To All Atheists and Bible Doubters

Facial piercings draw off brain powah ^^ trololol Okay no, seriously...

Vedas are older than the Bible. They were written down at least 5,000 years ago and prior to that they were passed down in an oral tradition.

The history of the Vedas goes back hundreds of trillions of years, and the future of the creation goes forward another hundred trillion more years.

The Vedas have made more predictions than the Bible and given exact dates.

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 12/19/2012 04:00 PM

poo

So then where did the CHINESE come from? Because they are far older than the bible.

meditate in presence of God.

The book of Genesis which was passed down from the beginning to Moses which he then compiled and put into the Torah after the release of the Hebrew slaves from Egypt is older than everything else even the Vedas. The first part of it was written by Adam himself and later parts by others including Noah.

There was a worldwide flood around 4400 years ago and the only men left was Noah and his sons and their families.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Yes, the Hydroplate Theory is the most reasonable theory that also lines up with the bible that explains the geology that we now have.

Shem a son of Noah eventually spawned the oriental peoples of the east
[link to www.eifiles.cn]

The Vedas have been passed down for 155 trillion years starting with Lord Brahma (Jesus). The Bible only goes back a couple thousand years.

The Bible is not older than the Vedas.

Jesus is not God, but he is the Son of God and he is the creator of the universe. That is what the position of Lord Brahma is.

As far as humans are concerned, he can be considered God and he is one with his father.

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 12/19/2012 08:39 PM

Wasn't Enoch like one of those who shone in the dark?

Want to know the REAL Truth about Jesus?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." - (John 1:1-14 KJV)

Those verse are all about God and how he came down and dwelt among us to save us from sin and ourselves.

Knowledge is not the answer to our peculiar problem, Jesus Christ is the answer. Only through HIM can we truly be saved and reach glory.

That is not in the Vedas because the Vedas were written by men of "knowledge" led astray of God who is their true creator and their only saviour.

P.S. You can't be a BEGOTTEN Son of God and not be God, that is impossible. We however are sons of God by adoption not by birth. Jesus however is the only begotten Son.

Last Edited by Veresanctus on 12/19/2012 10:15 PM

The Vedas were not written by man, they have eternally existed. They are the word of God. The following verses are also by God and also explains his reasoning for descent.


"The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, because you are never envious of Me, I shall impart to you this most confidential knowledge and realization, knowing which you shall be relieved of the miseries of material existence.
This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets. It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion. It is everlasting, and it is joyfully performed.
Those who are not faithful in this devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of enemies. Therefore they return to the path of birth and death in this material world.
By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them.
And yet everything that is created does not rest in Me. Behold My mystic opulence! Although I am the maintainer of all living entities and although I am everywhere, I am not a part of this cosmic manifestation, for My Self is the very source of creation.

Understand that as the mighty wind, blowing everywhere, rests always in the sky, all created beings rest in Me.
At the end of the millennium all material manifestations enter into My nature, and at the beginning of another millennium, by My potency, I create them again.
The whole cosmic order is under Me. Under My will it is automatically manifested again and again, and under My will it is annihilated at the end.
All this work cannot bind Me. I am ever detached from all these material activities, seated as though neutral.
This material nature, which is one of My energies, is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, producing all moving and nonmoving beings. Under its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again.

Fools deride Me when I descend in the human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be.
Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demonic and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated.
Those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible.
Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion.
Others, who engage in sacrifice by the cultivation of knowledge, worship the Supreme Lord as the one without a second, as diverse in many, and in the universal form.

But it is I who am the ritual, I the sacrifice, the offering to the ancestors, the healing herb, the transcendental chant. I am the butter and the fire and the offering.
I am the father of this universe, the mother, the support and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge, the purifier and the syllable Om. I am also the Rig, Sama and the Yajur Vedas.
I am the goal, the sustainer, the master, the witness, the abode, the refuge, and the most dear friend. I am the creation and the annihilation, the basis of everything, the resting place and the eternal seed.

O Arjuna, I give heat, and I withhold and send forth the rain. I am immortality, and I am also death personified. Both spirit and matter are in Me.
Those who study the Vedas and drink the soma juice, seeking the heavenly planets, worship Me indirectly. Purified of sinful reactions, they take birth on the pious, heavenly planet of Indra, where they enjoy godly delights.
When they have thus enjoyed vast heavenly sense pleasure and the results of their pious activities are exhausted, they return to this mortal planet again. Thus those who seek sense enjoyment by adhering to the principles of the three Vedas achieve only repeated birth and death.
But those who always worship Me with exclusive devotion, meditating on My transcendental form — to them I carry what they lack, and I preserve what they have.
Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me, O son of Kuntī, but they do so in a wrong way.

I am the only enjoyer and master of all sacrifices. Therefore, those who do not recognize My true transcendental nature fall down.
Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship the ancestors go to the ancestors; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; and those who worship Me will live with Me.
If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.
Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away, and whatever austerities you perform — do that, O son of Kunti, as an offering to Me.
In this way you will be freed from bondage to work and its auspicious and inauspicious results. With your mind fixed on Me in this principle of renunciation, you will be liberated and come to Me.
I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him.

Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination.
He quickly becomes righteous and attains lasting peace. O son of Kunti;, declare it boldly that My devotee never perishes.
Those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth - vaishas [merchants] and sudras [workers] — can attain the supreme destination.
How much more this is so of the righteous brahamanas, the devotees and the saintly kings. Therefore, having come to this temporary, miserable world, engage in loving service unto Me.
Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, become My devotee, offer obeisances to Me and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me. [BG 9.1-9.34]

These verses came 5,000+ years ago long before the birth of John the disciple of Jesus.

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 12/20/2012 12:59 AM

Wouldn't want to make you angry, so I better be off from here. But was he among those who shone in the dark or not, op? No-ah.

Of course

Can you respond to my post above this one? How God spoke directly to his disciple Arjuna and gave him the truth over 5,000 years ago? Long before John was a disciple of Jesus.

Let me ask you this first, what evidence is there that it's as old as you say? Almost all dating methods are inaccurate.

Op why would Atheists watch that? People who doubt maybe would. Why would an atheist waste more minutes, watching what they believe is crap?

I understand you want to help people you consider deluded and that you think it is a safer bet to try believe than not.

Anything I can get you to watch so that you will believe in Santa? I bet the answer is no. Try and relate the reason why you wouldn't watch a video of Santa with why athiests wouldn't watch that video. I wish you people would try and understand we don't believe, in the same way you do not believe in Goblins. It would frustrate you if I kept trying to convince you Goblins are real, when you KNOW they are not.

At the time of when the Bhagavad-gita was spoken by God in his original form, the kingdom of Hastinapur was very central to the civilization of the Vedas. The whole central history of the Bhagavad-gita revolves around the Kurukshetra War, which was to decide who would rule Hastinapur. The King of Hastinapur was Pandu at the time, and God wanted to establish Pandu's sons the Pandavas as the rulers of the Kingdom because they were the beacons of all auspiciousness and religiousness.

The eldest son of Pandu, named Yuudistiir was eventually crowned the king of Hastinapura after the end of the Kurukshetra war.

There is an unbroken chronology of the rulers of Hastinapura since the time of Yuudistiir. There is a detailed description of year-month-days of each and every king who ruled. By adding the total number of years of the four dynasties from Yudhishthir dynasty to Vikramaditya dynasty, it comes to 3,178 years which is 3141 Kali era or 39 AD, which represents the date when Vikramaditya left this earth planet.

Since 3,178 years prior to that time was being precisely kept, it only makes sense that time has still been kept accurately since then. So since accurate history has been kept up to 39 AD, we can add the time that has passed since then. That ends up at 5151 years since the end of the Kurukshetra War.

The Vedic astrologers have very detailed date-wise journals with all the astrological facts and figures. All vedic astrologers agree that our current era of Kali Yuga began 3102 BC. This is the date when God has left the planet and the new era of reduced religiousness takes over. This is all according to his plan.

The Vedic scholars received the perfect system of Astrology from the Eternal Vedas, which is the word of God. The starting date of our current age Kali Yuga has a precise astrological configuration assigned to it that can be calculated by the best Vedic astrologers. Even modern computer software can verify these configurations. There is a precise chronological listing of the kings who have reigned in India. They have exact start and end days/months/years. The events of the Bhagavad-gita have precise astrological dates assigned to them. The positions of the planets and eclipses were recorded. These can all be calculated and verified.

The calendar system has existed in the Vedas for at least thousands of years, if not millions of years. There is a chronological history that dates back over 1.9 billion years of activity on this planet.

There is no carbon dating techniques required, which I don't believe are accurate due to a number of reasons.

How can there be any doubt?

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 12/20/2012 03:41 PM

accidental double post

Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 12/20/2012 01:47 PM

Twisted to suit what need? You mean where committing the act of adultery wasn't enough so Jesus threw in lust in your heart? If we were going to twist it, I think we would leave all of that out of it.

I would like to know your assessment of the dating techniques used for the Vedas.

Also if almost all dating methods are inaccurate, what is used to date the Bible?

Would appreciate a reply by the OP.

Seems to OP doesn't want to acknowledge what I've put forth infront of him regarding the accurate dating of the Bhagavad-gita and the Vedas.

He's posting in his other thread and he's ignoring this one entirely. I even posted in his other thread to have him come reply to this one and he ignored that post also.

Atheists? I believe in a higher power, but im not brainwashed by stories.

"The time span of the period is uncertain. Philological and linguistic evidence indicates that the Rigveda, the oldest of the Vedas, was composed roughly between 1700 and 1100 BCE, also referred to as the early Vedic period.[1]"
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Now that that's out of the way...

"Rabbinical Judaism calculated a lifespan of Moses corresponding to 1391–1271 BCE;[6] Christian tradition has tended to assume an earlier date.[7]"
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Moses compiled Genesis and that from previous writings passed down to him from Adam etc. so Genesis must be old than Moses.

Also consider this: [link to www.greeklatinaudio.com]

Consider that we were not there so we have to take most everything by faith anyway...

Now watch this video and consider the earth being no more than around 6000 years old



Which (considering what I said above) is more believable, the Bible or the Vedas with regards to creation and God and the future?

Now that's out of the way? You didn't refute any of the evidences put forth in front of you. Specifically how there is an unbroken lineage with exact dates and times of Kings who ruled Hastinapur that goes back to over 5000 years.

All you quoted was when the Vedas were POSSIBLY written down on paper. Even the quote you used said "the time span of the period is UNCERTAIN"[according to modern dating techinques].

As per the traditions stated within the Vedas themselves, they have been passed down by an ORAL TRADITION for thousands of years prior to their writing.

Even more evidence of the Vedas age is the fact that the River Saraswati is a focal point to many of the civilizations in the Vedas, and that the river dried up around 3000BC which means that the Vedic civilizations were at least 5000 years old to have relied on the Saraswati river.

The dating techniques used by linguists are to rob the Vedas of their ancient history.

If we're gonna rely on Wikipedia then lets quote Wikipedia.

"The oral tradition of the Vedas consists of several pathas, "recitations" or ways of chanting the Vedic mantras. Such traditions of Vedic chant are often considered the oldest unbroken oral tradition in existence"

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


Now when Krishna was born

"According to Bhagavata Purana, Krishna was born without a sexual union, but by divine "mental transmission" from the mind of Vasudeva into the womb of Devaki. Based on scriptural details and astrological calculations the date of Krishna's birth, known as Janmashtami,[46] is 18 July 3228 BCE and departed on 3102 BCE. Krishna belonged to the Vrishni clan of Yadavas from Mathura, and was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki, and her husband Vasudeva."

[link to en.wikipedia.org]


Furthermore, Lord Rama was also God himself in another form. Not a different God, but the same God who expanded himself to deliver his people and kill the demons.

Wikipedia
"Rama was born on 9th Day (now celebrated across India as Ram Navmi) in Chaitra Lunar Month in Ayodhya, India when Moon & Jupiter were rising in the east in Cancer sign and four other planets (Sun, Mars, Saturn, Venus) were exalted in their exaltation signs. Using a free Planetarium Software (Planetarium Gold) that uses NASA JPL data files for planetary positions, Pushkar Bhatnagar has been able to establish in his research that the star positions at Rama's birth match the date of "10th Jan 5114BC" around 12:30pm local time; there is no other match for these planetary positions."
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

So Lord Rama was born 5114BC, over 7000 years ago.

For your final question, what am I more likely to believe the Bible or The Vedas?

Definitely the Vedas. They have a more established science, and have brought so many innovations to our civilization. Because of the Vedas we have MATH, because of the Vedas we have ASTROLOGY and ASTRONOMY. Because of the Vedas we have MEDICINE (Ayurveda).

We also have the best idea of a loving God who gives unlimited chances to come to him, and does not banish anyone to an eternity in hell for misusing their 1 life.

A God who has a system where no spiritual activities are forgotten and each life you have gives you unlimited chances to find him with no eternal damnation. We are already suffering by being in this material world, and he doesnt want us to suffer more. He's trying to get us to use our free will to come to him.


Finally, the Vedas have a chronological history that dates back over 155 TRILLION YEARS. This is the opposite of the Bible. Modern science states that the universe is roughly 14 billion years old, but the Vedas state that creation of this Universe goes back over 155 trillion years.

We also have an end date that the Universe will dissolve in another 150+ trillion years.

Here is a chronological time table.

[link to www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org]


I watched your video. Now please watch mine.



Last Edited by SaveTheLivingEntities on 12/21/2012 05:12 PM

Experts can't even agree on when the war was let alone whether the dates you say for the time of each king let alone if it's even reliable.

Out of all that mixture of speculation and opinions do you not realize that the whole of Indian people came from Japheth a son of Noah through Madai?
[link to www.ldolphin.org]

I do not deny any knowledge that the Vedas may have what I do deny is the idea that the Vedas were here before the bible says the world was created let alone trillions of years like you say, which is ridiculous.

ANYWAY, you shall know them by their fruits... Just looking at India and how they live makes you wonder if they have ANY scientific knowledge at all.. You do know the Bible taught the washing of hands and to touch no dead thing right? The Vedas are yet more writings like that of Egypt or Sumer that contain SOME truths but are full of natural man's ideas and ways not the ways of the creator of the universe.
[link to www.chinasmack.com]


Knowing math and having rudimentary knowledge e.g that herbs cure disease are very basic that most people can figure out if they tried. Chanting sounds so that the mind is numb is not the way of knowledge and truth but the way of ignorance and instinct (which by the way can open one up for demonic possession).

I would rather spend my days studying the words of wisdom and life that are in the bible than chanting for hours so I can feel blissful.

Here is an example of the wisdom of the bible...

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." - (Romans 1:16-32 KJV)

Last Edited by Veresanctus on 12/21/2012 05:44 PM