I used to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture until i watched this video

Remember how the Israelites made it through the tribulation(judgment) of Jehovah in Egypt? Well, they made it through because of the blood of the Lamb. There has always been a judgment where the people of God are protected and the dross of sin is weaned out. Both the believer and the non believer learns reverence. Some to obedience and others to cursing HIS name. Either way the outcome is due to belief and respect or unbelief and cursing. This is how Jehovah shows His compassion and His Holiness in Righteousness. He works best with the weak and small, therefore He is visible.

There's also the time of being in the desert. This is to get His children back on track. Either you are for Him or against Him. You have that right and freedom. But, beware if you choose to go after the powers that want to surpass the Heavenly Father. That person who thinks God is lesser than an angel or other powerful being will also fall with the 1/3 out cast.

All this is shown over and over in the Bible.

The fallen ones believe in God who made them but they reject His plans and ways. This test for man kind is fair for us too. Freedom to choose is a sign of love. Do you love God and His choices or are you for the traitors of Heaven.

Our testing is for the 2/3 that remained faithful to GOD and for the greatest celebration of victory in the end. Nothing that is worth anything comes from drunkeness, laziness, or without a price. We are all in this together, but we go through it with Jehovah and His redemption in Christ or we go through it with the fallen ones. Which one seems to better in the long run?



No one but Jehovah knows the date or the time but we were given seasons and clues to watch for and that is our service. Watch and lift up the burdened ones. share the truth. Every time we give of ourselves to help another, we come a little closer to becoming the character of God. This is our growth process. This is the people God wants for fellowship with Him.


Heb 2:11-3:19
11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
12 He says, "I will declare your name to my brothers; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises."
13 And again, "I will put my trust in him." And again he says, "Here am I, and the children God has given me."
14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death-- that is, the devil--
15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants.
17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

CHAPTER 3

1 Therefore, holy brothers, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.
2 He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God's house.
3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself.
4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything.
5 Moses was faithful as a servant in all God's house, testifying to what would be said in the future.
6 But Christ is faithful as a son over God's house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast.
7 So, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert,
9 where your fathers tested and tried me and for forty years saw what I did.
10 That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.'
11 So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'"
12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.
14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.
15 As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion."
16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt?
17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert?
18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?
19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
(NIV)

There is not other Godly leader from God to come. The False messiah is coming and will one day announce his leadership. Sacrifices were ended by Jehovah by the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus. The Temple was destroyed and so were the sacrifices. When they start up again in these "last days" it will be satanic. This is the stealth deceiving plan of Satan. Many who follow the Laws will be deceived because the laws are manipulative and smothering. The sum of the laws is Love Jehovah, others and yourself. All laws will help everyone but we are not to take on the behavior of all.
When this new sacrificial law comes upon the people as a mandate, you will see how it will lack love.

Watch and see how the religions will unify in peace and the slaves of laws and rituals and sacrifices will begin anew. These are signs of death, destruction and evil. Many will have their consciences lightened for thinking lots of work and sacrifice will help them remain in good standing. This will only be for Satan's kingdom. Jehovah's Kingdom follows the 2nd covenant He made which was prophetised and fulfilled in HIS created sacrific - The Body of Jesus Christ. Anyone negating Jehovah's words and His creation in Jesus are deceived and will lead back into slavery of rituals. It will happen again.


Our God loves all mankind and will be patient and non partial. The Sun and rain comes on all. It's our choice and we will be together in this "tribulation". May we show the truth in whatever befalls us and may evil depart from us as we press on to our higher calling in Christ Jesus. To say that we can not be tempted or led astray is false just as Peter found out. But, again God knows our weakness and has even built HIS church as the like of Peter. May we not feel the guilt as Peter did. This weakness is why Christ died. We are flesh. God is LOVE.

These distortions go back much further than Darby... study the history of the Theologies of Christianity and you will be amazed how old this doctrine really is.

Riddle me this. Who is the addresses of this passage?

(Rev 2:8 KJV) And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Notice the Prepositions used here, notice also the pronouns.

(Rev 2:9 KJV) I know thy [the angel] works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou [the angel] art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

(Rev 2:10 KJV) Fear none of those things which thou [the angel] shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you [in this church in Smyrna] into prison, that ye [those of this church in Smyra] may be tried; and ye [those of this church in Smyra] shall have tribulation ten days: be thou [the angel] faithful unto death, and I will give thee [the angel] a crown of life.

(Rev 2:11 KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

The only part of this that includes Us now, as being of the churches is this last verse, 11.

Hey, I didn't write the pronouns (the KJV Translators did when they translated the earlier Greek texts into English). I merely showed how to 'solve the riddle' of the pronouns using English Grammar.

Go figure.

Your mileage may vary.

that video could have been done in 15 minutes instead of 2 hours

As to:

(Rev 2:10 KJV) Fear none of those things which thou [the angel] shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you [in this church in Smyrna] into prison, that ye [those of this church in Smyra] may be tried; and ye [those of this church in Smyra] shall have tribulation ten days: be thou [the angel] faithful unto death, and I will give thee [the angel] a crown of life.

The Greek word found in the Textus Receptus here in KJV translated as 'days', is hemera.

Here is what Strong's puts forth in definitions of this Greek word:

G2250
hēmera
hay-mer'-ah
Feminine (with G5610 implied) of a derivative of ἧμαι hēmai (to sit; akin to the base of G1476) meaning tame, that is, gentle;

day, that is, (literally) the time space between dawn and dark, or the whole 24 hours (but several days were usually reckoned by the Jews as inclusive of the parts of both extremes);

figuratively a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context)

: - age, + alway, (mid-) day (by day, [-ly]), + for ever, judgment, (day) time, while, years.

The part I have put in italics is the words that KJV has used to translate this Greek word into. Ah, a Vector of Meaning.

So the above poster that had it as 'years' could be a correct translational interpretation, or it might not be.

Try on the meaning, 'time' to have 'ten times', and you get an even more different time-span than just 'days' or 'years'.

Tell me again, "The Bible says...."?

Syntax and Semantics, the Matrix of Meaning. Which is the Constructionalist's approach to deriving understanding from a text. And unless you are always walking by 'word of knowledge, word of wisdom, and discerning of spirits' and I mean ALWAYS.. then you have to at least start your studies with Syntax and Semantics... only after you have gotten as far as you can with Syntax and Semantics, then Ask God to open your eyes, and got back and study some more.

Of course some want to use at first the Originalist approach to deriving meaning from the text.

A wise-man will use both approaches. Afterall in dealing with the English versions you are starting with a couple other peoples translative interpretations to begin with based on older language texts.

II Peter 1:20-21 could logically leave on thinking that there is no way the Word of truth could ever be translated, as the action of translating a language starts with interpreting one language into another language.

Consider this next time you or someone else might want to be warped up in DOGMA.

When-ever that happens. Its really that clear.

thanks for the post

They bust and break down the pre-tribulation rapture with the word of god! It is long but take the time to watch the video.
[/quote
The people who are presenting the video are obviously not aware that the Lord comes IN THE AIR to meet his believers, His bride, at the rapture. They wrongly have determined that His appearance, when He physically sets His feet back on the earth is the rapture---they are mistaken. They need to go back and study the Scriptures. His feet do not touch the earth at the catching away of His Bride, the saints, the believers. He comes AGAIN at the END of the 7 year tribulation, sets His feet down on earth, and an earthquke happens when He does so, which changes the topography of Jerusalem! He will destroy His enemies with the breath of His coming, and at this point , He DOES NOT catch up his believers....he did that 7 years before. They are 7 years off on the catching away, or the rapture.

In 2Thessalonians 2, Paul corrected those in the early body of believers. They thought the rapture had already occured and they had missed it. "with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him (clearly describes the rapture, the catching away of believers).
He explained to them that the "day of the Lord" [which always means the Great Tribulation period (it lasts for 7 years)] and according to Daniel, it begins with the antichrist revealing himself by making a 7 year agreement (covenant) with the Israelis---he was telling them that the seven year tribulation period "will not come" verse 3, UNLESS the apostasy (the departure or rapture) comes FIRST, and "then the "man of lawlessness" (the antichrist, the one world leader, the beast) is revealed, the son of destruction" verse 4 (We know that this refers to Matthew 24:15, it is disclosed that at the middle of the seven-year tribulation, the abomination of desolation occurs which Daniel has described as being in the middle of the 7 year tribulation. So he is telling them that the man of sin will not be revealed unless the rapture comes first (the Holy Spirit indwelling all of us will be removed, for it restrains the full fledged evil of the "beast" or antichrist. After the rapture, he will no longer be restrained and will be revealed, (at which time he makes the seven year covenant, and then at the middle of that 7 year covenant period, the abomination (?obomanation??) of desolation occurs. He is telling them "WE WON'T BE HERE!" Christians will not be here when the antichrist is totally disclosed (by making that covenant at the beginning of the 7 year period, which is referred to as the Tribulation period). Everyone has tribulation on this earth and the millions of Christians who are being persecuted right now are being tribulated to death. But the DAY OF THE LORD, THE GREAT TRIBULATION PERIOD, refers to that last seven year period before Jesus returns to destroy the powers and set up His kingdom.


In verses 6 and 7 he explains to them that the Holy Spirit, which indwells us who "have received the love of the truth so as to be saved"(verse 10) restrains the evil of the antichrist until we are taken out of the way (the rapture) verse 7. verse 3 "and the man of sin will be revealed" (after we are taken out of the way. We already know because Daniel has told us, that the "man of sin" will make a covenant with Israel for 7 years, then there will be 3.5 years of relative peace (as compared with the final 3.5 years), and that final 3.5 years will be the worst, most nightmarish tribulation that has ever occured on earth. The early Christians were told "comfort one another with these words." Certainly there would not have been any comfort in hearing that they would be here for the Great Tribulaltion , that "hour of testing" which will come upon the world. God has promised to keep us from that "hour of testing"...the "great tribulation." And of course we have tribulations, troubles---everyone who has ever lived have had troubles and problems; no one is exempt---some are just more intense than others.

The Bible clearly tells us that at the rapture, Jesus 'MEETS US IN THE AIR'.... when He returns at the end, which these mistaken people in this video claim is the rapture, He physically lands on earth, which He does not at the rapture! This one preacher on the video claims that christians can't give him answers. He didn't ask the right Bible scholars, or he chose to ignore them---his arguments were very foolish.

Of many erroneous things they say, they point out that
saints are mentioned in Revelation during the Great Tribulation period....oh, duhhhh....yes, people do get saved during this Tribulation, after the rapture!

Millions of people will be saved during the 7 year tribulation, AFTER THE RAPTURE. There will be a rapture, then people will be saved and become believers during the tribulation. That's really not so hard to comprehend.

You want the truth about the rapture? Here it is!

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING. IT WILL CLEAR UP THINGS FOR YOU. I USED BIBLEGATEWAY.COM FOR SCRIPTURE. SOME OF IT IS REPEATED, BUT THE CORRELATION BETWEEN MATTHEW 24 AND REVELATION 6-7 SHOWS YOU THE FIRST ENDTIME APPEARANCE OF CHRIST.
Revelation 6 12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. HERE'S YOUR SIGN OF JONAH. THREE DAYS OF DARKNESS JUST LIKE WHEN THE SON OF MAN WENT INTO THE EARTH AND JONAH WAS IN BELLY OF THE WHALE. A FAITHLESS GENERATION WILL NOT HEED THE SIGNS UNTIL THIS HAPPENS.

15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g] wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
Revelation 7 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. WIND STOPS AFTER THE WORLDWIDE EARTHQUAKE. THIS IS A BIG DEAL. THE RAPTURE IS ABOUT TO TAKE PLACE. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

The Great Multitude in White Robes

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. GATHERED FROM THE EARTH IN THE SAME TIMEFRAME AS THE ANOINTING OF THE 144,000.They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out KEY WORDS HERE - CAME OUT OF of the great tribulation NOT AFTER IT; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,

“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne
will shelter them with his presence.
16 ‘Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,’[a]
nor any scorching heat.
17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will be their shepherd;
‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’
‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’[c]”

Revelation 11 The Seventh Trumpet

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:

“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign. JESUS IS BACK AND THE MILLENIAL REIGN STARTS. HELLO! THIS IS A DIFFERENT EVENT FROM THE RAPTURE!
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.

Now look at Matthew 24
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.LOOK AT WHAT REVELATION 6:15-17 SAYS, BASICALLY THE SAME THING.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

NOW COMPARE WHAT IS IN BOLD FOR THE CELESTIAL WOES IN REVELATION 6 AND THE EVENTS MENTIONED IN MATTHEW 24. THEY ARE CLEARLY THE SAME EVENTS. THERE IS A MULTITUDE BROUGHT BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD IN REVELATION 7 AND THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN IN MATTHEW 24 WITH THE GATHERING OF THE ELECT IS CONSISTENT. THIS IS YOUR RAPTURE EVENT. I might add Mark 13 confirms the same event of the coming of the son of man. These are the words of our Savior.

REVELATION 11, THE SEVENTH TRUMPET IS THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE TOTAL KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH WITH HIS SON'S MILLENIAL REIGN. THE TRANSFORMATION AT THIS EVENT IS A DIFFERENT EVENT.

Thanks OP! This cleared up a lot for me

BUMP!

Well said kind sir

The darkening of the sun for an unspecified period of time is the 6th Seal of Revelation.......parallel to the verse quoted above from Mt 24.


It is essential to understand when God's wrath actually begins. This is clearly stated by the unbelievers who are hiding in fear in caves......during the time of worldwide darkness (6th Seal). They know that God's wrath is about to begin. They proclaim:


"Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
(Rev. 6: 16-17)

This is about as clear a statement as you can get.





The Day of the Lord is much longer than a human 24 hour day. It is mentionned in 2 Peter 3: 10-13.....which takes place near the end of the Millenial Kingdom. The Day of the Lord therefore appears to be approx. 1,000 years in duration.

The 7th Seal of Revelation is God's wrath and lasts approx. one to two years......the final section of Daniel's 70th week. The 5th trumpet judgement by itself is five months in duration.


Just prior to the 7th Seal (God's wrath):


The 144,000 of Israel are sealed from harm. They will remain on earth.

Then a large multitude who no one could number from all the nations is seen in heaven. They can wear robes and have palm branches in their hands. They are not spirits.....but the Gentile Christians who have been caught up by the angels. The parallel Scripture for this is found in Mt 24: 29-31.


The above position is known as Pre-Wrath.

There is no dogma in what is above. The bible clearly shows that the rapture occurs between the sixth and seventh seal. I have given two instances in Matthew and Mark of what the Savior said, and what John recorded in Revelation. They are consistent. It is not a pretribulation event. The bible states the multitude is take out of the tribulation. Go back and read what is said in Revelation 6 and 7.

This is not about what someone feels we deserve or do not deserve in judgment. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That is the whole point of a Savior whose two primary objectives on earth were to end sacrifice and fulfill the law. Something none of us that are earthbound at present have the capability of doing except by being saved and going through the Son of Man template coming in a cloud of great glory from the east that we might be acceptable before the throne of his Father. We are spared the wrath of the 7th seal. Read the bible, and you will see the support of where we are spared this wrath. It is all about what scripture says. This is not a guessing game and conjecture is not necessary when we worship God in truth and spirit as his Son our Savior requests. The poster directly above this knows what I do.

Agreed


Satan is very clever at deception. He tempted Eve with half-truths.....and also tempted the Lord with half-truths in the wilderness.

These are things which might initially be appealing on the surface......but are not correct.

One of his methods of attack is therefore to introduce doctrines which sound nice......but are not completely true.


The only thing from Scripture that actually describes the final 7 years is Daniel's 70th week.

And there is no evidence that God's wrath must begin just prior to Daniel's 70th week. All we are told is that there will be a covenant made.....a type of peace covenant with Israel. This does not even have to be well publicized.


With additions to Scripture, satan can confuse many people.


"The Tribulation Period".....is a man-made addition to Scripture.

"The Great Tribulation Period".......another man-made addition.


By adopting and using these 2 concepts......many will be led to believe that all of "The Tribulation Period" is God's wrath.....and that He will pull you out prior to the beginning of Daniel's 70th week.

While Christ opens all 7 Seals of Revelation.......the first 5 Seals involve Satan's wrath.....which is just a continuation of what has been going on for a long time.

The 5th Seal is persecution of both Jews and Christians.....certainly not God's wrath.


The second problem with adopting "Tribulation period" is that you will consciously or unconsciously assign 3.5 years (or 7.0) years to certain key verses in Scripture......when you should not do so. This will lead to false conclusions.


The word tribulation should just be translated as a time of great difficulty.......with no assignments of time given.


By freeing yourself of this error......it then, for example, becomes easy to see how God can shorten the days....end the persecution......because it is not a fixed 3.5 years period.


"For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened." (Mt 24: 21-22)


God will end the persecution..........then the whole world will go dark for an unspecified period of time.....perhaps months (6th Seal). The elites will hide in fear in caves and declare that God's wrath is about to begin.

I will say two things. At the inception of sin as stated in scripture seven years time and the sense of a beast passed over man. This is the seven years of the apocalypse. This is the end of the cursed time and flesh will pass through it and the sense of the beast will descend upon him and consume him unless he finds his name in the Book of Life through our Savior Jesus Christ. For those who listen to the lies the immersion in the sense of a beast will culminate with eternal damnation of receiving the mark.

The days of darkness at the coming of the Son of Man are consistent with what our Savior said about a faithless generation that required a sign. He gave many while he was here. In this generation, many see but do not believe the signs of the times. When three days of darkness permeate this earth, then the faithless generation will FINALLY believe as he foretold with sign of Jonah to parallel he three days of darkness in a belly of a whale.

I was thinking about this guys...
there will be 1,000 years where basically God presses the pause button and God's people rest for 1,000 years. after the thousand years the unsaved people are resurrected and the conflict begins and concludes after some time.

now why does God set apart 1,000 years...

if you think about it, God says that work is done for 6 days and on the 7th day their is rest. if one day is a thousand years to God like it says in the bible then that means 6,000 years He allows the work of sin on earth and conflict and on the 7th day He and His people rest, which is the 1,000 years. then the work begins again and it is shortly after concluded.

it is impossible when the count begins, but if u extrapolate, we are pretty close to the end of the sixth day (6,000 years).

Many miracles will be taking place during this time. Even the false prophet will be able to bring fire down from heaven.


A person needs to have the faith of David.....and allow God to fight the battle for you......even though you might never have seen this before.


The key is faith........which is the opposite of fear and anxiety.


The flesh causes all of us to stumble at times in this regard.



For example, let's say chaos and disorder is taking place all around you. Perhaps there are also troops in the area.

The natural repsonse would to freeze up from fear.....or perhaps to get ready to do battle on your own.


But would you consider this?.......to go and sit on your back porch......and wait on the Lord......having the faith that He can easily deliver you out of there.....perhaps sending angels to walk you right out of there.....invisible to all. Would you consider that an option?


What did God do when Israel had it's back against the Red Sea.....with armies approaching ????


God has prepared hiding places for those having a mustand seed of faith.....that He can deliver them.


Psalm 27: 5

Psalm 31: 20

Psalm 34: 7

Psalm 91

Another misconception held by some is that the 7 Seals of Revlation must be squished into the final seven year period (Daniel's 70th week)


The 70 weeks prophecy was given to Daniel in an answer to prayer. He was interceding for his people Israel being held in captivity. He asked God for forgiveness as well as how long the punishment would last.....how long God would hide His face from them.

Israel continues in a state of punishment from God until the 70 weeks of years are complete. At the end of the 70 weeks.....God will put His Spirit inside all of Israel. See Ezek Chps 34----39.


Revelations on the other hand was given by Christ to the Church.....as a glimpse into the future.....end time events.


The first two Seals are very general in nature......and could have been broken several hundred years ago.....it is difficult to say.


As far as I know however the 3rd Seal has never taken place before......a day's wages for a loaf of bread on a worldwide basis.


Israel is back in it's homeland.....a major prophecy fulfilled in our midst.....which few people over hundreds of years ever thought possible.


Israel is home. If you see the 3rd Seal as well.....you will know the time is very near.

Welcome Brother.I was there at one time also and God saw fit to show me the truth as you. Go to [link to www.christianmedianetwork.com] Plenty of study there.

Sorry this doesn't make any sense. Study the ENTIRE Bible and you will see the truth my friend

The elect are still believers in Christ, not only the Jews. Just because you've been around the pastors in some video means nothing. Study the entire Bible, and you will have a much more balanced view of all these things...salvation is not exclusive to the Jews, actually the Jewish people are deceived, still awaiting the Messiah. Jesus IS the Messiah

"God has not appointed us to wrath"......namely His wrath.


It is therefore very important to distiguish between satan's wrath and God's wrath.

God's wrath is very distinct.....and cannot be duplicated by either satan or man.


In Revelations Chp 12.....satan will be kicked out of heaven......full of wrath (verse 12)


He has been a liar and a murderer from the beginning......and this will continue into Daniel's 70th week.


3rd Seal.......a day's wages for a loaf of bread.

4th Seal......seems to indicate approx. 25% of the world's population will perish from various causes.

5th Seal......persecution of first the Jews by the man of evil, false prophet, and those that follow them. God will supernaturally protect a remnant in the wilderness. They will then go after the "offspring".....the Gentile believers in Christ grafted into the natural branch. See Rev. Chp 12.


After approx. one to two years of persecution.....God will cut this short.....end it.

6th Seal.....worldwide darkness for an unspecified period of time....could be months. The elites will hide in fear in caves and proclaim that God's wrath is about to begin.

The 144,000 of Israel are sealed from harm. They will remain on earth.

The Gentile believers in Christ will be caught up by angels.


7th Seal......God's wrath......the trumpet and bowl judgements......comprising the final one to two years of Daniel's 70th week.


The 144,000 of Israel were not sealed from harm prior to the 1st Seal.......but just prior to the 7th Seal.

And another subject that is NEVER covered with such detail, is the subject matter of the NEPHILIM.

That is the missing link, and they will be part of the global deception to come.

The book of Jude is only about their parents, fallen angels, their children were the big brothers to the runts that had 24 fingers and toes after the flood. Revelation has Satan, a fallen angel of the highest magnitude, his favorite fallen angel, perhaps the one he mated with and their child is the False Prophet, otherwise known as the 4 released angels of the 6th trump. Not quite fallen angel strength but 200M horses is a lot of 'pulling power' none the less. The whole earth gives up their armies in, well you can't stretch one hour to be longer than 60 minutes so you don't get what you pay for, however, you do get to taste what it is like to be on the receiving end of what you paid for.

Jude covers what Enoch wrote about fallen angels into a summary. When the Bible was being put together Enoch was in the running to be the last book but because it was so large and the bulk was in vision form it was dropped in favor of one that was an extension of Daniel and the prophecies the 12 books that follow his in the OT. That is the best explanation I have found. I'm waiting for the vid to come out in the new nations game that is when the Indians get the Americas back and a whole bunch of 'renters' and guides to a larger world that they are being pushed from. Or get a membership for the smokehouses and you won't need a vid. (based on Encoch's 10,000 trips, any body ever do a word count to that specific number, if meshed with the bible that could be a multiplier to the 6 days of creation, the place God is when you are in the 3rd heaven, future home of the angels that did not sin. A day in the 1st heaven is 24 hours, a day in the universe is 1,000 years and a day there is 10,000 years and to be where God was when the universe was created. A purified angel in that place is as wise as we will be when we are 10,000 years old in out glorified body in the new earth. If we visit that place when we come back 10,000 years will have passed, or might depending if playing with the numbers is supposed to be done, just strange how many times I read that stupid number. Christ coming is only 1 chapter long, another reason Revelation was correctly chosen as the final book that is needed to understand God in 'the time of the Gentiles' and beyond.

Fellow believers.......do not despair if you are giving up your "Pre-Trib" beliefs.


God is right there......to fight the battle for you.


But you must first have the faith that He can do this.....and completely turn things over to Him.


This is the type of faith which David had. All the warriors of Israel were fearful.....and not willing to go out and fight Goliath. Yet David.....a teenage shepherd......had faith......and let God fight the battle for Him.

1 Samuel Chp 17


See also:


Psalm 27:5
Psalm 31:20
Psalm 34: 7
Psalm 91


Even in the midst of chaos and tribulation.......He can hide you......fight for you......and deliver you.

....Xcellent thread...but shall we get right on down to the nitty gritty....? When is Jesus coming back...anyway...? The standard all around response from pre-tribbers & Sunday go to meeting christians....WELL...."NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR"...fine...WHAT ABOUT THE WEEK ,THE MONTH, & THE YEAR...? Does scripture give us any indication....? It most certainly does ! Right here...DANIEL 12:11,12 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation set up,there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days". (NOTE) significant we see an additional 30 day's here as opposed to the 1260 day's/42 months ...as versed in Rev.11,12,13 etc. V.12 "Blessed is he that waiteth,and cometh to the thousand three hundred five and thirty days"...(NOTE) now we see an additional 45 days from the 1290 mark and 75 days from the original 1260 mark...WHAT IS BROTHER DANIEL TRYING TO TELL US HERE...? HOW about start counting....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!