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Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 04:54 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
UNrelated question, Mhz - you still hang out at the old Bible Wheel forum at all? Haven't been there in ages myself. Just curious what "attendance" is like since RAM's big announcement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

To tell you the truth I don't even remember being there. I started here and then went to Christianity.com, the rapture ready, then Christian Talk Zone and a few other places. Granted there are a few where I was only there for a thread or two. Got booted from one for asking a mod when the last time she read a verse that made her have any kind of emotion, good thing me and the site owner had 3 years talk behind us at that point.

What was the announcement about? At CTZ they put me in my own section and wouldn't let me interact with anybody outside that area, lol. I thought it was pretty funny but they were dead serious about 'containing me'
 Quoting: MHz


Most christian sites are like kindergarten - you express anything even slightly outside the box, and you're suddenly on some kind of leash

rolleyes

Fortunately at Bible Wheel they were pretty slack and would let people actually discuss stuff. I think it was the beginning of the year when Richard declared that he can't be "Christian" any longer because he just sees too many conflicts and contradictions. Last I saw, there was like a whole line of people urgently trying to persuade him back into the fold.
Good for him, I say. Coming outside of the camp like God commanded Moses is always a step in the right direction ;)
MHz

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12/26/2012 05:00 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
Like what?

You already turned down the ultimate gift, and promise.

What did you have in mind? Something you simply pulled out of your rear?

All the prophets of God, the disciples, the apostles, and even Jesus Himself, all delusional or liars, according to you. But a clueless internet clown who just believes whatever makes him feel good, is right?

So that's how it works for you... eh?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29938324

God doesn't leave anybody not gathered, not everybody at the same time. The Thomas incident, some gathered by faith that the Bible is real and for others proof is needed so they are given that before judgment is finalized. The ones closest to missing out are the ones unrepented and fighting on Satan's side. The verse below would seem like they no longer feel that way once they are in hell and can see him in chains. If they were going to the lake they would be released when he is, instead the only ones released are fallen angels, the same ones put into the pit by 10,000 holy angels during the flood.

Isa:14:15:
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell,
to the sides of the pit.
Isa:14:16:
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee,
and consider thee,
saying,
Is this the man that made the earth to tremble,
that did shake kingdoms;
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 05:03 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
if you don't know it has a happy ending
 Quoting: MHz


This is what I'm saying - Christianity Inc. has no inkling of any such thing. To churchbots it's all a big grim ultimatum. Turn or burn.

Fortunately, God has something better in mind.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578


Like what?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29938324


Like salvation far and wide

You already turned down the ultimate gift, and promise.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29938324


WTF are you talking about? Jesus is my Savior, and I couldn't live without Him.

All the prophets of God, the disciples, the apostles, and even Jesus Himself, all delusional or liars, according to you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29938324


No, just the modern Laodiceans *interpreting* those prophets disciples and apostles, through the leavened tunnel-vision English monstrosity of scripture. Delusional and short-sighted, yes. I was in this boat myself for a long time.
MHz

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12/26/2012 05:14 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
Most christian sites are like kindergarten - you express anything even slightly outside the box, and you're suddenly on some kind of leash

rolleyes

Fortunately at Bible Wheel they were pretty slack and would let people actually discuss stuff. I think it was the beginning of the year when Richard declared that he can't be "Christian" any longer because he just sees too many conflicts and contradictions. Last I saw, there was like a whole line of people urgently trying to persuade him back into the fold.
Good for him, I say. Coming outside of the camp like God commanded Moses is always a step in the right direction ;)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

Rapture Ready was like that, one thread you could post on if you weren't in the pre-trib group, still I was there for quite awhile and to this day I'm, puzzled why I got booted even though I was outside that one area. An (current) Israel friendly site but they has only 1/3 of Israel being saved and I pointed out that they were reduced to just 144,000 and then everyone going back to Abraham's son's is resurrected so that is who the whole house of Israel is for the Eze:39 verses and the 7 year clean-up. So I cab verify that your point is very valid and not for just one or two sites. To the credit of the owner of CTZ i did come back a few years later and he let me back in but no way was he going to get involved in any deep subjects, not a big deal as we had covered everything under the sun by then anyway.

Today I've tossed away a lot of proposed doctrines but my faith that the Bible is a truly inspired work is stronger than it was some years ago and that is based on how nicely all the books fit together rather than conflict with each other, that alone shows that one author knew the ending before the beginning was written down. The rapture is even there, it just comes when Satan and the fallen angels are being sent to the lake.

Isa:51:6:
Lift up your eyes to the heavens,
and look upon the earth beneath:
for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke,
and the earth shall wax old like a garment,
and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner:
but my salvation shall be for ever,
and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 05:20 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
my faith that the Bible is a truly inspired work is stronger than it was some years ago and that is based on how nicely all the books fit together rather than conflict with each other, that alone shows that one author knew the ending before the beginning was written down.
 Quoting: MHz


Agreed - I have no problem with this, if we recognize that it was originally issued in Hebrew & Greek and has since been mangled to all heck by hired scholars and ambitious monarchy
MHz

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12/26/2012 05:22 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
if you don't know it has a happy ending
 Quoting: MHz


This is what I'm saying - Christianity Inc. has no inkling of any such thing. To churchbots it's all a big grim ultimatum. Turn or burn.

Fortunately, God has something better in mind.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578


Like what?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29938324


Like salvation far and wide
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578


Turns out (via quite a few verses) that even the sparrows mentioned in the NT will be alive in the new earth, fact is all the 3 types of flesh will be so this earth was made good (as a seed bank) but the new earth will be perfected and all of mankind entering at the very start requires a lot of 'other flesh' so it gets a jump start rather than going at the rate we do today. The new earth is the whole universe, Angels move to the 3rd heaven, the city of God which is where the GWT will be.

Isa:60:22:
A little one shall become a thousand,
and a small one a strong nation:
I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

Heb:12:22:
But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
Brian Moser

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12/26/2012 05:22 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
What if this duality existence is all just a play, and some beings took on the role as bad guy, while others took on the role as good guy? Then at the end of the play the curtain goes down, players take off their mask and will show their real faces? Then actors are basically actors who took on roles to tell the story. Hollywood is all about illusion. So yeah, in the end all the actors will get paid for their work, no matter what role they played.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1277891


I like this ^

When you think about it, everything we do revolves around a fundamental understanding of physics. Most importantly, we accept on a daily basis that for every action is an equal and opposite reaction.

To me, "God vs Satan" is much more metaphorical than it is actual history. People like to root for the good guy but without accepting the logic that God would not be God without a reciprocal of equal and opposite value such as the devil.

Math is just a language that communicates ideas that we can't do through spoken words due to a lack of vocabulary. We live in a world of forces that rely on the existence of each other like zero and infinity - both of which are paradoxes but can only be defined through the acceptance that both play equal roles.

They don't judge. Hell, they don't even have personalities. If they did have emotions, they would only function based on mood and mathematics would break down completely. In other words, 2+2 would only equal 4 when it "wants" to.

But, back to what you're saying about it all being an act...

In the big picture, we are just children trying to understand the complexity of how the world works. The older we get, the less something needs to be anthropomorphized to understand it. For example, babies get toys with suns that have smiles and clouds that have frowns. Maybe that's all religion (in the context of having historical value) comes down to.
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 05:27 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
What if this duality existence is all just a play, and some beings took on the role as bad guy, while others took on the role as good guy? Then at the end of the play the curtain goes down, players take off their mask and will show their real faces? Then actors are basically actors who took on roles to tell the story. Hollywood is all about illusion. So yeah, in the end all the actors will get paid for their work, no matter what role they played.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1277891


I like this ^

When you think about it, everything we do revolves around a fundamental understanding of physics. Most importantly, we accept on a daily basis that for every action is an equal and opposite reaction.

To me, "God vs Satan" is much more metaphorical than it is actual history. People like to root for the good guy but without accepting the logic that God would not be God without a reciprocal of equal and opposite value such as the devil.

Math is just a language that communicates ideas that we can't do through spoken words due to a lack of vocabulary. We live in a world of forces that rely on the existence of each other like zero and infinity - both of which are paradoxes but can only be defined through the acceptance that both play equal roles.

They don't judge. Hell, they don't even have personalities. If they did have emotions, they would only function based on mood and mathematics would break down completely. In other words, 2+2 would only equal 4 when it "wants" to.

But, back to what you're saying about it all being an act...

In the big picture, we are just children trying to understand the complexity of how the world works. The older we get, the less something needs to be anthropomorphized to understand it. For example, babies get toys with suns that have smiles and clouds that have frowns. Maybe that's all religion (in the context of having historical value) comes down to.
 Quoting: Brian Moser


Good stuff. There's no wasted energy in this thing. Evil basically serves the purpose of providing enough friction to polish its foes ;)
MHz

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12/26/2012 05:28 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
Agreed - I have no problem with this, if we recognize that it was originally issued in Hebrew & Greek and has since been mangled to all heck by hired scholars and ambitious monarchy
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

That is what the 1611KJV uses and to be a tad fair the other Bibles had to change the wording enough that it would qualify as a 'new work' so they could sell it for money. (rather than it being for an intentional deception) However in doing that it messed things up because God uses terms that are meant to fit together and changing it ruins it to a certain degree. Like having the sparrows from this earth being alive in the next. Changing 'all flesh' toall mankind' doesn't allow that (at first glance)

Lu:3:6:
And all flesh (all mankind) shall see the salvation of God.

1Co:15:39:
All flesh is not the same flesh:
but there is one kind of flesh of men,
another flesh of beasts,
another of fishes,
and another of birds.

Last Edited by MHz on 12/26/2012 05:29 AM
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 05:37 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
That is what the 1611KJV uses
 Quoting: MHz


I'm actually convinced otherwise. The whole thing is skewed with subjective interpretation of what they thought God meant in each context. A perfect example is the Greek term aion, meaning "age":

[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

Look at how many different English words they tried using to convey this term. This is due to Latin getting tossed into the mix, which also arbitrarily used the terms aenon and seculum completely determined by whatever the "scholars" were assuming at the time.

Nevertheless, the infallible KJV stands as an untouchable idol in most camps, and to dare suggest that it's been hacked is nothing short of blasphemous.
MHz

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12/26/2012 05:41 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
But, back to what you're saying about it all being an act...

In the big picture, we are just children trying to understand the complexity of how the world works. The older we get, the less something needs to be anthropomorphized to understand it. For example, babies get toys with suns that have smiles and clouds that have frowns. Maybe that's all religion (in the context of having historical value) comes down to.
 Quoting: Brian Moser

Eze:38:19:
For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken,
Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

Then again the grief God felt in Ge:6 was because of what fallen angels had done to the earth was a sincere emotion that brought out real anger and the wrath after the 1,000 years if also very real it still gives Satan and the fallen angels a place of their own (but without any children)and they do remain immortal but feeling a tad thirsty and a tad hungry all the time. They torment each other and while doing the tormenting may bring them a moment of pleasure they are soon the on the receiving end of it and experience pain, something an immortal is not supposed to feel (because the event is prevented from happening) (they will be in the 5th trump all the time)
Something like this.

Am:5:19:
As if a man did flee from a lion,
and a bear met him;
or went into the house,
and leaned his hand on the wall,
and a serpent bit him.

Last Edited by MHz on 12/26/2012 05:43 AM
MHz

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12/26/2012 05:52 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
That is what the 1611KJV uses
 Quoting: MHz


I'm actually convinced otherwise. The whole thing is skewed with subjective interpretation of what they thought God meant in each context. A perfect example is the Greek term aion, meaning "age":

[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

Look at how many different English words they tried using to convey this term. This is due to Latin getting tossed into the mix, which also arbitrarily used the terms aenon and seculum completely determined by whatever the "scholars" were assuming at the time.

Nevertheless, the infallible KJV stands as an untouchable idol in most camps, and to dare suggest that it's been hacked is nothing short of blasphemous.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

It was a straight translation, they even had Jews do the Hebrew to English. Ever read the pre-face?

If you have doubts about the Bible they you must have no faith at all in the Torah or the talmud as the Torah was an oral book for almost 1,000 years before it was written down in Babylon. That would have been by Daniel and his 3 friends so what Moses gave in the desert was produced in perfect condition and kept that way because it was copied word for word. Where they get messed up is in the conclusions arrived at when they are not using all the material God arranged for them to have. The Gospel of John and Revelation was written by a disciple of John the Baptist and John was called by God rather than being sought out by Jesus so he is as authentic as Moses was and he commissioned the writer to follow Jesus. If you are looking for errors start there, Jews using the Gospel of John and Revelation would be changing a lot of things but it would fit perfectly, but they won't because pride won't let them.

I'm a big boy and I can also rebuttal any argument that 'scholars' can dig up such as late dating and such. God doesn't work that way, as soon as something can be done it gets done, the 4 Gospels would have been with Paul when he first started preaching about Jesus. Luke:21:24 is about 70AD, not much use writing about it as a warning if it was a past event. The verse from James (brother of the Apostle John)is after 70AD, says so in the verse below.

Jas:1:1:
James,
a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad,
greeting.

Lu:21:24:
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword,
and shall be led away captive into all nations:
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles,
until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

De:4:27:
And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations,
and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you.

Last Edited by MHz on 12/26/2012 05:59 AM
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 06:01 AM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
It was a straight translation
 Quoting: MHz


No, apparently not, if you'll check the link I provided as a prime example. Many Hebrew and Greek terms in scripture are conveyed through half a dozen or more different English words, many of the differing significantly in meaning. It's like when Jesus mentioned the "end of the (aion)": since they made it say "world", we now have multitudes of sincere christians anticipating an "end of the world", something which He never even spoke of.

Ultimately, the Word of God is a Person.
MHz

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12/26/2012 12:42 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
It was a straight translation
 Quoting: MHz


No, apparently not, if you'll check the link I provided as a prime example. Many Hebrew and Greek terms in scripture are conveyed through half a dozen or more different English words, many of the differing significantly in meaning. It's like when Jesus mentioned the "end of the (aion)": since they made it say "world", we now have multitudes of sincere christians anticipating an "end of the world", something which He never even spoke of.

Ultimately, the Word of God is a Person.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

No doctrine is based solely on a single verse, the verse below help define what 'this world' means and it is referencing the time when 'It is done.' is said at the time the 7th trump sounds. That is the day the two witnesses are resurrected, the sinners of the world are put into the grave, and the ones destined to be alive are alive naturally or by resurrection as immortal and sinless people. That day the 10 Commandments pass from being the Law and the one in Re:21 is first given to any men, Re:21 is when the last of mankind come to be under that law. That takes a few more references to be that clear but the term 'world' is not a stumbling block and this earth passes away when fire sends Satan and the fallen angels to the lake at the end of the 1,000 year reign. The 2nd reference below is about planets other than this one.

M't:24:30:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
M't:24:31:
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
from one end of heaven to the other.

Heb:1:2:
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds;
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 12:56 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
No. God is an angry 10 year old.
MHz

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12/26/2012 01:09 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
No. God is an angry 10 year old.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25595289

Do you always read half a book or walk out halfway through a movie and then claim to know all the facts?

Re:21:3:
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying,
Behold,
the tabernacle of God is with men,
and he will dwell with them,
and they shall be his people,
and God himself shall be with them,
and be their God.
Re:21:4:
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes;
and there shall be no more death,
neither sorrow,
nor crying,
neither shall there be any more pain:
for the former things are passed away.
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 01:10 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 02:13 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
It was a straight translation
 Quoting: MHz


No, apparently not, if you'll check the link I provided as a prime example. Many Hebrew and Greek terms in scripture are conveyed through half a dozen or more different English words, many of the differing significantly in meaning. It's like when Jesus mentioned the "end of the (aion)": since they made it say "world", we now have multitudes of sincere christians anticipating an "end of the world", something which He never even spoke of.

Ultimately, the Word of God is a Person.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

No doctrine is based solely on a single verse, the verse below help define what 'this world' means and it is referencing the time when 'It is done.' is said at the time the 7th trump sounds. That is the day the two witnesses are resurrected, the sinners of the world are put into the grave, and the ones destined to be alive are alive naturally or by resurrection as immortal and sinless people. That day the 10 Commandments pass from being the Law and the one in Re:21 is first given to any men, Re:21 is when the last of mankind come to be under that law. That takes a few more references to be that clear but the term 'world' is not a stumbling block and this earth passes away when fire sends Satan and the fallen angels to the lake at the end of the 1,000 year reign. The 2nd reference below is about planets other than this one.

M't:24:30:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:
and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn,
and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
M't:24:31:
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
from one end of heaven to the other.

Heb:1:2:
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things,
by whom also he made the worlds;
 Quoting: MHz


wow
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 02:14 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
No. God is an angry 10 year old.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25595289


applause

That's what it boils down to.
Fortunately, it's not actually as advertised ;)
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 02:19 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
I think yes since Lucifer is just doing God's bidding. This must be the case or else God wouldn't even allow him to exist.
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 02:30 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
Lucifer = Morning Star which is the name for Venus
Heaven = Space
God = The Sun

IMO Lucifer(Venus) is already accepted by God (the Sun) in the heavens(space)
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 09:45 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
bump
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 09:49 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
Lucifer/Satan will not repent.
 Quoting: S.O.S.


He'll repent if God wants Him to - there's little option ;)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578


Well said.
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
AND on the seventh day there went forth from the presence of God a mighty angel, full of wrath and consuming, and God gave unto him the dominion of the outermost sphere.

2. Eternity brought forth time; the boundless gave birth to limit; being descended into generation.

3. As lightning I beheld Satan fall from heaven, splendid in strength and fury.

4. Among the Gods is none like unto Him, into whose hand are committed the kingdoms, the power and the glory of the worlds:

5. Thrones and empires, the dynasties of kings, the fall of nations, the birth of churches, the triumphs of time.

6. They arise and pass, they were and are not; the sea and the dust and the immense mystery of space devour them.

7. The tramp of armies, the voices of joy and of pain, the cry of the new-born babe, the shout of the warrior mortally smitten.

8. Marriage, divorce, division, violent deaths, martyrdoms, tyrannous ignorances, the impotence of passionate protest, and the mad longing for oblivion:

9. The eyes of the tiger in the jungle, the fang of the snake, the fśtor of slaughter-houses, the wail of innocent beasts in pain:

10. The innumerable incarnations of spirit, the strife towards manhood, the ceaseless pulse and current of desire:--

11. These are his who beareth all the Gods on his shoulders;[V] who establisheth the pillars of necessity and fate.

12. Many names hath God given him, names of mystery, secret and terrible.

p. 170

13. God called him Satan the Adversary, because matter opposeth spirit, and time accuseth even the saints of the Lord.

14. And the Destroyer, for his arm breaketh and grindeth to pieces; wherefore the fear and the dread of him are upon all flesh.

15. And the Avenger, for he is the anger of God; his breath shall burn up all the souls of the wicked.

16. And the Sifter, for he straineth all things through his sieve, dividing the husk from the grain; discovering the thoughts of the heart; proving and purifying the spirit of man.

17. And the Deceiver, for he maketh the false appear true, and concealeth the real under the mask of illusion.

18. And the Tempter, for he setteth snares before the feet of the elect: he beguileth with vain shows, and seduceth with enchantments.

19. Blessed are they who withstand his subtlety: they shall be called the Sons of God, and shall enter in at the beautiful gates.

20. For Satan is the doorkeeper of the temple of the King: he standeth in Solomon's porch; he holdeth. the keys of the sanctuary;

21. That no man may enter therein save the Anointed, having the arcanum of Hermes.

22. For Satan is the Spirit of the Fear of the Lord, which is the beginning of wisdom.

23. He is the devourer of the unwise and the evil: they shall all be meat and drink to him.

24. Whatsoever he devoureth, that shall never more return into being.

25. Fear him, for after he hath killed, he hath power to cast into hell.

26. But he is the servant of the Sons of God, and of the children of light.

27. They shall go before him, and he shall follow the steps of the wise.

28. Stand in awe of him and sin not: speak his name with trembling; and beseech God daily to deliver thee.

29. For Satan is the magistrate of the justice of God: he beareth the balance and the sword,

30. To execute judgment and vengeance upon all who come short of the commandments of God; to weigh their works, to measure their desire, and to number their days,

31. For to him are committed weight and measure and number.

p. 171

32. And all things must pass under the rod and through the balance, and be fathomed by the sounding-lead.

33. Therefore Satan is the minister of God, Lord of the seven mansions of Hades, the angel of the manifest worlds.

34. And God hath put a girdle about his loins, and the name of the girdle is Death.

35. Threefold are its coils, for threefold is the power of Death, dissolving the body, the ghost, and the soul.

36. And that girdle is black within, but where Phoibos strikes it is silver.

37. None of the Gods is girt save Satan, for upon him only is the shame of generation.

38. He hath lost his virginal estate: uncovering heavenly secrets, he hath entered into bondage.

39. He encompasseth with bonds and limits all things which are made: he putteth chains round about the worlds, and determineth their orbits.

40. By him are creation and appearance; by him birth and transformation; the day of begetting and the night of death.

41. The glory of Satan is the shadow of the Lord: the throne of Satan is the footstool of Adonai.

42. Twain are the armies of God: in heaven the hosts of Michael; in the abyss the legions of Satan.

43. These are the unmanifest and the manifest; the free and the bound; the virginal and the fallen.

44. And both are the ministers of the Father, fulfilling the word divine.

45. The legions of Satan are the creative emanations, having the shapes of dragons, of Titans, and of elemental gods;

46. Forsaking the intelligible world, 1 seeking manifestation, renouncing their first estate;

47. Which were cast out into chaos, neither was their place found any more in heaven.

(2)

48. Evil is the result of limitation, and Satan is the Lord of limit.

49. He is the father of lies, because matter is the cause of illusion.

p. 172

50. To understand the secret of the kingdom of God, and to read the riddle of Maya, this is to have Satan under foot.

51. He only can put Satan under foot who is released by thought from the bonds of desire.

52. Nature is the allegory of spirit: all that appeareth to the sense is deceit: to know the truth,--this alone shall make men free.

53. For the kingdom of Satan is the house of matter: yea, his mansion is the sepulchre of Golgotha, wherein on the seventh day the Lord lay sleeping, keeping the Sabbath of the unmanifest.

54. For the day of Satan is the night of spirit: the manifestation of the worlds of form is the rest of the worlds informulate.

55. Holy and venerable is the Sabbath of God: blessed and sanctified is the name of the angel of Hades;

56. Whom the Anointed shall overcome, rising again from the dead on the first day of the week.

57. For the place of Satan is the bourne of divine impulsion: there is the arrest of the outgoing force; Luza, the station of pause and slumber:

58. Where Jacob lay down and dreamed, beholding the ladder which reached from earth to heaven.

59. For Jacob is the planetary angel Iacchos, the Lord of the body;

60. Who hath left his father's house, and is gone out into a far country.

61. Yet is Luza none other than Bethel; the kingdom of Satan is become the kingdom of God and of His Christ.

62. For there the Anointed awakeneth, arising from sleep, and goeth his way rejoicing;

63. Having seen the vision of God, and beheld the secret of Satan;

64. Even as the Lord arose from the dead and brake the seal of the sepulchre;[V]

65. Which is the portal of heaven, Luza, the house of separation, the place of stony sleep;

66. Where is born the centripetal force, drawing the soul upward and inward to God;

67. Recalling Existence into Being, resuming the kingdoms of matter in spirit;[W]

68. Until Satan return unto his first estate, and enter again into the heavenly obedience;

p. 173

69. Having fulfilled the will of the Father, and accomplished his holy ministry,

70. Which was ordained of God before the worlds, for the splendour of the manifest, and for the generation of Christ our Lord;[X]

71. Who shall judge the quick and the dead, putting all things under his feet; whose are the dominion, the power, the glory, and the Amen.[A]
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 09:58 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
Lucifer has become The Satan. Once you're a pickle you can't become a cucumber again?
Kirk

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12/26/2012 10:10 PM

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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
Revelations tells us the future God has shown us. Lucifer/Satan will not repent.

The question is if Lucifer did repent would the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross be sufficient for his sin as well? I believe it would be since the blood of Christ takes away all sins; however, the fallen angels had a relationship with God that was far more in touch with the Father then any man that is alive today, and their transgression against Him shows just how far they have fallen.
 Quoting: S.O.S.


The Angels fell so that mankind could be tested.
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 10:16 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
Lucifer = Morning Star which is the name for Venus
Heaven = Space
God = The Sun

IMO Lucifer(Venus) is already accepted by God (the Sun) in the heavens(space)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30738753


For actual truth
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 10:16 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
what if the story you have read was wrong in writting what if the devil as you call him only did that which his "father" asked. what if the rebellion was planed by the father himself to allow lucifer as you say be accepted by the cold hard criminals here what if it was a plan to bring their plans to light so they could be counteracted just saying what if he was workingfor GOd all along and the rest was just staged to allow him to be accepted within the secret societies. Just a thought
 Quoting: lucifer9




What does the bible say? this should be your guide. Other speculation is empty.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30844442


The Bible shows God can and does change his mind! Refer to Jonah and the planned judgement of Nineveh.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30626001




That was the end of the story of Jonah.
Regarding Satan, read the end of the story of Revelation..
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 10:23 PM
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
For consideration,the Seven Spirits of God and their Correspondences -

1. Uriel


=Fire of God.


Phoibos Apollo.


Angel of the Sun.

2. Raphael


=Physician of God.


Hermes.


Angel of Mercury.

3. Anael


=Sweet Song of God.


Aphrodite,


Angel of Venus.

4. Salamiel


=Acquired of God.


Dionysos.


Angel of the Earth.

5. Zacchariel


=Man of God.


Ares.


Angel of Mars.

6. Michael


=Like unto God.


Zeus and Hera.


Angel of Jupiter.

7. Orifiel (or Satan)


=Hour of God.


Kronos.


Angel of Saturn.

Gabriel


=Strength of God.


Artemis or Isis.


Angel of the Moon.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Will God ever accept Lucifer into Heaven again
Annihilation is a huge step up from Endless Torture, but it remains an unsatisfactory outcome for Love :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578

And the American Christian enters the ring.

What part of these verses do you see as being 'torture'?

Isa:65:17:
For,
behold,
I create new heavens and a new earth:
and the former shall not be remembered,
nor come into mind.

Isa:65:22:
They shall not build,
and another inhabit; they shall not plant,
and another eat:
for as the days of a tree are the days of my people,
and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isa:65:23:
They shall not labour in vain,
nor bring forth for trouble;
for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD,
and their offspring with them.
Isa:65:24:
And it shall come to pass,
that before they call,
I will answer;
and while they are yet speaking,
I will hear.
 Quoting: MHz


None if it. That's why I spend significant time here refuting the wildly-predominant-yet-illogical-and-unscriptural belief in Hell.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8788578




When you "refute" Hell, you refute God....you reject His Son; Jesus Himself declared the existence of hell. God thought of it; we just believe Him. Your argument is with God the Creator. He created it all and He will finish it all, and He has declare that there is hell.

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