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The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past

 
Maya 432

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12/21/2012 07:13 PM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
40 1-star ratings.

the people have spoken.

Op is officially a doucebag
Music is Magic
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 07:19 PM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
"There is thus no constitutional protection whatsoever for the semiautomatic rifle that killed the kids in Newtown."



The Second Amendment is a relic of the founding era more than two centuries ago. Its purpose is long past. As Justice John Paul Stevens argues persuasively, the amendment should not block the ability of society to keep itself safe through gun control legislation. That was never its intent. This amendment was about militias in the 1790s, and the fear of the anti-federalists of a federal army. Since that issue is long moot, we need not be governed in our national life by doctrines on now-extinct militias from the 18th century.


[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

This is an excellent article the explains the reasons the 2nd amendment was created, and how it's been used in the SCOTUS.


The purpose of the Second Amendment was to prevent the new Federal Government established in 1789 from disarming the state militias and replacing them with a Federal standing army. It was a concern that was relevant perhaps for a few years around the birth of the country. It is irrelevant today. Americans do not rely on state militias in 2012 for our freedom from the federal government.

Now is the time to establish new gun control laws and perhaps an all out ban on all automatic and semi automatic weapons.Ban guns to save kids
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Let me get this straight. You said the following without the additional bilge:

"The purpose of the Second Amendment was to prevent the new Federal Government...from disarming...the state(s)...and replacing...with a Federal standing army...Americans do not rely on state militias in 2012 for our freedom from the federal government." www.huffingtonpost.com

Based on the article, the founding fathers/framers of the country thought it was very necessary to establish a right that "shall not be infringed" to protect the citizens from a federal government. Please advise when did that expire or become irrelevant? I believe we have a standing federal army now more powerful than Jefferson, Franklin, Adams, Madison, etc. could ever conceive and no one in their right mind would dare stand against it. Are you saying the framers said I should be concerned about a standing federal army and federal government and it is such a concern to them that we should have never expiring right to state militias and armed citizens that will protect all citizens against it? If so, what has changed and what protects the average citizen in 2012 from the current federal army and government that concerned Jefferson and Co. so much?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 07:32 PM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
As long as there is a United States of America,
there will be a Constitution of the United States,

BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS A CREATION
OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES.


Why do you think oaths are not sworn to the
President of the United States?

Oaths are sworn to PRESERVE AND PROTECT
the CONSTITUTION!!!

There would have been NO CONSTITUTION without
the BILL OF RIGHTS, the first ten amandments.

The creation of the United States was
dead in the water, until the Bill of Rights
was added.


They are the ABSOLUTE FOUNDATION OF THE USA.

People who speak nonsense, such as the purpose of
the Constitution is past, don't have the foggiest
notion what they are saying.

The principals embodied in the Bill of Rights
will last as long as we do.


Darth Hitman

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12/21/2012 08:11 PM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
"There is thus no constitutional protection whatsoever for the semiautomatic rifle that killed the kids in Newtown."



The Second Amendment is a relic of the founding era more than two centuries ago. Its purpose is long past. As Justice John Paul Stevens argues persuasively, the amendment should not block the ability of society to keep itself safe through gun control legislation. That was never its intent. This amendment was about militias in the 1790s, and the fear of the anti-federalists of a federal army. Since that issue is long moot, we need not be governed in our national life by doctrines on now-extinct militias from the 18th century.


[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

This is an excellent article the explains the reasons the 2nd amendment was created, and how it's been used in the SCOTUS.


The purpose of the Second Amendment was to prevent the new Federal Government established in 1789 from disarming the state militias and replacing them with a Federal standing army. It was a concern that was relevant perhaps for a few years around the birth of the country. It is irrelevant today. Americans do not rely on state militias in 2012 for our freedom from the federal government.

Now is the time to establish new gun control laws and perhaps an all out ban on all automatic and semi automatic weapons.Ban guns to save kids
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


Okay...after they lay down all of their rifles. If one fails to lead by example the he should not be followed. INSTEAD, this is the state treating you as children, unable to take care of yourselves with their "Do as I say not as I do" bullshit. Are you a an adult capable of handling your own problems in this world, or are you a child sucking on your master's tit? DUDE, go back to the damn beach.
“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

Truth fears no questions. ~Unknown

“There is no such thing as a minor lapse of integrity” - Tom Peters
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2012 01:23 PM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
There are many on these boards, particularly our foreign friends who seem to think that the Bill of Rights resident within our Constitution are rights granted by the government to our people and, therefore, subject to modification.

The founders crafted this document and stated that these rights are granted by God to all men. The Bill of Rights does not grant our rights to us, it prevents the government from infringing upon rights, natural rights, already granted to us by God. The limitations on exercise of those rights is subject only to where exercising them infringes upon the same rights of another.

Today, we have a government that would like to convince its population that these rights are bad and will go to whatever lengths are necessary to manipulate public opinion to agree with their agenda.

About 30 years ago, I was involved in a school teachers strike in our community. I was with a small group of parents who went to the local high school to confront the participants in the negotiations because it had been dragging on and on. When I caught the union representative returning to the negotiations from a break, I demanded to know what he was doing about getting our children back in the classroom. He looked me square in the eyes and said, "We're going to do whatever we have to do to get what we want." The hair on the back of my neck stood up. I have never forgotten that and at that moment I understood how things really work.

In a radio interview some years back, Obama expressed his view that the rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights were "negative rights" because they only said what the government can't do, not what it must do. This interview can be found on youtube, at least it used to be there. This explains a lot about his beliefs and provides much basis for the events that are unfolding.
TrueLogic

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12/31/2012 02:15 AM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
Fact: If an Armed Staff Member is Present to Engage a Lunatic who comes to kill Children, It will Take his Focus off the Children, and force them to Focus their Aim on an Engaging Adult.

Fact: Two Adults Shooting at each other, is better than one Adult Shooting at Children until his Gun is Empty, with no intervention.

Fact: 1 or 2 Armed Staff Members could have saved Children's Lives at Sandy Hook Elementary. The Likelihood of this being True is very high.

Fact: If 10, or even 1 Child could still be with their Families this Holiday Season, it would be Worth Arming School Staff Members.

Challenge: Prove me Wrong... Present your Arguments, And get eaten alive with Reasoning, Compassion as a Parent, and Sheer Logic.

More People Die From Drunk Drivers Annually in the United States, than from Gun Related Crimes... Do we outlaw Motor Vehicles as Evil Things? No... That would be plain Stupid. Cars don't kill People... The Same is true with Firearms. Do you Blame the Car for losing a Loved one? Or the Criminal Driving the Car? Some People have no Reasoning Skills or Logic what so ever... And those People should not be allowed to make decisions for the rest of us.

Would you put off a Child's Protection Entirely to wait for Legislation or Constitutional Amendments? Or would you look for a more Immediate Solution, One That Affords them Some Protection Right Now?

If these Children were Killed with a Knife or a Bow... Should we then Outlaw all Steak Knives and Compound Bows? No... It would be the epidemy of Foolishness, and It avoids the Subject of Defending the Children entirely... And Makes Excuses for ones Personal Fear of a Knife, or a Bow.

Never having thought I would ever say it myself... I would Support my Son's School in Arming some Qualified Staff Members, to Protect Him and His Class Mates, Provided They were trusted in the Community, and I was Provided with Their Qualifications, and some Personal Background...

Given the Lunatics in Today's Society, what Parent wouldn't?

Some People in America have a more realistic sense of a Protection Mechanism for their Family Members than others in the U.S. ...And People in other Countries, where guns are not allowed, have difficulty in understanding this from an American Prospective.


It doesn't make either Party Wrong... It just means one is more prepared to face the Realities of the Life, and the Society we Live in Today.

We need to realize that the Ability of a Firearm to Save a Life, is Equal to it's innate Ability to take a Life.

Would you put off the Protection of Students, to wait for further Legislation or Constitutional Amendments? Or would you look for a more Immediate Solution? One That Affords them Some Protection, Right Now!?

I look at this from the Prospective of the Reality we live in Today. People can Argue the 2nd Amendment all they want... Or try to Burn it, and all that precedes it, or follows it... Or they can Argue new Legislation all they want, which I would fully support... But the Fact is, these things take Time, and our Children cannot afford to wait for such Arguments.

Arguing these things, and waiting on them, completely Ignores the 26 Victims of Sandy Hook Elementary, and their Families Loss... And it completely Ignores the Necessity for Protecting School Children RIGHT NOW, from a possible future threat.

The Fact is, we live in an almost fully Armed Society... A Society where, like it or not, People do exercise their 2nd Amendment Right... I'd like to believe most of those People Exercise that Right for the Proper Reason... But, that being said... Let's use the Second Amendment for something Good. Use it to Protect Children in Schools. Allow Teachers or Education Officials the opportunity to Exercise their Right to Keep and Bear Arms. We do it for Pilots... Why not Teachers?

It used to be Debated that Arming Air Marshals to Protect Passengers on Airplanes, would make flying the Friendly Skies more Dangerous... So My question to you is this:

We DID Arm Air Marshals on Airlines to Protect Passengers...

So why in the hell wouldn't we Arm School Staff to Afford School Children the same Degree of Protection?

Our State Run School System has a Duty to Protect Your Children and Mine... If they cannot Enforce their own Child Protection Act... Then Should Parents Sue the State if their Child is Killed by a Gunman on School Grounds? You Bet!

And ask yourselves how many of the Children's Parents from the Sandy Hook Shooting would Endorse Arming Teachers Today, After the loss of their Child...

Just food for thought.

David Thweatt, Superintendent of The Harrold Independent School District in Texas, has had Armed Teachers since 2007... Follow his Example, and like it or not, at least out of necessity, Consider Arming School Staff in your Local Area...

Here's the Link:
And thanks for your Time.

[link to www.wltx.com]
We were a Republic Once... What are we now?
TrueLogic

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12/31/2012 02:20 AM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
Are you From another Country? No Disrespect meant at all, but... If you are,

I wouldn't expect you to Understand our Constitution, or the Value we place upon our Liberties...

I wouldn't expect you to Understand Freedom or Liberty, when it is something that you yourself have never been allowed to have or experience...

Why didn't the Japanese invade the US mainland during WW2?

The Second Amendment... That's why.

Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto - “You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.”

And let's get something Straight...

The Second Amendment does not say "The Right of the Militia to keep and bear Arms shall not be Infringed"

Instead, it Acknowledges the necessity of the Militia, and Guarantees that:

"The Right of the People to keep and bear Arms, Shall not be infringed."
We were a Republic Once... What are we now?
TrueLogic

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12/31/2012 02:21 AM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
The Bill of Rights is not negotiable –

By Mike Adams
(Okay to reprint with Proper Credit to Author)
[link to www.naturalnews.com]

There is a destructive, delusional meme spreading like a virus among many misguided Americans. It pushes the idea that government can pick and choose which rights codified in the Bill of Rights it wishes to recognize or discard on any given day.

This delusion is predicated on the concept that if a popular majority can be emotionally whipped into a frenzy over one particular right, then that right can simply be discarded and stricken from the Bill of Rights.

But no such power exists to discard any portion of the Bill of Rights, at least not without proper ratification by three-fourths of the fifty states. There is no such power found solely in the federal government. There is no such power placed solely in the executive branch, nor in Congress, nor in the White House.

The Bill of Rights describes a set of individual rights and liberties which are not granted by government, but recognized as DIVINE rights given to use by our Creator. Because government never granted the rights in the first place, it has no authority to take them away.

“The Framers of the Bill of Rights did not purport to “create” rights. Rather, they designed the Bill of Rights to prohibit our Government from infringing rights and liberties presumed to be preexisting.” – William J Brennan Jr.

The individual liberties described in the Bill of Rights cannot be infringed, nor deleted, nor overridden by popular opinion… not even loudly screamed opinion. America is not a nation ruled by the tyranny of the mob. It isn’t even a democracy — it’s a republic, where certain inalienable rights describe the protection of each individual, even if that individual is the lone voice of sanity in a majority gone mad. The Bill of Rights protects individuals from the tyranny of mob rule — a phenomenon that routinely rears its head in any society where historical illiteracy is rampant and the masses are lulled into a state of complacency by charismatic but dishonest leaders.

It was the extended amendments attached to the Bill of Rights that outlawed slavery, guaranteeing individual freedom to those of African descent even in a time and place when the majority of voting citizens believed slavery was socially acceptable. And it was the Second Amendment that put firearms into the hands of those recently-freed slaves, ensuring that they could defend themselves against attackers of any color through the powerful expression of armed defense (aided by the laws of physics and certain materials from the table of elements, notably lead).

Another amendment beyond the Bill of Rights granted women equal voting rights in an age when the majority believed women should not be allowed to vote. It was the Bill of Rights that decriminalized prohibition, ending a dark era of mass criminalization of everyday citizens who suffered under the oppression of government law enforcement gone bad.

Yet today, incredibly, many African-Americans and women are actively assaulting the very document that first secured their own freedoms. They now wish to take their freedom and power and use it to enslave someone else by revoking other people’s rights under the Bill of Rights. This is the ultimate social betrayal, and it is a powerful demonstration of the principle that those who do not respect freedom for others do not deserve it for themselves.

The Second Amendment is not negotiable

The Right to Keep and Bear Arms — much like the Right of Free Speech — is not negotiable. Its protections are not subject to the whims of majority opinion, nor the screaming demands of hyperventilating media personalities. All the social media trolls and opinion writers in the world can comment all they want on the Second Amendment, yet the individual right to keep and bear arms remains immutable.

Just like the Bill of Rights, the Second Amendment is not negotiable. No Governor, Senator or President has any power whatsoever to banish the Second Amendment, and any who attempt to oppose it only brand themselves as criminal traitors to the United States of America. Any active effort to eradicate the Second Amendment outside of law — without going through the proper process of state ratification for Constitutional amendments — is, by definition, an act of sedition against the United States of America and its people.

Ironically, many who viciously attack the Second Amendment do so by invoking their free speech protections under the First Amendment. Yet they seem blind to the realization that the First Amendment itself is only made possible by the Second Amendment which balances power between the People and the government, ensuring that the individual right to bear arms serves as a check and balance against the monopoly of violence every government inherently seeks.

Disarmament of the populace is always the first step to depriving them of their civil rights and human rights. Without the right to bear arms, there is no right to free speech, no right to due process, no right to trial by jury and certainly no right to be secured against unreasonable search and seizure. A government with a monopoly of force is a government that respects no boundaries and honors no limits.

Grasping this point requires competent thinking, which is why so many who now flourish in America on the popularity of pop culture idiocy fail to understand it. It is intellectually lazy to blame gun rights for violence, requiring no depth of thought or reason. Only someone of higher awareness and possessing the aptitude for multi-layered thinking can realize the critical importance of distributed firepower in stopping government violence against the People. As Ron Paul recently said, “Government security is just another kind of violence.”

Ron Paul gets it. He understands that an imbalance of power in the hands of government inevitably leads to mass violence waged against the People. Those who are currently screaming for the population to be disarmed do not realize that in seeking to prevent one kind of violence (school shootings), they are unleashing a far more disastrous and horrifying violence by allowing the government to monopolize physical power over the citizens. This is a mistake that has been repeated throughout history, often at the cost of tens of millions of destroyed lives. Click here to watch my short video documentary that lays out these facts in more detail.

The Second Amendment was put in place precisely for the purpose of making sure that future Americans would not fall for the same mistake yet again. That’s why it is the second highest amendment, right after the right of free speech, indicating its crucial priority in the enumeration of sacred rights that must be protected at all costs.

The Bill of Rights does not require your endorsement

The validity of the Bill of Rights does not require your endorsement. In fact, it encourages tolerance of those with whom you disagree.

If you do not believe in the freedom of speech for those with whom you disagree, then you do not believe in it at all (a derivation of a quote from Noam Chomsky). If you do not believe in freedom of speech, then you do not believe in the Bill of Rights. And if you do not believe in the Bill of Rights, then you are not, at heart, an American. You are something else, something less evolved. Something archaic and outmoded. The Bill of Rights is the single most important milestone in the history of civilized society because it lays out, with near perfection, the divine principle of INDIVIDUAL rights and liberties that come directly from the Creator rather than from a “King” — also known as a dictator.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” – Theodore Roosevelt

Ratified in 1791, the Bill of Rights lifted human civilization out of the tar sands of tyranny and into the enlightenment of liberty. It was divinely inspired and stands eternal as the key milestone of human compassion, justice and equality. To oppose the Bill of Rights is to oppose human progress. That’s why the Bill of Rights is the single most progressive document that has ever been recognized by any nation.

“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.” – George Washington

Why the Bill of Rights extends through all time and innovation

Importantly, the rights described in the Bill of Rights extend through all time and cover all innovations and technological advances. It was not written to cover only those things that existed in 1791, but rather to serve as a template of liberty encompassing innovation, advancement and all future expressions of those rights, regardless of what devices or technologies may come into existence.

The Right to Free Speech, for example, does not merely protect speech written on scrolls or rolled out of a Gutenberg press. It covers all expressions of free speech, including speech expressed through devices that did not exist in the late 1700′s: e-books, websites, blogs, television programs, bumper stickers and more. This very website, Natural News is a pure expression of the First Amendment. It would seem foolish and wrongheaded to argue that the First Amendment only applied to the printing press of the day and not to modern-day websites or e-books, yet that is exactly what many misguided people argue today when they say the Second Amendment only applies to “Muskets and bayonets.”

The Second Amendment guarantees your right to keep and bear the firearms of your time. What are the firearms of our time? AR-15 rifles. 308 sniper rifles. 50 caliber Barretts. 12-gauge shotguns. Handguns with night sights and high-capacity magazines. Your right to own, carry, buy, sell and transfer these items is as solidly safeguarded as your right to free speech. The Bill of Rights is not negotiable.

Those who oppose the Bill of Rights are enemies of America

Some misguided, if not treasonous, U.S. Senators, lawmakers and public servants in the executive branch of government currently suffer under the dangerous misconception that the Bill of Rights only exists because they allow it to. They foolishly believe that they can selectively pick and choose which rights to nullify via new legislation or by the stroke of an executive pen. This delusion is not merely wrong-headed and arrogant, it poses a grave threat to the Republic and all its future generations.

Enemies of the Bill of Rights are enemies of America. Whether those enemies be found in the media, in Congress, in the Oval Office or on the streets of America, they are unworthy of being called “Americans” at all. Those who despise liberty do not deserve liberty. Those who deliberately and maliciously attack the Bill of Rights do not deserve the protections of the Bill of Rights. Those who despise the Constitution and its Bill of Rights are publicly indicating they would prefer to live as subjects, not Citizens.

I propose that any who attempt to denounce Bill of Rights protections for others must first surrender their own rights and freedoms. Do not speak of taking away my Second Amendment rights while you enjoy the protections of the First Amendment. Surrender all your rights and freedoms first, because only then have you achieved the necessary moral consistency from which you can demand others be deprived of their rights.

Relocate to North Korea, in other words, and become a subject of Kim Jong-un and then continue your assaults of the Bill of Rights as a Korean gulag blogger. Because only then will you know how much you have lost, and how much you should have valued the liberties you so carelessly abandoned.

The Bill of Rights is not negotiable. If you oppose it, (or Any Part of it), you betray not only yourself, but all Americans.
We were a Republic Once... What are we now?
TrueLogic

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12/31/2012 02:28 AM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
If you want to discuss Antiquated Amendments to the Constitution... I think you're confusing the Second Amendment with the 16th Amendment... ::Laugh::

You know... The one where Congress gave up their Constitutionally Given Duty, and Power, to Print and Coin Money... The Power that they Gave up, with every intent on Taking Back!? And now Can't...

Yeah... Let's Talk Relics, Shall we?

Oh sorry... That's another Thread isn't it?

::Snicker::
We were a Republic Once... What are we now?
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2012 02:35 AM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
"There is thus no constitutional protection whatsoever for the semiautomatic rifle that killed the kids in Newtown."



The Second Amendment is a relic of the founding era more than two centuries ago. Its purpose is long past. As Justice John Paul Stevens argues persuasively, the amendment should not block the ability of society to keep itself safe through gun control legislation. That was never its intent. This amendment was about militias in the 1790s, and the fear of the anti-federalists of a federal army. Since that issue is long moot, we need not be governed in our national life by doctrines on now-extinct militias from the 18th century.


[link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

This is an excellent article the explains the reasons the 2nd amendment was created, and how it's been used in the SCOTUS.


The purpose of the Second Amendment was to prevent the new Federal Government established in 1789 from disarming the state militias and replacing them with a Federal standing army. It was a concern that was relevant perhaps for a few years around the birth of the country. It is irrelevant today. Americans do not rely on state militias in 2012 for our freedom from the federal government.

Now is the time to establish new gun control laws and perhaps an all out ban on all automatic and semi automatic weapons.Ban guns to save kids
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29966199


STFU.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11815764
Anonymous Coward
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12/31/2012 02:39 AM
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Re: The Second Amendment is a Relic - Its Purpose is Long Past
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