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I am a local bitcoin seller

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 30746055
Mongolia
12/25/2012 11:25 PM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
is it possible that bitcoin is the one world currency weve been dreading?
 Quoting: DPS

No, because no gov't can control it. They fear it, and want to ban it.

It's the one digital counter-currency.

Nothing beats gold & silver, but Bitcoin is the non-gov't solution to digital money.

And, unlike Paypal, all transactions are final. So they can't come back and rape or freeze your account whenever TPTB wish to.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30746055


i know... but something tells me betcoin is an inception by the banks themselvs. they could then launder all thier money into this new world bitcoin
 Quoting: DPS


finally someone who makes sense.

I just know one thing - I trust my gut - and bitcoins smell fishy as hell.

Thats the real reason i neve got into them.

Not just that they are based on nothing, are totally experimental, totally untime proven, and are basically version 1 of digital p2p currency which could be trumped tomorrow by a more inovative less sinister more stable alternative.

Yeah - what got me was the fishyness of it. The fishy smell. You may be onto something Mr. Isreal.

Its certainly been used as a scam/pump and dump vehicle at least once so far ( look at 2011 trading chart in post above)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24113482

Yes, Bitcoin, like paper fiat is based on nothing. Well is based on hashrates, which cost money to create and accumulate, but like any other fiat, the currency is only as good as the faith people put into it. It's just more obvious when you look at Bitcoin as opposed to gov't fiat that we are brainwashed into believing is safe, stable and will last.

Here's some easy math for you:

Is the USD appreciating in value verses Bitcoin? No.

Is Bitcoin appreciating in value verses the USD? Yes.

Is the USD appreciating in value against gold & silver? No.

Is gold & silver appreciating in value verses the USD? Yes.

Which is the better buy? Hint: Not USD.
RosesOnFire (OP)

User ID: 19352690
United States
12/25/2012 11:37 PM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
PM's and bitcoins are two totally different worlds. Don't even think for one second I would lump them together.

Your position with the early people are the rich ones in bitcoin is true with anything. Even the lucky souls that had a USD in 1913 were early bagholders of the USD under the federal reserve and had major value in those dollars.

The daily equivalent of that is when a dollar is printed or keystroked into existence, the first person that uses that dollar has the most purchasing value, and every time that dollar changes hands its value drops....somewhat similar to a used car getting sold every year. It will be sold for less and less.

Thats is not a store of value i want to be working with towards retirement. I'd always be swimming upstream.

Valuewise silver is the best in my opinion these days since so much of it has been destroyed, while in an increasingly electronic world the best electricity conductor will be in demand at an increasing rate.
.
Bitcoin now is more speculation (like any currency at the beginning) until acceptance is attained. Im saying from my small sampling in the world it seems that bit coin in gaining more and more acceptance, giving it inherently more and more value
www.pirateretirement.com
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 30746055
Mongolia
12/26/2012 12:00 AM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller

...



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30746055

BTC is not for everyone. There is risk involved. But since late 2011 it has been stable. Yes, there is daily volatility, but the historic charts show the overall trend, and it happens to be in the opposite direction of the ovedrall USD trend. The USD is headed for collapse, probably in 2013, of that I'm confident.

Gold & Silver are best in a crisis economy, but trading them online with liquidity is a bit trickier. Bitcoin is easy to trade online, and easy to convert to USD.

And it's not centralized. All gov'ts of the world could close shop and Bitcoin could still survive independently without them. I see it as a survival currency more than an investment. So that perspective makes it more attractive.

And I'm not worried about it's creator. Free markets allow people to get rich if others like their creations. I see nothing wrong with that. And thee creator has retired from his creation anyway. A group of people have been developing the source code since he left. And the code is readily observable by anyone, so anyone can see if it's being inflated artificially. No gov't fiat can compare to its transparency.

It is decentralized in that no gov't can control it or otherwise monopolize its creation. It's decentralized in that Bitcoin farms anywhere on earth can create it independent of any one country or person.

No one said it was free. It is a currency, and currencies are not free.

It is not natively untraceable, but it is able to be made less traceable for anyone who desires privacy with their transactions. There's no need for Big Brother to control the flow of money all over the earth. In doing so, they are just trying to monopolyze the world's wealth anyway.

If you love the USD and believe it has a bright future, then you will hate PM's and BTC. But if you hate FRN's and believe their days are numbered, then you will likely love PM's and BTC. In the end, it all depends on your perspective.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24113482


BTC and PM's are two totally differnet things.

You do a diservice to lump them togather.

And yeah sure - if the world likes something you create why not get rich.

In BITCOIN world where everyone has bitcoin the creator owns something like 5% of all the wealth of the planet. (yes i pulled that stat out of my arse it could be less and it could be more - i forget now - i looked into them in 2011 before the crash, it was something stupis though - something that would make him the richest guy on earth)

Seem fair? That the creator becomes the richest man in the world with his bitcoin?

does it seem fair that bitcoin operate as a ponzi, pyramid scheme - i.e. the more people get into them the more they become.

I'd say it won't seem fair to many people, and that is why you should not speak of PM's and bitcoins in the same sentance.

Becuase someone is unlikey to come along and invent something better and more ethical and stable than GOLD tomorrow- making my coins worthless overnight.

But someone could eaisily, and i think will, invent an alternative to bitcoin, and bitcoin will freefall back into the thin air it came from.


In a matter of hours - maybe days. From her to zero.

If you are selling bitcoins and making real coins, I think that is all cool, I'd just keep your bitcoin vault stocked on the light side, that is all.

5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30746055

BTC and PM's are similar in that that are an alternative means of storing and moving weealth (currency) than USD. can't you see this? And PM's rise inversly vs. the USD as the USD declines. And it's beginning to look like BTC is starting this trend as well.

I'm not worried about Bitcoin monopolizing the p2p digital currency world, thus making its creator the richest man on earth. Bitcoin is free-market, and that means if it becomes very successful, other competing options will come onto the market. Some are already here, but are not popular yet. I welcome the competition. The more the merrier. The market will work itself out, and some will win, and some will lose. That's the nature of a free-market, and why you need to be vigilent if you are a speculator.

It's not at all a Ponzi scheme. That's blatant disinfo propaganda. Here are the characteristics of a Ponzi scheme and how they compare to Bitcoin:

1. Extraordinary returns are promised. Bitcoin = No.
2. Descriptions of how the money is actually being made are vague. Bitcoin = The market determines the value based simply on supply & demand.
3. Returns for initial investors are paid by new investors. Bitcoin = No. There are no returns on investments. The value goes up only if the demand for the product goes up. The money for purchasing new Bitcoins does not flow to existing Bitcoin owners.
4. Withdrawal from the scheme is discouraged or even barred. Bitcoin = No. Free market trading is always open.
5. A person or group of people run the scheme, solicit new investors and will eventually take the money and run. Bitcoin = No. All bitcoins are open to independent trading without centralized interference or limitations. There is no money to be taken and ran with because there is no central depository for Bitcoin investment currencies. Bitcoin profits are completely decentralized.

So you see, your accusation of Bitcoin being Ponzi shceme doesn't hold up, and is simply not true. It's all an obvious smear campaign originating from someone attacking Bitcoin. But the real question is, why the attacks and libel?
RosesOnFire (OP)

User ID: 19352690
United States
12/26/2012 12:15 AM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
Anon Coward from Mongolia. You are alright. Anytime you want a bitcoin PM me and I will sell them to you at spot + 1% per MT. GOX's spot price. 1% just to cover the small transaction fees with dollar conversion and crap.
www.pirateretirement.com
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24113482
New Zealand
12/26/2012 12:18 AM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
OH- I am not an expert on what constitutes a PONZI scam from any other scam.

Thanks for the education.


I do disagree with some of your points.

see below in bold

It's not at all a Ponzi scheme. That's blatant disinfo propaganda. Here are the characteristics of a Ponzi scheme and how they compare to Bitcoin:

1. Extraordinary returns are promised. Bitcoin = No.
2. Descriptions of how the money is actually being made are vague. Bitcoin = The market determines the value based simply on supply & demand.THIS IS WHAT ATTRACTS SPECULATORS
3. Returns for initial investors are paid by new investors. Bitcoin = No. There are no returns on investments. The value goes up only if the demand for the product goes up. The money for purchasing new Bitcoins does not flow to existing Bitcoin owners.THERE WOULD BE RETURNS ON INVESTMENTS IF BOTCOIN TAKES OFF> HUGE RETURNS. JUST ASK THE GUYS WHO GOT IN EARLY AND GOT OUT IN 2011. PLEASE CHECK OPUT THE CHART I LINKED EARLIER. IF YOU BOUGHT BITCOINS TODAY AND THEY BECAME POPULAR IN YEARS TIME YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO EXCHANGE YOUR BITCOIN FOR A HUGE PROFIT - THIS IS WHAT INITIALLY INTERESTED ME IN THEM
4. Withdrawal from the scheme is discouraged or even barred. Bitcoin = No. Free market trading is always open.
5. A person or group of people run the scheme, solicit new investors and will eventually take the money and run. Bitcoin = No. All bitcoins are open to independent trading without centralized interference or limitations. There is no money to be taken and ran with because there is no central depository for Bitcoin investment currencies. Bitcoin profits are completely decentralized.NOT TRUE _ THE CREATOR OWNS A SHARE OR NUMBER OF BOTCOINS> THE WAY THE SYSTEM GOES THESE COINS REPRESENT A PERCENTAGE OF THE WHOLE WORLD OF BOTCOIN> THEREFORE THE BIGGER THIS BOTCOIN WORLD< THE MORE THE USERS< THE MORE THESE ORIGINAL OWNER COINS ARE WORTH _ POTENTIALLY IF SAY BOTCOIN TOOK OFF THIS WOULD MAKE HIM ONE OF THE RICHEST IF NOT THE RICHEST MEN IN THE WORLD

So you see, your accusation of Bitcoin being Ponzi shceme doesn't hold up, and is simply not true. It's all an obvious smear campaign originating from someone attacking Bitcoin. But the real question is, why the attacks and libel?

Attaqcks and libel - don't make me laugh. This is a forum for debating ideas. I am debating the idea of bitcoin with my OWN personal opinion. Just like the bitcoin dealer who started this thread to advertise them, I juat thought this thread needed some balance. IT DOES NEED SOME BALANCE. I hav4 said nothing here i would not say to a friend who told me he was going to buy some bitcoins. If you want to look for motives for pushing a belief please look to OP as he has the motive of making money from interest in the product he deals. I do not own a single shitcoin
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30746055


Okay i will admit - maybe i got it wrong technically on the exact description of ponzi scheme- but either way - for the owner its a scam, he makes a killing, a real huge killing if this ever takes offf ( more than he has already made)


I think anyone sensible would wait a long long time before getting into bitcoin as a store of wealth. Like give it a few years at least. The only other argument against caution is greed- and you are all about bitcoins not being about making huge returns. ( although that is what interested myself and probrably many many pothers in them in the first place)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24113482
New Zealand
12/26/2012 12:21 AM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
Anon Coward from Mongolia. You are alright. Anytime you want a bitcoin PM me and I will sell them to you at spot + 1% per MT. GOX's spot price. 1% just to cover the small transaction fees with dollar conversion and crap.
 Quoting: RosesOnFire


The real reason for this thread.

Not to discuss bitcoins.

But to sell them.

burnit
RosesOnFire (OP)

User ID: 19352690
United States
12/26/2012 12:41 AM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
Just showing off Bitcoin's low cost structure, and ease of worldwide dissemination.
www.pirateretirement.com
Chris12138

User ID: 30805524
United States
12/26/2012 12:41 AM

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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
Anon Coward from Mongolia. You are alright. Anytime you want a bitcoin PM me and I will sell them to you at spot + 1% per MT. GOX's spot price. 1% just to cover the small transaction fees with dollar conversion and crap.
 Quoting: RosesOnFire


The real reason for this thread.

Not to discuss bitcoins.

But to sell them.

burnit
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24113482


chuckle

You have to admit this thread has some interesting discussion.
EugeneOregonAwakened

User ID: 4123634
United States
12/26/2012 12:45 AM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
anywhere you are is local. do you mean you only sell bitcoins to your neighbors or something
Do You Guys Believe SevenOfNine and Chokotay Hook Up? Where Did That Come From?
RosesOnFire (OP)

User ID: 19352690
United States
12/26/2012 12:52 AM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
anywhere you are is local. do you mean you only sell bitcoins to your neighbors or something
 Quoting: EugeneOregonAwakened



lol good point. yes like anything new there there is a high level of mistrust until one truly understands what it is their brain is trying to grasp. No different than when whites first hit the shores of Africa and were scared of how Africans looked and recorded their feelings in the journals we read today. A form of xenophobia if you will.

I meet with people in my local area and discuss with them the whole bitcoin story and show examples of transactions on my phone to them. Everyone is from Missouri. They need to be shown.

[link to localbitcoins.com (secure)]

That is the obscure website I have been getting all my hits from the past few days.

Its still crazy whatever happened the last few days. IDK
www.pirateretirement.com
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 30746055
Mongolia
12/26/2012 02:05 AM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
OH- I am not an expert on what constitutes a PONZI scam from any other scam.

Thanks for the education.


I do disagree with some of your points.

see below in bold

It's not at all a Ponzi scheme. That's blatant disinfo propaganda. Here are the characteristics of a Ponzi scheme and how they compare to Bitcoin:

1. Extraordinary returns are promised. Bitcoin = No.
2. Descriptions of how the money is actually being made are vague. Bitcoin = The market determines the value based simply on supply & demand.THIS IS WHAT ATTRACTS SPECULATORS
3. Returns for initial investors are paid by new investors. Bitcoin = No. There are no returns on investments. The value goes up only if the demand for the product goes up. The money for purchasing new Bitcoins does not flow to existing Bitcoin owners.THERE WOULD BE RETURNS ON INVESTMENTS IF BOTCOIN TAKES OFF> HUGE RETURNS. JUST ASK THE GUYS WHO GOT IN EARLY AND GOT OUT IN 2011. PLEASE CHECK OPUT THE CHART I LINKED EARLIER. IF YOU BOUGHT BITCOINS TODAY AND THEY BECAME POPULAR IN YEARS TIME YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO EXCHANGE YOUR BITCOIN FOR A HUGE PROFIT - THIS IS WHAT INITIALLY INTERESTED ME IN THEM
4. Withdrawal from the scheme is discouraged or even barred. Bitcoin = No. Free market trading is always open.
5. A person or group of people run the scheme, solicit new investors and will eventually take the money and run. Bitcoin = No. All bitcoins are open to independent trading without centralized interference or limitations. There is no money to be taken and ran with because there is no central depository for Bitcoin investment currencies. Bitcoin profits are completely decentralized.NOT TRUE _ THE CREATOR OWNS A SHARE OR NUMBER OF BOTCOINS> THE WAY THE SYSTEM GOES THESE COINS REPRESENT A PERCENTAGE OF THE WHOLE WORLD OF BOTCOIN> THEREFORE THE BIGGER THIS BOTCOIN WORLD< THE MORE THE USERS< THE MORE THESE ORIGINAL OWNER COINS ARE WORTH _ POTENTIALLY IF SAY BOTCOIN TOOK OFF THIS WOULD MAKE HIM ONE OF THE RICHEST IF NOT THE RICHEST MEN IN THE WORLD

So you see, your accusation of Bitcoin being Ponzi shceme doesn't hold up, and is simply not true. It's all an obvious smear campaign originating from someone attacking Bitcoin. But the real question is, why the attacks and libel?

Attaqcks and libel - don't make me laugh. This is a forum for debating ideas. I am debating the idea of bitcoin with my OWN personal opinion. Just like the bitcoin dealer who started this thread to advertise them, I juat thought this thread needed some balance. IT DOES NEED SOME BALANCE. I hav4 said nothing here i would not say to a friend who told me he was going to buy some bitcoins. If you want to look for motives for pushing a belief please look to OP as he has the motive of making money from interest in the product he deals. I do not own a single shitcoin
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30746055


Okay i will admit - maybe i got it wrong technically on the exact description of ponzi scheme- but either way - for the owner its a scam, he makes a killing, a real huge killing if this ever takes offf ( more than he has already made)

I think anyone sensible would wait a long long time before getting into bitcoin as a store of wealth. Like give it a few years at least. The only other argument against caution is greed- and you are all about bitcoins not being about making huge returns. ( although that is what interested myself and probrably many many pothers in them in the first place)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24113482

Some investors understand that gold is getting ready to shoot up in value soon, problably higher than $3500 USD/oz. Some who act on this info will be called speculators. And if they profit from they fast rise, then good for them. It doesn't upset me any, even if they bought it all from an early trader who say bought in at $300 a decade ago and sat on it, and now will make millions from this deal. More power to all of them. But it's not a scam. It's just the market, the devaluation of the USD, and gold finally shooting up and out of the severe manipulation its been under for so long. I won't begrudge anyone for getting rich off these developments. The same goes with the rise in the value of Bitcoin. If it goes much higher that's great. If it goes much lower, then that's the price paid for speculating. Investors must do their own due-diligence and invest according to their appetite for risk.

But Bitcoin owners will not gain returns from future Bitcoin investors directly. If Bitcoin becomes more popular, and it's value goes up, that's a natural appreciation and not something to be feared. And if China issues a new currency that is tied to a gold standard, there'll be huge demand for that currency that could wreak havoc with their intent at price normalcy. But should we then fear to speculate on such a new currency? I don't think a spur in demand should cause such fears. Normally, investors will want to get in early on such a deal and ride the wave upwards. And that's exactly what's happened with Bitcoin. There's really little difference, except the China example hasn't happened yet, so it's still hypothetical, for now.

It doesn't bother me if the Bitcoin creator gets very rich off of this. Just like it didn't bother me when Bill Gates became the richest man in the world for a time. (his other actions and business practices do bother me, but that's a different story). If people freely choose to buy Microsoft products, then I don't care if Gates gets rich off of that. Just don't monopolize anything, that's my only gripe.

But other digital currencies have been made, and will continue to be made. And they are competing with Bitcoin, and will continue to compete with Bitcoin. So, I don't think the Bitcoin creator will corner the market on his decentralized and freely distributed digital currency system. There will be plenty of room in the marketplace for competition.

Yes, the value of the creator's Bitcoin will rise when the overall value of Bitcoin rises, but he can't steal everyone's investment money and make off with it, because he doesn't have everyone's investment money.

Also, I'm not suggesting you originated the Ponzi libel against Bitcoin, but you are perpetuating it. I question the motives of those who started that bit of propaganda.

If I make a new widget and everyone just has to have one, is it a scam if I become rich from it, even if it costs me little to make it? No. The market will dictate whether his invention has value or not. And so far, the market says Bitcoin does have value.

And yes, as a store of wealth it can be risky because there is no government promising to prop it up at all costs. But the same can be said of all fiat currencies right now, as it seems to be a race to the bottom with their value in a global attempt to bleed fiat as a means to keep the global economy from imploding.

But BTC can be an alternative for the coming hyperinflation when faith in things like the USD is lost. That's when it can come into it's own. And that's why I like it, as a digital alternative to failing national currencies. I'll keep gold & silver for my physical hedge, and I'll keep some BTC as my digital hedge too.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 24069096
United States
12/26/2012 10:55 AM
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Re: I am a local bitcoin seller
yeah increasing usage all around. got family members wanting info. not at the buying stage yet but went out of their way to ask me about it

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