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Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 10:30 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
No, I dont believe it's a cult. This program actually gave my dad his life back. During my child hood my father was a heavy drinker. He was always drunk and violent. He would abuse my mother, my siblings and myself. My mother didn't divorce him because we as catholics don't believe in it. Eventually after his youngest brother died of alcohol poisoning he went to rehab and then AA. Thanks to the program he has been clean for about 15 years. He is much happier and calmer. It is true that the program is very religious but it was nothing extreme from what he's told me. Maybe we are a special case, but they helped us and i am very thankful.
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 10:32 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
The Steps are all about looking at your shit, you now the shit you're always trying to hide from yourself, your shadow, your selfishness, your greed, your jealousies, your dependence on other people, places and things, your dependencies even on religion, your self loathing, your self pity, your need for control and manipulation, your need to be right.
And once you look that these aspects of yourself, you need to go and also look at your beauty, your gifts, your service, your gratitude, your assets, your selflessness, your humor, your wit, your intellect.
The point of any 12 step process is to be completely honest with yourself, all of you, and to live in truth.
And once you live in your truth, you can live in your love, and once you can live in truth and love, you can find freedom, because freedom casts all lies aside, freedom serves truth, and truth serves freedom.
You cannot be enslaved by something if you are living in total truth of it.
Dis-empower comes about when you are living a lie because there is no power in a living being who is fragmented, compartmentalized, and destructive and it takes a place of looking within to actually give you the power to gain your real life back, at least a life worth living.

You know nothing about this, this is what your so called "AA is a cult" is all about.
All the judgement and criticism is about believing in a lie anyway, because the 12 step process is exactly about what I just wrote above.
If you knew otherwise, you would make the comments you are making based on false assumptions.
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 10:38 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
I've seen AA save people's lives, so it works for at least some people.
Hales
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12/25/2012 10:47 PM

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
*

Last Edited by Hales on 04/05/2013 11:52 PM
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 10:51 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
To understand AA you have to understand it's roots in "The Oxford Group," headed by Frank Buckman. Plenty of reading here:

[link to www.orange-papers.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4592647


this is true and correct.
but, the program gets people off the sauce for long periods of time when everything else seems to fail.
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 10:59 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
AA is for quiters.
Fredddddy
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12/25/2012 11:03 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
I made ten years sober on December 9th of this year. AA was a wonderful tool to use in the beginning of me getting sober. The new members do a program called 90 in 90. That's 90 meetings in 90 days to really keep you learning a new way of living. I appreciated the help AA gave me to finding my own inner strength to not drink. Is it strict? Yes. Cultish? Not in my experience.
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 11:07 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
The need for AA is a replacement for a need to drink (or do drugs).

Addiction (regardless what you are addicted to) is a mindset that is really, really hard to break.

If you do not have an addictive personality you cannot possibly 'get' what its like to be an addictive person.

AA attempts (albeit poorly in some ways) to give people a better (questionable as it may be) outlet for their addictive behaviors.


As for the powerless over alcohol thing. If you had an addictive personality you would keenly understand what that means. But (assuming you don't get addicted to stuff) you can't relate to it because you haven't been in the hands of something.

Alcoholism and drug addiction (any addiction) is not curable. Of course once again as a 'normy' you don't get how its possible for this to be, but then you don't wake up every day craving some drug of choice, you don't have the screaming in your brain to have a drink or a shot or a line or whatever.

I am a drug addict, thankfully decades clean and sober in that I haven't touched my drug of choice in a very long time. However the habits and personality traits of addiction still reside in me. I could very easily hook up with a drug dealer tomorrow and be right back where I was before I decided that I had a 'little problem'.

As a normy you can't possibly understand this. And if you can understand this then you have an addictive personality and need a program of recovery yourself.
 Quoting: Bowyn Aerrow


AA and NA, Over-eaters and Gamblers Anonymous, whatever – all those 12-step programs DO work. But I have always shared the OP’s belief that it IS mind control – actually, I always thought of it as “brainwashing” which is basically the same thing. But I don’t have a problem with that because the program is basically free and voluntary, and it helps people to stop doing things that are REALLY hard to stop doing.

My personal problem with that scene is how most of the people in the program rely upon this whole “I’m a victim” philosophy like Mr. “you normies wouldn’t understand.” “I’m a victim of this DISEASE. It’s not my FAULT. I have an addictive PERSONALITY.” Give me a fucking break. I heard that crap in NA and I fell for it for a while. You don’t need to have one personality or another to get addicted to meth or crack, or alcohol. This “addictive personality” BS is a copout for taking responsibility for yourself. So is the whole “addiction is a disease” crap. Alzheimer’s and Leukemia are diseases.

For that matter, I think that too many people in America – probably the world in general - have this need to be the victim of something. I went to war so I have PTSD, maaaaan. I grew up in the inner city so I never got the same opportunities as the rich kids. I’m black; I’m Latino; I’m a woman, etc… People have this need to be part of a special group that you need to be a part of in order to understand it. It creates a situation where others have to revere your problem and take your word for how bad it is. Ha – I like to fuck with my wife by saying, “c’mon, childbirth can’t be THAT bad.” To which she responds [you know what she responds] and I say, “have YOU ever passed a football out of your ass?”

This mentality has brought about the countless frivolous lawsuits you see these days. Shit like: I spilled hot coffee on my lap so I am suing McDonalds, I got shot so I’m suing Smith and Wesson, I have emphysema so I’m suing the tobacco company, I slipped and fell so I’m suing whoever owns the place I did it, I crashed because I was gawping at strippers out front of a club so I’m suing them, I stepped into a manhole while texting so I’m suing the city…oh and [fast food chain] advertises too good and made me fat. And the list goes on and on. It’s always somebody else’s fault!

Even if you do actually HAVE a problem that nobody understands, SO WHAT? First do everything you can do to make it, AND THEN whine about your handicap. At least TRY to suffer in silence and achieve your goals and people will respect you - and you will respect YOURSELF. Blame your failures on some external oppressive factor and people will feel sorry for you – is that what you really want? It’s like that dude on an earlier post talking about he’s 100% disabled because he has…what was it? Oh yeah, sleep apnea, eczema, and PTSD. And his “6 combat tours” included Cold War Germany and Korean DMZ duty and some other lame shit. Wtf ever!

Anyway, back to the subject. I’m fully behind 12-step programs because like I said, they’re basically free and voluntary. They use church annexes, public buildings, barns, community college rooms, they don’t require you to identify yourself or be a member and they have free coffee. People clap for you when you succeed, encourage you, offer help. If you say you’re 12 years sober, they take your word for it and give you a chip (I guess – I didn’t hang around that long but I never saw anybody present PROOF).

What freaked me out though, is that I felt my mind becoming a part of the collective. I was being drawn into the uh…mindset or something. I felt like I was part of it – that I was IN. I was being brainwashed! So I decided to back OUT and deal with my problem on my own. That was a long ass time ago and I’ve been successful in my life.

rant
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 11:15 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
The thing that I saw when I attended AA for a short time over 20 years ago, is that yes - they convince you that your disease is life-long, and that they welcome you to "Keep coming back". Well that's a convenient little method for the newcomers. If the alcoholic is true to the program and continues attending AA meetings for the rest of his life, then he is a readiy-avaiable testimony for the newcomers into the program. The more you come, the more of an assistance you can be to the new people in the program.

That cycle is broken, however, if you have the willpower and conviction to stop on your own, and stay that way. If you recognize what brought you to being an alcoholic, and are able to change or avoid those triggers, then you truly are healed. But then once you are healed, you are not in the meetings any more to be able to tell those that are just now coming in, that they can heal themselves with the right power and motivation.
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 11:20 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
Someone I am close to is heavily involved in AA and their life revolves around it. Anyone else had this experience? They 'need' to go to meetings, they say, daily. It's a cult which encourages harmful thinking, such as powerlessness and the idea of alcoholism as being incurable. I've been to pick up someone I know from meetings and I get a bad feeling in my gut about many of the members. Many AA members are felons and predators. I don't believe alcoholism is something which is incurable, contrary to the nonsense AA teaches.

[link to www.geocities.com]

[link to www.positiveatheism.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19453323


Why not spend your time judging your own life and your own choices. AA is a program that gets HARDCORE alcoholics passed the drink and onto the path of God. An alcoholic is a person that once they start drinking they can't/don't want to stop. A person in AA has come to the conclusion that they need to be around people that have had the same struggles and will not judge them for what they have done in the past. Demonizing a program that helps people find sobriety...that's just lame.
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 11:23 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
Someone I am close to is heavily involved in AA and their life revolves around it. Anyone else had this experience? They 'need' to go to meetings, they say, daily. It's a cult which encourages harmful thinking, such as powerlessness and the idea of alcoholism as being incurable. I've been to pick up someone I know from meetings and I get a bad feeling in my gut about many of the members. Many AA members are felons and predators. I don't believe alcoholism is something which is incurable, contrary to the nonsense AA teaches.

[link to www.geocities.com]

[link to www.positiveatheism.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19453323


Why not spend your time judging your own life and your own choices. AA is a program that gets HARDCORE alcoholics passed the drink and onto the path of God. An alcoholic is a person that once they start drinking they can't/don't want to stop. A person in AA has come to the conclusion that they need to be around people that have had the same struggles and will not judge them for what they have done in the past. Demonizing a program that helps people find sobriety...that's just lame.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 10883673


And why in the world is this filth pinned?!?!
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 11:31 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
You are dangerous to any of your friends who seek help.
 Quoting: Mickeyblue 9806228


THIS THIS THIS...unpin this garbage!
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 11:32 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
I had a family member in AA. Not a cult please. Does not promote powerlessness. It talks straight that being an alcoholic is going to be a life long thing that one drink and they will start again and that part is true. Alcoholics can be dry for years and one drink and they are back at it again.

Its like any addiction its with you for the rest of your life and you have to come to terms with that part of it.

Sounds like this all bugs you more than it bugs your freind. Don't go pushing your bad opinions on them because you find it distasteful. This isn't about you. AA helps lots of people get clean. They have been a group for over 50 years and have had many success's.

Quit pushing your poison. If your a drinker yourself and used to drink with this person then maybe your the one having a problem loosing a drinking buddy. Just saying.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 21790634


Thank you.

OP, you know nothing about what you speak. It would be in the best interest of your friend and others if you kept your trap shut. You know nothing. However, you are always welcome!
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 11:36 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
The OP is a moran. I know, because my uncle said so.
telling it straight

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12/25/2012 11:41 PM

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
AA is a lifesaver. Yes people NEED to go to meetings to maintain sobriety. While it may look weird and "cult-like" to you, its an awesome and I think divinely inspired program that's saved millions all over the world from having alcohol rob them of life because that's what it does. Alcohol steals, destroys and kills those who get addicted to it.

AA is without question THE BEST program for freeing people from the grip of that nasty and insidious addiction.

I hope you support and encourage the person you're talking about in their effort to maintain a sober life.
zenobiaphobia
While the deaf man sings along with the dumb

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12/25/2012 11:46 PM

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
OP, you know nothing about what you speak. It would be in the best interest of your friend and others if you kept your trap shut. You know nothing. However, you are always welcome!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30421335


(Now, I want an Anzo cake, durn it!Coconut-yum)

AA can often work better for veterans because it was initially designed to deal with a habit that was acquired in a military setting:

[link to alcoholrehab.com]

Bill didn’t try alcohol until he was 21 years old and serving in the military. He had always felt a bit shy so he was impressed with how much alcohol gave him confidence

Alcoholism in returning WWI and WWII veterans took a devastating toll on previous generations.

If you look at how many AA founders and contributors were veterans, its easy to see how the program would be better suited to former military, simply because that life experience is what its creators were dealing with. Everyone was former military back then.

[link to www.salem-news.com]


I knew from my Army experience that the Army introduces recruits to be alcoholics. Basic Training is so psychologically stultifying that the first chance they got, even at 18 years old or less, was to go to the in camp beer join and get plastered. This was a good way to escape the Army horse hockey for even a few hours. After that, beer became the soldier boys sody pop.


Which has led us to here;

[link to www.usmc-mccs.org]


The Marine Corps objective is to eliminate alcohol abuse. Combating the debilitating threat posed by alcohol abuse and alcohol dependency on both Marines and mission readiness requires a total commitment from all levels of leadership. Leaders must be alert to characteristics of alcohol abuse and with the symptoms of the disease of alcohol dependency. All leaders must not in any way promote or condone alcohol misuse.

Last Edited by zenobiaphobia on 12/25/2012 11:52 PM
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Isis One

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12/25/2012 11:50 PM

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
The need for AA is a replacement for a need to drink (or do drugs).

Addiction (regardless what you are addicted to) is a mindset that is really, really hard to break.

If you do not have an addictive personality you cannot possibly 'get' what its like to be an addictive person.

AA attempts (albeit poorly in some ways) to give people a better (questionable as it may be) outlet for their addictive behaviors.


As for the powerless over alcohol thing. If you had an addictive personality you would keenly understand what that means. But (assuming you don't get addicted to stuff) you can't relate to it because you haven't been in the hands of something.

Alcoholism and drug addiction (any addiction) is not curable. Of course once again as a 'normy' you don't get how its possible for this to be, but then you don't wake up every day craving some drug of choice, you don't have the screaming in your brain to have a drink or a shot or a line or whatever.

I am a drug addict, thankfully decades clean and sober in that I haven't touched my drug of choice in a very long time. However the habits and personality traits of addiction still reside in me. I could very easily hook up with a drug dealer tomorrow and be right back where I was before I decided that I had a 'little problem'.

As a normy you can't possibly understand this. And if you can understand this then you have an addictive personality and need a program of recovery yourself.
 Quoting: Bowyn Aerrow


Well said Bowyn Aerrow, calmly, competently and non-judgmentally. Kudos to you on your ten years sober. AA has stepped in when all the other disciplines could not help, to save many a person. Nothing in life is perfect. You can certainly read the Big Book by Yourself and I highly recommend it. I don't know how, as a Human one couldn't relate to at least one of the stories.

An addiction can be defined as ANY irresistible craving to do something that you can't resist. Author Richard Rohr, suggests the word sin in the Bible refers to these compulsions.
Spread the word, change the collective conscious......
THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH OF EVERYTHING TO GO AROUND

When you are undisciplined, the universe is extremely forgiving and when you are disciplined, the universe is extremely generous. Me
waterlily

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12/25/2012 11:51 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
What is the motivation for the cult? Usually its about money. Do they charge members or ask them to make hefty donations?
 Quoting: Angry Hierophant


No. You can go to AA meetings all day for the rest of your life and never give them a penny.
*********** WaterLily ***********
" Do I dare
Disturb the universe?"
-- T. S. Elliot, Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock

*************************************
“We are as ignorant of the meaning of the dragon as we are of the meaning of the universe.”
-- Jorge Luis Borges
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Pompey made his preparations for the war at the end of the winter, entered upon it at the commencement of spring,
and finished it in the middle of the summer."
-- Cicero, De Imperio Cn. Pompei
Anonymous Coward
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12/25/2012 11:57 PM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
FDA-approved drug for the consumption of alcohol.


the recovery it offers the millions of alcoholics in the United States alone--is revolutionary. Dr. David Sinclair, of the Sinclair Method, offers a thought-provoking foreword to THE CURE FOR ALCOHOLISM.


THE CURE FOR ALCOHOLISM offers readers something never before brought to bookshelves--a medically proven method that, for the first time, cures a once-thought incurable addiction that kills or harms millions of people every year

78 percent effective so far..sinclair method
Isis One

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12/25/2012 11:59 PM

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
AA neither endorses nor opposing any causes...hence the AA name should never be brought into public controversy.
 Quoting: Razorbackkid


Well said, powerful statement, thank you.
Spread the word, change the collective conscious......
THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH OF EVERYTHING TO GO AROUND

When you are undisciplined, the universe is extremely forgiving and when you are disciplined, the universe is extremely generous. Me
zenobiaphobia
While the deaf man sings along with the dumb

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12/26/2012 12:05 AM

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
AA neither endorses nor opposing any causes...hence the AA name should never be brought into public controversy.
 Quoting: Razorbackkid


Well said, powerful statement, thank you.
 Quoting: Isis One


Just to illustrate an example of the above, AA allows medical cannabis users to form AA groups which allow cannabis.

They're very cool about that.

This is a really good idea. If anyone would like to lead one in their area,there is a lot of demand for these groups among veterans. People using medical cannabis can feel out of place in traditional AA groups.

Its a good thing to do if you have the time and want to give back.

Last Edited by zenobiaphobia on 12/26/2012 12:10 AM
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Hardwired

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12/26/2012 12:42 AM

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
AA meetings have 3 types of attendees.

1. Alcoholics. These people have a disease and if they have another drink, may not stop until they are dead. For them it is a support group.

2. Those who are mandated, either by court or employer, and are just attending so they can get that requirement out of the way.

3. Lonely people. They go to be in a group, and realize their lives are not so bad compared to the alcoholics.
krosty

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12/26/2012 12:44 AM
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krosty

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12/26/2012 12:46 AM
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2. Those who are mandated, either by court or employer, and are just attending so they can get that requirement out of the way.
 Quoting: Hardwired


Deemed unconstitutional.

[link to www.sfgate.com]
Hardwired

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12/26/2012 12:58 AM

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
2. Those who are mandated, either by court or employer, and are just attending so they can get that requirement out of the way.
 Quoting: Hardwired


Deemed unconstitutional.

[link to www.sfgate.com]
 Quoting: krosty


Interesting. I have two friends mandated to attend meetings. One is a parole violator, the other failed a drug test at a refinery and is mandated to attend meetings in order to work at refineries in SoCal.

In the second case, the ruling wouldn't apply, since no one has to hire him. My other buddy could probably cite this case if he didn't want to go, but he has a problem with alcohol, so it is probably best for him.
Weezydt
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12/26/2012 01:06 AM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
I have over 20 years Clean and Sober and am a productive member of society. I have seen hundreds of people come out of the gutter and make lives for themselves. No-one is beyond help. Miracles do happen. Unless you need it though you might not understand. An addict has to fill the hole with something besides drugs. They have to depend upon a power greater/outside themselves. I have seen God at work in these people. Part of the program involves altruistic actions with no motives but to serve. This behavior does seem strange to many people. It works though. From my own experience, it is much better to be in recovery than in jail or dead.
zenobiaphobia
While the deaf man sings along with the dumb

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12/26/2012 01:09 AM

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
2. Those who are mandated, either by court or employer, and are just attending so they can get that requirement out of the way.
 Quoting: Hardwired


Deemed unconstitutional.

[link to www.sfgate.com]
 Quoting: krosty


Lemme footnote that for ya:

[link to www.aa.org]


Probation and parole officers, as well as judges, often require
people involved in alcohol related offenses to attend A.A. meetings.
Some A.A. members find it difficult to accept this “outside” policy in
light of our Third Tradition, “The only requirement for A.A. membership
is a desire to stop drinking.” Perhaps it’s helpful to remember
that our Traditions apply to us, and aren’t affected by the regulations
established by outside institutions—we cooperate without affiliating.
By adhering to all Twelve Traditions, many groups welcome
each newcomer regardless of how they got to the meeting.
In recent years, a larger number of “safe driving” programs have
been set up for drivers in trouble with the law because of some
episode related to drinking. These programs have many different
names—such as Alcohol Safety Action Project (A.S.A.P.), Driving
While Intoxicated (D.W.I.), Driving Under the Influence (D.U.I.), and
the like. Many A.A. committees that cooperate with these programs
offer attendees a chance to learn about A.A., and some are now
members of A.A. as a result.


Last Edited by zenobiaphobia on 12/26/2012 01:10 AM
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Hardwired

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12/26/2012 01:13 AM

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
2. Those who are mandated, either by court or employer, and are just attending so they can get that requirement out of the way.
 Quoting: Hardwired


Deemed unconstitutional.

[link to www.sfgate.com]
 Quoting: krosty


I just talked to my parolee pal. He was required to attend alcohol rehab. It did not have to be AA, but other rehabs charged money, sometimes a lot of it. If there is a religious objection, the court could still mandate some sort of treatment, but I would bet secular programs would be costly and not as readily available.
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 01:21 AM
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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
AA meetings have 3 types of attendees.

1. Alcoholics. These people have a disease and if they have another drink, may not stop until they are dead. For them it is a support group.

2. Those who are mandated, either by court or employer, and are just attending so they can get that requirement out of the way.

3. Lonely people. They go to be in a group, and realize their lives are not so bad compared to the alcoholics.
 Quoting: Hardwired

And then there are those like me who got sober....then entered AA 11 years later. Back then I was a near-death blood spitting brandy for breakfast alcoholic. I later entered not because of the loneliness but for the strength and fellowship through spirituality and experiencing it with people who share my alcoholic mindset.

BTW, OP, it's not a cult or a sect. Those situations have a leader. AA doesn't
krosty

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous Dangerous Mind Control Cult
2. Those who are mandated, either by court or employer, and are just attending so they can get that requirement out of the way.
 Quoting: Hardwired


Deemed unconstitutional.

[link to www.sfgate.com]
 Quoting: krosty


Interesting. I have two friends mandated to attend meetings. One is a parole violator, the other failed a drug test at a refinery and is mandated to attend meetings in order to work at refineries in SoCal.

In the second case, the ruling wouldn't apply, since no one has to hire him. My other buddy could probably cite this case if he didn't want to go, but he has a problem with alcohol, so it is probably best for him.
 Quoting: Hardwired


I would talk to an attorney about that as soon as possible.

It works for some people. It's a last line treatment option in my opinion. Judge should order him rehab but they are basically AA indoctrination hospitals. There are lots of losers in AA. I'm not talking about the sober people but some of them go there high on heroin because they say "the only requirement for membership is the desire to stop drinking." So they think alcoholism is different from addiction. Some come in so drunk they don't even know because it's such a habit to go there. Then there are preditors looking for easy to get females (usually ones with their lives in shambles that have been there 2 weeks). Going to a meeting is a crap shoot. There are A LOT of bad meetings.

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