COMET ISON- The Nostradamus Comet At The Time Of The True Mayan Calendar End Date Of 12/16/13 (Something Wicked This Way Cometh!)

That really is a fine line. The OP came and gave some data and calculations that contradict scholars who have studied the Mayan culture in detail. So were suppose to believe the OP is correct and prove him wrong over those who have already done the work and the people who live there today? So they are all wrong as well? That makes absolutely no sense!

I for one thankyou OP for bringing the discrepancy to our attention

Peace

Thanks. It is a very simple calendar discrepancy that even a 7 year old can understand. Again, can anyone disprove my theory? I will be more than happy to admit I am wrong if someone can disprove it.

It has NOW been revealed!

Thread: Comet ISON C/2012 S1 is bolon yokte of the mayans

Thread: Get ready for a super comet

Thread: Daylight Comet coming SOON

Nostradamus

Quatrain II.46
After great misery for mankind an even greater one approaches, when the great cycle of the centuries is renewed. It will rain blood, milk, famine, war and disease. In the sky will be seen a fire, dragging a tail of sparks.

(When is the great cycle of centuries renewed as described above? Yup, Dec. 16th, 2013 of the Mayan Long Count calendar).

Comet ISON May Be Visible In The Daylight In 2013

"Comets are always cool, but seeing one during the daytime will be the first in my lifetime and in many people’s experience. Come next November, be on the lookout—both during the day and at night."

[link to www.cinemablend.com]

Quatrain II.41

The great star for seven days will burn, The cloud will cause two suns to appear: The big mastiff all night will howl, When the great pontiff changes countries.

[link to www.december212012.com]



Posted back in September when the comet was first announced.

Thread: Comet and Nostradamus

Posted back in September as well. Looks like many are seeing the connections!

[link to www.urbansurvival.com]

I just added the major extra dimension with the Mayan calendar truly ending and cycling back over on Dec. 16th, 2013.

Last Edited by Revelator Stargate on 01/05/2013 03:05 PM

I tell you OP, the game ISON.

Done some research of my own on this comet and especially the NAME..very interesting but not funny.

Looking forward to what you have unearthed..I do believe there is a correlation to the true galactic midnight. As Ursula would say..the dragons tail whips up a frenzy.

By the by, such an astronomic show weighs heavily on the psyche when, at a time of diminishing liberty, we are at witts end to remain sane.

No, no, and no.

My expertise is that I am pretty good at researching information and using multicontextual analysis.

I have also studied the Mayan calendar and read numerous books about 4-5 years ago related to it from Carl Calleman, John Major Jenkins, Geoff Stray, among others. I then used my own brain and researched the calendar myself.

I thought the whole Dec. 21st, 2012 was a deception. Hell, they made a Hollywood movie related to that date, so you just knew something was a little off.

I was intrigued by Calleman's research and the importance of the 13 Ahau Tzolkin end date. He had it at Oct. 28th, 2011, which was 13 Ahau. But I quickly realized that even his theory might be right in some ways, the date was off. So I am embarked on my own journey researching it and figuring out the numbers, which I will explain in more depth later.

Then to my amazement, I realized the Mayan calendar researchers included the Year 0 in their calculations, which they shouldn't have done, thus the calendar is off by a year, or 360 days according to the Mayan Long Count.

Last Edited by Revelator Stargate on 12/24/2012 11:03 PM

Thanks OP for unbanning me.

Here's the thing with the correlations that lead to Dec. or any other time in 2012. I will try to make it simple so that anyone can try to follow my logic, do the math, do the counting and disprove what I say. If someone can do that, I will admit that we are wrong.

1. The 13 baktun cycle is equal to 5200 x 360 days. The 360 day year is a vague year and since there are 365.25 days in a solar year, every year the solar calendar once you set the two in motion, the vague years (tun) will gain 5.25 days every year against the solar year (ha'ab).

2. 13 baktuns, or 5200 tuns (vague years) is equal to 5128 solar years plus 280 days.

3. The date recorded in the Dresden codex is 4 ahau 3 kankin. The 4 ahau is derived from the Tzolkin, which is a civic calendar that gives a name to the days, like our days are called by the names of the week. The Tzolkin date is a series of 13 numbers paired with a sequence of 20 symbols. The 4 kankin means that this day called 4 ahau occurs on the 5th day of the month of kankin.

4. The ha'ab being a solar calendar must accurately predict the seasons and conditions. It must remain steady and aligned with the solar cycle or it becomes useless to the people that use it. This means that we can know the time of year intended for any date that includes the ha'ab. Just like we know that October happens the same time every year.

5. The Tzolkin repeats every 260 days, but when you pair it with the ha'ab date, no day will have the same name twice in 52 solar years. This means that if we know the solar calendar date and the Tzolkin date we can automatically deduce the name of the solar year. The Mayans didn't record the name of the solar year because it was implied already.

6. In this case, the only solar year when the end date of the cycle can occur is called 2 Etznab. In Aztec lands, the year was called 2 Tecpatl. According to the order of the years, this is the year after One Acatl, the year when it was prophecied that Quetzalcoatl would return. If he didn't return in that year, the people knew that it would be at least another 52 years before he might.

7. We know from numerous Spanish and native sources that the year in course when Cortes arrived was One Acatl. This is the only reason the Aztecs did not kill Cortes and allowed him into the city. Had it been any other year they would not have thought he could be Quetzalcoatl. We know that the year was 1519.

8. If the year following One Acatl is 2 Tecpatl, or 2 Etznab in Mayan lands, then it tells us that the only time the calendar cycle can end is in a year such as 1520, 1572,1624,1676,1728,1780,1832,1884,1936, 1988 or 2040.

I will write more in a while.

So yes, please enlighten me and what the heck is the stone that was erected anyways?


The word Tun means stone. It also means vague year. There is an archaic relationship between the two that runs deep in all Mayan languages that I am aware of. In some languages it is Ton, and in parts of Chiapas it also has the connotation of "saintly". This is one of the tricky things about the Mayan language. There are so many nuances that are not obvious to a westerner. Lots of words mean different things depending on the context it is used in, but at some deep level they all belong to the same root concept.

A stone was erected, like it always is and has been over the centuries, to mark the new cycle. Tun, Katun, Baktun, they are all stones.

And I'm sorry OP if I got pissy and then to make it worse, I didn't realize it was you that were asking the question. I get a bit touchy about the 2012 disinformation because it is a land, a people and a culture that I love very much.

The leap year was not needed, because the days started at different times of the day, depending on the ruling cardinal point of the year in question. If it was a year from the east, Ben, the year and all of the days in that year started at sunrise. After 18 Uinals, or solar months of 20 days each, an additional 5 days was added. The last day was extended until noon when the new year Etznab was ushered in. The years from the west started at sunset and the years from the south at midnight. After four years the extra day is accounted for, but not counted as a day. Therefore, according to the Thompson correlation, for every four years of his calculation, there is an error of 1 day. When we are talking about a cycle of more than 5000 years, it is significant.By the end of the cycle, the error is more than 24 solar years.

Using the Thompson correlation, the end date does not follow the logical sequence and it does not produce a reliable solar calendar date, while the way I am explaining maintains a solid, steady and predictable solar year even after more than 5000 years.

You are welcome. You know your stuff as you are part of the Mayan culture and people right? I had a feeling you would give an educated challenging response. :)

You do realize there is nothing on the Internet that mentions the Mayan Long Count ending in 1988 and cycling over right?

Ok, I see what you are saying that for every 4 years the Long Count is off a year, thus in solar years over a 5000 year period it is off by 24 solar years, thus coming up with that 1988 date.

Again, I have never heard of that theory before ever! You are saying the GMT correlation is off quite a bit. Have you ever emailed this logic and brought it up to other Mayan calendar researchers out there. Maybe email John Major Jenkins and sees what he thinks of that theory?

To me, right off, it doesn't sound right. I believe the GMT correlation is the most accurate and I can explain more as to why later and put it into simple terms. :)

waiting for more of your research results..................fascinating!


After I looked through your information, it's an obvious mistake that they (the researchers) overlooked the year 0, which was mistakenly counted in as a full year.

Makes a lot of sense.

Of course I realize it. Very few people, including Mayas are aware of this. Only a handful of people in Yucatan, Belize, the Tenec lands and some of the grandfather nations like the Mam know anything about the calendar. They have continued to erect stones and tally the years in secret since the fall of the Triple Alliance in 1460. The astronomical events that marked the true end date was the so called harmonic convergence in Aug 1987, when all of the inner planets were conjunct each other and the sun in the space of a few days. The new agers of the day were dancing nude in the moonlight trampling pyramids and going on about how this event was preparation for the 2012 doom date. I have to tell you that the people in the know had a really good laugh about that, they still laugh about it. The real date was here and everyone was celebrating a bogus event and "preparing" for a wrong calendar date of doom, when the real thing was happening.

Just to be clear, I am not Mayan. I am half Canadian native and half Mexican native. I married a Yucatecan Maya and have lived in Mayan regions on and off for 50 years. My father in law was one of the men who knows where the stones are and he took me with him to the ceremony because they needed an interpreter for the people from Belize, since the Mayan they speak is not understood by the Yucatec Mayas of today.

The thing is that it is just a calendar for tallying the days and keeping track of time. There is no other significance. The only importance of the 13 baktun cycle is that it marks 1/5 of a full zodiac precession. Any cycle is divided into 5 parts based on the old number system.

Everybody has just assumed the GMT correlation is right. Nobody really questions it, even when the glaring error of the supposed end date falling in a solar year where the date written cannot occur and the placement of the month is months off is staring them in the face.

This is what happens when you try to understand a foreign concept through western eyes. You try to make it fit with what you already know. The simplicity of the calendar can best be appreciated when you suspend western ideas and get into the numbers. It is so intricate yet so simple. The GMT was devised by coming up with a formula to convert a calendar date to a Julian date and then to our calendar. It is convoluted and defies the simplicity, of course leading to mistakes.

I and a few others have been trying to explain for years. I usually get flamed, ignored or banned for telling what I know on the internet. A lot of money has been made, not by Mayans over this scam. My only interest is that these lies have been attributed to a noble people and now that the lies are exposed and nothing happened in 2012, people will say the Mayas were wrong. No they weren't. The 2012 merchants were wrong.

Ok, I respect your idea and thoughts on this. I can see what you are saying somewhat. I still don't know how you get to that date to well. It is kind of confusing if you ask me. But anyways, I can show you pretty clearly later why the GMT is correct, and why the calendar ends on Dec. 16th, 2013 and recycles on Dec. 17th, 2013. Supposedly, I am not the only one that has figured this out as I posted earlier on this thread.

I will make it so clear cut to understand this logic. It might take me time to compile my thoughts and research and lay it out clearly.

And then you will be able to see so clearly when it is all said and done, why Dec. 21st, 2012 was an obvious lie or complete misconception or a Homer "DOOOHHH" moment, and why Dec. 16th, 2013 is the REAL DEAL!

The start date is recorded as 8 Cumkhu. This is a solar calendar date, like saying 10th of May to us. We all know that the 10th of May can only happen in May. Not in December, not in July. Only in May.

The length of the long cycle is 5200 Tun, or 5200 x 360 days. The Tun is not the solar year. The solar year component appears in the old dates as a means to indicate the name of the day, the month and day of the month it falls on, and since a day can only have the same name every 52 years, each day name in a 52 year solar cycle of years is unique and repeats every 52 years.

The long cycle corresponds to 5128 solar years plus 280 days. Do the math and tell me this is wrong. It isn't.

For a moment, lets forget about correlations and just use logic and counting. If the start date is 8 Cumkhu, in order to know the name of the day of the month that the end date will occur, we have to count forward in the months 280 days. Which brings us to 3 Kankin, as it is written. Try it and see I am right:

Starting at 8 Cumkhu we count the remaining 12 days of Cumkhu and since Cumkhu is the last full month of the solar year, we add the 5 Uayeb

Cumkhu 12
Uayeb 5
Pop 20
Uo 20
Zip 20
Zodz 20
Tzec 20
Xul 20
Yaxkin 20
Mol 20
Chen 20
Yax 20
Zac 20
Ceh 20
Mac 20
Kankin 0, 1, 2

This brings the new cycle to 3 Kankin, as it should, as it is written in Mayan lands.

Now this means that likewise, whatever day we chose as a possible start date in a correlation, the end date must correspond to a date 280 days after on the solar calendar. So if the start date was in July, it would mean that the end of cycle could never be in December or any other time but April.

The people I know don't need correlations because they never stopped counting. That's why by their method they can still know exactly where they are in the solar cycle, they can still predict with accuracy the solar transits of the zenith and nadir, the eclipses and the Venus cycle, while the GMT correlation does none of those things.

Ok, it is still pretty confusing what you wrote and explaining it. I mean, this is nowhere to be found in Mayan books or the Internet to understand it more. This is kind of making me think that this whole new Mayan calendar calculation thing you have is like a New Jerusalem Russ calendar.

The GMT is most accurate when it comes to eclipses, etc. That is how they figured it out.

Where is 8 Cumkhu recorded anyways in a Mayan glyph? I don't believe there is anything out there, any glyph that shows the Dec. 21st, 2012 date. It was all calculated by the beginning date, and that is how they got to it. Now I have to see if the beginning date of the Mayan calendar has ever been clearly shown in a glyph.

More to look into related to this, but I am sorry, I am not seeing at all how you are figuring out your calculations to the Mayan Long Count and why you say it ended in 1988 and why it is off by 24 years.

Does that mean, the Mayan calendar Long Count started 24 years before the beginning date of Aug. 13th, -3114?

Now for the correlation of the solar year ha'ab with our calendar.

The start of the calendar was different according to region because a solar calendar has to accurately and reliably predict when to plant, when it will rain, when it won't and in the tropics this changes quite a lot depending on altitude and how close you are to the coast.

The first day of the solar new year in the Yucatan was celebrated on July 24, which is the day when the sun crosses into the local southern hemisphere (2nd zenith transit).

The autumn equinox falls on 0 Zodz, the first transit of the nadir and the transit of the Pleiades on the local zenith at midnight happens on November 21, or 0 Yaxkin and the second transit of the nadir happens on 0 Yax. This is important. The word Yax means young or green. Yaxkin is green or young sun. During the period between Yaxkin and Yax the sun is farthest from the local midheaven, it has gone to the south, land of the gods to be renewed. Yax happens on Jan. 20th, the name Young means that the sun has been renewed. Likewise, the spring equinox falls on 0 Mac, March 21st and the first solar transit of the zenith happens on May 20, or 0 Pax, when the sun crosses into the local northern hemisphere. It isn't a coincidence that all of these important events fall on the first day of the Uinal. It is a very reliable calendar for agriculture, which is the basis of mesoamerican culture.

Lots of places, namely the Dresden Codex. It is written as a ring date in the 9th Baktun, because the ring dates indicate where the solar and tun cycles coincide. This date is also noted in songs and on countless monuments and stele.

Or you could count backwards 280 days from 3 kankin and it will confirm that the start date had to be 8 cumkhu.

OP What makes you believe the calendar start date is correct ? TO know when it ends you need to know were it starts this is were you should start do your own research you CAN find the anwser

What you need to know is the full calendar date for the same event recorded in both ways. With that you can narrow it down. The arrival of Cortes is noted by natives in the old fashion and by the Spaniards in their own, so it really isn't that hard. Honestly folks. Throw out the complicated formulas. It is really very simple, you lose the true amazingness of the calendar when you try to see it through western eyes and adapt it to our less perfect calendar. The inscriptions give us a start date. They give us an end date, and both of these dates include the name of the day and it's placement in the month in course. We know that a day name paired with a solar date can only happen once every 52 years, so it really narrows it down for us. If the end date is 3 Kankin, we know that whatever the year, it will have to be in April during the month of Kankin, 4th day to be precise. From this we can deduce what the year in course was called. In this case, the only year that can have a day named 4 Ahau 3 Kankin is 2 Etznab. We can therefore discard any years that don't fall on 2 Etznab as being possible end date candidates.

We know that the year that Cortes arrived was 1519/20 which was known to be the year One Ben. The Mayans didn't believe in Quetzalcoatl. He was imposed during the Toltec expansion and the times of the Triple Alliance, but by 1520 the people had abandoned their cities and gone back to their old ways. But the Aztecs did believe in Quetzalcoatl. The year for them was Ce Acatl, One Cane and it was the year that it was prophecied that their god would return. This is the only reason why he was allowed to enter Tenochtitlan. We also know that the year that follows 1 Ben is 2 Etznab, coincidentally the name of the only year that can have a day called 4 Ahau 3 Kankin, the only year where the 13 Baktun cycle can end. So knowing this, the only years where the end date would be possible are the ones I gave in an earlier post. The most recent was 1988. If the timekeepers that held the ceremony were wrong, it only means that it couldn't happen until 2040. All other months besides April are impossible. All other years besides 1936, 1988, 2040 are impossible. Staring everyone right in the face is the proof that the GMT correlation is wrong, but people are so caught up in the convoluted attempts to make this calendar fit their own, and with no real knowledge of Mayan philosophy that the real cool thing about the Mayan calender is lost on them.

OP Excellent work the anwser is within your post the modern what we call myans are believers the calendar builders were knowers.

I am sorry but I am sticking by the tried and true GMT correlation. It has too much support to deny it. Thus, with your dates, and how you think the Mayan calendar is off by 24 years, I am not even going to try to figure out your logic. It is like trying to figure out the New Jerusalem Russ calendar.

"The Maya and Western calendars are correlated by using a Julian day number (JDN) of the starting date of the current creation – 13.0.0.0.0 4 Ajaw, 8 Kumk'u.[n 4] This is referred to as a correlation constant. The generally accepted correlation constant is the Modified Thompson 2, "Goodman, Juan H. Martinez-Hernandez, Thompson" – GMT correlation of 584,283 days. Using the GMT correlation the current creation started on September 6, 3114 BC (Julian) or August 11 in the Proleptic Gregorian calendar. The study of correlating the Maya and western calendar is referred to as the correlation question.[7][8][9][10][11] In Breaking the Maya Code, Michael D. Coe writes: "In spite of oceans of ink that have been spilled on the subject, there now is not the slightest chance that these three scholars (conflated to GMT when talking about the correlation) were not right...".[12]

The evidence for the GMT correlation is historical, astronomical, and archaeological:

Historical: Calendar Round dates with a corresponding Julian date are recorded in Diego de Landa's Relación de las cosas de Yucatán, the Chronicle of Oxcutzkab and the books of Chilam Balam. Oxcutzkab and de Landa record a date that is a Tun ending. Regarding these historical references in The Skywatchers Aveni writes: "All the assembled data are consistent with the equation November 2, 1539 = 11.16.0.0.0. Thus for the GMT, or 11.16 correlation we find that A = 584,283...".[13] The fall of the capital city of the Aztec Empire, Tenochtitlan, occurred on August 13, 1521. A number of different chroniclers wrote that this was a Tzolk'in (Tonalpohualli) of 1 Snake. Post-conquest scholars such as Sahagun and Duran recorded Aztec calendar dates with a calendar date. Many indigenous communities in the Mexican states of Veracruz, Oaxaca and Chiapas[14] and in Guatemala, principally those speaking the Mayan languages Ixil, Mam, Pokomchí, and Quiché, keep the Tzolk'in and in many cases the Haab'.[15] These are all consistent with the GMT correlation.

Astronomical: Any correct correlation must match the astronomical content of classic inscriptions. The GMT correlation does an excellent job of matching lunar data in the supplementary series.[16] For example: An inscription at the Temple of the Sun at Palenque records that on Long Count 9.16.4.10.8 there were 26 days completed in a 30 day lunation.[17] This Long Count is also the entry date for the eclipse table of the Dresden Codex[18] [n 5] which gives eclipse seasons when the Moon is near its ascending or descending node and an eclipse is likely to occur. Dates converted using the GMT correlation fall roughly in this eclipse season. The Dresden Codex contains a Venus table which records the heliacal risings of Venus. The GMT correlation agrees with these to within a few days which is as accurately as these could have been observed by the ancient Maya.

Archaeological: Various items that can be associated with specific Long Count dates have been isotope dated. In 1959 the University of Pennsylvania carbon dated samples from ten wood lintels from Tikal.[27] These were carved with a date equivalent to 741 AD using the GMT correlation. The average carbon date was 746±34 years."

[link to en.wikipedia.org]



East side of stela C, Quirigua with the mythical creation date of 13 baktuns, 0 katuns, 0 tuns, 0 uinals, 0 kins, 4 Ahau 8 Cumku - August 11, 3114 BCE in the proleptic Gregorian calendar.

Last Edited by Revelator Stargate on 12/25/2012 06:27 PM

I'll have to tell the timekeepers they have been doing it wrong all these years and that they should check out Wikepedia. ROFLMAO!! I think the OP and most of the researchers have too much invested in their attempts to make this calendar fit with their own that they resist logic and simplicity. You have to understand that the cycles that make up different instances of the calendar are very predictable and constant. The GMT calculation counts days that were absorbed by the practice of extending the last day of a solar year by one quarter of a day. This is why a date that should be in April occurs in December using the GMT correlation. If you forget about the GMT and other similar formulas, if you actually sit down and work it out based on the fact that a solar calendar follows the same solar cycle as the one we use, it's just partitioned differently, then we can easily find the correlation. Anyways, I have said enough and it's falling on deaf ears because so few want truth, they prefer to show off what they think they know.

I am not going to argue. You have your own theory as to whatever it is.

Jenkins, Stray, Coe, etc. etc. researchers consider GMT as the correct correlation.

And the GMT correlation was agreed upon three people that had numerous experience and expertise in calendars, archeology, and astronomy. So it is hard to argue there. But where I am saying they are wrong figuring out the end date was they included year 0, which shouldn't have been done. As to why they did that, I have no idea.

But I can cleary show later, why Dec. 16th, 2013 adds up perfectly. And if you can't see the logic behind it, than I am sorry.

Last Edited by Revelator Stargate on 12/30/2012 08:43 PM

Let me ask, do you agree that August 11, 3114 BC was the beginning of the Long count calendar?

Last Edited by Revelator Stargate on 12/25/2012 06:30 PM

No, I don't agree. 8 Cumkhu is the same as July 7th, and the year is 3140 BC.

there is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER the Mayans witnessed amazing sights, and experienced civilisation ending events.

if we are 1 5200th out in our calculations, or in other words, if ONE year was missed out somehow, next year could well be it

No it doesn't. How do you explain that a solar calendar from a supposedly advanced civilization doesn't accurately predict when a month occurs?

As for the order of Katuns, you have it wrong. Very wrong.

The order is as follows:

4 Ahau
2 Ahau
13 Ahau
11 Ahau
9 Ahau
7 Ahau
5 Ahau
3 Ahau
1 Ahau
12 Ahau
10 Ahau
8 Ahau
6 Ahau

4 Ahau

The name of the Katun is taken from the name of the day that the renewal occurs. It will always be Ahau and it will always follow the above sequence in order. It counts out 7200 days.

Do the counting and you will see that I am right.