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The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 04:13 PM
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The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 04:17 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Once saved by the Holy Spirit, after your repentance from sin and your petition to God for mercy, the "oil" for the "lamp" to understand the bible turns the light on.
Until then you will never "understand".
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 04:21 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
God, the Word (John 1:1), is superior to and incorruptible by his creation,
whether man, principality, or otherwise.

God says the Word is pure (Prov. 30:5-6).

If God is incapable of preventing man from corrupting his Word, then he is not
God; there is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. (Ps. 14:1)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/17/2012 04:26 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Once saved by the Holy Spirit, after your repentance from sin and your petition to God for mercy, the "oil" for the "lamp" to understand the bible turns the light on.
Until then you will never "understand".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22766929


Meaningless rebuttal. Anyone can make the old "until you've experienced what I've experienced you will never understand my point of view" claim.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 04:31 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it. Jeremiah 5:22

There is your answer, OP.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/17/2012 04:32 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
God, the Word (John 1:1), is superior to and incorruptible by his creation,
whether man, principality, or otherwise.

God says the Word is pure (Prov. 30:5-6).

If God is incapable of preventing man from corrupting his Word, then he is not
God; there is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. (Ps. 14:1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491

If god DOES prevent man, or any other being, from corrupting his word then man does not truly have free will. Free will is one of the cornerstones of your faith is it not? That's always the response given when asked why god allow such and such horrible thing to occur, whether it be satan, natural disasters, or war. Invalidate free will, and your whole religion is invalidated.
Spittin'Cesium

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12/17/2012 04:33 PM

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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Freewill I thought came from eating the Forbidden Fruit?

The knowledge of Good and Evil.

Prior to that we were indulgent in our ignorance.
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/17/2012 04:46 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it. Jeremiah 5:22

There is your answer, OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975

Not sure what this is supposed to prove. The point of this thread is to explain how the integrity of the bible can be maintained without invalidating free will.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 04:47 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it. Jeremiah 5:22

There is your answer, OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975

Not sure what this is supposed to prove. The point of this thread is to explain how the integrity of the bible can be maintained without invalidating free will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


You are free, within the boundaries.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/17/2012 04:48 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it. Jeremiah 5:22

There is your answer, OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975

Not sure what this is supposed to prove. The point of this thread is to explain how the integrity of the bible can be maintained without invalidating free will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


You are free, within the boundaries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


So we are free, to do what god tells us?
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 04:49 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
God, the Word (John 1:1), is superior to and incorruptible by his creation,
whether man, principality, or otherwise.

God says the Word is pure (Prov. 30:5-6).

If God is incapable of preventing man from corrupting his Word, then he is not
God; there is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. (Ps. 14:1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491

If god DOES prevent man, or any other being, from corrupting his word then man does not truly have free will. Free will is one of the cornerstones of your faith is it not? That's always the response given when asked why god allow such and such horrible thing to occur, whether it be satan, natural disasters, or war. Invalidate free will, and your whole religion is invalidated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657

man has free will and can reject, make false translations of, and write lies
about God's Word, but God's Word in the King James Bible, virtually identical
to the Dead Sea Scrolls is eternal and incorruptible

your religion that you will not stand before God who created you and be held
accountable for your actions in this life is invalid

you most certainly will (2 Cor. 5:10)

man's sin is responsible for "such horrible thing to occur"

Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove
thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast
forsaken the Lord thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord God
of hosts. (Jer. 2:19)
Spittin'Cesium

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United Kingdom
12/17/2012 04:49 PM

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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Freewill I thought came from eating the Forbidden Fruit?

The knowledge of Good and Evil.

Prior to that we were indulgent in our ignorance.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Is the Above ^ ^ correct OP?
The thing that hath been,
is That which shall be;
and that which is done is that which shall be done:and there is no new thing under the Sun.
Ecclesiastes 9:1
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 04:52 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it. Jeremiah 5:22

There is your answer, OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975

Not sure what this is supposed to prove. The point of this thread is to explain how the integrity of the bible can be maintained without invalidating free will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


You are free, within the boundaries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


So we are free, to do what god tells us?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


No, you are free within his natural laws, e.g.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/17/2012 04:54 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Freewill I thought came from eating the Forbidden Fruit?

The knowledge of Good and Evil.

Prior to that we were indulgent in our ignorance.
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


Is the Above ^ ^ correct OP?
 Quoting: Spittin'Cesium


I don't know, my take is that it is because of free will that adam and eve were allowed to eat the forbidden fruit. The knowledge of good and evil is a different matter, IMO.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 04:54 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Arguing with bible-tards is a waste of time, OP.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/17/2012 05:02 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
God, the Word (John 1:1), is superior to and incorruptible by his creation,
whether man, principality, or otherwise.

God says the Word is pure (Prov. 30:5-6).

If God is incapable of preventing man from corrupting his Word, then he is not
God; there is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. (Ps. 14:1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491

If god DOES prevent man, or any other being, from corrupting his word then man does not truly have free will. Free will is one of the cornerstones of your faith is it not? That's always the response given when asked why god allow such and such horrible thing to occur, whether it be satan, natural disasters, or war. Invalidate free will, and your whole religion is invalidated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657

man has free will and can reject, make false translations of, and write lies
about God's Word, but God's Word in the King James Bible, virtually identical
to the Dead Sea Scrolls is eternal and incorruptible

your religion that you will not stand before God who created you and be held
accountable for your actions in this life is invalid
you most certainly will (2 Cor. 5:10)

man's sin is responsible for "such horrible thing to occur"

Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove
thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast
forsaken the Lord thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord God
of hosts. (Jer. 2:19)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491


My religion, LOL. You don't know what my religion is, or whether or not I have one. This is pointless.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 05:09 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
God, the Word (John 1:1), is superior to and incorruptible by his creation,
whether man, principality, or otherwise.

God says the Word is pure (Prov. 30:5-6).

If God is incapable of preventing man from corrupting his Word, then he is not
God; there is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. (Ps. 14:1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491

If god DOES prevent man, or any other being, from corrupting his word then man does not truly have free will. Free will is one of the cornerstones of your faith is it not? That's always the response given when asked why god allow such and such horrible thing to occur, whether it be satan, natural disasters, or war. Invalidate free will, and your whole religion is invalidated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657

man has free will and can reject, make false translations of, and write lies
about God's Word, but God's Word in the King James Bible, virtually identical
to the Dead Sea Scrolls is eternal and incorruptible

your religion that you will not stand before God who created you and be held
accountable for your actions in this life is invalid
you most certainly will (2 Cor. 5:10)

man's sin is responsible for "such horrible thing to occur"

Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove
thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast
forsaken the Lord thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord God
of hosts. (Jer. 2:19)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491


My religion, LOL. You don't know what my religion is, or whether or not I have one. This is pointless.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest
his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:20)

Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen (Isa. 47:3)
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 05:27 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
...

If god DOES prevent man, or any other being, from corrupting his word then man does not truly have free will. Free will is one of the cornerstones of your faith is it not? That's always the response given when asked why god allow such and such horrible thing to occur, whether it be satan, natural disasters, or war. Invalidate free will, and your whole religion is invalidated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657

man has free will and can reject, make false translations of, and write lies
about God's Word, but God's Word in the King James Bible, virtually identical
to the Dead Sea Scrolls is eternal and incorruptible

your religion that you will not stand before God who created you and be held
accountable for your actions in this life is invalid
you most certainly will (2 Cor. 5:10)

man's sin is responsible for "such horrible thing to occur"

Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove
thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast
forsaken the Lord thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord God
of hosts. (Jer. 2:19)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491


My religion, LOL. You don't know what my religion is, or whether or not I have one. This is pointless.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest
his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:20)

Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen (Isa. 47:3)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491

You're kind of a grim dude aren't you? I'm not sensing a lot of love, joy, and light coming through your words. Are you sure you picked the right god?
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 05:34 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Once saved by the Holy Spirit, after your repentance from sin and your petition to God for mercy, the "oil" for the "lamp" to understand the bible turns the light on.
Until then you will never "understand".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22766929


Meaningless rebuttal. Anyone can make the old "until you've experienced what I've experienced you will never understand my point of view" claim.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


So you say it is "meaningless", but in a way it is the very definition of "meaning" to begin with.

All that "exists" to us is a personal point of view, or experience, so who's to say whether one view / perception / experience is any more or less valid from another?

Ah, the plight of existence... :)
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 05:41 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Once saved by the Holy Spirit, after your repentance from sin and your petition to God for mercy, the "oil" for the "lamp" to understand the bible turns the light on.
Until then you will never "understand".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22766929


Meaningless rebuttal. Anyone can make the old "until you've experienced what I've experienced you will never understand my point of view" claim.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


So you say it is "meaningless", but in a way it is the very definition of "meaning" to begin with.

All that "exists" to us is a personal point of view, or experience, so who's to say whether one view / perception / experience is any more or less valid from another?

Ah, the plight of existence... :)
 Quoting: AkashicRecord

Well, I agree with you, strange that you should make these remarks in defense of christians though. Given their proclivity for threatening eternal damnation on anyone who does not believe as they do.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 07:27 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
...

man has free will and can reject, make false translations of, and write lies
about God's Word, but God's Word in the King James Bible, virtually identical
to the Dead Sea Scrolls is eternal and incorruptible

your religion that you will not stand before God who created you and be held
accountable for your actions in this life is invalid
you most certainly will (2 Cor. 5:10)

man's sin is responsible for "such horrible thing to occur"

Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove
thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast
forsaken the Lord thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord God
of hosts. (Jer. 2:19)

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491


My religion, LOL. You don't know what my religion is, or whether or not I have one. This is pointless.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest
his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:20)

Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen (Isa. 47:3)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491

You're kind of a grim dude aren't you? I'm not sensing a lot of love, joy, and light coming through your words. Are you sure you picked the right god?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3168735

no doubt jeffrey dahmer felt the same way about the cops as you feel about God

God's truth makes the wicked rightly ashamed

And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou
Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? (Matt. 8:29)
SoulWinner

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12/17/2012 07:38 PM

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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
...


Once saved by the Holy Spirit, after your repentance from sin and your petition to God for mercy, the "oil" for the "lamp" to understand the bible turns the light on.
Until then you will never "understand".
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22766929


Meaningless rebuttal. Anyone can make the old "until you've experienced what I've experienced you will never understand my point of view" claim.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


So you say it is "meaningless", but in a way it is the very definition of "meaning" to begin with.

All that "exists" to us is a personal point of view, or experience, so who's to say whether one view / perception / experience is any more or less valid from another?

Ah, the plight of existence... :)
 Quoting: AkashicRecord

Well, I agree with you, strange that you should make these remarks in defense of christians though. Given their proclivity for threatening eternal damnation on anyone who does not believe as they do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3168735


Interesting. I hear this accusation often from atheists and other non-Christians. Have any examples in this thread or others? In my experience, the condemnation and accusations are from non-Christians and, often, self-proclaimed atheists. The hypocrisy is ironic.
Loving souls, starving trolls
SoulWinner

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12/17/2012 07:50 PM

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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Let's imagine we discover Bible texts thousands of years old. Then let's further imagine that those texts explicitly agree with every last detail of today's versions, allowing for a typo or minor word change. Could we then conclude that today's versions are not corrupted, at least since the inception of the newly discovered versions?
Loving souls, starving trolls
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 07:51 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Ever hear of the 10 commandments? Did you know our common law system comes from the Old Testament?
1/7B
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12/17/2012 08:03 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
My understanding is free will was given first- ie. the ability to 'choose'. Knowledge of good and evil were, and are a result of the consequences of choices made, so-
Man chooses.
God facilitates (and does not/ will not interfere).
Even 'divine intervention' is man on some level choosing to ask/ have some 'greater power' intercede on his behalf.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 08:16 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Ever hear of the 10 commandments? Did you know our common law system comes from the Old Testament?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2183540


The old testament also says to stone gays and disobedient children.

Also mentions the unprovable Moses story where he split the red sea and survived for 40 years in a desert....
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 11:39 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
you have freedom to choose what you want to do. You don't necessarily have the power to carry out what you want to do.
Anonymous Coward
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12/17/2012 11:51 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
.

Free will exists only in your imagination.

Like all other creatures, we are programmed by our genetic code.


.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 12:40 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
.

Free will exists only in your imagination.

Like all other creatures, we are programmed by our genetic code.


.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18850150


all evolved from natural selection of beneficial mutations, I suppose? that doesn't seem to make sense, when humans are often, for instance, terrible parents, and animals parent instinctually and seem to have little choice but to do it right.
DanG
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12/18/2012 12:47 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
"religion" = Mind Control

That.Fucking.Simple.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 12:56 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
"religion" = Mind Control

That.Fucking.Simple.
 Quoting: DanG 22108338


so maybe anything that is mind control is a religion? I don't see too much going on that isn't an attempt at mind control.

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