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The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 01:02 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Arguing with bible-tards is a waste of time, OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20517650


bump
5a
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 01:17 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Arguing with bible-tards is a waste of time, OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20517650


bump
5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 2143478


Most specially so since any truth from the bible [or any truth] will get your thread forum-slidded real bad. Not so much with falseness that purports to be from the bible.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 01:21 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
you have freedom to choose what you want to do. You don't necessarily have the power to carry out what you want to do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7064945


just in case OP is still around and actually wanted someone to answer = [2 rather big ifs.]
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 01:22 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it. Jeremiah 5:22

There is your answer, OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975

Not sure what this is supposed to prove. The point of this thread is to explain how the integrity of the bible can be maintained without invalidating free will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


You are free, within the boundaries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


So we are free, to do what god tells us?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Yeah..cause if we dont he going to burn us alive forever..NO pressure..really..or coercion.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 01:26 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
...

Not sure what this is supposed to prove. The point of this thread is to explain how the integrity of the bible can be maintained without invalidating free will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


You are free, within the boundaries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


So we are free, to do what god tells us?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Yeah..cause if we dont he going to burn us alive forever..NO pressure..really..or coercion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16465717


^one of the most enduring false representations of what the bible actually says. tedious in the extreme to read a million times a day on this forum.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 01:28 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
...


You are free, within the boundaries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


So we are free, to do what god tells us?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Yeah..cause if we dont he going to burn us alive forever..NO pressure..really..or coercion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 16465717


^one of the most enduring false representations of what the bible actually says. tedious in the extreme to read a million times a day on this forum.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7064945


I know..and I dont swallow it for a second.

But I cant help but be sarcastic about it..its WAY to tempting NOT to be.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 01:49 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
This is a misunderstanding of sovereignty.

There is no free will.

The genesis story alone shows that God plans all things.

God created evil and uses all things for his purposes.

This is seen in several examples. Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh, but God sent a fish and Jonah went to Nineveh.

Moses killed a man in Egypt, that man was destined to be there, and without his death Moses would have not met God at the burning bush.

No failure in the garden, no Jesus on the cross, no heaven awaiting us.

You see what I mean? Also see Romans 9 below:

"10 Not only that, but also Rebecca conceived children with one man, our ancestor Isaac. 11 When they hadn’t been born yet and when they hadn’t yet done anything good or bad, it was shown that God’s purpose would continue because it was based on his choice. 12 It wasn’t because of what was done but because of God’s call. This was said to her: The older child will be a slave to the younger one.[c] 13 As it is written, I loved Jacob, but I hated Esau.[d]

14 So what are we going to say? Isn’t this unfair on God’s part? Absolutely not! 15 He says to Moses, I’ll have mercy on whomever I choose to have mercy, and I’ll show compassion to whomever I choose to show compassion.[e] 16 So then, it doesn’t depend on a person’s desire or effort. It depends entirely on God, who shows mercy. 17 Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have put you in this position for this very thing: so I can show my power in you and so that my name can be spread through the entire earth.[f] 18 So then, God has mercy on whomever he wants to, but he makes resistant whomever he wants to.

19 So you are going to say to me, “Then why does he still blame people? Who has ever resisted his will?” 20 You are only a human being. Who do you think you are to talk back to God? Does the clay say to the potter, “Why did you make me like this?”[g] 21 Doesn’t the potter have the power over the clay to make one pot for special purposes and another for garbage from the same lump of clay? 22 What if God very patiently puts up with pots made for wrath that were designed for destruction, because he wanted to show his wrath and to make his power known? 23 What if he did this to make the wealth of his glory known toward pots made for mercy, which he prepared in advance for glory? 24 We are the ones God has called."






Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 01:54 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
if god is a super intelligent multi dimensional being that knows everything and he created me then he knew exactly how i was gonna turn out so its on him, not me.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 02:39 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
God, the Word (John 1:1), is superior to and incorruptible by his creation,
whether man, principality, or otherwise.

God says the Word is pure (Prov. 30:5-6).

If God is incapable of preventing man from corrupting his Word, then he is not
God; there is no God.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. (Ps. 14:1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 7254491

If god DOES prevent man, or any other being, from corrupting his word then man does not truly have free will. Free will is one of the cornerstones of your faith is it not? That's always the response given when asked why god allow such and such horrible thing to occur, whether it be satan, natural disasters, or war. Invalidate free will, and your whole religion is invalidated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Wrong. What is your definition of ‘free will’? Yes, one’s will is ‘free’, subjectively among men and in this world, but just because you use that free will to choose against God does not mean that your will trumps His in any way, shape of form. Your free will leaves you free to worship yourself and live as you choose, but He can and will still use you as He wishes and He has not violated that will, for even when He acts in your life, He has not forced you in any way to worship Him. So, your logic is a fail. God promises only that He will not force you to worship Him, nothing more. That is the only decision that is free to you, other than that, you are ‘clay’ and He can do with you whatever He chooses, for He is the 'Potter'.

Preventing an action does not negate the intent of that action, that intent still remains regardless of what God does or does not do. Just because God prevents a man from doing something did not violate what his heart desired to do, the will is still in tact. Action is not will, it is the result of will. God does not change the hearts of those who did not give their free will to Him, but He will intercede to commit His will in the lives of those who did give their will to Him freely. Infringe upon the will of those who choose for Him and He will act on their behalf. Unbelievers on the other hand have only themselves to depend on.
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12/18/2012 03:15 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
if god is a super intelligent multi dimensional being that knows everything and he created me then he knew exactly how i was gonna turn out so its on him, not me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28896002



We are told the heart of man is wicked. That is how we are all born. We all then have a decision to make. We cant just say we will do whatever we want as a rebel does. God seeks the obedient, not the lawless. It's really no difficult thing to obey God's law; do not murder, steal, adultery, have other gods. The one that gets most is the one created by the pope in Rome - Sunday worship. On that one we choose who we follow.
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12/18/2012 03:19 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
You have free will to change your copy of the Bible all you want. There are millions of others to correct the corruption.

In fact the pope in Rome has been changing the word for a long time. They changed the Latin, most would agree. Then after the preserved Greek was translated to English, what was Rome's response? After trying to burn them all, and failed, they began to produce all the corrupt versions. There was a Jesuit on the translation committee of the NIV Bible. The NIV is not actually a whole word for word Bible rather a paraphrase edition. People still use it as if it were The Bible. Even pastors, to support false doctrines.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 03:31 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Man's free will is ever subject to God's. Our freedom is not absolute. It's a soft libertarianism. God uses seemingly pointless, random or evil events to accomplish His purpose. There are no coincidences or accidents in God's economy. And yet He is love.

Free will isn't the "problem" with the Bible. It's "problem" is the problem of evil. Q:How can God not be responsible for the evil in the world? A:Free will.... And yet God uses free will to accomplish His. Why? Bcause He is God.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 03:35 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
You have free will to change your copy of the Bible all you want. There are millions of others to correct the corruption.

In fact the pope in Rome has been changing the word for a long time. They changed the Latin, most would agree. Then after the preserved Greek was translated to English, what was Rome's response? After trying to burn them all, and failed, they began to produce all the corrupt versions. There was a Jesuit on the translation committee of the NIV Bible. The NIV is not actually a whole word for word Bible rather a paraphrase edition. People still use it as if it were The Bible. Even pastors, to support false doctrines.
 Quoting: - 1331499


For those who are truly in search of God and His truth, their mind's and hearts, with the help of the Holy Spirit, will read and see exactly what God desires them to know and understand about Him, despite any translation discrepancy. This and that version is a weapon of divide and a distraction. Choose a Bible and read it; you will gain exactly what you need to know and WILL understand the gospel of Jesus Christ.


Isaiah 55:8-11

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 04:30 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


You have no relationship with God or Jesus Christ. Therefore you consider it non-sense.

Have you tried?

[link to www.e-sword.net]
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12/18/2012 04:46 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
You have free will to change your copy of the Bible all you want. There are millions of others to correct the corruption.

In fact the pope in Rome has been changing the word for a long time. They changed the Latin, most would agree. Then after the preserved Greek was translated to English, what was Rome's response? After trying to burn them all, and failed, they began to produce all the corrupt versions. There was a Jesuit on the translation committee of the NIV Bible. The NIV is not actually a whole word for word Bible rather a paraphrase edition. People still use it as if it were The Bible. Even pastors, to support false doctrines.
 Quoting: - 1331499


For those who are truly in search of God and His truth, their mind's and hearts, with the help of the Holy Spirit, will read and see exactly what God desires them to know and understand about Him, despite any translation discrepancy. This and that version is a weapon of divide and a distraction. Choose a Bible and read it; you will gain exactly what you need to know and WILL understand the gospel of Jesus Christ.


Isaiah 55:8-11

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3898405



It is You being divisive by ignoring the fact the NIV is not a real Bible. Then when Bible text is shown you will equally reject that not found in the rag you call a 'bible'.
Raymantheheretic

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12/18/2012 06:33 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
You have free will to change your copy of the Bible all you want. There are millions of others to correct the corruption.

In fact the pope in Rome has been changing the word for a long time. They changed the Latin, most would agree. Then after the preserved Greek was translated to English, what was Rome's response? After trying to burn them all, and failed, they began to produce all the corrupt versions. There was a Jesuit on the translation committee of the NIV Bible. The NIV is not actually a whole word for word Bible rather a paraphrase edition. People still use it as if it were The Bible. Even pastors, to support false doctrines.
 Quoting: - 1331499


For those who are truly in search of God and His truth, their mind's and hearts, with the help of the Holy Spirit, will read and see exactly what God desires them to know and understand about Him, despite any translation discrepancy. This and that version is a weapon of divide and a distraction. Choose a Bible and read it; you will gain exactly what you need to know and WILL understand the gospel of Jesus Christ.


Isaiah 55:8-11

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3898405



It is You being divisive by ignoring the fact the NIV is not a real Bible. Then when Bible text is shown you will equally reject that not found in the rag you call a 'bible'.
 Quoting: - 1331499

No question about it, this is a case of the dirty old pot calling the shiny copper kettle black.

"For those who are truly in search of God and His truth, their mind's and hearts, with the help of the Holy Spirit, will read and see exactly what God desires them to know and understand about Him, despite any translation discrepancy."

This is exactly right and I can hardly believe anyone that thinks they study from their own 'correct' version should say otherwise. So it goes...

While I agree in principle with the OP's opening statement all versions of the Bible are there to do the job intended; offer profound truths to live by as well as enough rope for the self righteous to ultimately hang themselves while seeking to do God's work for Him.

We will never be at peace until we quit treating the written words of men as the literal word of God. To my mind that is the final unveiling.

I just found out recently the literal meaning of apocalypse is actually an unveiling, or revealing.

Interesting- yes?
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 07:17 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
God saw the end from before the begining and said it was good
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 07:26 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
.

Free will exists only in your imagination.

Like all other creatures, we are programmed by our genetic code.


.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18850150

Darwintards are just as tedious as religitards.
"DNA dictates my every action" vs "God (or Satan) dictates my every action.
Ever considered the possibility that you both might be cyborgs?
Not in your programming I guess.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 07:29 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
You are going to Hell for doubting God and His Word.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 07:32 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


You watched the Matrix trilogy didn't you?

Because I can tell that's where you got this little epiphany of yours.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 08:25 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
I made the sand a boundary for the sea, an everlasting barrier it cannot cross. The waves may roll, but they cannot prevail; they may roar, but they cannot cross it. Jeremiah 5:22

There is your answer, OP.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975

Not sure what this is supposed to prove. The point of this thread is to explain how the integrity of the bible can be maintained without invalidating free will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


You are free, within the boundaries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


i.e. within your cage
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/18/2012 09:38 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Wow, I left this thread yesterday with only 19 responses, I come back and there are over 50. I'm not even going to try to respond point by point to all the idiocy, that would be a waste of time. I knew this yesteday when I started this thread, I was just bored and looking to kill some time. The bottom line is this, I don't really give a shit what it is says in your idiotic book about this matter. You morons can't even agree amongst yourselves about which is the proper interpretation of said book, or which is the correct verson of it, so why should I or anyone else take you seriously? The bible was written by men, not god. Sorry to break it to you, but any individual with half a brain can see this very clearly. Whether most of you are just trolling, or whether you all actually believe this idiotic bible bullshit I'm not sure. Either way I ask that you please do mankind a favor and stop with the sanctimonious and superstitious fear mongering, it's not helping anyone.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 11:57 AM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
"religion" = Mind Control

That.Fucking.Simple.
 Quoting: DanG 22108338

you are under the mind control of your own mind

your religion that you are a living god is false

you did not create yourself or the universe, God (John 1:1) did

only Christ can free you from your mind control
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 12:02 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Wow, I left this thread yesterday with only 19 responses, I come back and there are over 50. I'm not even going to try to respond point by point to all the idiocy, that would be a waste of time. I knew this yesteday when I started this thread, I was just bored and looking to kill some time. The bottom line is this, I don't really give a shit what it is says in your idiotic book about this matter. You morons can't even agree amongst yourselves about which is the proper interpretation of said book, or which is the correct verson of it, so why should I or anyone else take you seriously? The bible was written by men, not god. Sorry to break it to you, but any individual with half a brain can see this very clearly. Whether most of you are just trolling, or whether you all actually believe this idiotic bible bullshit I'm not sure. Either way I ask that you please do mankind a favor and stop with the sanctimonious and superstitious fear mongering, it's not helping anyone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657

OP, all will be held accountable by Christ, man's Creator, for their deeds done in this life (2 Cor. 5:10).

There is a judgment coming whether you like it or not. The wicked of course don't like it one bit.

No amount of lying and crying will change the truth (John 14:6).
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 01:01 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Either way I ask that you please do mankind a favor and stop with the sanctimonious and superstitious fear mongering, it's not helping anyone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Hahaha, this from a guy on a forum who's main intent is to promote fear mongering. The whole world is about it. Have you looked out your window today? Why don't you give us all a break and get over the fact that you are in the minority club of atheism in a world where seeking God is its sole purpose. Fact is, you are the strange one!!!
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 02:59 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
Either way I ask that you please do mankind a favor and stop with the sanctimonious and superstitious fear mongering, it's not helping anyone.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657


Hahaha, this from a guy on a forum who's main intent is to promote fear mongering. The whole world is about it. Have you looked out your window today? Why don't you give us all a break and get over the fact that you are in the minority club of atheism in a world where seeking God is its sole purpose. Fact is, you are the strange one!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30233418


Well shoot pawtna, I looked through the entire thread and at no time did the OP claim to be an atheist.
Anonymous Coward
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12/18/2012 04:27 PM
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Re: The problem with the bible, or any other religious text, is free will.
This is a misunderstanding of sovereignty.

There is no free will.

The genesis story alone shows that God plans all things.

God created evil and uses all things for his purposes.

This is seen in several examples. Jonah didn't want to go to Nineveh, but God sent a fish and Jonah went to Nineveh.

Moses killed a man in Egypt, that man was destined to be there, and without his death Moses would have not met God at the burning bush.

No failure in the garden, no Jesus on the cross, no heaven awaiting us.

You see what I mean? Also see Romans 9 below:

"10 Not only that, but also Rebecca conceived children with one man, our ancestor Isaac. 11 When they hadn’t been born yet and when they hadn’t yet done anything good or bad, it was shown that God’s purpose would continue because it was based on his choice. 12 It wasn’t because of what was done but because of God’s call. This was said to her: The older child will be a slave to the younger one.[c] 13 As it is written, I loved Jacob, but I hated Esau.[d]

14 So what are we going to say? Isn’t this unfair on God’s part? Absolutely not! 15 He says to Moses, I’ll have mercy on whomever I choose to have mercy, and I’ll show compassion to whomever I choose to show compassion.[e] 16 So then, it doesn’t depend on a person’s desire or effort. It depends entirely on God, who shows mercy. 17 Scripture says to Pharaoh, I have put you in this position for this very thing: so I can show my power in you and so that my name can be spread through the entire earth.[f] 18 So then, God has mercy on whomever he wants to, but he makes resistant whomever he wants to.

19 So you are going to say to me, “Then why does he still blame people? Who has ever resisted his will?” 20 You are only a human being. Who do you think you are to talk back to God? Does the clay say to the potter, “Why did you make me like this?”[g] 21 Doesn’t the potter have the power over the clay to make one pot for special purposes and another for garbage from the same lump of clay? 22 What if God very patiently puts up with pots made for wrath that were designed for destruction, because he wanted to show his wrath and to make his power known? 23 What if he did this to make the wealth of his glory known toward pots made for mercy, which he prepared in advance for glory? 24 We are the ones God has called."






Man has free will, exercising that free will a man, or group of men, could have altered the bible, or made it up all together. Given the nature of the world I think any rational person would agree that this is most likely the case.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 947657

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8407446

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