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The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 09:00 PM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
Same can be said of Wagner's Ring of the Nibelungs (based on German and Norse myths). The gold hungry dwarves represent the jews. The story is very old and has been told in many different ways throughout the ages.
zenobiaphobia
While the deaf man sings along with the dumb

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12/26/2012 09:02 PM

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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
Just an aside but you may enjoy The Story of Sigurd from The Red Fairy Book
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Goethe's The Fairy Tale is a really good read, too.
One way to time travel:
[link to www.gutenberg.org]
From a universe without The Walker Brothers Thread: What the Hell am I Talking About?
Manu-Koelbren (OP)

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12/26/2012 09:04 PM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
Good posts folks, I am gonna check all the links when im back home.
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
Anonymous Coward
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12/26/2012 09:16 PM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
OP lets say everything you said is true. But lets also say that no one knows or even thinks that while watching the movie, and they just enjoy the movie walking away looking forward to the next one, and Happy.



coffee4
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25214501


Well some poster above said that LOTR saga has something that resonates with white Europeans. I honestly haven't done much research on Tolkien, but I sense there might be some truth to that.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


It's a fairy tale and set in a wild European type scenery. It has all the things that would fit in a European fantasy world of struggle and adventure. No surprise.

Tolkein drew on all sorts of old archetypes and the story has a pattern which could generally fit many situations.

You can assign identities to the various characters in line with with your theory, but I don't know if it's valid. I don't know if it was intentional... and who do we blame? The writer or the movie maker?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30273848


Tolkien was a student of history and languages, and I've read that he was influenced by the different mythologies of European peoples and specifically created Middle-earth to be a British mythology. He lived through some of the worst times of modern European history and this is obviously reflected in his black and white description of struggle between good and evil. I wouldn't read too far into it, just enjoy it for what it is.
Manu-Koelbren (OP)

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12/26/2012 09:27 PM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
OP lets say everything you said is true. But lets also say that no one knows or even thinks that while watching the movie, and they just enjoy the movie walking away looking forward to the next one, and Happy.



coffee4
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25214501


Well some poster above said that LOTR saga has something that resonates with white Europeans. I honestly haven't done much research on Tolkien, but I sense there might be some truth to that.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


It's a fairy tale and set in a wild European type scenery. It has all the things that would fit in a European fantasy world of struggle and adventure. No surprise.

Tolkein drew on all sorts of old archetypes and the story has a pattern which could generally fit many situations.

You can assign identities to the various characters in line with with your theory, but I don't know if it's valid. I don't know if it was intentional... and who do we blame? The writer or the movie maker?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30273848


Tolkien was a student of history and languages, and I've read that he was influenced by the different mythologies of European peoples and specifically created Middle-earth to be a British mythology. He lived through some of the worst times of modern European history and this is obviously reflected in his black and white description of struggle between good and evil. I wouldn't read too far into it, just enjoy it for what it is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4443279


You nordics are so dull, learn to look at all the quantum possibilities, even if they're not factual it's good to cover all the possible ramifications. It's more of an exercise than anything.
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
Anonymous Coward
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Belgium
12/31/2012 11:37 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
Same can be said of Wagner's Ring of the Nibelungs (based on German and Norse myths). The gold hungry dwarves represent the jews.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26945534

Do they ?
Do you perchance have some source to quote or link to ?
Anonymous Coward
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Belgium
12/31/2012 11:39 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
It is possible in later times the Nibelungen legend has been politicized, but I think originally the dwarves probably stood for "subterranean" forces in Man's soul (or something of the sort). Not sure, but I do suspect that much...
Jesus Christ
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01/01/2013 12:04 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
Tell them you found Jesus Christ on Yahoo answering questions in hopes that somebody with a brain realizes it. It's been a year since I've been back and the Evil I see around me is disturbing. Add me on Facebook:JC HOLY MAN Payne of the Holy Family the Royal Payne's.

Sin,
Your Excellency, Lord and King
Jesus S Aaron Uni Peg Unix Eisus Christ Payne
CEO of all I see Vatican City The Holy See
SON OF God
Manu-Koelbren (OP)

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01/01/2013 02:38 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
Tell them you found Jesus Christ on Yahoo answering questions in hopes that somebody with a brain realizes it. It's been a year since I've been back and the Evil I see around me is disturbing. Add me on Facebook:JC HOLY MAN Payne of the Holy Family the Royal Payne's.

Sin,
Your Excellency, Lord and King
Jesus S Aaron Uni Peg Unix Eisus Christ Payne
CEO of all I see Vatican City The Holy See
SON OF God
 Quoting: Jesus Christ 11579555


wtf
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
NonAlignedEntity

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01/01/2013 04:12 PM

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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
I offer for your further consideration 'The Last Ringbearer', a russian take on LOTR with the idea that the victor writes the history.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

Readily available for free online too.
Overstand, this isn't a sermon from the hill, but a 'Trespassers Will Be Shot' Sign.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
01/01/2013 04:36 PM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
How about some Truth in Adveristing:

Gen 10:21-31 KJV
(21) Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.
(22) The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.
(23) And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash.
(24) And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.
(25) And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.
(26) And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah,
(27) And Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah,
(28) And Obal, and Abimael, and Sheba,
(29) And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan.
(30) And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar a mount of the east.
(31) These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations.

These all are Shemitic, a.k.a. Semitic. `Eber is only one line.

All these as Semitic. So, I keep wondering why all these other people next to never get even mentioned in "Anti-Semitic" discussions, or for that matter what gets passed on as Snake-Oil of "Semetic". Don't you?

How about a great call and cry for Truth In Labeling, folks.

What 'those' who are always calling out in complaint, "Those Anti-Semitics", are themselves basically really Israelites and Jews.

Isn't time we get a bit clearer on Truth in Labeling?

I think it so, in fact I demand it be so.
 Quoting: Truth in Advertising 27972246


propoganda
Bilbo
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United Kingdom
01/16/2013 05:46 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
This piece lends some credence to your thoughts...

JRR Tolkien on Financiers

"The true equation is 'democracy' = government by world financiers...The main mark of modern governments is that we do not know who governs, de facto any more than de jure. We see the politician and not his backer; still less the backer of the backer; or what is most important of all, the banker of the backer. Enthroned above all, in a manner without parallel in all past, is the veiled prophet of finance, swaying all men living by a sort of magic, and delivering oracles in a language not understanded [sic] of the people."

J.R.R. Tolkien,
Candour Magazine, 13 July 1956, p. 12
Anonymous Coward
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01/16/2013 06:20 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
Hi OP,

I like your theory. Very skilled decoding of symbolism.

Keep in mind, Tolkien wrote this story as a tale to tell his children.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I doubt Tolkien had an Anti-Semitic message in mind when he wrote it. On the other hand, I do believe that Tolkien's subconscious had a huge impact on his writing, just like any other good writer gets influenced by his subconsciousness.

Have you ever tried to decode Lord of the Rings, since you obviously have a talent for such matters.

Oh, and btw. Judethz, you are a disgusting negative human being.
Bilbo
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01/16/2013 07:31 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
The 1956 quote from Tolkien spells out quite clearly that Tolkien was a very sharp man.
There is no mention of the ethnicity of the Bankers of the backers of the backers to our leaders.
This is right as we know that these Bankers are not necessarily Semites at all, they are mostly impostors.
So, in answer to your question, 'So does The Hobbit by Peter Jackson contain Anti-Semitic undertones?', perhaps we should replace the word Semetic with Bank/Financier. In which case I believe the answer to be yes.
Judeophile
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04/06/2013 10:37 PM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
[link to forward.com]

... Tolkien is one of the more unlikely figures in modern literary history on which to pin a badge of Jew-hater. In fact, Tolkien was something of a Judeophile. A philologist by training, he was familiar with Hebrew, and while he did indeed acknowledge basing his dwarves’ speech on Semitic languages, this was hardly the act of an anti-Semite. “I do think of the ‘Dwarves’ like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue,” he once wrote.

Although Tolkien refuted attempts to interpret “The Hobbit” and his “The Lord of the Rings” trilogy as allegory, it’s been remarked time and again that in no small way, Tolkien’s opus was to some extent a corrective rewrite of the Wagner Ring trilogy, particularly the composer’s overtly anti-Semitic representation of Jews as evil dwarves.

Both stories, of course, are quests for a magical ring. Both are populated with characters based on Norse mythology. Tolkien loved the old myths, and he was disgusted by Wagner’s perversion of them in the service of creating a modern racial mythology.

Tolkien was given the opportunity to stick it to Wagner posthumously — and he did, when he stood up to Adolf Hitler’s Nazi regime in its attempt to co-opt him to the Nazis’ side. When a German publisher that wanted to put out a German translation of his work requested verification that Tolkien was of pure Aryan blood, which Tolkien believed to be a not-so-subtle inquiry into whether or not he was part Jewish, Tolkien refused to play ball.

In a letter he drafted in response to the request, he replied, “I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by arisch. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware noone (sic) of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people.”

And to a friend, he wrote, “Do I suffer this impertinence because of the possession of a German name, or do their lunatic laws require a certificate of arisch origin from all persons of all countries?… Personally I should be inclined to refuse to give any Bestatigung [confirmation] (although it happens that I can), and let a German translation go hang. In any case I should object strongly to any such declaration appearing in print. I do not regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable; and I have many Jewish friends, and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine.”
sauron
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04/06/2013 10:48 PM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
And heeeeeeeere's the race card.

Everything has to be inherently racist in today's politically correct pussified world.
Michael Moore says firearms are racist, and now this guy is saying Tolkein is a bigot...
Does everyone just stay in bed in fear of getting their feelings hurt nowadays?
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
04/06/2013 11:13 PM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
Judethz is a whore, she just does that to provoke. so when you guys react to her little whore pictures and zionist bullshit,she is happy. marketing for shit

stop paying attention to her and her littles whores...then it has no point
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18920742


Judethz is actually an Old Zionist Jewish Man. Cannot believe you didn't know this.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30713276


pennywise
It is not jewish, it is kazhar, it has said that itself.

It identifies itself with real jewish people, it is mentally
ill, it should seek help, a psychiatrist might help but I
have my doubts.
Judeophile
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04/06/2013 11:27 PM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
And heeeeeeeere's the race card.

Everything has to be inherently racist in today's politically correct pussified world.
Michael Moore says firearms are racist, and now this guy is saying Tolkein is a bigot...
Does everyone just stay in bed in fear of getting their feelings hurt nowadays?
 Quoting: sauron 37543422


Did you actually read the quote? It says the exact opposite, that Tolkien was vocally anti-racist, even when a Nazi-era publisher attempted to co-opt his work.
Kirk

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04/07/2013 12:12 AM

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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
...


Well some poster above said that LOTR saga has something that resonates with white Europeans. I honestly haven't done much research on Tolkien, but I sense there might be some truth to that.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


It's a fairy tale and set in a wild European type scenery. It has all the things that would fit in a European fantasy world of struggle and adventure. No surprise.

Tolkein drew on all sorts of old archetypes and the story has a pattern which could generally fit many situations.

You can assign identities to the various characters in line with with your theory, but I don't know if it's valid. I don't know if it was intentional... and who do we blame? The writer or the movie maker?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30273848


Tolkien was a student of history and languages, and I've read that he was influenced by the different mythologies of European peoples and specifically created Middle-earth to be a British mythology. He lived through some of the worst times of modern European history and this is obviously reflected in his black and white description of struggle between good and evil. I wouldn't read too far into it, just enjoy it for what it is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4443279


You nordics are so dull, learn to look at all the quantum possibilities, even if they're not factual it's good to cover all the possible ramifications. It's more of an exercise than anything.
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


wasn't a lot of it letters to his children at home since he was stationed in North Africa or something like that?
Worry is a misuse of the imagination.
Free Planet
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04/07/2013 12:40 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
in the preceeding book The Silmarillion, the 'wizards' Saruman and Gandalf are known as the ISTAR! and the original inhabitants of Earth are known as the NUMENOREANS.

Ishtar!!! [link to en.wikipedia.org]

Menorah!!! [link to en.wikipedia.org]

Hell-o!
Free Planet
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04/07/2013 12:41 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
"And did those feet..." King of Edessa [link to mikephilbin.blogspot.co.uk]
Anonymous Coward
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04/07/2013 12:47 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
Hope so, might actually be a pretty good movie then
Anonymous Coward
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04/07/2013 01:02 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
Anything can mean anything when you tear it apart and disect it looking for a certain theme.

Great book, good movie.
Anonymous Coward
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04/07/2013 01:20 AM
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Re: The Hobbit film from an Anti-Semitic perspective.
She's a tard,
 Quoting: Manu-Koelbren


:tardis:
 Quoting: Judethz

So get in your Tardis and leave already.
You can head back to the Planet of The Slutty Young Chicks can't you?
Or were you deported.
Oy vey!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4473716


There's a planet of slutty young chicks?

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