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I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 01:08 PM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
....Xcellent thread...but shall we get right on down to the nitty gritty....? When is Jesus coming back...anyway...? The standard all around response from pre-tribbers & Sunday go to meeting christians....WELL...."NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR"...fine...WHAT ABOUT THE WEEK ,THE MONTH, & THE YEAR...? Does scripture give us any indication....? It most certainly does ! Right here...DANIEL 12:11,12 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation set up,there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days". (NOTE) significant we see an additional 30 day's here as opposed to the 1260 day's/42 months ...as versed in Rev.11,12,13 etc. V.12 "Blessed is he that waiteth,and cometh to the thousand three hundred five and thirty days"...(NOTE) now we see an additional 45 days from the 1290 mark and 75 days from the original 1260 mark...WHAT IS BROTHER DANIEL TRYING TO TELL US HERE...? HOW about start counting....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 Quoting: searcher 26801296


I think that there is a possibility that we are approx. 2 years and 3 months into Daniel's 70th week. I view it as a rule out possibility. In Sept of 2010 our president had the leaders of Israel and Palestine to his office. This is the first time this has ever happened. It was not too well publicized. Following this a UN mtg was conveyed and more than likely discussed the results of the mtg. Interestingly the UN mtg was scheduled at a time of a major Jewish holiday.....and the leader of Israel could not attend. I found this to be a great insult to him.


The gulf oil spill......I feel that it was deliberately blown up. We will see how this disaster plays out for the Southern States in the future. It was blown up on Hitler's birthday......and the official sealing of the well was on Sept 19, 2010.......at around the same time that the possible peace covenant was agreed upon in Washington D.C.


As far as the exact timing of seeing the Lord......it is impossible to determine exactly although we can estimate. We certainly will know when the 5th Seal begins.....the great persecution of Israel and Christians. God can hide you....and fight the battle for you.....but you must not be shaken....and you must have faith that He can easily deliver you.


From the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week onward......you will have approx. 2 years of persecution......then worldwide darkness for an unspecified period of time (6th Seal)......then God's wrath (7th Seal). God's wrath will go on for approx. 1.5 years. The 5th trumpet judgement by itself is 5 months in duration.


After the darkness.....you will see the Sign of the Lord in the Sky.....a great flash of light from the east horizon to the west. You will then be caught up by angels to be with the Lord for the marriage supper of the lamb. You will then return with him as part of His army on white horses at the end of the 70th week to destroy the armies standing against Him.


Because the length of the 6th Seal (darkness) is not specified.....it is therefore impossible to determine the exact day that you will be caught up by the angels to be with the Lord. But you can estimate a general time period.......approx. two years in from the mid-point of the 70th week.


God will end the persecution (5th Seal)......otherwise no flesh would be saved. Then darkness will come upon the earth. The elites will hide in fear in caves and declare that God's wrath is about to begin.
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 02:07 PM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
....I am far from certain that we've even entered the final week/7 years...
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 02:19 PM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
....I am far from certain that we've even entered the final week/7 years...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26801296


True...it is not certain yet.


However, there is a Scripture that suggests that the generation that sees Israel restored in it's homeland will not pass away until the coming of the Lord.


If we are those who see Israel back in it's homeland.....and the 3rd Seal as well......then I would say that pretty much confirms that we are very close.


In addition, the man of evil will be someone who comes back from the dead. Then you will know that you are in it for sure.
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 02:21 PM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
I have been studying the bible and end-times eschatology for 35 years. I have, at one time or another believed in a Pre-trib rapture as well as a mid-trib.

The idea of a post-trib Rapture is nonsense. There are Radio preachers such as Irvin Baxter and others, proposing post-trib Rapture, and most of these adherents, I have discovered, are Pentecostals.

Pentecostals think that Born-again Christians must go through a cleansing period during the tribulation and make their "Robes White" due to suffering and tribulation. Furthermore, some of them believe that a Christian can stop sinning completely in this lifetime on Earth... Rubbish

There are several compelling reasons to believe in a Pre-Trib rapture:

1) Doctrine of Immanency- "No one knows the day or hour. Mid and Post trib negates this doctrine. All you need is a calendar.

2) The Tribulation period (Daniel's 70th Week) is all about the Jews. The period of the Gentiles is over. God has been dealing with the Gentiles since 70 A.D. There will be many gentiles saved during the Tribulation period however, but they must go through the testing of the Mark and possibly Martyrdom.

3)The rapture/ marriage supper of the Lamb/and Saints returning with Christ at the battle of Armageddon is all based on the Jewish wedding customs of Jesus's day. Jewish Brides and bridesmaids would be prepared for the groom to arrive unannounced in the deep of the night. They were to be prepared to meet the groom if they wished to be part of the Wedding and 7-day feast that followed.

4) Christ ascended into heaven TWICE after his crucifixion and resurrection. The 1st time was after meeting Mary in the Garden Tomb area, where he said "Do not tough me for I have not yet ascended to my father" Jesus ascended SECRETLY and PRIVATELY to appear before the father and hi sacrifice be counted worthy. Jesus then appeared to the 500 witnesses and after 40 days, ascended PUBLICLY. The pre-truib Rapture is a PRIVATE return of Christ (in the clouds)

He will then return after the 7 day(year) wedding supper with those Saints that are awaiting his imminent return. (See parable of the 5 foolish and wise Virgins in Matthew). This is an Archetype of the Pre-trib rapture.

5) The coming of the Son of Man will be as in the days of Noah. Noah entered the Ark 7 DAYS (years) before the rains came. God sealed the door of the Ark.

I've got many more points I could bring up, but will end the post here thanks for reading.
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 02:56 PM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
The position that I feel is correct is:

Pre-Wrath


I do not use Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, or Post-Trib......because the "Tribulation Period" and "Great Tribulation Period" are man-made additions to Scripture.


All the you have that describes the final 7 years is:


Daniel's 70th week


You also know the the 5th, 6th, and 7th Seals of Revelation are included in the final seven years. Probably also the 3rd and 4th Seals are included as well.


The first two Seals of Revelation are somewhat general in nature and could have been opened up long ago.


An important issue to determine in Revelation is where exactly does God's wrath begin.


You have Satan's wrath (and those that follow him)......and you have God's wrath.


God's wrath cannot be duplicated by either Satan or man..
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 03:45 PM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
People hear on TV, in books, or in bible studies that there is a 7 year "Tribulation Period" and that all of it is God's wrath. They therefore assume that God will pull them out of there.


However, since a 7 year "Tribulation Period" is not actually found in Scripture........you need to consider this period as Daniel's 70th week.


And there is absolutely no evidence in Scripture that God's wrath must begin at the beginning of Daniel's 70th week. All that we read about is a possible peace covenant being made......and even that might not be too well publicized.


Therefore, you could enter into the 70th week without barely even knowing it.


Matthew 24 talks about a time of great tribulation like the world has never seen before. This begins at the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week when the abomination is set up in Jerusalem.

However.......this is a time of great tribulation (small letters).......not the "Great Tribulation Period."


It is not necessarily 3.5 years in duration......as God will cut it short....end it. There is no way of knowing exactly how long this period of tribulation will be.....perhaps a few years.


Then worldwide darkness for an unspecified period of time (6th Seal)


Then God's wrath......7th Seal.


The 144,000 of Israel will be sealed from harm just prior to God's wrath.....and the Gentile believers in Christ will be caught up by angels to be with the Lord.


It is difficult to break free from the Pre-Trib position becuase there is a strong emotional component involved.....and also a believer does not want to offend their Lord.

However Christ Himself instructed that when you see the abomination......leave everything behind.....and flee to the mountains. He would not have told people to do this.....just to have them starve in the wilderness. He will take care of you there. We also know that He will supernaturally protect a remnant of Israel there (Rev 12)


See also see the Psalms about the Lord having a hiding place
available for those placing their full faith and trust in Him. He will be there to fight the battle for you...just as he did for David. Many supernatural events will be taking place at the end.


Psalm 27: 5
Psalm 31:20
Psalm 34: 7
Psalm 91
notgonna

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12/31/2012 03:55 PM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
bump
Anonymous Coward
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01/02/2013 03:55 PM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
bump

People need to hear this
MHz

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01/02/2013 05:07 PM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
....All that we read about is a possible peace covenant being made......and even that might not be too well publicized.


It is difficult to break free from the Pre-Trib position becuase there is a strong emotional component involved.....and also a believer does not want to offend their Lord.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29862513

The 'he' in that verse from the 70 weeks is God, here isd a verse from the same passage that show that.

Da:9:4:
And I prayed unto the LORD my God,
and made my confession,
and said,
O Lord,
the great and dreadful God,
keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him,
and to them that keep his commandments;


You risk offending those that still believe in the pre-trib rapture.

Joh:12:42:
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him;
but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him,
lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
Joneddie

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07/12/2013 07:33 PM
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Re: I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video
[Hi GP. Spied this nugget on the net. Happy goosebumps!]

PRETRIB RAPTURE SCHOLARSHIP !

How can the “rapture” be “imminent”? Acts 2:34,35 reveal that Jesus stays at the Father's right hand in heaven until He leaves to destroy His foes at the second coming to earth. Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven with the Father "until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. ("The Rapture Question," by the long time No. 1 pretrib authority John Walvoord, didn't dare to even list, in its scripture index, the above verses! The same Acts verses were also too hot for John Darby - the so-called "father of dispensationalism" - to list in the scripture index in his "Letters"!)
Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! The "rest" for "all them that believe" is also tied to such destruction in II Thess. 1:6-10! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who'd be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the end of trib “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which Scofield views as Israel's posttrib resurrection!) It's amazing that the Olivet Discourse contains the "great commission" for the church but not even a hint of a pretrib rapture for the church!
Many are unaware that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 this "rapture" was stretched forward and turned into a separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which the mass of evangelical scholars rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” ["gathering"] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!). Google "Walvoord Melts Ice."
Other Google articles on the 183-year-old pretrib rapture view include "Pretrib Rapture Politics," “Famous Rapture Watchers,” "Pretrib Rapture Diehards," “X-Raying Margaret,” "Margaret Macdonald's Rapture Chart," "Pretrib Rapture's Missing Lines," "Edward Irving is Unnerving," “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” "Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal," "Pretrib Rapture Secrecy," “Deceiving and Being Deceived,” "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty," and "Morgan Edwards' Rapture View" – most by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (the most accurate and documented book on pretrib rapture history which is obtainable by calling 800.643.4645).
Joneddie

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