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Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:11 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
how can we fear God and Love him at the same time?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30117938


[link to biblez.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


Song of Solomon 6:4 You are beautiful, my darling, as Tirzah ...
... Thou art beautiful, O my love, as Tirzah, comely as Jerusalem,
terrible as an army with banners. ... Song ...
//bible.cc/songs/6-4.htm - 15k

Song of Solomon 6:10 Who is this that appears like the dawn, fair ...
... Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear
as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners? ... Song ...
//bible.cc/songs/6-10.htm - 15k
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:11 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


The true one would love it ALL, as ALL comes from it.


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


Wickedness is not divine, silly. You are confused MUCH.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


If you believe that your god created EVERYTHING,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


He did not. Logics fail. The divine cannot degenerate, unlike His creation given away to humans:

And God saw that it was good. Then God said, Let us make man in our image and

let them rule … Genesis 1:26
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


Yes.

Sadly, a lot of people speak about things which they do not know because they do not care enough to educate themselves.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:17 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
I mean he did all this petty, jealous and vengeful stuff in the old testament.. then to top it off sent his/her/its son to be killed by us.

That is not the type of god i want to pray to. Perhaps the snake in the garden was the good guy, trying to warn us about this sick fuck.

Im conflicted because the story of Jesus' life and his death is gut wrenching, i love that guy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 570175


That's because the "God" of the old testament was actually an alien overlord that was crazy for power and control.
BOWMAN

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12/21/2012 12:17 PM

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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Wickedness is not divine, silly. You are confused MUCH.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


If you believe that your god created EVERYTHING,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


He did not. Logics fail. The divine cannot degenerate, unlike His creation given away to humans:

And God saw that it was good. Then God said, Let us make man in our image and

let them rule … Genesis 1:26
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


Yes.

Sadly, a lot of people speak about things which they do not know because they do not care enough to educate themselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


Choosing to believe something is education?


------
"And I understood that in an age where there was so much ego, because of the camera, that it was very important to look for that kind of player, ... I began to look for the kind of player that doesn't need his ego fed by stardom, but will do what he's supposed to do because he knows the game and loves the game, and will do the job the right way even if someone else gets the glory." ~ Bill Belichick

H&W P401 Recip./Parson's Turbine Cold Start

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Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:18 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
I mean he did all this petty, jealous and vengeful stuff in the old testament.. then to top it off sent his/her/its son to be killed by us.

That is not the type of god i want to pray to. Perhaps the snake in the garden was the good guy, trying to warn us about this sick fuck.

Im conflicted because the story of Jesus' life and his death is gut wrenching, i love that guy.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 570175


That's because the "God" of the old testament was actually an alien overlord that was crazy for power and control.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24957083


You are blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Well done. Sarc
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:19 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
The God who "rules" via fear?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


God doesn't rule through fear he rules though love, it's satan who rule uses fear lies and deception
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:19 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


If there's one case, yes, I would be more skeptical.

When there's many cases, all reporting the exact same thing. It's another story. It now becomes statistically beyond chance, that they would see the exact same thing, giving much further weight to their testimonies.

For example, let's say a judge has one witness, to a rape. The witness, stated, the rapist, wore a yellow baseball cap.

One would be hesitant to believe him.

However, why if 50 witnesses, all stated the rapist wore a yellow baseball cap.

Yes, all 50 still could be lying, but, it now becomes less likely that they are.

In addition, there's multiple other types of evidence, that further backs up their claim. In this specific example, not only veridical NDEs.

To blindly accept information without evidence, is just as unwise to blindly reject without evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I think you are wrong. From what I have read, each person that has an NDE sees something completely different from another person. It is like a DREAM. This is not evidence that this happened, any more than a dream would be considered veridical evidence.

There are many more people who have died and have seen nothing. Where are all these people you are talking about? I certainly haven't heard about them. I have heard MORE people talk about the fact that they remember past lives. I have heard MORE people talk about the fact that they were abducted by UFOs.

If you want to believe in these stories, that's fine. But there is not any proof that these stories happened. Even if something like this happened to you, you could not possibly know if this was real or your brain playing tricks on you.

People who do acid have powerful trips that seem real, but it is the BRAIN playing tricks on the person. Maybe the brain, when it is traumatized, releases chemicals that make a person feel this is something more than a dream? I don't know for sure, but I know better than to believe something just because someone says it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I think you are wrong. From what I have read, each person that has an NDE sees something completely different from another person. It is like a DREAM. This is not evidence that this happened, any more than a dream would be considered veridical evidence.

You haven't read enough NDEs. If the NDE does not contain veridical info, than yes, one may equate it to a dream.

But, as already stated, I specifically stated, NDEs that contain veridical info. Also, if you read enough NDEs, you would see that many (not all) but many do indeed see the exact same thing. For example, while in heaven, there's been multiple cases, of people all reporting to see flowers singing praises, and in particular to God.

If you want to believe in these stories, that's fine. But there is not any proof that these stories happened. Even if something like this happened to you, you could not possibly know if this was real or your brain playing tricks on you.

As already stated, if the NDE contains veridical info, this now becomes impossible that this is merely your brain playing tricks on you.

People who do acid have powerful trips that seem real, but it is the BRAIN playing tricks on the person. Maybe the brain, when it is traumatized, releases chemicals that make a person feel this is something more than a dream? I don't know for sure, but I know better than to believe something just because someone says it.

Again, if the NDE contains veridical, it's now impossible to say your brain was merely playing tricks on you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Name just one case in which a person had an NDE that could not have been just a lie that they told to sell a book or to feel important or to advance a cause? Give me one example of an NDE that happened to someone that couldn't be proven to be a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


There's a good one from a book.

But let me first ask, so you if read something from a book, you automatically dismiss as a lie, without any evidence?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:20 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
The God who "rules" via fear?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


God doesn't rule through fear he rules though love, it's satan who rule uses fear lies and deception
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30443981



The fear of God is meant for the wicked. Who is not?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:23 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


I would suggest looking into NDE cases, in which veridical info is found.

For example, a person has an NDE. Meets the deceased in a heavenly location. Then finds out information about them that was impossible to know about.

After the experience, the information discovered, is researched and verified to be true down to the exact details.

Proving that the experience was not based on the imagination, subconscious beliefs and expectations.

Psychologists, neuroscientists, nor atheists can not explain these types of NDEs in which veridical information is associated.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093

I don't believe in this kind of story because veridical info could be a lie. In other words, just because someone reports that they saw a shoe on the roof of a building when they floated above it, does not make it TRUE. It could be someone telling a lie, trying to make a quick buck by selling a book or something like that. If someone says they talked to or saw a dead relative during a NDE, they were obviously NOT DEAD.

The brain dies AFTER death. Before that time, powerful chemicals are released during these stressful conditions. The people are dreaming. I dreamed that a field in the back of my house was filled with beautiful horses last night. Was this true? Of course not. But it seemed very real in my dream.

I don't believe every story told to me. I don't believe in those television psychics who talk to dead people. I don't believe the stories of people who remember past lives. I don't believe in those ghost hunting stories you hear about. And I don't believe in the stories of people who have had NDEs. If you think this is veridical information, you are wrong. It could be proved to be nothing but a lie. RIGHT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I understand your state of mind. But have you not heard of people being pronounced dead and then later coming back to life? And these same people later recounting how their souls left their bodies and they being able to see their dead body and all things around it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185

Yes, I have heard of those stories, of course. I have heard the stories of people who come in contact with ghosts. I have heard the stories of people who contact the spirits of dead people and tell their loved ones messages from beyond. I have heard stories of people who remember their past lives and know the people who used to be their family members. I have heard the stories of people who have been probed by aliens.

Now...do I believe all these stories? NO, I don't. You can pick and choose what stories you want to believe, but this does not make them true. I don't know anyone personally that died and floated above their body. If I did, maybe I might believe this story a little more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So the only possible explanation is that they're lying?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:25 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


If you believe that your god created EVERYTHING,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


He did not. Logics fail. The divine cannot degenerate, unlike His creation given away to humans:

And God saw that it was good. Then God said, Let us make man in our image and

let them rule … Genesis 1:26
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


Yes.

Sadly, a lot of people speak about things which they do not know because they do not care enough to educate themselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


Choosing to believe something is education?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


If a person is not insane, usually the more they're educated on a subject, the more they understand it.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:27 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
"Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'"

If by that you mean the Creator of Heaven and Earth,
Yahweh, you are in big trouble, because when you die,
you will stand before Him.

I can see that now, "Uhh, I know I've never been a
"fan" of yours, but...."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8977874


I think the point of the original idea was that this Yahweh thing is not actually any kind of creator god at all, but a misleading demon that holds the ignorant in thrall for its own pleasure. So really no one is in any trouble for not being its fan. It uses people who threaten violence to others to maintain its following. It also induces its followers to vociferously reject learning and light, because the light of knowledge reaches into the darkness of ignorance in which the demon followers find their comfort.
Intergalactic Diplomat

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12/21/2012 12:30 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
how can we fear God and Love him at the same time?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30117938


[link to biblez.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


Song of Solomon 6:4 You are beautiful, my darling, as Tirzah ...
... Thou art beautiful, O my love, as Tirzah, comely as Jerusalem,
terrible as an army with banners. ... Song ...
//bible.cc/songs/6-4.htm - 15k

Song of Solomon 6:10 Who is this that appears like the dawn, fair ...
... Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear
as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners? ... Song ...
//bible.cc/songs/6-10.htm - 15k
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


Is it better to be feared.... or loved.

That is the question... most KINGS and elite ask themselves.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:30 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
The God who "rules" via fear?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


God doesn't rule through fear he rules though love, it's satan who rule uses fear lies and deception
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30443981


Well said. Bowman is clearly talking about satan pretending to be god.
BOWMAN

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12/21/2012 12:30 PM

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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


He did not. Logics fail. The divine cannot degenerate, unlike His creation given away to humans:

And God saw that it was good. Then God said, Let us make man in our image and

let them rule … Genesis 1:26
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26268975


Yes.

Sadly, a lot of people speak about things which they do not know because they do not care enough to educate themselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


Choosing to believe something is education?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


If a person is not insane, usually the more they're educated on a subject, the more they understand it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


That would mean the more belief entrenched someone is, the more insane they are. Because beliefs are limiting and are often clung to because they bring comfort (more often than not of the false variety).

It would also mean that a person who has little beliefs would not be so limited and would be more open to learning about this creation as it is and in real time.


------

Last Edited by halman on 12/21/2012 12:31 PM
"And I understood that in an age where there was so much ego, because of the camera, that it was very important to look for that kind of player, ... I began to look for the kind of player that doesn't need his ego fed by stardom, but will do what he's supposed to do because he knows the game and loves the game, and will do the job the right way even if someone else gets the glory." ~ Bill Belichick

H&W P401 Recip./Parson's Turbine Cold Start

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Make Good Pitches

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

The Real You

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
anon
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12/21/2012 12:32 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
"Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'"

If by that you mean the Creator of Heaven and Earth,
Yahweh, you are in big trouble, because when you die,
you will stand before Him.

I can see that now, "Uhh, I know I've never been a
"fan" of yours, but...."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8977874


I think the point of the original idea was that this Yahweh thing is not actually any kind of creator god at all, but a misleading demon that holds the ignorant in thrall for its own pleasure. So really no one is in any trouble for not being its fan. It uses people who threaten violence to others to maintain its following. It also induces its followers to vociferously reject learning and light, because the light of knowledge reaches into the darkness of ignorance in which the demon followers find their comfort.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30560491


DING DING DING! YOU HAVE IT EXACTLY RIGHT!
alien16ohyeah
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:38 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...

I don't believe in this kind of story because veridical info could be a lie. In other words, just because someone reports that they saw a shoe on the roof of a building when they floated above it, does not make it TRUE. It could be someone telling a lie, trying to make a quick buck by selling a book or something like that. If someone says they talked to or saw a dead relative during a NDE, they were obviously NOT DEAD.

The brain dies AFTER death. Before that time, powerful chemicals are released during these stressful conditions. The people are dreaming. I dreamed that a field in the back of my house was filled with beautiful horses last night. Was this true? Of course not. But it seemed very real in my dream.

I don't believe every story told to me. I don't believe in those television psychics who talk to dead people. I don't believe the stories of people who remember past lives. I don't believe in those ghost hunting stories you hear about. And I don't believe in the stories of people who have had NDEs. If you think this is veridical information, you are wrong. It could be proved to be nothing but a lie. RIGHT?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I understand your state of mind. But have you not heard of people being pronounced dead and then later coming back to life? And these same people later recounting how their souls left their bodies and they being able to see their dead body and all things around it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185

Yes, I have heard of those stories, of course. I have heard the stories of people who come in contact with ghosts. I have heard the stories of people who contact the spirits of dead people and tell their loved ones messages from beyond. I have heard stories of people who remember their past lives and know the people who used to be their family members. I have heard the stories of people who have been probed by aliens.

Now...do I believe all these stories? NO, I don't. You can pick and choose what stories you want to believe, but this does not make them true. I don't know anyone personally that died and floated above their body. If I did, maybe I might believe this story a little more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So the only possible explanation is that they're lying?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185

Some of them may be telling lies to sell a book. Others could have had an NDE and thought it was real. But there is scientific evidence that proves that the brain releases powerful chemicals that make a person feel as if they are experiencing something that may not be real. I don't think they are telling lies but I don't necessarily think that what they experienced was real.

In the same way, let me ask you a question. If a person explains that they had a past life and if that person goes to a town and remembers his past relatives names, do you think he/she was telling lies? Do you believe this story? If not, why not? This is pretty good evidence that the story is true. How could a person know the names of their relatives from a past life?

Or if a television psychic tells a person that they heard a message from a dead loved one, and if that person tells them something that no one knew but them, do you naturally believe this kind of story? IF not, why not?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:40 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
"Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'"

If by that you mean the Creator of Heaven and Earth,
Yahweh, you are in big trouble, because when you die,
you will stand before Him.

I can see that now, "Uhh, I know I've never been a
"fan" of yours, but...."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8977874


I think the point of the original idea was that this Yahweh thing is not actually any kind of creator god at all, but a misleading demon that holds the ignorant in thrall for its own pleasure. So really no one is in any trouble for not being its fan. It uses people who threaten violence to others to maintain its following. It also induces its followers to vociferously reject learning and light, because the light of knowledge reaches into the darkness of ignorance in which the demon followers find their comfort.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30560491


DING DING DING! YOU HAVE IT EXACTLY RIGHT!
alien16ohyeah
 Quoting: anon 27344983


And it killed its own son because it hated the humans that it created in the first place. It used the idea of human blood sacrifice to appease itself. But then you have to add the fact that God is Jesus and they are one. If this makes sense to someone, please explain it to me.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:42 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


Yes.

Sadly, a lot of people speak about things which they do not know because they do not care enough to educate themselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


Choosing to believe something is education?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


If a person is not insane, usually the more they're educated on a subject, the more they understand it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


That would mean the more belief entrenched someone is, the more insane they are. Because beliefs are limiting and are often clung to because they bring comfort (more often than not of the false variety).

It would also mean that a person who has little beliefs would not be so limited and would be more open to learning about this creation as it is and in real time.


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN



There is two ways a person can grow. Spiritually good, or spiritually evil.

I do understand that there are many people whose belief in the Lord is quite shallow. Christ even talks about this. And perhaps that is because they were raised to believe, but actually have hardly ever had a real connection or understanding of the true message.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:46 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...

I think you are wrong. From what I have read, each person that has an NDE sees something completely different from another person. It is like a DREAM. This is not evidence that this happened, any more than a dream would be considered veridical evidence.

There are many more people who have died and have seen nothing. Where are all these people you are talking about? I certainly haven't heard about them. I have heard MORE people talk about the fact that they remember past lives. I have heard MORE people talk about the fact that they were abducted by UFOs.

If you want to believe in these stories, that's fine. But there is not any proof that these stories happened. Even if something like this happened to you, you could not possibly know if this was real or your brain playing tricks on you.

People who do acid have powerful trips that seem real, but it is the BRAIN playing tricks on the person. Maybe the brain, when it is traumatized, releases chemicals that make a person feel this is something more than a dream? I don't know for sure, but I know better than to believe something just because someone says it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I think you are wrong. From what I have read, each person that has an NDE sees something completely different from another person. It is like a DREAM. This is not evidence that this happened, any more than a dream would be considered veridical evidence.

You haven't read enough NDEs. If the NDE does not contain veridical info, than yes, one may equate it to a dream.

But, as already stated, I specifically stated, NDEs that contain veridical info. Also, if you read enough NDEs, you would see that many (not all) but many do indeed see the exact same thing. For example, while in heaven, there's been multiple cases, of people all reporting to see flowers singing praises, and in particular to God.

If you want to believe in these stories, that's fine. But there is not any proof that these stories happened. Even if something like this happened to you, you could not possibly know if this was real or your brain playing tricks on you.

As already stated, if the NDE contains veridical info, this now becomes impossible that this is merely your brain playing tricks on you.

People who do acid have powerful trips that seem real, but it is the BRAIN playing tricks on the person. Maybe the brain, when it is traumatized, releases chemicals that make a person feel this is something more than a dream? I don't know for sure, but I know better than to believe something just because someone says it.

Again, if the NDE contains veridical, it's now impossible to say your brain was merely playing tricks on you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Name just one case in which a person had an NDE that could not have been just a lie that they told to sell a book or to feel important or to advance a cause? Give me one example of an NDE that happened to someone that couldn't be proven to be a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


There's a good one from a book.

But let me first ask, so you if read something from a book, you automatically dismiss as a lie, without any evidence?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


I would believe something written in a book IF, and this is a big IF, that story told in the book could not possibly be a lie. If the story has proof that could not possibly be a lie, then I would have to believe it. But if you are going to tell me that a person saw a shoe on a roof that no one knew was there, for example, then NO. That is not proof of anything. It could just be a story that someone made up. And maybe the person that verifies the evidence of said shoe on roof is in on it. Maybe they get a portion of the profits from the book. I am very skeptical of crazy stories that support a cause.
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12/21/2012 12:47 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...


I understand your state of mind. But have you not heard of people being pronounced dead and then later coming back to life? And these same people later recounting how their souls left their bodies and they being able to see their dead body and all things around it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185

Yes, I have heard of those stories, of course. I have heard the stories of people who come in contact with ghosts. I have heard the stories of people who contact the spirits of dead people and tell their loved ones messages from beyond. I have heard stories of people who remember their past lives and know the people who used to be their family members. I have heard the stories of people who have been probed by aliens.

Now...do I believe all these stories? NO, I don't. You can pick and choose what stories you want to believe, but this does not make them true. I don't know anyone personally that died and floated above their body. If I did, maybe I might believe this story a little more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So the only possible explanation is that they're lying?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185

Some of them may be telling lies to sell a book. Others could have had an NDE and thought it was real. But there is scientific evidence that proves that the brain releases powerful chemicals that make a person feel as if they are experiencing something that may not be real. I don't think they are telling lies but I don't necessarily think that what they experienced was real.

In the same way, let me ask you a question. If a person explains that they had a past life and if that person goes to a town and remembers his past relatives names, do you think he/she was telling lies? Do you believe this story? If not, why not? This is pretty good evidence that the story is true. How could a person know the names of their relatives from a past life?

Or if a television psychic tells a person that they heard a message from a dead loved one, and if that person tells them something that no one knew but them, do you naturally believe this kind of story? IF not, why not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Well I'm going to be straight forward. Reincarnation is real. I will not tell you how I know this, but it is.

Let me ask you this, what will make you believe that Christ and the Lord exists?
Luke25

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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Jesus and God have the same will. If you like or love Jesus, you'd love the Father as well. Read the scriptures and pray for discernment. You'll get it if you put forth an honest effort.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:53 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...

Yes, I have heard of those stories, of course. I have heard the stories of people who come in contact with ghosts. I have heard the stories of people who contact the spirits of dead people and tell their loved ones messages from beyond. I have heard stories of people who remember their past lives and know the people who used to be their family members. I have heard the stories of people who have been probed by aliens.

Now...do I believe all these stories? NO, I don't. You can pick and choose what stories you want to believe, but this does not make them true. I don't know anyone personally that died and floated above their body. If I did, maybe I might believe this story a little more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So the only possible explanation is that they're lying?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185

Some of them may be telling lies to sell a book. Others could have had an NDE and thought it was real. But there is scientific evidence that proves that the brain releases powerful chemicals that make a person feel as if they are experiencing something that may not be real. I don't think they are telling lies but I don't necessarily think that what they experienced was real.

In the same way, let me ask you a question. If a person explains that they had a past life and if that person goes to a town and remembers his past relatives names, do you think he/she was telling lies? Do you believe this story? If not, why not? This is pretty good evidence that the story is true. How could a person know the names of their relatives from a past life?

Or if a television psychic tells a person that they heard a message from a dead loved one, and if that person tells them something that no one knew but them, do you naturally believe this kind of story? IF not, why not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Well I'm going to be straight forward. Reincarnation is real. I will not tell you how I know this, but it is.

Let me ask you this, what will make you believe that Christ and the Lord exists?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


The answer to that is simple, seeing them in person. I do not believe in invisible and imaginary deities. Maybe Allah is the real God? How would I know? Or maybe the real God is not written about in any book? Again, there is no way to know these things without experiencing them up front and in person. Until that time, I do not believe.

You say reincarnation is real. Many Christians would just laugh at that statement. I don't find that any more unbelievable than the stuff they believe in. But I am more interested in proof. If you have no proof for what you believe, WHY would you WANT to believe it? That is baffling to me.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 12:55 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
"Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'"

If by that you mean the Creator of Heaven and Earth,
Yahweh, you are in big trouble, because when you die,
you will stand before Him.

I can see that now, "Uhh, I know I've never been a
"fan" of yours, but...."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8977874


I think the point of the original idea was that this Yahweh thing is not actually any kind of creator god at all, but a misleading demon that holds the ignorant in thrall for its own pleasure. So really no one is in any trouble for not being its fan. It uses people who threaten violence to others to maintain its following. It also induces its followers to vociferously reject learning and light, because the light of knowledge reaches into the darkness of ignorance in which the demon followers find their comfort.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30560491


DING DING DING! YOU HAVE IT EXACTLY RIGHT!
alien16ohyeah
 Quoting: anon 27344983


And it killed its own son because it hated the humans that it created in the first place. It used the idea of human blood sacrifice to appease itself. But then you have to add the fact that God is Jesus and they are one. If this makes sense to someone, please explain it to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


You cannot actually know that it killed its own son. The only "evidence" are words written by humans with an agenda.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:00 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Jesus and God have the same will. If you like or love Jesus, you'd love the Father as well. Read the scriptures and pray for discernment. You'll get it if you put forth an honest effort.
 Quoting: Luke25

Or perhaps you could read the Bible and "love" Satan. I always tend to fall for the characters that are the underdogs. Satan is the underdog in that book. And how many people did SATAN kill? I think he asked God for permission to kill Job's family and then he murdered those 10 people. Did he kill anyone else that I forgot to mention?

How many people did God kill in the Bible? I think it is thousands upon thousands. He killed all the firstborn CHILDREN in Egypt. Why didn't he just kill the Pharaoh? If God was a GOOD God, he would have found another way. He wouldn't have picked on kids. And he killed 42 kids who made fun of one of his prophets. They called him bald or something. Would you kill 42 kids if they mentioned your bald head?? WHy not? The God you worship did. God killed thousands of people because David did a census, completely senseless killing by this God that you "love." And I know why.

You selectively read the Bible and come up with your own definition of God. And surprisingly you will find that YOUR God is remarkably like you. In fact, your God likes everything you like and your God disapproves of everything that you disapprove of. In fact, if you look a little closer, you will discover that the God you worship is YOU.
You only worship a fake God that masquerades as you, you know nothing about the real character of God from the Bible.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:01 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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I think you are wrong. From what I have read, each person that has an NDE sees something completely different from another person. It is like a DREAM. This is not evidence that this happened, any more than a dream would be considered veridical evidence.

You haven't read enough NDEs. If the NDE does not contain veridical info, than yes, one may equate it to a dream.

But, as already stated, I specifically stated, NDEs that contain veridical info. Also, if you read enough NDEs, you would see that many (not all) but many do indeed see the exact same thing. For example, while in heaven, there's been multiple cases, of people all reporting to see flowers singing praises, and in particular to God.

If you want to believe in these stories, that's fine. But there is not any proof that these stories happened. Even if something like this happened to you, you could not possibly know if this was real or your brain playing tricks on you.

As already stated, if the NDE contains veridical info, this now becomes impossible that this is merely your brain playing tricks on you.

People who do acid have powerful trips that seem real, but it is the BRAIN playing tricks on the person. Maybe the brain, when it is traumatized, releases chemicals that make a person feel this is something more than a dream? I don't know for sure, but I know better than to believe something just because someone says it.

Again, if the NDE contains veridical, it's now impossible to say your brain was merely playing tricks on you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Name just one case in which a person had an NDE that could not have been just a lie that they told to sell a book or to feel important or to advance a cause? Give me one example of an NDE that happened to someone that couldn't be proven to be a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


There's a good one from a book.

But let me first ask, so you if read something from a book, you automatically dismiss as a lie, without any evidence?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


I would believe something written in a book IF, and this is a big IF, that story told in the book could not possibly be a lie. If the story has proof that could not possibly be a lie, then I would have to believe it. But if you are going to tell me that a person saw a shoe on a roof that no one knew was there, for example, then NO. That is not proof of anything. It could just be a story that someone made up. And maybe the person that verifies the evidence of said shoe on roof is in on it. Maybe they get a portion of the profits from the book. I am very skeptical of crazy stories that support a cause.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Here's a good case. This involves a little girl, who went to heaven. Here she saw many deceased. Including two people who were murdered.

Now, after returning to her body, she named the boy, how he was killed in details, even gave information about this boy's family members, and the exact number of siblings the boy had(including the sex of the sibling).

She also identified another boy. And the exact murder weapon that was used. This was verified to be true. This information wasn't known to the family members.

She also affirmed that her grandmother had a miscarriage. The grandmother never revealed this information to her.

The family then had to do their own research, finding old newspapers, to verify the information.

Here's the book.
[link to www.amazon.com]

Also the girl fell down a slide, she stated angels caught her. Her grandfather, who's an engineer, stated as she was falling off the slide, her body stopped in midair and began floating downwards.

Importantly, there's many other cases, of people seeing the exact same thing as the girl, which further corroborates her account. And again, there's still many other types of evidences, not merely NDEs, that even further verifies her account.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:02 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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So the only possible explanation is that they're lying?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185

Some of them may be telling lies to sell a book. Others could have had an NDE and thought it was real. But there is scientific evidence that proves that the brain releases powerful chemicals that make a person feel as if they are experiencing something that may not be real. I don't think they are telling lies but I don't necessarily think that what they experienced was real.

In the same way, let me ask you a question. If a person explains that they had a past life and if that person goes to a town and remembers his past relatives names, do you think he/she was telling lies? Do you believe this story? If not, why not? This is pretty good evidence that the story is true. How could a person know the names of their relatives from a past life?

Or if a television psychic tells a person that they heard a message from a dead loved one, and if that person tells them something that no one knew but them, do you naturally believe this kind of story? IF not, why not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Well I'm going to be straight forward. Reincarnation is real. I will not tell you how I know this, but it is.

Let me ask you this, what will make you believe that Christ and the Lord exists?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


The answer to that is simple, seeing them in person. I do not believe in invisible and imaginary deities. Maybe Allah is the real God? How would I know? Or maybe the real God is not written about in any book? Again, there is no way to know these things without experiencing them up front and in person. Until that time, I do not believe.

You say reincarnation is real. Many Christians would just laugh at that statement. I don't find that any more unbelievable than the stuff they believe in. But I am more interested in proof. If you have no proof for what you believe, WHY would you WANT to believe it? That is baffling to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


What you believe is up to you. But the truth will always be the same.

With your logic, that seeing is believing, I assume you don't believe that the moon landings were real, dinosaurs were real, humans evolved from apes, etc, right?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:04 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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I think the point of the original idea was that this Yahweh thing is not actually any kind of creator god at all, but a misleading demon that holds the ignorant in thrall for its own pleasure. So really no one is in any trouble for not being its fan. It uses people who threaten violence to others to maintain its following. It also induces its followers to vociferously reject learning and light, because the light of knowledge reaches into the darkness of ignorance in which the demon followers find their comfort.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30560491


DING DING DING! YOU HAVE IT EXACTLY RIGHT!
alien16ohyeah
 Quoting: anon 27344983


And it killed its own son because it hated the humans that it created in the first place. It used the idea of human blood sacrifice to appease itself. But then you have to add the fact that God is Jesus and they are one. If this makes sense to someone, please explain it to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


You cannot actually know that it killed its own son. The only "evidence" are words written by humans with an agenda.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15782324

Dahhh, I'm an atheist. I don't believe any of the words written in that book, except for the talking donkey. I kinda liked that story because I always wanted to have a conversation with a horse. So I CHOOSE to believe that a donkey had a conversation with a human and he used proper language. There might be a couple of other stories that I choose to believe. It is so much fun to pick and choose the stories you like.

And I do that with fairy tales too. There is no evidence that Jack and Jill climbed up that hill, but I choose to believe it. I also think that Alice in Wonderland is a TRUE story. How about you?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:08 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
...

Some of them may be telling lies to sell a book. Others could have had an NDE and thought it was real. But there is scientific evidence that proves that the brain releases powerful chemicals that make a person feel as if they are experiencing something that may not be real. I don't think they are telling lies but I don't necessarily think that what they experienced was real.

In the same way, let me ask you a question. If a person explains that they had a past life and if that person goes to a town and remembers his past relatives names, do you think he/she was telling lies? Do you believe this story? If not, why not? This is pretty good evidence that the story is true. How could a person know the names of their relatives from a past life?

Or if a television psychic tells a person that they heard a message from a dead loved one, and if that person tells them something that no one knew but them, do you naturally believe this kind of story? IF not, why not?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Well I'm going to be straight forward. Reincarnation is real. I will not tell you how I know this, but it is.

Let me ask you this, what will make you believe that Christ and the Lord exists?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


The answer to that is simple, seeing them in person. I do not believe in invisible and imaginary deities. Maybe Allah is the real God? How would I know? Or maybe the real God is not written about in any book? Again, there is no way to know these things without experiencing them up front and in person. Until that time, I do not believe.

You say reincarnation is real. Many Christians would just laugh at that statement. I don't find that any more unbelievable than the stuff they believe in. But I am more interested in proof. If you have no proof for what you believe, WHY would you WANT to believe it? That is baffling to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


What you believe is up to you. But the truth will always be the same.

With your logic, that seeing is believing, I assume you don't believe that the moon landings were real, dinosaurs were real, humans evolved from apes, etc, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you. It is all a choice. What you choose to believe is up to you.

I do see evidence in fossils and bones and I do believe information taught to me by very intelligent men and women. I tend to distrust aging men in suits who sell you a story that sounds wonderful and then ask you to give them 10 percent of your salary. But that's just me.
BOWMAN

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12/21/2012 01:12 PM

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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Well I'm going to be straight forward. Reincarnation is real. I will not tell you how I know this, but it is.

Let me ask you this, what will make you believe that Christ and the Lord exists?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


The answer to that is simple, seeing them in person. I do not believe in invisible and imaginary deities. Maybe Allah is the real God? How would I know? Or maybe the real God is not written about in any book? Again, there is no way to know these things without experiencing them up front and in person. Until that time, I do not believe.

You say reincarnation is real. Many Christians would just laugh at that statement. I don't find that any more unbelievable than the stuff they believe in. But I am more interested in proof. If you have no proof for what you believe, WHY would you WANT to believe it? That is baffling to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


What you believe is up to you. But the truth will always be the same.

With your logic, that seeing is believing, I assume you don't believe that the moon landings were real, dinosaurs were real, humans evolved from apes, etc, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you. It is all a choice. What you choose to believe is up to you.

I do see evidence in fossils and bones and I do believe information taught to me by very intelligent men and women. I tend to distrust aging men in suits who sell you a story that sounds wonderful and then ask you to give them 10 percent of your salary. But that's just me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


See.

Scientists are the contemporary counterpart to priests. : )

Just be careful about the subjective way they choose to stitch together their "fossil evidence" story.

There are other ways to look at it. ohyeah


------
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Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:13 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Well I'm going to be straight forward. Reincarnation is real. I will not tell you how I know this, but it is.

Let me ask you this, what will make you believe that Christ and the Lord exists?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


The answer to that is simple, seeing them in person. I do not believe in invisible and imaginary deities. Maybe Allah is the real God? How would I know? Or maybe the real God is not written about in any book? Again, there is no way to know these things without experiencing them up front and in person. Until that time, I do not believe.

You say reincarnation is real. Many Christians would just laugh at that statement. I don't find that any more unbelievable than the stuff they believe in. But I am more interested in proof. If you have no proof for what you believe, WHY would you WANT to believe it? That is baffling to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


What you believe is up to you. But the truth will always be the same.

With your logic, that seeing is believing, I assume you don't believe that the moon landings were real, dinosaurs were real, humans evolved from apes, etc, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Also remember, evolutionists believe that life originated from inorganic matter (abiogenesis), there's zero proof of this.

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