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Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:28 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Nothing scares me more than to live in a world full of grown adults who actually believe in these magical fairytale desert myths. It makes me sick. Humanity has absolutely no chance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


Yep, I agree. It is more sad than frightening to me though. I think people can't face the fact that they die and turn to dust. They cringe at the fact that they don't get to see their dead relatives and friends again after they die. I can understand that they feel the need to cling to these myths BUT...you are correct. To believe in childish fairy tales while you are an adult is a very selfish way to live...

I think it is changing. I hope it is. Many people in their 20s and 30s are starting to see all the holes in these stories. They have not been so indoctrinated in this religion so they can break away much easier.

When you think of religious training as indoctrination and brainwashing, you can understand how this is so hard for so many people to give up. So it is sad, really. I can understand why they WANT to believe but I just wish they could see truth. I wish they could grow up.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:29 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


A direct quote from Jesus:

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Yes, that quote is true. Jesus actually invented the idea of hell. In the OT, death meant death. Death was the grave.

My question is this: "Who are the righteous?" Who are the people Jesus sees as righteous? It wasn't the Pharisees, who followed all the laws. They looked good on the outside, but the inside was filthy.

I remember that Jesus said that MANY people will stand before him on judgment day. He first mentioned people who did MIRACLES in his name. THen he talks about people who drive out demons. And he mentions people who speak prophecy. Do they sound like religious people? I think they do.

Let's face it. If you thought you drove out a demon (like a priest does) in Jesus name, you would be pretty sure you would go to heaven. If you did a miracle (like praying that someone would be healed) you would think you were worthy of heaven. BUT...Jesus tells ALL of these people to get away from him because he never knew them. Jesus sends them ALL to hell.

Then Jesus said it would be easier for prostitutes and sinners to get into heaven than for Pharisees. BUt then Jesus said that OUR righteousness must be greater than that of the Pharisees or we will not see the kingdom of heaven.

A good man stood before Jesus and told him that he followed all the laws and commandments. He had done this since childhood. He wanted to know what else he should do. Jesus told him that he had to SELL everything he owned and give it all to the poor. He was not joking. He told people that the road was narrow and only a few get in. Most people are just walking along that wide road.

So maybe none of us are going to heaven. Maybe only those 144,000 or something like that. Jesus told people to be perfect, as his father was perfect. I guess it is considered perfect to kill everyone who doesn't follow all the laws and commandments exactly, and remain humble, and put God first, and live a destitute life while giving everything to the poor. This is the only way we could ever be more righteous than a Pharisee. So maybe Jesus wasn't telling lies. Maybe only a very few go to heaven, the perfect ones.

What a confusing bag of garbage the Bible is. This is why I am an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


I had an NDE and uncovered veridical information and I saw no Jesus no kingdom of God I did see others though and I felt at peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Do you even know what veridical info means.

If so, provide an example.

In addition, not everyone who has an NDE, even Christians, see Jesus.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:30 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Perhaps the snake in the garden was the good guy, trying to warn us about this sick fuck.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 570175


ohyeah
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:31 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Bowman--2001 is one of my favorite films, if not my favorite...

ever seen the analysis where they show how HAL is really IBM?

every letter in IBM is preceded by HAL...

Kubrick, in addition to being an incredible genius, according to some was always putting subliminals in his films...

to me, the technology is a luciferian trap... eventually chipping us and controlling us--- totally opposite the free will sovereign spirit beings God intended...

tptb have to trick us... and they are worshipping a supernatural element that follows the spiritual laws and knows things not meant for this creation...

lucifer, like HAL, was created as perfect and yet he chose to rebel... Kubrick seems to imply a bigger game going on...

God chose to keep lucifer here to act as a sort of challenge and filter for His creations... the ones that do not learn to glorify Him will be destroyed...

again, the beekeeping metaphor... makes sense... just in terms of energy, you might not want rebellious creations running around your creation... distorted egoic energy is not preserved... it will not be useful to God in eternity...

I did not come to this understanding out of fear--I could care less if there was an eternity or not when I didn't know what was going on...

I came to this from research and life experience... lots and lots of both...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


clappa

That's a great summary AC.

At this point I don't really care so much if I'm good enough to get through some filtering system though, and be accepted into some group that I have no knowledge about whatsoever. I have done the best that I could with what was presented to me and that's what I do feel good about. thumbs

And, I'm just about done with my own sharing and expressiveness, for now anyways. I could always be inspired in the future I suppose but there are more life experiences that I look forward to and seeing that the world didn't end today I can't wait to get started with some "real world" fun as the "cyber world" has, save for the novel bits of information that come up from time to time, has become boring and repetitive.


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN



cool, yo... I try to balance both... beekeeping, btw, does not have to be difficult... check out Michael Bush's website for more on this...


some of my research and some fun and insightful links:

Thread: Shaking Spears Consciousness--that's what's up... :)

:)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29966199
Bahamas
12/21/2012 11:34 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


Yes, that quote is true. Jesus actually invented the idea of hell. In the OT, death meant death. Death was the grave.

My question is this: "Who are the righteous?" Who are the people Jesus sees as righteous? It wasn't the Pharisees, who followed all the laws. They looked good on the outside, but the inside was filthy.

I remember that Jesus said that MANY people will stand before him on judgment day. He first mentioned people who did MIRACLES in his name. THen he talks about people who drive out demons. And he mentions people who speak prophecy. Do they sound like religious people? I think they do.

Let's face it. If you thought you drove out a demon (like a priest does) in Jesus name, you would be pretty sure you would go to heaven. If you did a miracle (like praying that someone would be healed) you would think you were worthy of heaven. BUT...Jesus tells ALL of these people to get away from him because he never knew them. Jesus sends them ALL to hell.

Then Jesus said it would be easier for prostitutes and sinners to get into heaven than for Pharisees. BUt then Jesus said that OUR righteousness must be greater than that of the Pharisees or we will not see the kingdom of heaven.

A good man stood before Jesus and told him that he followed all the laws and commandments. He had done this since childhood. He wanted to know what else he should do. Jesus told him that he had to SELL everything he owned and give it all to the poor. He was not joking. He told people that the road was narrow and only a few get in. Most people are just walking along that wide road.

So maybe none of us are going to heaven. Maybe only those 144,000 or something like that. Jesus told people to be perfect, as his father was perfect. I guess it is considered perfect to kill everyone who doesn't follow all the laws and commandments exactly, and remain humble, and put God first, and live a destitute life while giving everything to the poor. This is the only way we could ever be more righteous than a Pharisee. So maybe Jesus wasn't telling lies. Maybe only a very few go to heaven, the perfect ones.

What a confusing bag of garbage the Bible is. This is why I am an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


I had an NDE and uncovered veridical information and I saw no Jesus no kingdom of God I did see others though and I felt at peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Do you even know what veridical info means.

If so, provide an example.

In addition, not everyone who has an NDE, even Christians, see Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Please don't deny what I had experienced it is very emotional for me

Basically veridical info is info that you could not have possible known basically


Zeus be praised
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 30531093
United States
12/21/2012 11:35 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


I had an NDE and uncovered veridical information and I saw no Jesus no kingdom of God I did see others though and I felt at peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Do you even know what veridical info means.

If so, provide an example.

In addition, not everyone who has an NDE, even Christians, see Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Please don't deny what I had experienced it is very emotional for me

Basically veridical info is info that you could not have possible known basically


Zeus be praised
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Sorry, that's not all it means.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20657814
United States
12/21/2012 11:35 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


That verse is just peachy IF you think that YOU are GOOD. But what is good? Look at the Pharisees. If you would have asked them, they would have told you they were good. They followed each and every one of the OT laws. But Jesus thought they were sons of Satan. Did you ever wonder why?

The answer lies in your own heart...that heart that thinks he/she is good. You are not GOOD. You have deceit in your heart, just like the Pharisees. You think you are better than most everyone alive, just like the Pharisees. You easily see the sin in others but fail to see that big log floating around in your own eye, just like the Pharisees. You have a huge ego and too much pride, just like the Pharisees. You probably look so righteous, but God will see this as self-righteousness, just like the Pharisees. They looked good on the outside but the inside was filthy. They judged others as unworthy but thought they were fit for the kingdom. I think you could be just like them.

You seem so sure you are good and righteous and perfect. Think again. Anyone who thinks that his fellow man is worthy of being tormented forever, IS NOT A GOOD PERSON. That is the end of the story. If you judge a person to be worthy of forever torment, Jesus would tell you that this judgment will be turned back upon you. I think Jesus was all about love but you are siding with evil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


A direct quote from Jesus:

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Yes, that quote is true. Jesus actually invented the idea of hell. In the OT, death meant death. Death was the grave.

My question is this: "Who are the righteous?" Who are the people Jesus sees as righteous? It wasn't the Pharisees, who followed all the laws. They looked good on the outside, but the inside was filthy.

I remember that Jesus said that MANY people will stand before him on judgment day. He first mentioned people who did MIRACLES in his name. THen he talks about people who drive out demons. And he mentions people who speak prophecy. Do they sound like religious people? I think they do.

Let's face it. If you thought you drove out a demon (like a priest does) in Jesus name, you would be pretty sure you would go to heaven. If you did a miracle (like praying that someone would be healed) you would think you were worthy of heaven. BUT...Jesus tells ALL of these people to get away from him because he never knew them. Jesus sends them ALL to hell.

Then Jesus said it would be easier for prostitutes and sinners to get into heaven than for Pharisees. BUt then Jesus said that OUR righteousness must be greater than that of the Pharisees or we will not see the kingdom of heaven.

A good man stood before Jesus and told him that he followed all the laws and commandments. He had done this since childhood. He wanted to know what else he should do. Jesus told him that he had to SELL everything he owned and give it all to the poor. He was not joking. He told people that the road was narrow and only a few get in. Most people are just walking along that wide road.

So maybe none of us are going to heaven. Maybe only those 144,000 or something like that. Jesus told people to be perfect, as his father was perfect. I guess it is considered perfect to kill everyone who doesn't follow all the laws and commandments exactly, and remain humble, and put God first, and live a destitute life while giving everything to the poor. This is the only way we could ever be more righteous than a Pharisee. So maybe Jesus wasn't telling lies. Maybe only a very few go to heaven, the perfect ones.

What a confusing bag of garbage the Bible is. This is why I am an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I don't believe in this kind of story because veridical info could be a lie. In other words, just because someone reports that they saw a shoe on the roof of a building when they floated above it, does not make it TRUE. It could be someone telling a lie, trying to make a quick buck by selling a book or something like that. If someone says they talked to or saw a dead relative during a NDE, they were obviously NOT DEAD.

The brain dies AFTER death. Before that time, powerful chemicals are released during these stressful conditions. The people are dreaming. I dreamed that a field in the back of my house was filled with beautiful horses last night. Was this true? Of course not. But it seemed very real in my dream.

I don't believe every story told to me. I don't believe in those television psychics who talk to dead people. I don't believe the stories of people who remember past lives. I don't believe in those ghost hunting stories you hear about. And I don't believe in the stories of people who have had NDEs. If you think this is veridical information, you are wrong. It could be proved to be nothing but a lie. RIGHT?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:36 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


And you are to follow Him aren´t you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


That's the fact, jack!

Christ is the law now...

new sherif in town, new laws in effect...

that's why it is so important to read the new testament...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


Christ said that He never came to do away with the OTs, but to give them their full meanings.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


this is an argument that can go on for a while...

and one of the reasons I choose to honor the OT as much as possible... to glorify God more...

but Lord's prayer and love for God and each other is the key... IMO

not supposed to do a lot of things... rules rules rules and then you never connect w God... this is the problem Christ rails against the Pharisees for ...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


Christ did not change or dismiss any of the Ten Commandments from the OT. Here are two main things that Christ changed from the teachings of Moses (OT):

1. Moses taught that it was ok to practice 'An eye for an eye' i.e revenge. Christ taught us to forgive, if someone asked to be forgiven.

2. Moses taught that certain foods were forbidden to eat because it would make you unclean, therefore unfit to worship the Lord. Christ taught that no food you put in your body can make you unclean. He said that what makes a person unclean is evil that can come out of their heart and/or mouth.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:36 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Nothing scares me more than to live in a world full of grown adults who actually believe in these magical fairytale desert myths. It makes me sick. Humanity has absolutely no chance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


Yep, I agree. It is more sad than frightening to me though. I think people can't face the fact that they die and turn to dust. They cringe at the fact that they don't get to see their dead relatives and friends again after they die. I can understand that they feel the need to cling to these myths BUT...you are correct. To believe in childish fairy tales while you are an adult is a very selfish way to live...

I think it is changing. I hope it is. Many people in their 20s and 30s are starting to see all the holes in these stories. They have not been so indoctrinated in this religion so they can break away much easier.

When you think of religious training as indoctrination and brainwashing, you can understand how this is so hard for so many people to give up. So it is sad, really. I can understand why they WANT to believe but I just wish they could see truth. I wish they could grow up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


um, nope

I did not care if I turned to dust or not...

in fact I thought it would be nice to just put my body out for bird food somewhere...

facts are facts... you guys obviously have just started researching and have not uncovered the occult influence all around you, creating your bias and controlling your free will...

and the occult know darn well that the supernatural is real as the nose on your face...

as do shamans and other spirit worshippers...

try doing mushrooms for a few weeks... (no don't, just read graham hancock's book: Supernatural)

or listen to the long list of testimonies from former occultists and others:

Thread: Shaking Spears Consciousness--that's what's up... :)

:)
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:40 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
baby
Intergalactic Diplomat

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12/21/2012 11:40 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


That verse is just peachy IF you think that YOU are GOOD. But what is good? Look at the Pharisees. If you would have asked them, they would have told you they were good. They followed each and every one of the OT laws. But Jesus thought they were sons of Satan. Did you ever wonder why?

The answer lies in your own heart...that heart that thinks he/she is good. You are not GOOD. You have deceit in your heart, just like the Pharisees. You think you are better than most everyone alive, just like the Pharisees. You easily see the sin in others but fail to see that big log floating around in your own eye, just like the Pharisees. You have a huge ego and too much pride, just like the Pharisees. You probably look so righteous, but God will see this as self-righteousness, just like the Pharisees. They looked good on the outside but the inside was filthy. They judged others as unworthy but thought they were fit for the kingdom. I think you could be just like them.

You seem so sure you are good and righteous and perfect. Think again. Anyone who thinks that his fellow man is worthy of being tormented forever, IS NOT A GOOD PERSON. That is the end of the story. If you judge a person to be worthy of forever torment, Jesus would tell you that this judgment will be turned back upon you. I think Jesus was all about love but you are siding with evil.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


A direct quote from Jesus:

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Jesus said THAT? How do you know? was there someone writting it all down?
 Quoting: Intergalactic Diplomat


Many scholars now think that Matthew my well have taken down these sayings of Jesus verbatim and as they happened, in his shorthand, only including them in his Gospel account at a later date, after the churches spread over the Mediterranean area where passing on stories by word-of-mouth would be impractical. Therefore, Matthew may well be the key to writing about Jesus when he was on the earth.
[link to wiki.answers.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


problem is, mathew wasnt writen till over 90+ years AD!

Last Edited by Intergalactic Diplomat on 12/21/2012 11:48 AM
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:41 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


A direct quote from Jesus:

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Yes, that quote is true. Jesus actually invented the idea of hell. In the OT, death meant death. Death was the grave.

My question is this: "Who are the righteous?" Who are the people Jesus sees as righteous? It wasn't the Pharisees, who followed all the laws. They looked good on the outside, but the inside was filthy.

I remember that Jesus said that MANY people will stand before him on judgment day. He first mentioned people who did MIRACLES in his name. THen he talks about people who drive out demons. And he mentions people who speak prophecy. Do they sound like religious people? I think they do.

Let's face it. If you thought you drove out a demon (like a priest does) in Jesus name, you would be pretty sure you would go to heaven. If you did a miracle (like praying that someone would be healed) you would think you were worthy of heaven. BUT...Jesus tells ALL of these people to get away from him because he never knew them. Jesus sends them ALL to hell.

Then Jesus said it would be easier for prostitutes and sinners to get into heaven than for Pharisees. BUt then Jesus said that OUR righteousness must be greater than that of the Pharisees or we will not see the kingdom of heaven.

A good man stood before Jesus and told him that he followed all the laws and commandments. He had done this since childhood. He wanted to know what else he should do. Jesus told him that he had to SELL everything he owned and give it all to the poor. He was not joking. He told people that the road was narrow and only a few get in. Most people are just walking along that wide road.

So maybe none of us are going to heaven. Maybe only those 144,000 or something like that. Jesus told people to be perfect, as his father was perfect. I guess it is considered perfect to kill everyone who doesn't follow all the laws and commandments exactly, and remain humble, and put God first, and live a destitute life while giving everything to the poor. This is the only way we could ever be more righteous than a Pharisee. So maybe Jesus wasn't telling lies. Maybe only a very few go to heaven, the perfect ones.

What a confusing bag of garbage the Bible is. This is why I am an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I don't believe in this kind of story because veridical info could be a lie. In other words, just because someone reports that they saw a shoe on the roof of a building when they floated above it, does not make it TRUE. It could be someone telling a lie, trying to make a quick buck by selling a book or something like that. If someone says they talked to or saw a dead relative during a NDE, they were obviously NOT DEAD.

The brain dies AFTER death. Before that time, powerful chemicals are released during these stressful conditions. The people are dreaming. I dreamed that a field in the back of my house was filled with beautiful horses last night. Was this true? Of course not. But it seemed very real in my dream.

I don't believe every story told to me. I don't believe in those television psychics who talk to dead people. I don't believe the stories of people who remember past lives. I don't believe in those ghost hunting stories you hear about. And I don't believe in the stories of people who have had NDEs. If you think this is veridical information, you are wrong. It could be proved to be nothing but a lie. RIGHT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


If there's one case, yes, I would be more skeptical.

When there's many cases, all reporting the exact same thing. It's another story. It now becomes statistically beyond chance, that they would see the exact same thing, giving much further weight to their testimonies.

For example, let's say a judge has one witness, to a rape. The witness, stated, the rapist, wore a yellow baseball cap.

One would be hesitant to believe him.

However, why if 50 witnesses, all stated the rapist wore a yellow baseball cap.

Yes, all 50 still could be lying, but, it now becomes less likely that they are.

In addition, there's multiple other types of evidence, that further backs up their claim. In this specific example, not only veridical NDEs.

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise to blindly reject without evidence.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29966199
Bahamas
12/21/2012 11:41 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


I had an NDE and uncovered veridical information and I saw no Jesus no kingdom of God I did see others though and I felt at peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Do you even know what veridical info means.

If so, provide an example.

In addition, not everyone who has an NDE, even Christians, see Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Please don't deny what I had experienced it is very emotional for me

Basically veridical info is info that you could not have possible known basically


Zeus be praised
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Sorry, that's not all it means.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093



I know that is not all it means but I don't really want to get into details because frankly I don't have the time.

Some people have an NDE and see their past lives and uncover verdical info and that's what happened to me.

Have you ever had an NDE
Anonymous Coward
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Bahamas
12/21/2012 11:42 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Zeus be praised
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 30525185
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12/21/2012 11:42 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


A direct quote from Jesus:

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Yes, that quote is true. Jesus actually invented the idea of hell. In the OT, death meant death. Death was the grave.

My question is this: "Who are the righteous?" Who are the people Jesus sees as righteous? It wasn't the Pharisees, who followed all the laws. They looked good on the outside, but the inside was filthy.

I remember that Jesus said that MANY people will stand before him on judgment day. He first mentioned people who did MIRACLES in his name. THen he talks about people who drive out demons. And he mentions people who speak prophecy. Do they sound like religious people? I think they do.

Let's face it. If you thought you drove out a demon (like a priest does) in Jesus name, you would be pretty sure you would go to heaven. If you did a miracle (like praying that someone would be healed) you would think you were worthy of heaven. BUT...Jesus tells ALL of these people to get away from him because he never knew them. Jesus sends them ALL to hell.

Then Jesus said it would be easier for prostitutes and sinners to get into heaven than for Pharisees. BUt then Jesus said that OUR righteousness must be greater than that of the Pharisees or we will not see the kingdom of heaven.

A good man stood before Jesus and told him that he followed all the laws and commandments. He had done this since childhood. He wanted to know what else he should do. Jesus told him that he had to SELL everything he owned and give it all to the poor. He was not joking. He told people that the road was narrow and only a few get in. Most people are just walking along that wide road.

So maybe none of us are going to heaven. Maybe only those 144,000 or something like that. Jesus told people to be perfect, as his father was perfect. I guess it is considered perfect to kill everyone who doesn't follow all the laws and commandments exactly, and remain humble, and put God first, and live a destitute life while giving everything to the poor. This is the only way we could ever be more righteous than a Pharisee. So maybe Jesus wasn't telling lies. Maybe only a very few go to heaven, the perfect ones.

What a confusing bag of garbage the Bible is. This is why I am an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I don't believe in this kind of story because veridical info could be a lie. In other words, just because someone reports that they saw a shoe on the roof of a building when they floated above it, does not make it TRUE. It could be someone telling a lie, trying to make a quick buck by selling a book or something like that. If someone says they talked to or saw a dead relative during a NDE, they were obviously NOT DEAD.

The brain dies AFTER death. Before that time, powerful chemicals are released during these stressful conditions. The people are dreaming. I dreamed that a field in the back of my house was filled with beautiful horses last night. Was this true? Of course not. But it seemed very real in my dream.

I don't believe every story told to me. I don't believe in those television psychics who talk to dead people. I don't believe the stories of people who remember past lives. I don't believe in those ghost hunting stories you hear about. And I don't believe in the stories of people who have had NDEs. If you think this is veridical information, you are wrong. It could be proved to be nothing but a lie. RIGHT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I understand your state of mind. But have you not heard of people being pronounced dead and then later coming back to life? And these same people later recounting how their souls left their bodies and they being able to see their dead body and all things around it?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 29966199
Bahamas
12/21/2012 11:48 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Do you even know what veridical info means.

If so, provide an example.

In addition, not everyone who has an NDE, even Christians, see Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Please don't deny what I had experienced it is very emotional for me

Basically veridical info is info that you could not have possible known basically


Zeus be praised
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Sorry, that's not all it means.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093



I know that is not all it means but I don't really want to get into details because frankly I don't have the time.

Some people have an NDE and see their past lives and uncover verdical info and that's what happened to me.

Have you ever had an NDE
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Zeus be praised
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:48 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Yes, that quote is true. Jesus actually invented the idea of hell. In the OT, death meant death. Death was the grave.

My question is this: "Who are the righteous?" Who are the people Jesus sees as righteous? It wasn't the Pharisees, who followed all the laws. They looked good on the outside, but the inside was filthy.

I remember that Jesus said that MANY people will stand before him on judgment day. He first mentioned people who did MIRACLES in his name. THen he talks about people who drive out demons. And he mentions people who speak prophecy. Do they sound like religious people? I think they do.

Let's face it. If you thought you drove out a demon (like a priest does) in Jesus name, you would be pretty sure you would go to heaven. If you did a miracle (like praying that someone would be healed) you would think you were worthy of heaven. BUT...Jesus tells ALL of these people to get away from him because he never knew them. Jesus sends them ALL to hell.

Then Jesus said it would be easier for prostitutes and sinners to get into heaven than for Pharisees. BUt then Jesus said that OUR righteousness must be greater than that of the Pharisees or we will not see the kingdom of heaven.

A good man stood before Jesus and told him that he followed all the laws and commandments. He had done this since childhood. He wanted to know what else he should do. Jesus told him that he had to SELL everything he owned and give it all to the poor. He was not joking. He told people that the road was narrow and only a few get in. Most people are just walking along that wide road.

So maybe none of us are going to heaven. Maybe only those 144,000 or something like that. Jesus told people to be perfect, as his father was perfect. I guess it is considered perfect to kill everyone who doesn't follow all the laws and commandments exactly, and remain humble, and put God first, and live a destitute life while giving everything to the poor. This is the only way we could ever be more righteous than a Pharisee. So maybe Jesus wasn't telling lies. Maybe only a very few go to heaven, the perfect ones.

What a confusing bag of garbage the Bible is. This is why I am an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I don't believe in this kind of story because veridical info could be a lie. In other words, just because someone reports that they saw a shoe on the roof of a building when they floated above it, does not make it TRUE. It could be someone telling a lie, trying to make a quick buck by selling a book or something like that. If someone says they talked to or saw a dead relative during a NDE, they were obviously NOT DEAD.

The brain dies AFTER death. Before that time, powerful chemicals are released during these stressful conditions. The people are dreaming. I dreamed that a field in the back of my house was filled with beautiful horses last night. Was this true? Of course not. But it seemed very real in my dream.

I don't believe every story told to me. I don't believe in those television psychics who talk to dead people. I don't believe the stories of people who remember past lives. I don't believe in those ghost hunting stories you hear about. And I don't believe in the stories of people who have had NDEs. If you think this is veridical information, you are wrong. It could be proved to be nothing but a lie. RIGHT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


If there's one case, yes, I would be more skeptical.

When there's many cases, all reporting the exact same thing. It's another story. It now becomes statistically beyond chance, that they would see the exact same thing, giving much further weight to their testimonies.

For example, let's say a judge has one witness, to a rape. The witness, stated, the rapist, wore a yellow baseball cap.

One would be hesitant to believe him.

However, why if 50 witnesses, all stated the rapist wore a yellow baseball cap.

Yes, all 50 still could be lying, but, it now becomes less likely that they are.

In addition, there's multiple other types of evidence, that further backs up their claim. In this specific example, not only veridical NDEs.

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise to blindly reject without evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I think you are wrong. From what I have read, each person that has an NDE sees something completely different from another person. It is like a DREAM. This is not evidence that this happened, any more than a dream would be considered veridical evidence.

There are many more people who have died and have seen nothing. Where are all these people you are talking about? I certainly haven't heard about them. I have heard MORE people talk about the fact that they remember past lives. I have heard MORE people talk about the fact that they were abducted by UFOs.

If you want to believe in these stories, that's fine. But there is not any proof that these stories happened. Even if something like this happened to you, you could not possibly know if this was real or your brain playing tricks on you.

People who do acid have powerful trips that seem real, but it is the BRAIN playing tricks on the person. Maybe the brain, when it is traumatized, releases chemicals that make a person feel this is something more than a dream? I don't know for sure, but I know better than to believe something just because someone says it.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:51 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


I had an NDE and uncovered veridical information and I saw no Jesus no kingdom of God I did see others though and I felt at peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Do you even know what veridical info means.

If so, provide an example.

In addition, not everyone who has an NDE, even Christians, see Jesus.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Please don't deny what I had experienced it is very emotional for me

Basically veridical info is info that you could not have possible known basically


Zeus be praised
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


while I love the NDE topic and feel their is interesting and important info there, we need to consider a few things:

1) the operative term is NEAR death... you ain't there yet... don't rely on it solely to inform your world view...

2) the supernatural can impersonate loved ones and contrive all kinds of deception... listen to Roger Morneau, former spirit worshipper, for more on this...

:)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20657814
United States
12/21/2012 11:53 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Yes, that quote is true. Jesus actually invented the idea of hell. In the OT, death meant death. Death was the grave.

My question is this: "Who are the righteous?" Who are the people Jesus sees as righteous? It wasn't the Pharisees, who followed all the laws. They looked good on the outside, but the inside was filthy.

I remember that Jesus said that MANY people will stand before him on judgment day. He first mentioned people who did MIRACLES in his name. THen he talks about people who drive out demons. And he mentions people who speak prophecy. Do they sound like religious people? I think they do.

Let's face it. If you thought you drove out a demon (like a priest does) in Jesus name, you would be pretty sure you would go to heaven. If you did a miracle (like praying that someone would be healed) you would think you were worthy of heaven. BUT...Jesus tells ALL of these people to get away from him because he never knew them. Jesus sends them ALL to hell.

Then Jesus said it would be easier for prostitutes and sinners to get into heaven than for Pharisees. BUt then Jesus said that OUR righteousness must be greater than that of the Pharisees or we will not see the kingdom of heaven.

A good man stood before Jesus and told him that he followed all the laws and commandments. He had done this since childhood. He wanted to know what else he should do. Jesus told him that he had to SELL everything he owned and give it all to the poor. He was not joking. He told people that the road was narrow and only a few get in. Most people are just walking along that wide road.

So maybe none of us are going to heaven. Maybe only those 144,000 or something like that. Jesus told people to be perfect, as his father was perfect. I guess it is considered perfect to kill everyone who doesn't follow all the laws and commandments exactly, and remain humble, and put God first, and live a destitute life while giving everything to the poor. This is the only way we could ever be more righteous than a Pharisee. So maybe Jesus wasn't telling lies. Maybe only a very few go to heaven, the perfect ones.

What a confusing bag of garbage the Bible is. This is why I am an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I don't believe in this kind of story because veridical info could be a lie. In other words, just because someone reports that they saw a shoe on the roof of a building when they floated above it, does not make it TRUE. It could be someone telling a lie, trying to make a quick buck by selling a book or something like that. If someone says they talked to or saw a dead relative during a NDE, they were obviously NOT DEAD.

The brain dies AFTER death. Before that time, powerful chemicals are released during these stressful conditions. The people are dreaming. I dreamed that a field in the back of my house was filled with beautiful horses last night. Was this true? Of course not. But it seemed very real in my dream.

I don't believe every story told to me. I don't believe in those television psychics who talk to dead people. I don't believe the stories of people who remember past lives. I don't believe in those ghost hunting stories you hear about. And I don't believe in the stories of people who have had NDEs. If you think this is veridical information, you are wrong. It could be proved to be nothing but a lie. RIGHT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I understand your state of mind. But have you not heard of people being pronounced dead and then later coming back to life? And these same people later recounting how their souls left their bodies and they being able to see their dead body and all things around it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185

Yes, I have heard of those stories, of course. I have heard the stories of people who come in contact with ghosts. I have heard the stories of people who contact the spirits of dead people and tell their loved ones messages from beyond. I have heard stories of people who remember their past lives and know the people who used to be their family members. I have heard the stories of people who have been probed by aliens.

Now...do I believe all these stories? NO, I don't. You can pick and choose what stories you want to believe, but this does not make them true. I don't know anyone personally that died and floated above their body. If I did, maybe I might believe this story a little more.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:54 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
NDEs can be verified as more than just a dream... spend some time researching the topic...

it is similar to an Out of Body Exerience... you definitely realize you are not your body and there is more going on...

many people can leave their bodies and see things...

this is also widely known in some circles of the occult and elsewhere...

:)
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:55 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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A direct quote from Jesus:

Matthew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Jesus said THAT? How do you know? was there someone writting it all down?
 Quoting: Intergalactic Diplomat


Many scholars now think that Matthew my well have taken down these sayings of Jesus verbatim and as they happened, in his shorthand, only including them in his Gospel account at a later date, after the churches spread over the Mediterranean area where passing on stories by word-of-mouth would be impractical. Therefore, Matthew may well be the key to writing about Jesus when he was on the earth.
[link to wiki.answers.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


problem is, mathew wasnt writen till over 90+ years AD!
 Quoting: Intergalactic Diplomat


What is your point?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 21495729
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12/21/2012 11:55 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Nothing scares me more than to live in a world full of grown adults who actually believe in these magical fairytale desert myths. It makes me sick. Humanity has absolutely no chance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


and nothing pleases TPTB and the supernatural more than to hear you say it...

I told my mom about how Wilhelm Reich made it rain and saved the blueberry harvest in Maine...

she didn't believe me...

then when we were in car driving through Rangely, Maine, where the Reich museum is, I stopped and asked the first person I saw if they knew about it:

"Oh, yeah, everyone knows about that."

think about your bias, yo... you weren't born with one...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


And this is where your logic is ever so backwards, my friend. I was raised in religion (18 years of attempted brainwashing), and I have ALWAYS felt this way - even as a very small child, before I was even in school or ever influenced by your "magical", "evil" TPTB. I was always afraid of, and completely flabbergasted at the completely idiotic beliefs of the adults surrounding me. And I still am.

I know that you really want to believe that I'm just a product of the "magical", "evil" TPTB's "magical", "evil" programming, but unfortunately for you and the rest of the psycho, scripture-spewing brainwashed adult population, it is the exact opposite that is the real truth. Your religion has been created by your "magical", "evil" TPTB to control you, and they have done a bang-up job. Really.

You people also just HAVE to believe in "magical", "satanic", "evil", "scary" monsters, because you believe in childish fairytale boogie-men who are trying to turn you away from the childish fairytale sky goon father-figure. WTF? You are adults, right? Really?

Scary, indeed.

rant
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:56 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I don't believe in this kind of story because veridical info could be a lie. In other words, just because someone reports that they saw a shoe on the roof of a building when they floated above it, does not make it TRUE. It could be someone telling a lie, trying to make a quick buck by selling a book or something like that. If someone says they talked to or saw a dead relative during a NDE, they were obviously NOT DEAD.

The brain dies AFTER death. Before that time, powerful chemicals are released during these stressful conditions. The people are dreaming. I dreamed that a field in the back of my house was filled with beautiful horses last night. Was this true? Of course not. But it seemed very real in my dream.

I don't believe every story told to me. I don't believe in those television psychics who talk to dead people. I don't believe the stories of people who remember past lives. I don't believe in those ghost hunting stories you hear about. And I don't believe in the stories of people who have had NDEs. If you think this is veridical information, you are wrong. It could be proved to be nothing but a lie. RIGHT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


If there's one case, yes, I would be more skeptical.

When there's many cases, all reporting the exact same thing. It's another story. It now becomes statistically beyond chance, that they would see the exact same thing, giving much further weight to their testimonies.

For example, let's say a judge has one witness, to a rape. The witness, stated, the rapist, wore a yellow baseball cap.

One would be hesitant to believe him.

However, why if 50 witnesses, all stated the rapist wore a yellow baseball cap.

Yes, all 50 still could be lying, but, it now becomes less likely that they are.

In addition, there's multiple other types of evidence, that further backs up their claim. In this specific example, not only veridical NDEs.

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise to blindly reject without evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I think you are wrong. From what I have read, each person that has an NDE sees something completely different from another person. It is like a DREAM. This is not evidence that this happened, any more than a dream would be considered veridical evidence.

There are many more people who have died and have seen nothing. Where are all these people you are talking about? I certainly haven't heard about them. I have heard MORE people talk about the fact that they remember past lives. I have heard MORE people talk about the fact that they were abducted by UFOs.

If you want to believe in these stories, that's fine. But there is not any proof that these stories happened. Even if something like this happened to you, you could not possibly know if this was real or your brain playing tricks on you.

People who do acid have powerful trips that seem real, but it is the BRAIN playing tricks on the person. Maybe the brain, when it is traumatized, releases chemicals that make a person feel this is something more than a dream? I don't know for sure, but I know better than to believe something just because someone says it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I think you are wrong. From what I have read, each person that has an NDE sees something completely different from another person. It is like a DREAM. This is not evidence that this happened, any more than a dream would be considered veridical evidence.

You haven't read enough NDEs. If the NDE does not contain veridical info, than yes, one may equate it to a dream.

But, as already stated, I specifically stated, NDEs that contain veridical info. Also, if you read enough NDEs, you would see that many (not all) but many do indeed see the exact same thing. For example, while in heaven, there's been multiple cases, of people all reporting to see flowers singing praises, and in particular to God.

If you want to believe in these stories, that's fine. But there is not any proof that these stories happened. Even if something like this happened to you, you could not possibly know if this was real or your brain playing tricks on you.

As already stated, if the NDE contains veridical info, this now becomes impossible that this is merely your brain playing tricks on you.

People who do acid have powerful trips that seem real, but it is the BRAIN playing tricks on the person. Maybe the brain, when it is traumatized, releases chemicals that make a person feel this is something more than a dream? I don't know for sure, but I know better than to believe something just because someone says it.

Again, if the NDE contains veridical, it's now impossible to say your brain was merely playing tricks on you.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 11:58 AM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Nothing scares me more than to live in a world full of grown adults who actually believe in these magical fairytale desert myths. It makes me sick. Humanity has absolutely no chance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


and nothing pleases TPTB and the supernatural more than to hear you say it...

I told my mom about how Wilhelm Reich made it rain and saved the blueberry harvest in Maine...

she didn't believe me...

then when we were in car driving through Rangely, Maine, where the Reich museum is, I stopped and asked the first person I saw if they knew about it:

"Oh, yeah, everyone knows about that."

think about your bias, yo... you weren't born with one...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


And this is where your logic is ever so backwards, my friend. I was raised in religion (18 years of attempted brainwashing), and I have ALWAYS felt this way - even as a very small child, before I was even in school or ever influenced by your "magical", "evil" TPTB. I was always afraid of, and completely flabbergasted at the completely idiotic beliefs of the adults surrounding me. And I still am.

I know that you really want to believe that I'm just a product of the "magical", "evil" TPTB's "magical", "evil" programming, but unfortunately for you and the rest of the psycho, scripture-spewing brainwashed adult population, it is the exact opposite that is the real truth. Your religion has been created by your "magical", "evil" TPTB to control you, and they have done a bang-up job. Really.

You people also just HAVE to believe in "magical", "satanic", "evil", "scary" monsters, because you believe in childish fairytale boogie-men who are trying to turn you away from the childish fairytale sky goon father-figure. WTF? You are adults, right? Really?

Scary, indeed.

rant
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


Nothing scares me more than to live in a world full of grown adults who actually believe in these magical fairytale desert myths. It makes me sick. Humanity has absolutely no chance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


and nothing pleases TPTB and the supernatural more than to hear you say it...

I told my mom about how Wilhelm Reich made it rain and saved the blueberry harvest in Maine...

she didn't believe me...

then when we were in car driving through Rangely, Maine, where the Reich museum is, I stopped and asked the first person I saw if they knew about it:

"Oh, yeah, everyone knows about that."

think about your bias, yo... you weren't born with one...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


And this is where your logic is ever so backwards, my friend. I was raised in religion (18 years of attempted brainwashing), and I have ALWAYS felt this way - even as a very small child, before I was even in school or ever influenced by your "magical", "evil" TPTB. I was always afraid of, and completely flabbergasted at the completely idiotic beliefs of the adults surrounding me. And I still am.

I know that you really want to believe that I'm just a product of the "magical", "evil" TPTB's "magical", "evil" programming, but unfortunately for you and the rest of the psycho, scripture-spewing brainwashed adult population, it is the exact opposite that is the real truth. Your religion has been created by your "magical", "evil" TPTB to control you, and they have done a bang-up job. Really.

You people also just HAVE to believe in "magical", "satanic", "evil", "scary" monsters, because you believe in childish fairytale boogie-men who are trying to turn you away from the childish fairytale sky goon father-figure. WTF? You are adults, right? Really?

Scary, indeed.

rant
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


So you don't believe that evil or good is real?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:02 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Nothing scares me more than to live in a world full of grown adults who actually believe in these magical fairytale desert myths. It makes me sick. Humanity has absolutely no chance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


and nothing pleases TPTB and the supernatural more than to hear you say it...

I told my mom about how Wilhelm Reich made it rain and saved the blueberry harvest in Maine...

she didn't believe me...

then when we were in car driving through Rangely, Maine, where the Reich museum is, I stopped and asked the first person I saw if they knew about it:

"Oh, yeah, everyone knows about that."

think about your bias, yo... you weren't born with one...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


And this is where your logic is ever so backwards, my friend. I was raised in religion (18 years of attempted brainwashing), and I have ALWAYS felt this way - even as a very small child, before I was even in school or ever influenced by your "magical", "evil" TPTB. I was always afraid of, and completely flabbergasted at the completely idiotic beliefs of the adults surrounding me. And I still am.

I know that you really want to believe that I'm just a product of the "magical", "evil" TPTB's "magical", "evil" programming, but unfortunately for you and the rest of the psycho, scripture-spewing brainwashed adult population, it is the exact opposite that is the real truth. Your religion has been created by your "magical", "evil" TPTB to control you, and they have done a bang-up job. Really.

You people also just HAVE to believe in "magical", "satanic", "evil", "scary" monsters, because you believe in childish fairytale boogie-men who are trying to turn you away from the childish fairytale sky goon father-figure. WTF? You are adults, right? Really?

Scary, indeed.

rant
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


Nothing scares me more than to live in a world full of grown adults who actually believe in these magical fairytale desert myths. It makes me sick. Humanity has absolutely no chance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


and nothing pleases TPTB and the supernatural more than to hear you say it...

I told my mom about how Wilhelm Reich made it rain and saved the blueberry harvest in Maine...

she didn't believe me...

then when we were in car driving through Rangely, Maine, where the Reich museum is, I stopped and asked the first person I saw if they knew about it:

"Oh, yeah, everyone knows about that."

think about your bias, yo... you weren't born with one...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


And this is where your logic is ever so backwards, my friend. I was raised in religion (18 years of attempted brainwashing), and I have ALWAYS felt this way - even as a very small child, before I was even in school or ever influenced by your "magical", "evil" TPTB. I was always afraid of, and completely flabbergasted at the completely idiotic beliefs of the adults surrounding me. And I still am.

I know that you really want to believe that I'm just a product of the "magical", "evil" TPTB's "magical", "evil" programming, but unfortunately for you and the rest of the psycho, scripture-spewing brainwashed adult population, it is the exact opposite that is the real truth. Your religion has been created by your "magical", "evil" TPTB to control you, and they have done a bang-up job. Really.

You people also just HAVE to believe in "magical", "satanic", "evil", "scary" monsters, because you believe in childish fairytale boogie-men who are trying to turn you away from the childish fairytale sky goon father-figure. WTF? You are adults, right? Really?

Scary, indeed.

rant
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


So you don't believe that evil or good is real?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


Of course I believe in evil and good. What I don't believe in are childish fairytale boogie-men and childish fairy tale sky goon father-figures. You don't need those characters to believe in the principles. But your brainwashers need you to think so.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 20657814
United States
12/21/2012 12:04 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...

I don't believe in this kind of story because veridical info could be a lie. In other words, just because someone reports that they saw a shoe on the roof of a building when they floated above it, does not make it TRUE. It could be someone telling a lie, trying to make a quick buck by selling a book or something like that. If someone says they talked to or saw a dead relative during a NDE, they were obviously NOT DEAD.

The brain dies AFTER death. Before that time, powerful chemicals are released during these stressful conditions. The people are dreaming. I dreamed that a field in the back of my house was filled with beautiful horses last night. Was this true? Of course not. But it seemed very real in my dream.

I don't believe every story told to me. I don't believe in those television psychics who talk to dead people. I don't believe the stories of people who remember past lives. I don't believe in those ghost hunting stories you hear about. And I don't believe in the stories of people who have had NDEs. If you think this is veridical information, you are wrong. It could be proved to be nothing but a lie. RIGHT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


If there's one case, yes, I would be more skeptical.

When there's many cases, all reporting the exact same thing. It's another story. It now becomes statistically beyond chance, that they would see the exact same thing, giving much further weight to their testimonies.

For example, let's say a judge has one witness, to a rape. The witness, stated, the rapist, wore a yellow baseball cap.

One would be hesitant to believe him.

However, why if 50 witnesses, all stated the rapist wore a yellow baseball cap.

Yes, all 50 still could be lying, but, it now becomes less likely that they are.

In addition, there's multiple other types of evidence, that further backs up their claim. In this specific example, not only veridical NDEs.

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise to blindly reject without evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I think you are wrong. From what I have read, each person that has an NDE sees something completely different from another person. It is like a DREAM. This is not evidence that this happened, any more than a dream would be considered veridical evidence.

There are many more people who have died and have seen nothing. Where are all these people you are talking about? I certainly haven't heard about them. I have heard MORE people talk about the fact that they remember past lives. I have heard MORE people talk about the fact that they were abducted by UFOs.

If you want to believe in these stories, that's fine. But there is not any proof that these stories happened. Even if something like this happened to you, you could not possibly know if this was real or your brain playing tricks on you.

People who do acid have powerful trips that seem real, but it is the BRAIN playing tricks on the person. Maybe the brain, when it is traumatized, releases chemicals that make a person feel this is something more than a dream? I don't know for sure, but I know better than to believe something just because someone says it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I think you are wrong. From what I have read, each person that has an NDE sees something completely different from another person. It is like a DREAM. This is not evidence that this happened, any more than a dream would be considered veridical evidence.

You haven't read enough NDEs. If the NDE does not contain veridical info, than yes, one may equate it to a dream.

But, as already stated, I specifically stated, NDEs that contain veridical info. Also, if you read enough NDEs, you would see that many (not all) but many do indeed see the exact same thing. For example, while in heaven, there's been multiple cases, of people all reporting to see flowers singing praises, and in particular to God.

If you want to believe in these stories, that's fine. But there is not any proof that these stories happened. Even if something like this happened to you, you could not possibly know if this was real or your brain playing tricks on you.

As already stated, if the NDE contains veridical info, this now becomes impossible that this is merely your brain playing tricks on you.

People who do acid have powerful trips that seem real, but it is the BRAIN playing tricks on the person. Maybe the brain, when it is traumatized, releases chemicals that make a person feel this is something more than a dream? I don't know for sure, but I know better than to believe something just because someone says it.

Again, if the NDE contains veridical, it's now impossible to say your brain was merely playing tricks on you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Name just one case in which a person had an NDE that could not have been just a lie that they told to sell a book or to feel important or to advance a cause? Give me one example of an NDE that happened to someone that couldn't be proven to be a lie.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26268975
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12/21/2012 12:04 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
while I don't agree with this because Christ says He came to fulfill the law
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


And you are to follow Him aren´t you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


That's the fact, jack!

Christ is the law now...

new sherif in town, new laws in effect...

that's why it is so important to read the new testament...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


If you have not got it yet you won´t ever: Jesus is teaching his followers fullfillment of the Law of God = the Word of God.iamwith
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 30525185
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12/21/2012 12:06 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


and nothing pleases TPTB and the supernatural more than to hear you say it...

I told my mom about how Wilhelm Reich made it rain and saved the blueberry harvest in Maine...

she didn't believe me...

then when we were in car driving through Rangely, Maine, where the Reich museum is, I stopped and asked the first person I saw if they knew about it:

"Oh, yeah, everyone knows about that."

think about your bias, yo... you weren't born with one...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


And this is where your logic is ever so backwards, my friend. I was raised in religion (18 years of attempted brainwashing), and I have ALWAYS felt this way - even as a very small child, before I was even in school or ever influenced by your "magical", "evil" TPTB. I was always afraid of, and completely flabbergasted at the completely idiotic beliefs of the adults surrounding me. And I still am.

I know that you really want to believe that I'm just a product of the "magical", "evil" TPTB's "magical", "evil" programming, but unfortunately for you and the rest of the psycho, scripture-spewing brainwashed adult population, it is the exact opposite that is the real truth. Your religion has been created by your "magical", "evil" TPTB to control you, and they have done a bang-up job. Really.

You people also just HAVE to believe in "magical", "satanic", "evil", "scary" monsters, because you believe in childish fairytale boogie-men who are trying to turn you away from the childish fairytale sky goon father-figure. WTF? You are adults, right? Really?

Scary, indeed.

rant
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


...


and nothing pleases TPTB and the supernatural more than to hear you say it...

I told my mom about how Wilhelm Reich made it rain and saved the blueberry harvest in Maine...

she didn't believe me...

then when we were in car driving through Rangely, Maine, where the Reich museum is, I stopped and asked the first person I saw if they knew about it:

"Oh, yeah, everyone knows about that."

think about your bias, yo... you weren't born with one...

:)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30440264


And this is where your logic is ever so backwards, my friend. I was raised in religion (18 years of attempted brainwashing), and I have ALWAYS felt this way - even as a very small child, before I was even in school or ever influenced by your "magical", "evil" TPTB. I was always afraid of, and completely flabbergasted at the completely idiotic beliefs of the adults surrounding me. And I still am.

I know that you really want to believe that I'm just a product of the "magical", "evil" TPTB's "magical", "evil" programming, but unfortunately for you and the rest of the psycho, scripture-spewing brainwashed adult population, it is the exact opposite that is the real truth. Your religion has been created by your "magical", "evil" TPTB to control you, and they have done a bang-up job. Really.

You people also just HAVE to believe in "magical", "satanic", "evil", "scary" monsters, because you believe in childish fairytale boogie-men who are trying to turn you away from the childish fairytale sky goon father-figure. WTF? You are adults, right? Really?

Scary, indeed.

rant
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


So you don't believe that evil or good is real?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


Of course I believe in evil and good. What I don't believe in are childish fairytale boogie-men and childish fairy tale sky goon father-figures. You don't need those characters to believe in the principles. But your brainwashers need you to think so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


You're being quite disrespectful. What proof do you have to conclude that Christ or the Lord is not real?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26268975
Slovakia
12/21/2012 12:08 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...



Should He love the wicked(ness) rather?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


The true one would love it ALL, as ALL comes from it.


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


Wickedness is not divine, silly. You are confused MUCH.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


If you believe that your god created EVERYTHING,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


He did not. Logics fail. The divine cannot degenerate, unlike His creation given away to humans:

And God saw that it was good. Then God said, Let us make man in our image and

let them rule … Genesis 1:26
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26268975
Slovakia
12/21/2012 12:10 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
how can we fear God and Love him at the same time?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30117938


[link to biblez.com]

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