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I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.

 
Guns n' God (redux)
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12/21/2012 04:48 PM
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I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
They had a whole week to prepare a response and the best they could come up with was to put a police officer in every single school in America?!

That was seriously one of the most asinine statements I have ever heard and embarrassed me to be a gun owner.

While I completely agreed with the part about better mental health screening, the damage was already done with the statement about armed guards in every school.

That plays right into the liberals' proclamations that no place is safe as long as citizens are allowed to own guns, not to mention the far that a police officer on duty in every school in America is completely unrealistic.

By making such a statement, LaPierre basically conceded that there is a problem with guns in America.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 04:50 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
surprise surprise

the NRA are in on it as well.

who'd have thought?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 05:05 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
www.gunowners.org
New Age Messiah

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12/21/2012 05:07 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
They had a whole week to prepare a response and the best they could come up with was to put a police officer in every single school in America?!

That was seriously one of the most asinine statements I have ever heard and embarrassed me to be a gun owner.

While I completely agreed with the part about better mental health screening, the damage was already done with the statement about armed guards in every school.

That plays right into the liberals' proclamations that no place is safe as long as citizens are allowed to own guns, not to mention the far that a police officer on duty in every school in America is completely unrealistic.

By making such a statement, LaPierre basically conceded that there is a problem with guns in America.
 Quoting: Guns n' God (redux)


It wouldn't be any more expensive that adding one teacher to every school.

The worst thing they did was buy into the media storyline surrounding the event, which has proven to be ridiculous.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 05:07 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
We all gonna need our guns. rockon
Sunyata

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12/21/2012 05:08 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
I'm gonna look into GOA.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 05:09 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
They should just have armed security guards in elementary schools, they already have cops in middle schools and high schools.
Sunyata

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12/21/2012 05:11 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
They should just have armed security guards in elementary schools, they already have cops in middle schools and high schools.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29006067


We should have armed guards everywhere. Then once we've accomplished that we're gonna need armed guards guarding the armed guards. Fuck it.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 05:16 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
Putting a cop in every school won't do any good. The people that go on these rampages don't care whether they live or die in most cases. One or two cops can't be everywhere at once. It only takes a few seconds for an individual to pull out a concealed weapon and start firing.

Another thing I don't understand, the pro-gun peoples support of this idea. Isn't one of the biggest fears for many of you a NWO type police state. So why in the hell would you support an idea that would bring us one step closer to this?
NOCTURNAL RAINBOWS

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12/21/2012 05:20 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
They should just have armed security guards in elementary schools, they already have cops in middle schools and high schools.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29006067


We should have armed guards everywhere. Then once we've accomplished that we're gonna need armed guards guarding the armed guards. Fuck it.
 Quoting: Sunyata


FUCK IT lets just make every man (mentally stable) in this country armed

5a

Last Edited by NOCTURNAL RAINBOWS on 12/21/2012 05:20 PM
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 05:21 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
Putting a cop in every school won't do any good. The people that go on these rampages don't care whether they live or die in most cases. One or two cops can't be everywhere at once. It only takes a few seconds for an individual to pull out a concealed weapon and start firing.

Another thing I don't understand, the pro-gun peoples support of this idea. Isn't one of the biggest fears for many of you a NWO type police state. So why in the hell would you support an idea that would bring us one step closer to this?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3168735


Exactly.

This was just effin stupid of them. Also, any school shooter coming in is already armed and ready.

Think anyone really has that good reaction time or if they do there are enough such guards for every single school?
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 05:22 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
I'm gonna look into GOA.
 Quoting: Sunyata


I'm re-joining this weekend.

cheers
JBG
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12/21/2012 05:22 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
I thought is was an Excellent response by the NRA - it forces the gun haters to 'leave the kids undefended'

And the guards in every school would like as not be civilian volunteers in many cases
ChipModerator
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12/21/2012 05:25 PM

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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
Yup. The NRA proposed a decent idea...but didn't even offer any rebuttal to the anti-gunner retards. If I was the NRA pres and some hecklers stood up talking smack...I'd let him or her speak. Then destroy their logic similar to the way we have done on GLP.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~Arthur C. Clarke

Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. ~Mark Twain

He's a nut-bag! Just because the fucker's got a library card doesn't make him Yoda! ~David Mills ~ Se7en

THE PLANET IS FINE! THE PEOPLE ARE FUCKED ~George Carlin RIP

every-citizen
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12/21/2012 05:27 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
TSA in every school.banana2
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 05:30 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
They had a whole week to prepare a response and the best they could come up with was to put a police officer in every single school in America?!

That was seriously one of the most asinine statements I have ever heard and embarrassed me to be a gun owner.

While I completely agreed with the part about better mental health screening, the damage was already done with the statement about armed guards in every school.

That plays right into the liberals' proclamations that no place is safe as long as citizens are allowed to own guns, not to mention the far that a police officer on duty in every school in America is completely unrealistic.

By making such a statement, LaPierre basically conceded that there is a problem with guns in America.
 Quoting: Guns n' God (redux)


Liberal shill.

You don't belong to the NRA. TURD.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 05:32 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
TSA in every school.banana2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6209063


so you want your children molested by TSA Goons.

arm the teachers is a great idea. The thugs won't be back talking or threatening the teachers anymore.LOL

Tyrone set down and shut your mouth our I will blow your balls off with my 44Magnum..LOL respect your teacher boy..
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 05:36 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
www.gunowners.org
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30549134


^^^^^
This. I threatened my husband until he quit that traitorous NRA.

NRA=Controlled opposition
That's what it is called.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 05:51 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
Well police watching EVERY KID as they grow up IN EVERY SCHOOL is a great way to teach them about "Indpendence" (Papers Please little kid!? You don't look like you go here and claiming you are coming in from recess won't work. Papers Please!!?) .... NOT

Might as well also add police, and screening, to the entance of every shopping mall and strip shopping area in the country (Papers Please!!?)

OH ... and then we will need to move the boundaries back from the door entrances to the parking area entrances, since they could start shooting before they even got inside. (Papers Please!!?)

Sheesh ...

The cost alone would crush some school districts that are already in financial trouble ... fire 50 teachers so you can hire 50 cops, WOW, isn't that a great idea for "education" (or maybe fire 80 teachers so you can hire 50 cops based upon the earnings difference between the two in some areas)

I hope the NRA isn't paying any of the people who came up with this hairbrained scheme ... even at a "Buck A Year" they would be grossly overpaid.
sodbust

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12/21/2012 05:52 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
I went to Westport High school in the inner city of Kansas City Mo back in the late 60s and early 70s.. We had 2 police armed at every door,, doing searches and had metal detectors..

Yet we had 1 shooting every week INSIDE our high school.. All the shootings at that time were between street gangs and not a general spray job like we see now days..

I felt safe while in class as all the teachers I knew packed heat..

Now its a gun free zone.. Another liberal joke,, thinking that a sign in the school door with a red gun and a red line across it will turn a person away..

Just like we can find and destroy all the guns in America.. and all the bad people will run too the police to turn in there gun..
Wake the fuck up.
Sodbust
Dream big,, its ones only chance
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12/21/2012 06:14 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
if a person is wearing as they supposedly have been, then what good is a cop going to do?


The cop will get killed and then there will be stories of an autistic kid killing a cop.
Guns n' God (redux) (OP)

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12/21/2012 06:19 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
They had a whole week to prepare a response and the best they could come up with was to put a police officer in every single school in America?!

That was seriously one of the most asinine statements I have ever heard and embarrassed me to be a gun owner.

While I completely agreed with the part about better mental health screening, the damage was already done with the statement about armed guards in every school.

That plays right into the liberals' proclamations that no place is safe as long as citizens are allowed to own guns, not to mention the far that a police officer on duty in every school in America is completely unrealistic.

By making such a statement, LaPierre basically conceded that there is a problem with guns in America.
 Quoting: Guns n' God (redux)


Liberal shill.

You don't belong to the NRA. TURD.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6209063


LIBERAL?! ARE YOU KIDDING?!

The NRA really dropped the ball today and played right into the liberal's hands!

By making a statement that police need to be in every school, they are enabling the left to respond with a statement such as "Even the NRA knows that shootings are out of control or why else would they call for so much security?"

As someone who has worked on campaigns and understands how PR works, what the NRA did today was an unmitigated disaster for their cause.

LaPierre and whoever is in charge of PR for the NRA should be forced to resign immediately.
Useless Cookie Eater

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12/21/2012 06:20 PM

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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
They should just have armed security guards in elementary schools, they already have cops in middle schools and high schools.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29006067


Hell....why not bring the TSA in too....right?


facism
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12/21/2012 06:27 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
Contrast this shit to Larry Pratt's slugfest with the CNN (s)Limey.

NRA members have been sold down a river for 50 goddamn years, when are they going to do something about it?
Evil_Twin

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12/21/2012 06:31 PM

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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
FUCK IT lets just make every man (mentally stable) in this country armed

5a
 Quoting: NOCTURNAL RAINBOWS


Every mentally stable man in this country is already armed.

Only a moron would depend on someone else to protect himself and his loved ones.
Hellbilly
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12/21/2012 06:32 PM

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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
FUCK IT lets just make every man (mentally stable) in this country armed

5a
 Quoting: NOCTURNAL RAINBOWS


Every mentally stable man in this country is already armed.

Only a moron would depend on someone else to protect himself and his loved ones.
 Quoting: Evil_Twin


rofl So true!!!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. ~Arthur C. Clarke

Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. ~Mark Twain

He's a nut-bag! Just because the fucker's got a library card doesn't make him Yoda! ~David Mills ~ Se7en

THE PLANET IS FINE! THE PEOPLE ARE FUCKED ~George Carlin RIP

every-citizen
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12/21/2012 06:33 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
www.gunowners.org
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30549134


THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^

clappa
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 06:44 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
Wow, never in my life, after all these years, did I ever think Guns would post the above words.

I am stupified, simply at a loss for words.

It really is the end of days, lol.
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12/21/2012 06:44 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
They had a whole week to prepare a response and the best they could come up with was to put a police officer in every single school in America?!

That was seriously one of the most asinine statements I have ever heard and embarrassed me to be a gun owner.

While I completely agreed with the part about better mental health screening, the damage was already done with the statement about armed guards in every school.

That plays right into the liberals' proclamations that no place is safe as long as citizens are allowed to own guns, not to mention the far that a police officer on duty in every school in America is completely unrealistic.

By making such a statement, LaPierre basically conceded that there is a problem with guns in America.
 Quoting: Guns n' God (redux)


It wouldn't be any more expensive that adding one teacher to every school.

The worst thing they did was buy into the media storyline surrounding the event, which has proven to be ridiculous.
 Quoting: New Age Messiah


With every school in America trying to reduce their budgets, and every state in the countries cutting funding to schools, you want to spend several billion dollars to put armed checkpoints in civilian facilities.

Why not spend that few billion on making a serious effort to take guns away from criminals and identifying and helping those with mental problems. Let's take the money we are spending on the war on drugs and spend it on taking guns from criminals too. I mean, it is not like we could be less successful at stamping out gun violence than we are in our war on drugs. While we are at it, let's take the billions of dollars we are spending dicking around in parts of the world no one gives a fuck about and spend that money on preventing gun crimes too. Dismantle Homeland Insecurity and Team Sex Assault too, take that money to spend on preventing gun violence too. Use all this money to fund stiffer penalties for every asshole who even thinks about using his gun unlawfully. Punish the shit out of the ones who aren't responsible enough to own guns, protect the ones who are.
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12/21/2012 06:51 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
They had a whole week to prepare a response and the best they could come up with was to put a police officer in every single school in America?!

That was seriously one of the most asinine statements I have ever heard and embarrassed me to be a gun owner.

While I completely agreed with the part about better mental health screening, the damage was already done with the statement about armed guards in every school.

That plays right into the liberals' proclamations that no place is safe as long as citizens are allowed to own guns, not to mention the far that a police officer on duty in every school in America is completely unrealistic.

By making such a statement, LaPierre basically conceded that there is a problem with guns in America.
 Quoting: Guns n' God (redux)


It wouldn't be any more expensive that adding one teacher to every school.

The worst thing they did was buy into the media storyline surrounding the event, which has proven to be ridiculous.
 Quoting: New Age Messiah


With every school in America trying to reduce their budgets, and every state in the countries cutting funding to schools, you want to spend several billion dollars to put armed checkpoints in civilian facilities.

Why not spend that few billion on making a serious effort to take guns away from criminals and identifying and helping those with mental problems. Let's take the money we are spending on the war on drugs and spend it on taking guns from criminals too. I mean, it is not like we could be less successful at stamping out gun violence than we are in our war on drugs. While we are at it, let's take the billions of dollars we are spending dicking around in parts of the world no one gives a fuck about and spend that money on preventing gun crimes too. Dismantle Homeland Insecurity and Team Sex Assault too, take that money to spend on preventing gun violence too. Use all this money to fund stiffer penalties for every asshole who even thinks about using his gun unlawfully. Punish the shit out of the ones who aren't responsible enough to own guns, protect the ones who are.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9664906


Well said, you could pass for a Canuck, lol.
Anonymous Coward
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12/21/2012 07:38 PM
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Re: I'm ending my membership in the NRA after today's debacle.
Yup. The NRA proposed a decent idea...but didn't even offer any rebuttal to the anti-gunner retards. If I was the NRA pres and some hecklers stood up talking smack...I'd let him or her speak. Then destroy their logic similar to the way we have done on GLP.
 Quoting: Chip


The danger there is that, if your "logic" was show to the public, most of them wouldn't agree with you. Here it's simple to make a statement, declare the other guy stupid and move on.

In real life, where people can keep talking it gets a lot harder.

In writing you can "win" an argument that uses logic against sentiment, but when a woman stands up crying about how many children were killed, that's harder to beat than you might think.

Almost anything you say that disagrees with her will make you, and your entire side, look like a-holes.


The important thing to remember is that both sides in this issue have good ideas and are essentially correct. Guns are dangerous. They also can be used to save lives.

If the bad guys didn't have certain weapons it would be harder for them to kill mass numbers of people. If the would be victims were armed they'd be able to defend themselves
.

It goes on and on in that manner. The failure to understand your opponent is one of the reasons that guns will be banned.

Now, I know that a lot of pro-gun people will have a problem with this, but that doesn't make it true and I'm not saying it to be insulting, simply to help them understand why they don't understand where the other side is coming from.

Liberal thinking is based in empathy for others.

Not self-sacrifice, not altruism, just the feeling that other people are real and valid individuals as a primary instruction for thought.


Conservative thinking is based in fear.

Not cowardice, not authoritarianism, not hatred or lack of empathy.

This fear dictates all of their actions however. They fear the government, so want guns to protect themselves. They fear having their religion thwarted, so hold to policies based on that. They fear economic damage, so don't want illegal immigrants. They fear crime, so want more guns, police and harder "by the book" judges.

(My point is that Conservatism is the party style of the fearful, even to the blustering to make it be NOT about fear that some will do in response to this. That's a mistake, and I'll explain why.)

You see, to stop the coming ban on guns, what's needed is for the argument to be focused on Empathy. You aren't arguing to show your own position, but to sway the minds of others.

Conservatives believe they are wining when they use fear based arguments, and think that this is logical, even though there is not greater logic to using fear than empathy. Their simply different.

(Bringing this back around now...)

So don't let them heckle and then "destroy" them with logic. Use empathy instead and don't presume your going to get it right for the individual you are speaking to at the moment.

(So don't empathize with them, that isn't the point! Show empathy for others and point out how your position will help more people in the long run.)

Use some catch phrases that will work!

"A well armed and trained person can defend others from harm." (The stress is on what the listener can do for others.)

Instead of,

"If a criminal comes for YOU, you'll want a gun!" (This is trying to influence the person using fear, which doesn't work as well on liberals. It can work, but it isn't their primary mode of thought.)


Or...

"Other people may not be as physically capable or even as mentally adept at handling others as you are. You wouldn't suggest that these people be harmed, just because a few bad individuals misuse a technology, would you?"

Again, the focus shifts from the self to "other". This doesn't have to make sense to you as a conservative, gun owner or voter. It makes sense to the people you need to win over to your side.

That's the important part.

*OK, there is another portion of the Conservative belief structure that I didn't go into, which is driven not by fear, but desire to maintain the current state of things. This isn't important to this issue however. Nor did I go into the motivation of Libertarians, who are not actually conservatives at all, but are actually driven by a sense of egotism.

None of these are bad however. Just different ways of handling the world.

Know yourself and your enemy and you will win all battles.

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