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I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 01:54 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
I figured this out yrs ago..its called reading the Bible
OhlongJohnson (OP)

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12/28/2012 01:57 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Just stop already. Can't you see it? Black or White, Coke or Pepsi, guns vs no guns, democrat or republican, pre trib or post trib.

Stop!

The bible and the apocrypha have the truth, God will reveal the truth if you repent and confess and ask him to reveal it. Please have faith! Please!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31001340


Dont worry i am and thank you for reminding to trust nothing that comes from man
This world is fading away along with everything it craves, but if you do the will of god you will live forever. 1 John 2:17

For everything comes from god alone.Everything lives by his power, and everything is for his glory. Romans 11:36
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 02:01 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
the word of god!
 Quoting: OhlongJohnson


God has no words. The words are an illusion.
ru1im2

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12/28/2012 02:04 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Simply put... if you don't believe in the pre-trib you WILL be left behind


The Five Foolish Virgins

The wedding story that Jesus gave in Matthew 25:2-13, I believe, is a parable of the rapture of the Church. It explains how some will not be ready. Jesus clearly states that a group of people will miss out on an event, and will cry out to God to let them into the place where He resides, heaven. Although some try to put this parable in a post-trib context, it doesn't fit very well. The ones left behind in a post-trib rapture will not need to seek the Lord because they'll immediately be confronted by Him and His army of angels.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1581136


The 5 foolish virgins had to go back and "buy" from those who "sold" thereby receiving the mark of the beast.
TheCartel

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12/28/2012 02:14 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Bump , for later
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 02:39 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Great interview with the guy who made the film:

Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 02:42 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
there is no such thing as rapture Christians made this up
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 02:58 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video


They bust and break down the pre-tribulation rapture with the word of god! It explains that the rapture will happen after the tribulation
 Quoting: OhlongJohnson


If the Rapture takes place after the Tribulation, who exactly repopulates the planet after Jesus sets up His earthly kingdom? Oops, didn't think about that! The Resurrection from the dead doesn't happen until the 1,000-year kingdom ends, so the only bodies available for the earthly kingdom must be the tribulation survivors, and then only those who accept Christ as their savior. The Rapture happens sometime before the Day of Wrath (i.e. before the second half of the 7-year Tribulation).
cmoG530

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12/28/2012 03:16 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Thread: Debunking The "Rapture" TAKE The Time To Read ALL Of It

Nothing BUT Scripture. Will help debunk any rapture believer, thank you Lord. God bless.

Last Edited by cmoG530 on 12/28/2012 03:21 AM
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Isaiah 9:6 KJV
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Mark 16:16 KJV
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:38 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Romans 8:6-9 KJV
6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Matthew 15:8-9 KJV
8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Acts 5:29 KJV
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

"The biggest sign from God, to let us all know that man can never be God? Death." - Anonymous
Stoned Prophet

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12/28/2012 03:24 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Revelation 6:7-8

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.



Notice how Hell follows Death. Hell does not ride with Death, but after because Death rides first.

So when the 3rd seal of Revelation is completed and people are working a day for a loaf of bread, then the 4th seal will come next.

The angel of Death is a kind of "pre-trib rapture" for the Christians living in that doomed 1/4th part of the Earth. Death will come in the night and take them to Heaven while they are sleeping. Then Hell will follow and judge the lost (like 98% or so).

So if you live in the USA keep watching the food prices. That is the sign for your rapid departure.

PS: Remember that an exact of order of 21 events was given in the book of Revelation. ANYONE who says those events will happen in a different order is a BLASTPHEMER because they imply the Holy Spirit is incompetent and couldn't get the numbers right. Totally laughable ...
Brian Moser

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12/28/2012 03:51 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Excuse me for being the voice of reason and playing Devil's (no pun intended) Advocate here, but how accurate do you consider these prophecies to be?

I mean, let's look at this from a skeptic's perspective. As part of the brain's development throughout one's lifetime, we not only learn through patterns\repetition but unintentionally look for coincidences and conclude connections that don't really exist.

Perhaps the point-of-view is that it is not convincing to predict seven very general events to happen especially if they rely on a sequence that is constantly rationalized.

To say that there will be a single being who is the "antichrist" is quite general. It is part of our nature for different civilizations to try and control one another. To expect a species to ultimately come to this system of ranking is quite common. Speaking metaphorically, there will always be the proverbial "alpha male" whether it refers to an individual or an entire nation.

You have things that happen all the time - disease, war, famine, earthquakes, astrological anomalies etc. We'll come back to this in a minute.

Now we reach the "fool-proof loophole" part of the prophecy, where not only are the believers convinced that the prophecy is true but that they must fundamentally defend it to nay-sayers. I could tell you right now that people will try to prove my logic to be wrong and it would make me no more divine than these predictions.

The "seven trumpets" can be interpreted much more freely than the other signs. Again, we look for connections that aren't really there and this forces believers to find significance in the number 7.

Claiming a book to have prophetic value based on these conditions is about the same as some AC making a topic and saying "California will experience an earthquake within the next week" and expecting to be credited as a psychic.

All of those events have happened and continue to happen throughout history because they are characteristic of both human behavior and the environment. Scholars have been labeling different leaders as "the antichrist" since the 1st century. Earthquakes, famine, war and all those factors occur all the time, but the bottom line is that because the prophecies are written so generally, people choose to decide which events fit appropriately to the sequence.

I'm not here to turn you away from any belief, whether it is Christian, atheist or anything in between. I simply suggest that certain people need to stop expecting doom to be imminent so they can enjoy this life they were blessed with more appropriately. The cycle of being good to yourself so you can more fluently be good to others is a never-ending pattern that has led us to our species survival to date.
ru1im2

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12/28/2012 04:03 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Excuse me for being the voice of reason and playing Devil's (no pun intended) Advocate here, but how accurate do you consider these prophecies to be?

I mean, let's look at this from a skeptic's perspective. As part of the brain's development throughout one's lifetime, we not only learn through patterns\repetition but unintentionally look for coincidences and conclude connections that don't really exist.

Perhaps the point-of-view is that it is not convincing to predict seven very general events to happen especially if they rely on a sequence that is constantly rationalized.

To say that there will be a single being who is the "antichrist" is quite general. It is part of our nature for different civilizations to try and control one another. To expect a species to ultimately come to this system of ranking is quite common. Speaking metaphorically, there will always be the proverbial "alpha male" whether it refers to an individual or an entire nation.

You have things that happen all the time - disease, war, famine, earthquakes, astrological anomalies etc. We'll come back to this in a minute.

Now we reach the "fool-proof loophole" part of the prophecy, where not only are the believers convinced that the prophecy is true but that they must fundamentally defend it to nay-sayers. I could tell you right now that people will try to prove my logic to be wrong and it would make me no more divine than these predictions.

The "seven trumpets" can be interpreted much more freely than the other signs. Again, we look for connections that aren't really there and this forces believers to find significance in the number 7.

Claiming a book to have prophetic value based on these conditions is about the same as some AC making a topic and saying "California will experience an earthquake within the next week" and expecting to be credited as a psychic.

All of those events have happened and continue to happen throughout history because they are characteristic of both human behavior and the environment. Scholars have been labeling different leaders as "the antichrist" since the 1st century. Earthquakes, famine, war and all those factors occur all the time, but the bottom line is that because the prophecies are written so generally, people choose to decide which events fit appropriately to the sequence.

I'm not here to turn you away from any belief, whether it is Christian, atheist or anything in between. I simply suggest that certain people need to stop expecting doom to be imminent so they can enjoy this life they were blessed with more appropriately. The cycle of being good to yourself so you can more fluently be good to others is a never-ending pattern that has led us to our species survival to date.
 Quoting: Brian Moser


Do you have any specific Bible verses that you would like to mention or are you just going to make generalizations just like the ones you are condemning?
1doh1
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12/28/2012 04:19 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Religitards get exponentially more stupid by the second.
Brian Moser

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12/28/2012 04:35 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Excuse me for being the voice of reason and playing Devil's (no pun intended) Advocate here, but how accurate do you consider these prophecies to be?

I mean, let's look at this from a skeptic's perspective. As part of the brain's development throughout one's lifetime, we not only learn through patterns\repetition but unintentionally look for coincidences and conclude connections that don't really exist.

Perhaps the point-of-view is that it is not convincing to predict seven very general events to happen especially if they rely on a sequence that is constantly rationalized.

To say that there will be a single being who is the "antichrist" is quite general. It is part of our nature for different civilizations to try and control one another. To expect a species to ultimately come to this system of ranking is quite common. Speaking metaphorically, there will always be the proverbial "alpha male" whether it refers to an individual or an entire nation.

You have things that happen all the time - disease, war, famine, earthquakes, astrological anomalies etc. We'll come back to this in a minute.

Now we reach the "fool-proof loophole" part of the prophecy, where not only are the believers convinced that the prophecy is true but that they must fundamentally defend it to nay-sayers. I could tell you right now that people will try to prove my logic to be wrong and it would make me no more divine than these predictions.

The "seven trumpets" can be interpreted much more freely than the other signs. Again, we look for connections that aren't really there and this forces believers to find significance in the number 7.

Claiming a book to have prophetic value based on these conditions is about the same as some AC making a topic and saying "California will experience an earthquake within the next week" and expecting to be credited as a psychic.

All of those events have happened and continue to happen throughout history because they are characteristic of both human behavior and the environment. Scholars have been labeling different leaders as "the antichrist" since the 1st century. Earthquakes, famine, war and all those factors occur all the time, but the bottom line is that because the prophecies are written so generally, people choose to decide which events fit appropriately to the sequence.

I'm not here to turn you away from any belief, whether it is Christian, atheist or anything in between. I simply suggest that certain people need to stop expecting doom to be imminent so they can enjoy this life they were blessed with more appropriately. The cycle of being good to yourself so you can more fluently be good to others is a never-ending pattern that has led us to our species survival to date.
 Quoting: Brian Moser


Do you have any specific Bible verses that you would like to mention or are you just going to make generalizations just like the ones you are condemning?
1doh1
 Quoting: ru1im2


I was under the impression everyone here already knew which verses specifically pertained to the seven seals and that it would be redundant to add them to this thread again.

So, you do agree that they are quite general?
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 04:42 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Great video, I watched the whole thing. This has definitely altered my view of things. I'm gonna share this video with some of friends and family. Thanks for posting.hf
No Dhimmi
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12/28/2012 05:36 AM

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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
2 Thessalonians 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

No Temple Yet = No Tribulation

Paul makes it clear he is talking about “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him” (2:1). He says, “let no one in anyway deceive you” (2:3). Paul says two things must happen before “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him”. 1. Apostasy or falling away (2:3). We see this happening at least in part today. Much of the church is drifting away from the fundamentals of the faith. 2. The man of sin or lawlessness must be revealed (2:3-5). He will oppose God to the place of sitting in the temple of God displaying himself as being God. Read also Daniel 9:24-27 and Matthew 24:15. Both of these things must take place before Jesus returns for His church. This makes it abundantly clear that Jesus’ return for us cannot happen until sometime after the Antichrist sits in the temple demanding worship and claiming to be God.

Revelation 20

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

First Resurrection includes the rapture. (Dead In Christ)
And this includes Tribulation Saints.

Last Edited by No Dhimmi on 12/28/2012 07:18 AM
Background of my avatar: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

The religion of submission cannot survive an open and honest discussion of its convoluted and foolish scriptures, its sexually perverted terrorist prophet, or its deceitful and demented god. When Western leaders become unified and resolute in their hostility to Islam's violent and ungodly beginnings, Muslims will flee the religion because they will be horrified by its endorsement of terrorism, mass murder, slave trading, plunder, kidnapping, and rape.

If Muslims & their apologists really want to cure "Islamophobia," here is an easy way. Focus their indignation on Muslims committing violent acts in the name of Islam, not on non-Muslims reporting on those acts.
[link to www.cspipublishing.com]
[link to www.faithfreedom.org]
[link to thereligionofpeace.com]
[link to www.bibleprobe.com]
[link to www.fatherzakaria.net]

Ecclesiastes 10:2 “The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.”

We are all born ignorant, but it takes a lot of work to keep looking the other way to remain stupid.

Islam is not a race - the racism rant is lame, used by the intellectually lazy to derail the debate.
Stoned Prophet

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12/28/2012 06:19 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Excuse me for being the voice of reason and playing Devil's (no pun intended) Advocate here, but how accurate do you consider these prophecies to be?

I mean, let's look at this from a skeptic's perspective. As part of the brain's development throughout one's lifetime, we not only learn through patterns\repetition but unintentionally look for coincidences and conclude connections that don't really exist.

Perhaps the point-of-view is that it is not convincing to predict seven very general events to happen especially if they rely on a sequence that is constantly rationalized.

To say that there will be a single being who is the "antichrist" is quite general. It is part of our nature for different civilizations to try and control one another. To expect a species to ultimately come to this system of ranking is quite common. Speaking metaphorically, there will always be the proverbial "alpha male" whether it refers to an individual or an entire nation.

You have things that happen all the time - disease, war, famine, earthquakes, astrological anomalies etc. We'll come back to this in a minute.

Now we reach the "fool-proof loophole" part of the prophecy, where not only are the believers convinced that the prophecy is true but that they must fundamentally defend it to nay-sayers. I could tell you right now that people will try to prove my logic to be wrong and it would make me no more divine than these predictions.

The "seven trumpets" can be interpreted much more freely than the other signs. Again, we look for connections that aren't really there and this forces believers to find significance in the number 7.

Claiming a book to have prophetic value based on these conditions is about the same as some AC making a topic and saying "California will experience an earthquake within the next week" and expecting to be credited as a psychic.

All of those events have happened and continue to happen throughout history because they are characteristic of both human behavior and the environment. Scholars have been labeling different leaders as "the antichrist" since the 1st century. Earthquakes, famine, war and all those factors occur all the time, but the bottom line is that because the prophecies are written so generally, people choose to decide which events fit appropriately to the sequence.

I'm not here to turn you away from any belief, whether it is Christian, atheist or anything in between. I simply suggest that certain people need to stop expecting doom to be imminent so they can enjoy this life they were blessed with more appropriately. The cycle of being good to yourself so you can more fluently be good to others is a never-ending pattern that has led us to our species survival to date.
 Quoting: Brian Moser


The 1st, and seals are non descriptive so there is no way of proving they have been broken. The 3rd seal is a "WORLDWIDE" famine (Not Ethiopia, bla bla) This is a strong sign BUT it cannot be FULLY proven too. The 4th seal is a world war where everyone dies in area that is about 25% of the landmass on Earth. This is a region, not 25% of the people, and this has never happened before in recorded history !!

The 4th seal is the DEFINITIVE(not general) sign of the end times, because the remaining Christians in the 75% of the Earth will know exactly where they are in the Book of Revelation. Until this event no one has been sure. Lots of hot air and BS, but no proof. The 4th seal will be the PROOF that the Lord is coming soon.

Then the Holy Spirit will pour out the latter rain. Miracles will be common place. The whole world will know about Jesus. This will happen in the fifth seal.

Then Satan will not be able to corrupt and pervert the NEW Christians. So he will have his servants start slaughtering them. This mass martyrdom will bring about the 6th seal which is the start of the day of the Lord.

I agree with what you are saying in general because wars and famines are the norm. But the 4th seal is not the norm. It is the endtime trap for the "lukewarm" Western Christians. It will sneak up on them like a thief in the night and the Lord is going to spit them out of His mouth. After it is done every Christian left will know HE HAS SPOKEN and has JUDGED. This is why when the 6th seal is broken everyone knows He is coming and they will crawl into the caves and hide themselves.

I am real prophet, and I have freely given this unpleasant information to you. I don't expect you to believe me, but never the less, my words will be fulfilled soon because the Lord is coming. He is coming SLOWLY in the EXACT order He said He would.
YESNO
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
no
Stoned Prophet

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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

No Temple Yet = No Tribulation

Paul makes it clear he is talking about “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him” (2:1). He says, “let no one in anyway deceive you” (2:3). Paul says two things must happen before “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him”. 1. Apostasy or falling away (2:3). We see this happening at least in part today. Much of the church is drifting away from the fundamentals of the faith. 2. The man of sin or lawlessness must be revealed (2:3-5). He will oppose God to the place of sitting in the temple of God displaying himself as being God. Read also Daniel 9:24-27 and Matthew 24:15. Both of these things must take place before Jesus returns for His church. This makes it abundantly clear that Jesus’ return for us cannot happen until sometime after the Antichrist sits in the temple demanding worship and claiming to be God.
Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

First Resurrection includes the rapture. (Dead In Christ)
And this includes Tribulation Saints.
 Quoting: No Dhimmi


Good Points. Here are some more:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

For the UNLUCKY few left at the Lord's coming:

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Death is when your spirit leaves your body. In order for "raptured" Christian's to get a new incorruptible body their spirit has to leave the old corrupt body. They die too, except they go straight into a new body. Still they die. So this whole rapture doctrine thing is a non issue and not worth discussing because there is no crown for being raptured.

Funny thing is even though the rapturetards are wrong scripturally, they do glorify the Lord and He is sending the angel of Death in the 4th seal to take them home to Heaven first. He is good and will not subject his people to His wrath.

I can also tell them "roughly" about when they will be "raptured" but they hate the words "angel of Death" and will not believe me.

Last Edited by Stoned Prophet on 12/28/2012 06:43 AM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Why does it matter?

Everyone is going to die sooner or later.

If you truly know Jesus Christ in your heart then
you have entrusted your life in your faith.

Fear is an illusion. It doesn't exist. It's a mind
trick to get you to think you can do something about things
you have no control of that may or may not happen anyways.

The past is over. The future will happen regardless.
All there is - the present, right now.

You can either seize right now in truth or an illusion of something that isn't right now - that is free will.

The purpose of fear is to stray you from your faith.

Just try this: Every time fear comes into your thoughts, make yourself smile. The physical act of smiling produces joy.
Happiness in a moment is the exercise of free will.

Evil cannot exist in your mind unless you allow it too.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28689320


Perfect. My sentiments exactly.
MHz

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12/28/2012 07:31 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Evil cannot exist in your mind unless you allow it too.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28689320

Resist it all you want, it is the evil in somebody else's mind that brings trouble to your life.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
They bust and break down the pre-tribulation rapture with the word of god!
 Quoting: OhlongJohnson


:grizzy: No they don't, they are speaking a load of crap, trying to lull people into letting their guard down. The fact is that even Jesus Christ Himself dosn't know. So who the hell are they to say different. Today half a million or so people will die, non of us can guarantee that we will still be drawing breath tomorrow, so now is the time to get your relationship right with the Lord.

Mar 13:32 ¶ But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.


WHEN WILL THE RAPTURE BE

Basically I think that there is only one correct answer and that is... today. Note that there are two classes of the blessed. Class I Those who are dead in Christ. Class II Those who are alive in Christ.

Now someone who is in Class I was obviously at some time in the past a member of Class II. Non of us can guarantee that we will still be drawing breath at this time tomorrow. So this is not a matter that you can comfortably "put off". As is the common human tendency when faced with a decision. In fact putting it off is in fact a decision in and of it's self. You might be blessed with a little more time, but don't count on it. The risks and consequences of dying in your sins are just to great. All of us are skating on thin ice.



1Th 4:13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


WHERE DID THEY GO?... [link to www.chick.com]
 Quoting: Judethz


These scriptures are regarding THE DAY OF WRATH, which is the day Jesus comes back, which according to Matt 24:29-31, and Mark 13 is AFTER the tribulation.

Tribulation according to the Bible means persecution, and the word tribulation is described 20 times as Christians enduring persecution (tribulation) before Jesus returns.

The danger in believing a pre-trib rapture is not based in scripture...its based on the Scofield study Bible, which was delivered to every seminary in the USA around 1909-1911, and in its notes it says pre trib rapture.

Its clear we will endure tribulation but NOT Gods wrath. Matt 13:21 defines tribulation, Matt24 Mark 13 tell us WHEN the tribulation will be, what happens after the tribulation (sun darkened moon not showing its light) then Jesus will appear in the clouds, trumpets sound, dead rise, then the believers are taken up, then Gods wrath comes.

Its all IN the Bible....pre trib is the popular teaching, because of Darby, Scofield, other MENs INTERPRETATIONS the medias BS (left behind is NOT scripture).

The Bible is VERY CLEAR on this, so dont be deceived sister.
Drummy
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12/28/2012 07:47 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
What other Christian deception was introduced around 1820-1830?

We have John Darby and the pre-trib rapture (1830)

Joseph Smith book of Mormon (1830)

hmmmmm

There is NO scripture that states, "Christians will not endure any tribulation (persecution)"
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 07:49 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Revelation 6:7-8

7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.



Notice how Hell follows Death. Hell does not ride with Death, but after because Death rides first.

So when the 3rd seal of Revelation is completed and people are working a day for a loaf of bread, then the 4th seal will come next.

The angel of Death is a kind of "pre-trib rapture" for the Christians living in that doomed 1/4th part of the Earth. Death will come in the night and take them to Heaven while they are sleeping. Then Hell will follow and judge the lost (like 98% or so).

So if you live in the USA keep watching the food prices. That is the sign for your rapid departure.

PS: Remember that an exact of order of 21 events was given in the book of Revelation. ANYONE who says those events will happen in a different order is a BLASTPHEMER because they imply the Holy Spirit is incompetent and couldn't get the numbers right. Totally laughable ...
 Quoting: Stoned Prophet


The angel of death in not a KINDA pre trib rapture. Thats YOUR interpretation. The angel of death will not rapture the Christians to Heaven, JESUS WILL
MHz

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12/28/2012 07:52 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Technically there is a way around it, Satan doesn't care who he kills just as long as the numbers are high.

De:4:29:
But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God,
thou shalt find him,
if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
De:4:30:
When thou art in tribulation,
and all these things are come upon thee,
even in the latter days,

if thou turn to the LORD thy God,
and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
De:4:31:
(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;)
he will not forsake thee,
neither destroy thee,
nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
waterman

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12/28/2012 08:09 AM

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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
The tribulation is 10 years not 7. Nobody sees the extra 42 months in front of the 7 year tribulation. Revelation 2:10 tells us it will be 10 years:
Rev. 2:10:
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days(years): be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

There are 4 groups of people on the rapture:

Is your faith in Jesus Christ or is it in the rapture, It will be tested!

1. Pre-tribulation rapture
2. Mid-tribulation rapture
3. Post-tribulation rapture
4. No tribulation rapture


How long is tribulation?
The end of the age of grace is the beginning of the 70th week of daniel, or 7 year tribulation.


I think we all know that in the bible a day can equal a year or a day can equal a thousand years. In this next verse we see in the book of revelation the devil will throw some of you into prison that you may be tested 10 days. We will all be tested but some for only 42 months. Did you see it said "some of you will be tested 10 days(years), not all only some. Wouldn't that be nice if it was only 10 days..It is 10 years, 42 months before the 7 year tribulation for a total of 10 and a half year tribulation not 11 years but 10 and a half years
But look in Revelation 2:10 it says we have 10 days(years) of tribulation
Remember the church will be here until the beginning of the 7 year tribulation because the end of "the age of grace" doesn't come until the beginning of the last 7 years. Then those who remained faithful through the 42 months prior to the 7 will be in the rapture

Revelation 2:10

10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days(years). Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

There are 7 churches in Revelation, but we know there is only one church of God so these 7 churches are different levels of where people are in relationship to Jesus Christ.

God sends a strong delusion that if it were possible it would fool even the elect:
Watch!
1. We know the man of sin comes at the beginning of the 7 year tribulation. He makes a covenant with many for 1 week(7 years)
2 There was a great falling away first, why because 42 months of tribualation prior to the 7 year tribulation comes and there is no rapture, people lose faith in God.
3. The great delusion is there is a 42 month period prior to the 7 year tribulation to see who is faithful and who is only faithful to a rapture card.
<< 2 Thessalonians 2 >>
King James Version
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Revelation 3:10 KJV

In the above verse, Pre-tribbers claim that Jesus will rapture the church before the tribulation. They claim the "hour of temptation" refers to the tribulation and "I will also keep them from" refers to Jesus' removal of the church from the earth. When translators have written "I will also keep the from the hour...," pre-tribbers claim "kept from" should have been translated "kept out of."

Before we examine this part of scripture, we must examine the first part of Jesus' message to the Philadelphian church.

"And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, no man openeth;

"I know thy works, behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know I loved thee.

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep the from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." (the hour of temptation is the 7 year tribulation, how did you keep the word of His patience, you endured the 42 months prior to the 7 year tribulation that the preachers aren't telling you about) Don't worry little flock God won't let a single tribulation come to you.WRONG!

Jesus said These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

People don't be deceived we are all gonna go through the 42 months of tribulation prior to the 7 and that 42 months is the destruction of the united states and being carried captive into other countries, be faithful to Jesus through that and you will see a rapture.
Revelation 2:10

Revelation 2:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days(years): be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Heed the warning or endure the mourning
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 08:11 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
Evil cannot exist in your mind unless you allow it too.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28689320

Resist it all you want, it is the evil in somebody else's mind that brings trouble to your life.
 Quoting: MHz


Evil is not in your mind, it's in the dark part of your Soul/Heart. It's the one, that gives you negative thoughts and emotions.
Amityschild

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12/28/2012 08:14 AM

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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
The Rapture, The Revelation & The Resurrections Demystified! - Part 1


What is the Strong Delusion? What is the Lie, What causes the Falling Away?

[link to www.tribulation-now.org]
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 08:15 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
The Bible is absolutely clear about this, there is no pre-trib rapture. Matt 13:21 defines tribulation for us:

For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

There are 20 times the word tribulation is used in regards to what Christians will ENDURE. Jesus tells us we WILL endure tribulation, but NOT Gods wrath.

Matt 24, Luke 13

Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So Jesus comes back AFTER the tribulation to rapture his church, its ver clear in these scriptures it will happen in this order.

Pre-trib rapture was first preached by John Darby in 1830, and later codified in the Scofield study Bible, which was sent to almost every seminary in the US. Its interesting to note that the Scofield Bible is missing scripture, has study notes that say it will be a "pre trib" rapture, and because its left out scripture should be considered false doctrine.

The enemy wants us to believe in a pre trib rapture, because it will be easier for the elect (believers) to be deceived if they are not watching the signs leading up to Jesus' return.

Anyone know what other false doctrine was introduced in 1830?

Book of Mormon
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 08:18 AM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

No Temple Yet = No Tribulation

Paul makes it clear he is talking about “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him” (2:1). He says, “let no one in anyway deceive you” (2:3). Paul says two things must happen before “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him”. 1. Apostasy or falling away (2:3). We see this happening at least in part today. Much of the church is drifting away from the fundamentals of the faith. 2. The man of sin or lawlessness must be revealed (2:3-5). He will oppose God to the place of sitting in the temple of God displaying himself as being God. Read also Daniel 9:24-27 and Matthew 24:15. Both of these things must take place before Jesus returns for His church. This makes it abundantly clear that Jesus’ return for us cannot happen until sometime after the Antichrist sits in the temple demanding worship and claiming to be God.
Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

First Resurrection includes the rapture. (Dead In Christ)
And this includes Tribulation Saints.
 Quoting: No Dhimmi


Good Points. Here are some more:

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

For the UNLUCKY few left at the Lord's coming:

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Death is when your spirit leaves your body. In order for "raptured" Christian's to get a new incorruptible body their spirit has to leave the old corrupt body. They die too, except they go straight into a new body. Still they die. So this whole rapture doctrine thing is a non issue and not worth discussing because there is no crown for being raptured.

Funny thing is even though the rapturetards are wrong scripturally, they do glorify the Lord and He is sending the angel of Death in the 4th seal to take them home to Heaven first. He is good and will not subject his people to His wrath.

I can also tell them "roughly" about when they will be "raptured" but they hate the words "angel of Death" and will not believe me.
 Quoting: Stoned Prophet


The angel of death is not coming to rapture Christians, Jesus is.

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