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Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:14 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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DING DING DING! YOU HAVE IT EXACTLY RIGHT!
alien16ohyeah
 Quoting: anon 27344983


And it killed its own son because it hated the humans that it created in the first place. It used the idea of human blood sacrifice to appease itself. But then you have to add the fact that God is Jesus and they are one. If this makes sense to someone, please explain it to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


You cannot actually know that it killed its own son. The only "evidence" are words written by humans with an agenda.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15782324

Dahhh, I'm an atheist. I don't believe any of the words written in that book, except for the talking donkey. I kinda liked that story because I always wanted to have a conversation with a horse. So I CHOOSE to believe that a donkey had a conversation with a human and he used proper language. There might be a couple of other stories that I choose to believe. It is so much fun to pick and choose the stories you like.

And I do that with fairy tales too. There is no evidence that Jack and Jill climbed up that hill, but I choose to believe it. I also think that Alice in Wonderland is a TRUE story. How about you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814

If you believe that Alice in Wonderland is a true story, then you probably realize that the God of Abraham is really a metaphor for the Red Queen.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:15 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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And this is where your logic is ever so backwards, my friend. I was raised in religion (18 years of attempted brainwashing), and I have ALWAYS felt this way - even as a very small child, before I was even in school or ever influenced by your "magical", "evil" TPTB. I was always afraid of, and completely flabbergasted at the completely idiotic beliefs of the adults surrounding me. And I still am.

I know that you really want to believe that I'm just a product of the "magical", "evil" TPTB's "magical", "evil" programming, but unfortunately for you and the rest of the psycho, scripture-spewing brainwashed adult population, it is the exact opposite that is the real truth. Your religion has been created by your "magical", "evil" TPTB to control you, and they have done a bang-up job. Really.

You people also just HAVE to believe in "magical", "satanic", "evil", "scary" monsters, because you believe in childish fairytale boogie-men who are trying to turn you away from the childish fairytale sky goon father-figure. WTF? You are adults, right? Really?

Scary, indeed.

rant
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


...


And this is where your logic is ever so backwards, my friend. I was raised in religion (18 years of attempted brainwashing), and I have ALWAYS felt this way - even as a very small child, before I was even in school or ever influenced by your "magical", "evil" TPTB. I was always afraid of, and completely flabbergasted at the completely idiotic beliefs of the adults surrounding me. And I still am.

I know that you really want to believe that I'm just a product of the "magical", "evil" TPTB's "magical", "evil" programming, but unfortunately for you and the rest of the psycho, scripture-spewing brainwashed adult population, it is the exact opposite that is the real truth. Your religion has been created by your "magical", "evil" TPTB to control you, and they have done a bang-up job. Really.

You people also just HAVE to believe in "magical", "satanic", "evil", "scary" monsters, because you believe in childish fairytale boogie-men who are trying to turn you away from the childish fairytale sky goon father-figure. WTF? You are adults, right? Really?

Scary, indeed.

rant
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


So you don't believe that evil or good is real?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


Of course I believe in evil and good. What I don't believe in are childish fairytale boogie-men and childish fairy tale sky goon father-figures. You don't need those characters to believe in the principles. But your brainwashers need you to think so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


You're being quite disrespectful. What proof do you have to conclude that Christ or the Lord is not real?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


I don't believe I'm being disrespectful. It's just a fairytale that I don't believe in, and you do. That scares me.

Your Jesus and Lord nonsense is just as real as the rest of ancient mythology. It's all the same story, over and over, just different names attached for cultural/regional relevance. That is all. But you will adamantly argue that the Greek (Egyptian, etc.) mythology is simply nonsense, all the while defending your particular flavor of the "magic" god & "magic" son myth. It's really quite pathetic.

And you can't prove that your bible god and your bible jesus are real simply because they're in the bible, UNLESS you allow me to use the same mentality to prove that Zeus and Hercules (or any other endless combinations of "magic" god fathers, and "magic" son/saviors) are REAL because they also exist in some ancient script.

It just sickens me how many grown adults spew this utter nonsense as reality, and reject the EXACT same stories as fictitious "mythology".

Now quickly go praise your "magical" sky god and hope that my words don't corrupt your purified heart, thereby damning you to an eternity of hellfire and torment by the "magical" boogie-man.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:15 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Name just one case in which a person had an NDE that could not have been just a lie that they told to sell a book or to feel important or to advance a cause? Give me one example of an NDE that happened to someone that couldn't be proven to be a lie.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


There's a good one from a book.

But let me first ask, so you if read something from a book, you automatically dismiss as a lie, without any evidence?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


I would believe something written in a book IF, and this is a big IF, that story told in the book could not possibly be a lie. If the story has proof that could not possibly be a lie, then I would have to believe it. But if you are going to tell me that a person saw a shoe on a roof that no one knew was there, for example, then NO. That is not proof of anything. It could just be a story that someone made up. And maybe the person that verifies the evidence of said shoe on roof is in on it. Maybe they get a portion of the profits from the book. I am very skeptical of crazy stories that support a cause.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Here's a good case. This involves a little girl, who went to heaven. Here she saw many deceased. Including two people who were murdered.

Now, after returning to her body, she named the boy, how he was killed in details, even gave information about this boy's family members, and the exact number of siblings the boy had(including the sex of the sibling).

She also identified another boy. And the exact murder weapon that was used. This was verified to be true. This information wasn't known to the family members.

She also affirmed that her grandmother had a miscarriage. The grandmother never revealed this information to her.

The family then had to do their own research, finding old newspapers, to verify the information.

Here's the book.
[link to www.amazon.com]

Also the girl fell down a slide, she stated angels caught her. Her grandfather, who's an engineer, stated as she was falling off the slide, her body stopped in midair and began floating downwards.

Importantly, there's many other cases, of people seeing the exact same thing as the girl, which further corroborates her account. And again, there's still many other types of evidences, not merely NDEs, that even further verifies her account.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Okay, but you missed my point. I don't believe that this story actually happened. There is a story about a little boy who went to heaven and sat on Jesus' lap. I don't believe that either and that book was sold in the millions.

If you don't actually know this girl and her family, how do you know that their story is true. Could there simply be someone with an overactive imagination that took parts of that story and ran with it? Could they have added a lot of this stuff to the story to make it seem more real?

Do you believe in EVERY story you hear? Do you believe in those stories of UFO abductions? Who do you think creates crop circles? You CHOOSE the stories you want to believe. I would not believe a story like the one you told me unless I knew the actual family in person. Do you understand?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:16 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
Try reading the Atra Hasis epic...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30320213


A quick wiki synopsis and all i can say is thank you. THIS is the kind of thing im after, intriguing and exciting and im ready for wherever it may lead.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 570175


2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Judethz
Israel is Eternal

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12/21/2012 01:17 PM

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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
The God who "rules" via fear?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


judethcflo9 Don't knock it, fear of the Lord has it's honorable place in the scheme of things.

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.

Pro 15:33 The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Isa 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, [and] strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD [is] his treasure.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:18 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Well I'm going to be straight forward. Reincarnation is real. I will not tell you how I know this, but it is.

Let me ask you this, what will make you believe that Christ and the Lord exists?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


The answer to that is simple, seeing them in person. I do not believe in invisible and imaginary deities. Maybe Allah is the real God? How would I know? Or maybe the real God is not written about in any book? Again, there is no way to know these things without experiencing them up front and in person. Until that time, I do not believe.

You say reincarnation is real. Many Christians would just laugh at that statement. I don't find that any more unbelievable than the stuff they believe in. But I am more interested in proof. If you have no proof for what you believe, WHY would you WANT to believe it? That is baffling to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


What you believe is up to you. But the truth will always be the same.

With your logic, that seeing is believing, I assume you don't believe that the moon landings were real, dinosaurs were real, humans evolved from apes, etc, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you. It is all a choice. What you choose to believe is up to you.

I do see evidence in fossils and bones and I do believe information taught to me by very intelligent men and women. I tend to distrust aging men in suits who sell you a story that sounds wonderful and then ask you to give them 10 percent of your salary. But that's just me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So there is no possibility whatsoever that these very intelligent men and women are wrong? How do you know that the dinosaur fossils weren't made in a lab to support an agenda? Have you yourself actually analysed the fossils and/or dug them up from the soil?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:18 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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And it killed its own son because it hated the humans that it created in the first place. It used the idea of human blood sacrifice to appease itself. But then you have to add the fact that God is Jesus and they are one. If this makes sense to someone, please explain it to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


You cannot actually know that it killed its own son. The only "evidence" are words written by humans with an agenda.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15782324

Dahhh, I'm an atheist. I don't believe any of the words written in that book, except for the talking donkey. I kinda liked that story because I always wanted to have a conversation with a horse. So I CHOOSE to believe that a donkey had a conversation with a human and he used proper language. There might be a couple of other stories that I choose to believe. It is so much fun to pick and choose the stories you like.

And I do that with fairy tales too. There is no evidence that Jack and Jill climbed up that hill, but I choose to believe it. I also think that Alice in Wonderland is a TRUE story. How about you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814

If you believe that Alice in Wonderland is a true story, then you probably realize that the God of Abraham is really a metaphor for the Red Queen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1494743


LOL, I didn't know that God was gay.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:18 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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...


So you don't believe that evil or good is real?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


Of course I believe in evil and good. What I don't believe in are childish fairytale boogie-men and childish fairy tale sky goon father-figures. You don't need those characters to believe in the principles. But your brainwashers need you to think so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


You're being quite disrespectful. What proof do you have to conclude that Christ or the Lord is not real?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30525185


I don't believe I'm being disrespectful. It's just a fairytale that I don't believe in, and you do. That scares me.

Your Jesus and Lord nonsense is just as real as the rest of ancient mythology. It's all the same story, over and over, just different names attached for cultural/regional relevance. That is all. But you will adamantly argue that the Greek (Egyptian, etc.) mythology is simply nonsense, all the while defending your particular flavor of the "magic" god & "magic" son myth. It's really quite pathetic.

And you can't prove that your bible god and your bible jesus are real simply because they're in the bible, UNLESS you allow me to use the same mentality to prove that Zeus and Hercules (or any other endless combinations of "magic" god fathers, and "magic" son/saviors) are REAL because they also exist in some ancient script.

It just sickens me how many grown adults spew this utter nonsense as reality, and reject the EXACT same stories as fictitious "mythology".

Now quickly go praise your "magical" sky god and hope that my words don't corrupt your purified heart, thereby damning you to an eternity of hellfire and torment by the "magical" boogie-man.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21495729


Ok, so what is real to you?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:19 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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The answer to that is simple, seeing them in person. I do not believe in invisible and imaginary deities. Maybe Allah is the real God? How would I know? Or maybe the real God is not written about in any book? Again, there is no way to know these things without experiencing them up front and in person. Until that time, I do not believe.

You say reincarnation is real. Many Christians would just laugh at that statement. I don't find that any more unbelievable than the stuff they believe in. But I am more interested in proof. If you have no proof for what you believe, WHY would you WANT to believe it? That is baffling to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


What you believe is up to you. But the truth will always be the same.

With your logic, that seeing is believing, I assume you don't believe that the moon landings were real, dinosaurs were real, humans evolved from apes, etc, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Also remember, evolutionists believe that life originated from inorganic matter (abiogenesis), there's zero proof of this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


That is not strictly true. It is entirely possible that all matter is an expression of the one life. It is also entirely possible to hypothesize a Creator God that set all in motion and then let it run according to His rules. There is not one single existential theory that is adhered to by all people who see the evidence for evolutionary processes.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:19 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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There's a good one from a book.

But let me first ask, so you if read something from a book, you automatically dismiss as a lie, without any evidence?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


I would believe something written in a book IF, and this is a big IF, that story told in the book could not possibly be a lie. If the story has proof that could not possibly be a lie, then I would have to believe it. But if you are going to tell me that a person saw a shoe on a roof that no one knew was there, for example, then NO. That is not proof of anything. It could just be a story that someone made up. And maybe the person that verifies the evidence of said shoe on roof is in on it. Maybe they get a portion of the profits from the book. I am very skeptical of crazy stories that support a cause.


Here's a good case. This involves a little girl, who went to heaven. Here she saw many deceased. Including two people who were murdered.

Now, after returning to her body, she named the boy, how he was killed in details, even gave information about this boy's family members, and the exact number of siblings the boy had(including the sex of the sibling).

She also identified another boy. And the exact murder weapon that was used. This was verified to be true. This information wasn't known to the family members.

She also affirmed that her grandmother had a miscarriage. The grandmother never revealed this information to her.

The family then had to do their own research, finding old newspapers, to verify the information.

Here's the book.
[link to www.amazon.com]

Also the girl fell down a slide, she stated angels caught her. Her grandfather, who's an engineer, stated as she was falling off the slide, her body stopped in midair and began floating downwards.

Importantly, there's many other cases, of people seeing the exact same thing as the girl, which further corroborates her account. And again, there's still many other
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814
f evidences, not merely NDEs, that even further verifies her account.


Okay, but you missed my point. I don't believe that this story actually happened. There is a story about a little boy who went to heaven and sat on Jesus' lap. I don't believe that either and that book was sold in the millions.

If you don't actually know this girl and her family, how do you know that their story is true. Could there simply be someone with an overactive imagination that took parts of that story and ran with it? Could they have added a lot of this stuff to the story to make it seem more real?

Do you believe in EVERY story you hear? Do you believe in those stories of UFO abductions? Who do you think creates crop circles? You CHOOSE the stories you want to believe. I would not believe a story like the one you told me unless I knew the actual family in person. Do you understand?


This is why, I believe that many times, one should put their beliefs on a scale.

For example, with a case like this, don't believe it 100% or don't reject it 100%, without evidence.

And as already stated, there's many other cases that corroborates her account, and still many other types of evidences not merely NDEs, that further verifies her account.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093
then 100% proof? No, but it gives very strong weight to the account.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:20 PM
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You cannot actually know that it killed its own son. The only "evidence" are words written by humans with an agenda.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15782324

Dahhh, I'm an atheist. I don't believe any of the words written in that book, except for the talking donkey. I kinda liked that story because I always wanted to have a conversation with a horse. So I CHOOSE to believe that a donkey had a conversation with a human and he used proper language. There might be a couple of other stories that I choose to believe. It is so much fun to pick and choose the stories you like.

And I do that with fairy tales too. There is no evidence that Jack and Jill climbed up that hill, but I choose to believe it. I also think that Alice in Wonderland is a TRUE story. How about you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814

If you believe that Alice in Wonderland is a true story, then you probably realize that the God of Abraham is really a metaphor for the Red Queen.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1494743


LOL, I didn't know that God was gay.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Bloody and capricious
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:21 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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What you believe is up to you. But the truth will always be the same.

With your logic, that seeing is believing, I assume you don't believe that the moon landings were real, dinosaurs were real, humans evolved from apes, etc, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Also remember, evolutionists believe that life originated from inorganic matter (abiogenesis), there's zero proof of this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


That is not strictly true. It is entirely possible that all matter is an expression of the one life. It is also entirely possible to hypothesize a Creator God that set all in motion and then let it run according to His rules. There is not one single existential theory that is adhered to by all people who see the evidence for evolutionary processes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1494743


Yes I know this. But I'm stating this in general, and in particular to the other poster, who I specifically replied to and who is an atheist.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:22 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
The God who "rules" via fear?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


:judethc::flo9: Don't knock it, fear of the Lord has it's honorable place in the scheme of things.

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.

Pro 15:33 The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Isa 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, [and] strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD [is] his treasure.

 Quoting: Judethz


So I can completely understand how you can fear God. That is a given. Anyone would fear a God who would send someone to hell for the finite sins of one lifetime.

What I don't understand is how you can love this God? Do you not care about people who are born in other countries where they are not taught about Bible God? I am sure you believe that the only way to heaven is a belief in Jesus. But what if you were born before Jesus even existed, as millions of people were? What happened to the American Indians who died without Jesus?

Do you even care or are you only selfishly thinking of yourself? You feel you made the correct choice and that makes you so cocky and so sure of yourself. But what if you are wrong? What if YOU chose the wrong God? Your arrogance is appalling. Of course, you will just vomit out some scripture verse instead of being honest. But I KNOW that you don't really LOVE God. You fear God but you DO NOT love him. If you say you do, you are a liar.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:24 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Also remember, evolutionists believe that life originated from inorganic matter (abiogenesis), there's zero proof of this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


That is not strictly true. It is entirely possible that all matter is an expression of the one life. It is also entirely possible to hypothesize a Creator God that set all in motion and then let it run according to His rules. There is not one single existential theory that is adhered to by all people who see the evidence for evolutionary processes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1494743


Yes I know this. But I'm stating this in general, and in particular to the other poster, who I specifically replied to and who is an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


There is about as much evidence for the theory of evolution as there is for the theory of gravity. Go take a college course in evolution. Then discuss your doubts with your college professor. Creationism is not taught in college for a reason.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:26 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
The God who "rules" via fear?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


:judethc::flo9: Don't knock it, fear of the Lord has it's honorable place in the scheme of things.

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.

Pro 15:33 The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Isa 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, [and] strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD [is] his treasure.

 Quoting: Judethz


You fear God but you DO NOT love him. If you say you do, you are a liar.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Very inaccurate. You have a lot to learn.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Also remember, evolutionists believe that life originated from inorganic matter (abiogenesis), there's zero proof of this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


That is not strictly true. It is entirely possible that all matter is an expression of the one life. It is also entirely possible to hypothesize a Creator God that set all in motion and then let it run according to His rules. There is not one single existential theory that is adhered to by all people who see the evidence for evolutionary processes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1494743


Yes I know this. But I'm stating this in general, and in particular to the other poster, who I specifically replied to and who is an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Then you should carefully qualify "evolutionists" in your statement.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Also remember, evolutionists believe that life originated from inorganic matter (abiogenesis), there's zero proof of this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


That is not strictly true. It is entirely possible that all matter is an expression of the one life. It is also entirely possible to hypothesize a Creator God that set all in motion and then let it run according to His rules. There is not one single existential theory that is adhered to by all people who see the evidence for evolutionary processes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1494743


Yes I know this. But I'm stating this in general, and in particular to the other poster, who I specifically replied to and who is an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


There is about as much evidence for the theory of evolution as there is for the theory of gravity. Go take a college course in evolution. Then discuss your doubts with your college professor. Creationism is not taught in college for a reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


What reason is that?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:28 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Also remember, evolutionists believe that life originated from inorganic matter (abiogenesis), there's zero proof of this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


That is not strictly true. It is entirely possible that all matter is an expression of the one life. It is also entirely possible to hypothesize a Creator God that set all in motion and then let it run according to His rules. There is not one single existential theory that is adhered to by all people who see the evidence for evolutionary processes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1494743


Yes I know this. But I'm stating this in general, and in particular to the other poster, who I specifically replied to and who is an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


There is about as much evidence for the theory of evolution as there is for the theory of gravity. Go take a college course in evolution. Then discuss your doubts with your college professor. Creationism is not taught in college for a reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


I specifically stated that there's no proof of abiogenesis, that life came from inorganic matter, not evolution in general. And yes I had science classes at my university.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:29 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
The God who "rules" via fear?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


:judethc::flo9: Don't knock it, fear of the Lord has it's honorable place in the scheme of things.

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.

Pro 15:33 The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Isa 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, [and] strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD [is] his treasure.

 Quoting: Judethz


So I can completely understand how you can fear God. That is a given. Anyone would fear a God who would send someone to hell for the finite sins of one lifetime.

What I don't understand is how you can love this God? Do you not care about people who are born in other countries where they are not taught about Bible God? I am sure you believe that the only way to heaven is a belief in Jesus. But what if you were born before Jesus even existed, as millions of people were? What happened to the American Indians who died without Jesus?

Do you even care or are you only selfishly thinking of yourself? You feel you made the correct choice and that makes you so cocky and so sure of yourself. But what if you are wrong? What if YOU chose the wrong God? Your arrogance is appalling. Of course, you will just vomit out some scripture verse instead of being honest. But I KNOW that you don't really LOVE God. You fear God but you DO NOT love him. If you say you do, you are a liar.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


You seem to be suggesting a kind of Stockholm syndrome.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:30 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Also remember, evolutionists believe that life originated from inorganic matter (abiogenesis), there's zero proof of this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


That is not strictly true. It is entirely possible that all matter is an expression of the one life. It is also entirely possible to hypothesize a Creator God that set all in motion and then let it run according to His rules. There is not one single existential theory that is adhered to by all people who see the evidence for evolutionary processes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1494743


Yes I know this. But I'm stating this in general, and in particular to the other poster, who I specifically replied to and who is an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


Then you should carefully qualify "evolutionists" in your statement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1494743


What you described, is what many creationists, who also believe in both God and evolution.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:31 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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The answer to that is simple, seeing them in person. I do not believe in invisible and imaginary deities. Maybe Allah is the real God? How would I know? Or maybe the real God is not written about in any book? Again, there is no way to know these things without experiencing them up front and in person. Until that time, I do not believe.

You say reincarnation is real. Many Christians would just laugh at that statement. I don't find that any more unbelievable than the stuff they believe in. But I am more interested in proof. If you have no proof for what you believe, WHY would you WANT to believe it? That is baffling to me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


What you believe is up to you. But the truth will always be the same.

With your logic, that seeing is believing, I assume you don't believe that the moon landings were real, dinosaurs were real, humans evolved from apes, etc, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you. It is all a choice. What you choose to believe is up to you.

I do see evidence in fossils and bones and I do believe information taught to me by very intelligent men and women. I tend to distrust aging men in suits who sell you a story that sounds wonderful and then ask you to give them 10 percent of your salary. But that's just me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So there is no possibility whatsoever that these very intelligent men and women are wrong? How do you know that the dinosaur fossils weren't made in a lab to support an agenda? Have you yourself actually analysed the fossils and/or dug them up from the soil?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774

The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. My son took a college course in evolution and it is complicated and difficult to understand. Frankly, I am not intelligent enough to understand most of it. BUT....I do trust the scientists who put all this effort into finding the truth of this. And there is evidence in the form of fossils. And 93 percent of all scientists are atheists because they know that evolution is real.

What I can't believe in is myths. I don't believe there is some invisible man in the sky who can see me and who knows what I'm thinking. I stopped believing in Santa Claus when I was six. I don't believe in a mythical place called heaven where I will live forever. Even the thought of living forever is laughable. What does one do for a zillion, zillion years without being so bored they would like to die? And they can't die, so that would be hell. I am bored in this short life so I would not want to live forever.

I believe in things that are real and true. The garbage in the Bible, the men who live in whales and walk on water and raise people from the dead, etc., is the stuff of fantasy and it is for children. If you want to believe it, more power to you. And I can understand why you would because I suppose it is a nice thought to think that someone up there cares, but I only value truth.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:37 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
The God who "rules" via fear?


------
 Quoting: BOWMAN


:judethc::flo9: Don't knock it, fear of the Lord has it's honorable place in the scheme of things.

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.

Pro 15:33 The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Isa 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, [and] strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD [is] his treasure.

 Quoting: Judethz


You fear God but you DO NOT love him. If you say you do, you are a liar.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Very inaccurate. You have a lot to learn.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


Then prove it. Prove to me that you "love" a God who kills children for fun, who makes a woman who is raped marry her rapist, who approves of slavery, that demands that you follow all kind of laws and commandments and sends you to hell if you don't, who killed a man who picked up some sticks on Sunday, who tells you to KILL every child who disobeys their parents.

If you LOVE this God, you are a liar because that is impossible, unless you are selfishly thinking of only YOU. If you think this God loves you, how would you ever know? You could be a Pharisee, a son of Satan, and you would never know it. How could you trust this God? Answer that, which you won't, of course. Christians never answer any questions because they are not allowed to ask them. They just give you these short, caustic answers that prove they are self-righteous and full of pride.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:46 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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What you believe is up to you. But the truth will always be the same.

With your logic, that seeing is believing, I assume you don't believe that the moon landings were real, dinosaurs were real, humans evolved from apes, etc, right?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you. It is all a choice. What you choose to believe is up to you.

I do see evidence in fossils and bones and I do believe information taught to me by very intelligent men and women. I tend to distrust aging men in suits who sell you a story that sounds wonderful and then ask you to give them 10 percent of your salary. But that's just me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So there is no possibility whatsoever that these very intelligent men and women are wrong? How do you know that the dinosaur fossils weren't made in a lab to support an agenda? Have you yourself actually analysed the fossils and/or dug them up from the soil?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774

The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. My son took a college course in evolution and it is complicated and difficult to understand. Frankly, I am not intelligent enough to understand most of it. BUT....I do trust the scientists who put all this effort into finding the truth of this. And there is evidence in the form of fossils. And 93 percent of all scientists are atheists because they know that evolution is real.

What I can't believe in is myths. I don't believe there is some invisible man in the sky who can see me and who knows what I'm thinking. I stopped believing in Santa Claus when I was six. I don't believe in a mythical place called heaven where I will live forever. Even the thought of living forever is laughable. What does one do for a zillion, zillion years without being so bored they would like to die? And they can't die, so that would be hell. I am bored in this short life so I would not want to live forever.

I believe in things that are real and true. The garbage in the Bible, the men who live in whales and walk on water and raise people from the dead, etc., is the stuff of fantasy and it is for children. If you want to believe it, more power to you. And I can understand why you would because I suppose it is a nice thought to think that someone up there cares, but I only value truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Ok. I'm a biochemist (scientist) and I will know that there is no doubt that Christ and the Lord is real.

You are quite silly fully believing in scientific theories. Most of the scientists that create them don't even fully believe in them - that's why they're called theories.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:48 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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:judethc::flo9: Don't knock it, fear of the Lord has it's honorable place in the scheme of things.

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.

Psa 111:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.

Pro 15:33 The fear of the LORD [is] the instruction of wisdom; and before honour [is] humility.

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Isa 33:6 And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times, [and] strength of salvation: the fear of the LORD [is] his treasure.

 Quoting: Judethz


You fear God but you DO NOT love him. If you say you do, you are a liar.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Very inaccurate. You have a lot to learn.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


Then prove it. Prove to me that you "love" a God who kills children for fun, who makes a woman who is raped marry her rapist, who approves of slavery, that demands that you follow all kind of laws and commandments and sends you to hell if you don't, who killed a man who picked up some sticks on Sunday, who tells you to KILL every child who disobeys their parents.

If you LOVE this God, you are a liar because that is impossible, unless you are selfishly thinking of only YOU. If you think this God loves you, how would you ever know? You could be a Pharisee, a son of Satan, and you would never know it. How could you trust this God? Answer that, which you won't, of course. Christians never answer any questions because they are not allowed to ask them. They just give you these short, caustic answers that prove they are self-righteous and full of pride.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Again, inaccurate. Too much harsh judgement.

I could teach you a lot, but only if you humble yourself.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:53 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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That is not strictly true. It is entirely possible that all matter is an expression of the one life. It is also entirely possible to hypothesize a Creator God that set all in motion and then let it run according to His rules. There is not one single existential theory that is adhered to by all people who see the evidence for evolutionary processes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1494743


Yes I know this. But I'm stating this in general, and in particular to the other poster, who I specifically replied to and who is an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


There is about as much evidence for the theory of evolution as there is for the theory of gravity. Go take a college course in evolution. Then discuss your doubts with your college professor. Creationism is not taught in college for a reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


What reason is that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


Maybe because there is no evidence for the fact that a man existed who had no creator himself and he created everything out of nothing? And he made a man out of some dust. And then he is a cold blooded killing machine who demands that you worship him? Is that reason enough?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:55 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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Yes I know this. But I'm stating this in general, and in particular to the other poster, who I specifically replied to and who is an atheist.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30531093


There is about as much evidence for the theory of evolution as there is for the theory of gravity. Go take a college course in evolution. Then discuss your doubts with your college professor. Creationism is not taught in college for a reason.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


What reason is that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


Maybe because there is no evidence for the fact that a man existed who had no creator himself and he created everything out of nothing? And he made a man out of some dust. And then he is a cold blooded killing machine who demands that you worship him? Is that reason enough?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So until evidence is found, a thing doesn't or never existed?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 01:57 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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I don't know if I choose to believe the moon landing thing or not. I think it might have happened. I choose to believe that dinosaurs walked the earth because of the bones that I see in museums. I choose to believe that evolution occurred because of fossil evidence and because many very intelligent scientists believe this theory. I could be wrong, but so could you. It is all a choice. What you choose to believe is up to you.

I do see evidence in fossils and bones and I do believe information taught to me by very intelligent men and women. I tend to distrust aging men in suits who sell you a story that sounds wonderful and then ask you to give them 10 percent of your salary. But that's just me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


So there is no possibility whatsoever that these very intelligent men and women are wrong? How do you know that the dinosaur fossils weren't made in a lab to support an agenda? Have you yourself actually analysed the fossils and/or dug them up from the soil?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774

The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. My son took a college course in evolution and it is complicated and difficult to understand. Frankly, I am not intelligent enough to understand most of it. BUT....I do trust the scientists who put all this effort into finding the truth of this. And there is evidence in the form of fossils. And 93 percent of all scientists are atheists because they know that evolution is real.

What I can't believe in is myths. I don't believe there is some invisible man in the sky who can see me and who knows what I'm thinking. I stopped believing in Santa Claus when I was six. I don't believe in a mythical place called heaven where I will live forever. Even the thought of living forever is laughable. What does one do for a zillion, zillion years without being so bored they would like to die? And they can't die, so that would be hell. I am bored in this short life so I would not want to live forever.

I believe in things that are real and true. The garbage in the Bible, the men who live in whales and walk on water and raise people from the dead, etc., is the stuff of fantasy and it is for children. If you want to believe it, more power to you. And I can understand why you would because I suppose it is a nice thought to think that someone up there cares, but I only value truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Ok. I'm a biochemist (scientist) and I will know that there is no doubt that Christ and the Lord is real.

You are quite silly fully believing in scientific theories. Most of the scientists that create them don't even fully believe in them - that's why they're called theories.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


If you are a biochemist, which I doubt, then you would have to have some PROOF for what you believe. Start with Jesus. There is absolutely zero evidence that, a man named Jesus who was born of a virgin and was raised from the dead, existed. As someone else noted, there is more evidence for the existence of Hercules. There were numerous myths about rising and dying savior gods long before the Jesus myth came to pass.

So if you DO believe in this, why? I would really like to know. Why do you want to believe a story that has no proof? There has to be a reason. Look at your own heart and tell me why? I believe in the "theory" of gravity and the "theory" of evolution. IF you were really a scientist, you would know that theories are seen as facts. Scientific theories are not just believed because it is convenient to believe them.
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12/21/2012 01:59 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..


Do you not care about people who are born in other countries where they are not taught about Bible God? I am sure you believe that the only way to heaven is a belief in Jesus. But what if you were born before Jesus even existed, as millions of people were? What happened to the American Indians who died without Jesus?

Do you even care or are you only selfishly thinking of yourself? You feel you made the correct choice and that makes you so cocky and so sure of yourself. But what if you are wrong? What if YOU chose the wrong God? Your arrogance is appalling. Of course, you will just vomit out some scripture verse instead of being honest. But I KNOW that you don't really LOVE God. You fear God but you DO NOT love him. If you say you do, you are a liar.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Dude, it is the same fear that we had as children toward our parents and we still loved them. Stop talking so childish and irresponsible. You know what we mean, you just need to justify your own choice not to believe. You are a rebellious son!!! But, even you were covered by the blood of Christ for He died for everyone and all their sins, except that of disbelief, for how can He petition on your behalf if you do not believe in Him? Because God is real and Christ is there to defend us when we come against God's HOLY law. You are a sinner! I am a sinner! And YOU are the liar if you state differently.

God is all powerful and will NOT allow any person to die without having been made aware of His existence. This includes ALL mankind before Christ died. Think about it, the Native peoples DID worship one god, just as the Muslims do, and many other cultures. God did come to them as they sought Him out in their way, but only if the actually sought Him out. God tells us that we have no excuse not to and that He is FOUND in all that we see around us and this is how He convicted the faith and hearts of the cultures around the world and you know what, THEY DID seek Him out for these very reasons and God CAN and DID save them, He is after all, GOD and you are the foolish one who would think otherwise:

Romans 1:20
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.


Matthew 24:14
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.


Isaiah 55:11
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
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12/21/2012 01:59 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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You fear God but you DO NOT love him. If you say you do, you are a liar.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Very inaccurate. You have a lot to learn.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


Then prove it. Prove to me that you "love" a God who kills children for fun, who makes a woman who is raped marry her rapist, who approves of slavery, that demands that you follow all kind of laws and commandments and sends you to hell if you don't, who killed a man who picked up some sticks on Sunday, who tells you to KILL every child who disobeys their parents.

If you LOVE this God, you are a liar because that is impossible, unless you are selfishly thinking of only YOU. If you think this God loves you, how would you ever know? You could be a Pharisee, a son of Satan, and you would never know it. How could you trust this God? Answer that, which you won't, of course. Christians never answer any questions because they are not allowed to ask them. They just give you these short, caustic answers that prove they are self-righteous and full of pride.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Again, inaccurate. Too much harsh judgement.

I could teach you a lot, but only if you humble yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


"... but only if you humble yourself." Translation: Stop questioning and blindly accept.

You people are all just sheep who need a shepherd. That is all. No one will ever win this ridiculous religion argument. Some people just need to believe in this stuff. Others don't. No one will EVER convince the other. Ever, ever.
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12/21/2012 02:04 PM
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Re: Not a fan of the Abrahamic 'god'..
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You fear God but you DO NOT love him. If you say you do, you are a liar.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Very inaccurate. You have a lot to learn.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774


Then prove it. Prove to me that you "love" a God who kills children for fun, who makes a woman who is raped marry her rapist, who approves of slavery, that demands that you follow all kind of laws and commandments and sends you to hell if you don't, who killed a man who picked up some sticks on Sunday, who tells you to KILL every child who disobeys their parents.

If you LOVE this God, you are a liar because that is impossible, unless you are selfishly thinking of only YOU. If you think this God loves you, how would you ever know? You could be a Pharisee, a son of Satan, and you would never know it. How could you trust this God? Answer that, which you won't, of course. Christians never answer any questions because they are not allowed to ask them. They just give you these short, caustic answers that prove they are self-righteous and full of pride.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 20657814


Again, inaccurate. Too much harsh judgement.

I could teach you a lot, but only if you humble yourself.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30518774

I am not judging you but more like judging God and wondering why you would believe in a God who would commit such acts? To me, it is like worshiping Hitler.

If you believe in hell, then you do believe that God sends innocent people to be tormented forever. By that, I mean, you have to worship Jesus or you are condemned to hell. Many people do not wish to do this because they were taught something else as children. Or maybe people like me find the story nonsensical. But should we be tormented forever for not buying this story? Why do you believe this story? I would be interested to know.

You are judging me for not being humble but I don't see it that way. I don't believe in God because I love people. I could not reconcile myself to love a God that torments people forever. I feel this takes a humble heart, to put others before myself, to give up on a belief in a God who is cruel and heartless. Why would you even want to commit yourself to this God? As I see it, you could never, in a million years, trust him. He killed babies throughout the Bible. This makes no sense to me and it has nothing to do with me not being humble.

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