveat: we actually do have some decent scientific observations and theories and probabilities supporting simulation theory. That whole God phenomenon is pretty much hearsay, anecdotal at best. However, very interestingly, rather than negating it, simulation theory actually represents a kind of back-door validation of creationism. 
Here's the simple logic:
If humans can simulate a universe, humans are it’s creator.
Accept the fact that linear time is a construct.
The process repeats infinitely.
We’ll build the next one.
The loop is closed.

God is us.

Heretical speculation on iteration
Even wonder why older polytheistic religions involved the gods just kinda setting guidelines for behavior, and they didn’t necessarily demand the love and complete & total devotion of humans? Maybe those universes were 1st-gen or beta products. You know, like it used to take a team of geeks to run the building-sized ENIAC, the first universe simulations required a whole host of creators who could make some general rules but just couldn’t manage every single little detail.

Now, the newer religions tend to be monotheistic, and god wants you to love him and only him and no one else and dedicate your life to him. But just make sure to follow his rules, and take comfort that your’re right and everyone else is completely hosed and going to hell. The modern versions of god, both omnipotent and omniscient, seem more like super-lonely cosmically powerful cat ladies who will delete your ass if you don’t behave yourself and love them in just the right way. So, the newer universes are probably run as a background app on the iPhone 26, and managed by… individuals. Perhaps individuals of questionable character???
 Quoting: Simulation_Theorist



Simulation,

Thanks for making the effort with your post. I have been reading a lot lately, trying to understand this stuff. It is complicated for me, but I have grown to be comfortable with it ( even though I don't really understand what "it" is). Anyway, your post helps.
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
the entire Universe being one big giant computer
is the only model that can negate the existence of a "God".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Not necessarily.
 Quoting: HI.Lander


why? do you have a better idea on how to expunge God
from the psyches of the human animal?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Well... the "creator(s)" of the simulation would be god to us, more or less.

If your talking about the Judeo-Christian concept of god then yes, that would prove to be just an element of the simulation we reside in.

There could be a "realer" (for lack of a better term) reality, one in which the creators of our simulation exist. They could be subject to a god perhaps.

Or not.
 Quoting: HI.Lander


well, everything arose out of The Big Bang, and this
whole computer thing and all of the Laws of Physics just
sorta fell together as it all unfolded...

and, The Big Bang arose out of Nothing, so there was
no "creator". it is all mere phenomenae.

capeesh?
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:19 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
and, The Big Bang arose out of Nothing, so there was
no "creator". it is all mere phenomenae.

capeesh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


How can something arise out of nothing? Is that supposed to be science?
HI.Lander

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
...


Not necessarily.
 Quoting: HI.Lander


why? do you have a better idea on how to expunge God
from the psyches of the human animal?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Well... the "creator(s)" of the simulation would be god to us, more or less.

If your talking about the Judeo-Christian concept of god then yes, that would prove to be just an element of the simulation we reside in.

There could be a "realer" (for lack of a better term) reality, one in which the creators of our simulation exist. They could be subject to a god perhaps.

Or not.
 Quoting: HI.Lander


well, everything arose out of The Big Bang, and this
whole computer thing and all of the Laws of Physics just
sorta fell together as it all unfolded...

and, The Big Bang arose out of Nothing, so there was
no "creator". it is all mere phenomenae.

capeesh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


I think you might be hung up on the "creator" thing. Just because there might be a creator of the reality in which we reside does not mean it deserves our worship, respect, or acknowledgement... capeesh?

Last Edited by HI.Lander on 12/18/2012 05:44 AM
"Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." -- Marcus Aurelius

Today I broke my personal record for most consecutive days lived.
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12/18/2012 05:25 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
and, The Big Bang arose out of Nothing, so there was
no "creator". it is all mere phenomenae.

capeesh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


How can something arise out of nothing? Is that supposed to be science?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


There is a book titled "Universe from Nothing" which I have not yet read, but plan to. I am trying to open my mind and understand what our deal really is.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:26 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
and, The Big Bang arose out of Nothing, so there was
no "creator". it is all mere phenomenae.

capeesh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


How can something arise out of nothing? Is that supposed to be science?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


yes. and a wonderous marvel. don't you think?
BOWMAN

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12/18/2012 05:29 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
and, The Big Bang arose out of Nothing, so there was
no "creator". it is all mere phenomenae.

capeesh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


How can something arise out of nothing? Is that supposed to be science?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


There is a book titled "Universe from Nothing" which I have not yet read, but plan to. I am trying to open my mind and understand what our deal really is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30210567


This simple pattern, a fractal orientated around awareness growth, shows that the universe is motivated to bring about the human being to its completeness. The Mayans were carriers of this information, not the originators of it.

mayantempl

Mpyramid


------

Last Edited by halman on 12/18/2012 05:30 AM
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:30 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
and, The Big Bang arose out of Nothing, so there was
no "creator". it is all mere phenomenae.

capeesh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


How can something arise out of nothing? Is that supposed to be science?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


yes. and a wonderous marvel. don't you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Well it sounds more like there actually IS a creator for how else can something arise out of nothing?
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:33 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
well, i think "simulation" is an unfortunate term in this case.

rather, the Universe is a computer!
one single giant computer, and everything is interconnected
and that is what makes it all work so magnificently, as it does.

and, "God", you say? nope the Universe and everything
in it is all mere phenomenae. and it is not necessary for
Man to invent a "God" to account for it all.

walla
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


TAMW you try to make a super deep point, only to look like a complete idiot because you ended your thought with the worst butchering of "voila" in the history of spelling.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:33 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
and, The Big Bang arose out of Nothing, so there was
no "creator". it is all mere phenomenae.

capeesh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


How can something arise out of nothing? Is that supposed to be science?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


yes. and a wonderous marvel. don't you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Well it sounds more like there actually IS a creator for how else can something arise out of nothing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


well, see? there you go falling into the "God trap", just
like humans have been doing for the past 500,000 years.

go ahead.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:34 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
You mean become smarter then our computer programmer n escape n take over ?
 Quoting: Indysmindy


Not with spelling and grammar like that, you stupid piece of shit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16368637


What a sweetheart you are.
 Quoting: island of criminals 22030626
Some very talented dyslexics are: Albert Einstein, Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell, Leonardo da Vinci, Auguste Rodin, Erin Brokovich, Walt Disney, Winston Churchill, Cher, Whoopi Goldberg, Tommy Hilfiger etc.
4Cn

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12/18/2012 05:35 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Just watched the movie "The Thirteenth Floor" again a couple weeks ago.
Amazing movie!

IMDB link: [link to www.imdb.com]
BOWMAN

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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
...


How can something arise out of nothing? Is that supposed to be science?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


yes. and a wonderous marvel. don't you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Well it sounds more like there actually IS a creator for how else can something arise out of nothing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


well, see? there you go falling into the "God trap", just
like humans have been doing for the past 500,000 years.

go ahead.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Today we have better language.

Intelligent universe.

universe

cells


------
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:37 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
...


How can something arise out of nothing? Is that supposed to be science?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


yes. and a wonderous marvel. don't you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Well it sounds more like there actually IS a creator for how else can something arise out of nothing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


well, see? there you go falling into the "God trap", just
like humans have been doing for the past 500,000 years.

go ahead.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


You are the one making a point for a creator or a God because something cannot arise out of nothing unless some force is behind it.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:38 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
Here is proof of the matrix...



5 of the smaller areas:

mimick recent man made development
match in relative shape
match in relative size
match in relative rotation
match in x,y position
match mirror of the 3 pyramids
fire in the middle of the mayan 3 hearthstones

Plug that into your probability calculator...

Peace
BOWMAN

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12/18/2012 05:42 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
 Quoting: BOWMAN


Thread: Hope


------
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 05:42 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
...


yes. and a wonderous marvel. don't you think?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Well it sounds more like there actually IS a creator for how else can something arise out of nothing?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1310161


well, see? there you go falling into the "God trap", just
like humans have been doing for the past 500,000 years.

go ahead.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4365896


Today we have better language.

Intelligent universe.

:universe:

:cells:


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


yes. and one of the major characteristic of Nature is
is a phenomenon called "Intelligence".. and Intelligence
is imbued in all stuff in the universe and so everything
is interconnected, and that is how this thing called a "computer" arose (which controls and directs everything
in the Universe)
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12/18/2012 05:44 AM
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Re: Physicists testing to see if universe is computer simulation ????
agent

I'm monitoring this thread.