The events in Revelations have already happened

where did u copy and paste that ????????????????????????

Here...


on this thread

and your point
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As far as I can make out,
not being a prophet, or a visionary, or an illuminated one

the visions in Revelation refer to times close to the time of John writing them, he is warning his people of Caesar worship, and comforting them about the ultimate victory of Christ.
Much of the symbology refers to events of the time, like the abomination and the mark of the beast,
but the final judgement and the second coming of Christ
are still to come, and they are foreshadowed in the book as well.

cool so u think the book of Revelation is talkin about times gone by,tut tut where do i start :) Matthew chapter24 talks of signs to the end,do u not no0tice it tally`s with The Book Of Revelation,let me show u
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Matthew24,v3-4 = 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” = Revelation19:v11 =
Christ on a White Horse

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.
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Matthew24:v9 = 9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. = Revelation 20:v4-6 = The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
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Matthew24:v15 = 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand) =
Revelation13:15-17 = 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
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Matthew24:v21-22 = 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened. = Revelation16:v1-21 = 16 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out the bowls[a] of the wrath of God on the earth.”

First Bowl: Loathsome Sores

2 So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

Second Bowl: The Sea Turns to Blood

3 Then the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living creature in the sea died.

Third Bowl: The Waters Turn to Blood

4 Then the third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters saying:

“You are righteous, O Lord,
The One who is and who was and who is to be,
Because You have judged these things.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
And You have given them blood to drink.
For it is their just due.”
7 And I heard another from the altar saying, “Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgements.”

Fourth Bowl: Men Are Scorched

8 Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and power was given to him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent and give Him glory.

Fifth Bowl: Darkness and Pain

10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain. 11 They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds.

Sixth Bowl: Euphrates Dried Up

12 Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and[f] of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

16 And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken

17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!” 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.
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i could go on and on and on
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You have been deceived by the Roman Whore. Matthew 24 refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD by Roman armies led by prince Titus. You need to read the parallel passages in Mark and Luke. The Abomination that causes desolation is not some future anti-Christ, it's is the Roman army surrounding the city in siege. Read Josephus for the account of the miraculous signs leading up to the siege. Cattle gave birth to lambs, the temple doors flung open, a "sword" star appeared above Jerusalem weeks before it happened and stayed there until it did, armies were heard and seen by the inhabitants of Jerusalem "fighting" in the sky, and numerous other miracles.
Jesus returned during THAT generation to exact judgement on the wicked and untoward people that killed the Son. Jesus entered the temple and cast out the money changers exclaiming they had turned HIS FATHERS HOUSE into a den of thieves, then right before his death proclaims YOUR HOUSE is left DESOLATE. God left that self righteous religion and returned exactly 40 years later to wipe it out for good, just like he promised to do. The temple will never be rebuilt because believers are the temple of God-those that worship him in spirit and in truth.
When Jesus was on the cross he asked God to forgive them, so God withheld his wrath for ONE generation (40 years to the day) then destroyed Jerusalem on the Passover in 70AD. Our God is amazing and exceedingly righteous. He can, does and will judge his creation with perfect judgement. He is coming back ONCE more to judge the quick and the dead, no rapture, no 7 years, ONE return to set all things right. Rome wants you to believe futurism because 1.it takes the 70th week of Daniel from the LORD Jesus Christ and gives it to some fabricated person in the future and 2. It makes it really hard to see that the Roman Catholic church is the Beast, the Harlot, the mother of abomination and the son of perdition. There is a book called "the great prophecies of the Bible" by Ralph Woodrow, please read it. I used to be deceived as well, but God will open your eyes if you allow him to.
Godbless!

The Church wasn't given the sword that was to be used against evil, that was given to the leaders of the Nations, Rome being the first one. The first act they accomplished was the dismantlement of the Temple, a place no longer needing sacrifices after the cross. Roman 13 makes them the 'servants of God'. The Church was only to publish the Bible and take it to all parts of the earth.


Consumers only buy things, it is the Merchants that buy and sell so today that would make business owners the ones under danger rather than the ones they sell to.


That has nothing to do with any prophecy.


The counting is based on the statue in Da:2, Neb is the head of gold making him the first king (Da:4), followed by two kings in the silver (Da:5 and 6) and the brass starts with Alex being the 4th king. The verses in Da:8 cover the brass and the little horn is within 4 kings of Alex. The 5th would be the ones that takes over from Greece and the verses describe the 500 year reign of Rome over Jerusalem.

That makes Rome as being the 6th king, the one that is and she was the power in Luke:21:24 that was the first nation to be in 'the time of the Gentiles' and Gentiles (doesn't matter what nation it is) rule until the iron/clay starts. Re:11 picks up the story when there is 42 months left got the Genttiles to rule over Jerusalem. The 5th and 7th trumps cover 42 months when their time is combined, 150 days for the 5th and 1110 days for the 6th. They control the world during that time but Jerusalem is protected by the two witnesses and it is only in the 4 days that they lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem that Satan and the Beast have control of Jerusalem and that is when they will put a throne on holy ground and Satan will claim to be God. Satan is the falling star and that makes him the 7th king and before the two are killed the Beast from the Pit that is released for the first woe (5th trump) is the king that was (before the flood), is not (from the flood until the 5th trump sounds), and will be (for the 6th trump). The Beast is sent to the lake on the same day the two witnesses are resurrected as all 7 vials are poured out in just a few hours after the 2 ascend to cloud height.

Last Edited by MHz on 12/22/2012 11:57 AM

This is what leads up to the destruction in 70AD and the Apostles experienced these event in person.

Lu:21:12-24:
But before all these,
they shall lay their hands on you,
and persecute you,
delivering you up to the synagogues,
and into prisons,
being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
Settle it therefore in your hearts,
not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom,
which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
And ye shall be betrayed both by parents,
and brethren,
and kinsfolks,
and friends;
and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
In your patience possess ye your souls.
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies,
then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains;
and let them which are in the midst of it depart out;
and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
For these be the days of vengeance,
that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child,
and to them that give suck,
in those days!
for there shall be great distress in the land,
and wrath upon this people.
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword,
and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles,
until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

That is not the same events as the one in these verses.


M't:24:4-21:
And Jesus answered and said unto them,
Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name,
saying,
I am Christ;
and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars:
see that ye be not troubled:
for all these things must come to pass,
but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation,
and kingdom against kingdom:
and there shall be famines,
and pestilences,
and earthquakes,
in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted,
and shall kill you:
and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended,
and shall betray one another,
and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise,
and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound,
the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end,
the same shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;
and then shall the end come.
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
And woe unto them that are with child,
and to them that give suck in those days!
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter,
neither on the sabbath day:
For then shall be great tribulation,
such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time,
no,
nor ever shall be.

Daniel 8 and 9 cover the events surrounding the 70AD event, the verse below is Satan claiming to be God based on the fake throne being the image that is built in Re:13 and being the climax in the verse s below.

Da:11:31:
And arms shall stand on his part,
and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength,
and shall take away the daily sacrifice,
and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

2Th:2:4:
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God,
or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God,
shewing himself that he is God.

Yep, I agree the message is personal, addressed to each and every individual on the planet, and if we are to be his followers, we must put love into practise.

His presence here was not to set up governmental systems,
or to overthrow the Roman occupation in his homeland, as many were expecting of him.

That means that we are responsible for our systems, taxes and investments, and should do so with moral imperatives,
not with greed or power hunger.

I beg to differ, why do you think this is from Romans rather than Hebrews?

Ro:13:3:
For rulers are not a terror to good works,
but to the evil.
Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power?
do that which is good,
and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Ro:13:4:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good.
But if thou do that which is evil,
be afraid;
for he beareth not the sword in vain:
for he is the minister of God,
a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Ro:13:5:
Wherefore ye must needs be subject,
not only for wrath,
but also for conscience sake.
Ro:13:6:
For for this cause pay ye tribute also:
for they are God's ministers,
attending continually upon this very thing.
Ro:13:7:
Render therefore to all their dues:
tribute to whom tribute is due;
custom to whom custom;
fear to whom fear;
honour to whom honour.

Paul is writing to the early Christian community in Rome,
and wisely urging them to obey the laws of the land.

Interestin u mention the statue remember the feet with ten toes made of iron and clay,is this not the ten kings that receive a kingdom with the beast for i hour as mentioned in Rev17:12-14,and that is why the statue falls cause the ten toed feet crumble and fall as mentioned in verse 12-14 = 12 “The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful.”
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Paul in d bible now there`s an interestin guy,me and him have a few things in common
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(1) same name
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(2) same belief`s
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(3) a healer
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That's true, that also gets taken to any Nation a Christian is living in, for me that means Canadian laws.


Yes they are the same, so is the 10 that are mentioned in Da:7 and the verses that apply to the 4th beast in that chapter.

The 10 men would also be the ones that are passing gifts back and forth during the 4 days that the two witnesses are dead. They would also be killed before they could worship Satan as he sits on a throne in Jerusalem as they would then qualify for eternity in the lake compared to the 1,000 years in hell that is the full punishment for being in the 2/3 group.

Zec:13:8:
And it shall come to pass,
that in all the land,
saith the LORD,
two parts therein shall be cut off and die;
but the third shall be left therein.

Re:19:21:
And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse,
which sword proceeded out of his mouth:
and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Isa:65:12:
Therefore will I number you to the sword,
and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter:
because when I called, ye did not answer;
when I spake,
ye did not hear;
but did evil before mine eyes,
and did choose that wherein I delighted not.



Not exactly, the 42 months the Beast is given ends on the day the 7th trump sounds and once the two witnesses are at cloud height all 7 vials get poured out on the world (starting at Jerusalem)in just a few hours, after that anybodty destined for life in the 1,000 year reign will be resurrected to join the 1/3 that survive the 7 vials.


Daniel does cover very much about how the iron/clay are destroyed, all 12 books listed after Daniel have prophecies about how that comes about but the time-frame is left out, all events dealing with death and gathering are done on the same afternoon.

Last Edited by MHz on 12/22/2012 08:42 PM

Canadian laws.
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Shouldn't you be healing all the ones in every hospital in the land?

Last Edited by MHz on 12/22/2012 08:44 PM

Yes, I'm sure you could ;)

It is all to easy to link various Bible passages together and claim they make one whole message, no doubt the world is in for some rough times, and one day we will be judged, but
it will be on what is in our hearts and minds, not on whether we have an artificial chip in our body, or use a bankcard or w/e.

Good point,and i have thought of goin into hospitals,and thank you i will go and see the hospital chaplin in my local hospital and offer my services for free
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your hard work u are :) bankcards are ok to have ,better not to have any bankcards,but u won`t go to the lake of fire for having a bankcard but one will go to the lake of fire for receivin 666 mark on right hand of forhead...(forhead if right hand is amputated) lets go back to Rev14,v9-12 =
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
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ps what is "w/e" ????
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How do you heal people Paul?

Laying on of hands, or a form of therapy?

i know tough times are ahead,who wants in our future to be called a torrorist and executed in public by be-heading,a little ex-stream i hear u say,lets go back to Rev20,v4-6 =
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgement was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
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notice that word again "Saints",only the Saints will make it out of the fire to come,and the ONLY way to become a saint in these last yrs is to NOT receive 666 mark on right hand of forhead,with will come in our life times in a cashless society.
you need to wake up and smell d coffee
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yes i lay hands on the person,but i can heal with out touch,i could tell u some healin stories but u wouldn`t believe me,but im use to that :( such is life,but u girl are gonna see the light im gonna make sure of that :),i`m sure in time u also will be prepared to lose ya head :) literally,and u can take that to d bank lol

i healed someone the other day,and when i put my hands on her head,she said "wow my head feels funny,she then asked me if i was an angel" i said no just got the gift of healin" but it did make me chuckle when she asked that,

I'm more likely to believe the healing stories than that some random mark will commit me to hell.

"Revelation may be defined as the communication of some truth by God to a rational creature through means which are beyond the ordinary course of nature."

[link to www.newadvent.org]

Last Edited by #KK# on 12/23/2012 09:07 AM

see i told ya,ya hard work but chill Winstan,when the penny does drop i`m sure it will be a Revelation to you,but as they say Rome wasn`t built in a day
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The mark of the beast already happened, I don't believe it will come in the future.



"The beast from the sea that had received plenitude of power from the dragon, or Satan, is the Roman Empire, or rather, Caesar, its supreme representative. The token of the beast with which its servants are marked is the image of the emperor on the coins of the realm. This seems to be the obvious meaning of the passage, that all business transactions, all buying and selling were impossible to them that had not the mark of the beast (Apocalypse 13:17). Against this interpretation it is objected that the Jews at the time of Christ had no scruple in handling money on which the image of Caesar was stamped (Matthew 22:15-22). But it should be borne in mind that the horror of the Jews for the imperial images was principally due to the policy of Caligula. He confiscated several of their synagogues, changing them into heathen temples by placing his statue in them. He even sought to erect an image of himself in the Temple of Jerusalem."


I know I'm hard work but I can't help it.
Could say the same about you.

i found Jesus on GLP and here are His words on why we should be prepared to die for our faith
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Eternal law demands life be given to be born again for man is dead now in spirit and to be born again in spirit must be willing to die in flesh for what is right and good in faith in their God whom died to save them.

A time is coming were those whom believe in God will be put to death even tortured, those of ye whom seek eternal life must be willing to endure this unto death and will be rewarded with eternal life, for a time comes were the wicked amongst man shall be overtaken in spirit by Devil for he shall rule the nations in flesh and he shall declare war on the Lamb and the believers in his name.

Be ye then strong in spirit and conviction of your faith for ye must not renouce or you do so unto condemnation the adversary even Satan shall seek to turn many against God in his time of rule, those whom try save their lifes shall lose it but those whom lose their lifes for sake of God which is good shall save it. Be ye then willing to die and not be a slave to the beast for surely he shall torment his own.

God died and suffered beyond what you can comprehend for you, if thou can not give you flesh to God the eternal law will not allow God to save you. This is what many will have to face so prepare yourself for that time now by strengthing your faith through spirit, mind and body to endure it.

"The ten horns are commonly explained as the vassal rulers under the supremacy of Rome. They are described as kings (basileis), here to be taken in a wider sense, that they are not real kings, but received power to rule with the beast. Their power, moreover, is but for one hour, signifying its short duration and instability (17:17). The Seer has marked the beast with the number 666. His purpose was that by this number people may know it. He that has understanding, let him count the number of the beast. For it is the number of a man: and his number is six hundred and sixty-six. A human number, i.e. intelligible by the common rules of investigation. We have here an instance of Jewish gematria. Its object is to conceal a name by substituting for it a cipher of equal numerical value to the letters composing it. For a long time interpreters tried to decipher the number 666 by means of the Greek alphabet, e.g. Irenæus, Against Heresies V.33. Their efforts have yielded no satisfactory result. Better success has been obtained by using the Hebrew alphabet. Many scholars have come to the conclusion that Nero is meant. For when the name "Nero Caesar" is spelled with Hebrew letters, it yields the cipher 666."


[link to www.newadvent.org]

cool so your sayin these coins are gonna be "IN" right hand or "IN" forehead..............who`s hard work @(*+*)@,u are half way there thinkin money is to do with mark (there`s hope:)but scripture tells us all will have same 666 mark,also caesar wasn`t first to make money,in uk before coins there was stones with stars on them,that was used to exchange goods