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Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)

 
Anonymous Coward
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 03:39 PM
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Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Judaism teaches that the messiah will fulfill the following prophecies **in a single lifetime**, and Jesus did none of these:

* The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
* Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
* The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
* He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)
* The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
* Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
* Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
* He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
* All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
* Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
* There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
* All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
* The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
* He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
* Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
* The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
* The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
* Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
* The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
* He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)
* Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
* He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
* He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

Jesus did not fulfill any of these


Before you say he is going to do it when he returns: THERE IS NO "SECOND COMING" CONCEPT IN THE JEWISH BIBLE: Missionaries respond with their "second coming" theory, which asserts that Jesus will accomplish everything when he comes "next time." There are two major problems with this Christian answer.

First, the second coming theory has no scriptural basis in the Jewish Bible. In fact, scripture states that when a person dies, "on that day his plans all perish." Therefore, according to scripture, when Jesus died, his plans ended.
Second, the second coming theory can apply to any person who has ever lived and therefore is totally meaningless. For example, one can claim that their Gentile grandmother was the messiah. When challenged that she didn't accomplish anything, one can say that when she "comes back" she will be born a Jewish man with the correct genealogy and will accomplish everything!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/27/2012 03:40 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
For centuries before Jesus' time, there have been 23 prophecies that were said to pertain to the Davidic Messiah. Mark listed them. No others were ever recognized by Jews before, Christianity back-engineered most of the so-called 300.

As far as the Nazareth thing, it all comes down to a quote in Matthew 2:23
And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

The problem is that there was never any prophecy stating anything about Nazareth or a Nazarene. You can search in any version of any Old Testament and you cannot find those words - relating to the Moschiach or otherwise.

I have seen it referenced back to Isaiah 11:1
1 And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a twig shall grow forth out of his roots.

but I have never understood how they got a Nazarene out of that.

The other interesting thing is that Nazareth didn't exist in any references, anywhere except the Bible, until about the 4th century CE.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 03:43 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
the Christian Bible is not the Jewish Tanach. A lot of the predictions were a combo of mistranslations, but changes to wording to support their theology. So, a lot of the convincing arguments go away, when you go back to the original Torah & prophets & writings (our Tanakh). (Such as Issiah 53.)
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 03:45 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
it cannot be in the HANDS of one man.

his message must resonate in all our hearts
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 03:46 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
it cannot be in the HANDS of one man.

his message must resonate in all our hearts
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12814585


Reasons Jesus wasn’t the Jewish Messiah
divine birth/divinity - (the Jewish Messiah will be human – G-d cannot become human – Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 44:6, Hosea 11:9, Ezekiel 28:2, Numbers 23:19) - strike

performing miracles - (JM won't perform miracles) - strike

taking on the sins of others - (no one can take on the sins of others – Deuteronomy 24:16, Exodus 32:30-35, Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27) - strike

breaking Sabbath - strike (JM will be observant) - strike

sacrificed/rising from the dead - (G-d rejects human sacrifice and blood sacrifice is NOT an absolute requirement – Deuteronomy 12:30-31, Jeremiah 19:4-6, Psalm 106:37-38, Ezekiel 16:20, Leviticus 5:11-13, Jonah 3:10, Leviticus 17, Leviticus 5:11-13, Numbers 16:47, Numbers 31:50, Isaiah 6:6-7, Jeremiah 7:22-23, Psalm 51:16-17) - strike

prophecies unfilled - (JM will accomplish them in one life time) - strike
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 03:47 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
brother man.

are you suggesting a moshiach will step into the light for us to see?


i dont believe this will happen.

its up to us to save ourselves.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 03:52 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Christians say that he'll do the unfinished ones when he comes back, but the Hebrew scripture makes no mention of a second coming of the Messiah.

The so-called prophecies that Jesus was supposed to have fulfilled are all either mistranslations, taken out of context, or trivial.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 03:53 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
brother man.

are you suggesting a moshiach will step into the light for us to see?


i dont believe this will happen.

its up to us to save ourselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12814585


Patience is a virtue and I will continue to wait
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 03:54 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
"All the dead shall rise again " ....That's a tall order but kind of cool, Moshiach Zombies. My grandparents were filled with formaldehyde when they were planted, how will the Moshiach deal with that?
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 03:55 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
brother man.

are you suggesting a moshiach will step into the light for us to see?


i dont believe this will happen.

its up to us to save ourselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12814585


Patience is a virtue and I will continue to wait
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30738753


Is it expected he is to 'arrive' within our generation? Or, is it still, he will come when he comes?

I guess I am asking if there are any prophecies or recent 'findings' that make some think he will be arriving within this generation.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 03:55 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
"All the dead shall rise again " ....That's a tall order but kind of cool, Moshiach Zombies. My grandparents were filled with formaldehyde when they were planted, how will the Moshiach deal with that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29192099


the prophecy must be fulfilled
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 03:57 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
"All the dead shall rise again " ....That's a tall order but kind of cool, Moshiach Zombies. My grandparents were filled with formaldehyde when they were planted, how will the Moshiach deal with that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29192099


It is said that when the spirit manifests into a material body, the spirit is dead. They say that because the veil drops.

"All the dead shall rise", may mean that our spirits will 'live' again while we are embodied in flesh. In other words, the veil is gone.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 03:58 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
brother man.

are you suggesting a moshiach will step into the light for us to see?


i dont believe this will happen.

its up to us to save ourselves.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12814585


Patience is a virtue and I will continue to wait
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30738753


Is it expected he is to 'arrive' within our generation? Or, is it still, he will come when he comes?

I guess I am asking if there are any prophecies or recent 'findings' that make some think he will be arriving within this generation.
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Any signs? Universal peace on earth
Messianic Era (Chabad Lubavitch)

In the Messianic Era, the Divine plan for the world will be fully realized. There will be universal peace, prosperity, goodness and knowledge of God. The coming Moshiach will not cause a break with the past and the beginning of something entirely new. On the contrary, it is the culmination and crowning stroke of all our efforts toward a world of peace and consummate holiness.
Moshiach will free the Jewish People from all servitude to foreign nations, rebuild the Holy Temple in Jerusalem and gather all the Jews of the entire world to Israel. Peace and prosperity will be universal and all the nations of the world will serve the one God. Moshiach will reveal Godliness in every facet of the Creation. He will elevate each of us from our respective limitations and open our eyes to the Godliness that is the inner reality of our life.
We will still have our family, friends and possessions. However, they will be more wholesome and meaningful because we will see their true value-their Divine purpose.

Description: He will be our leader when we achieve peace on earth. You won't miss him. (He won't be a god.)

When will he come?
From "The Book of Words," by Lawrence Kushner
Tradition wisely warns against "forcing the hand of the Messiah." On the other hand, imagining how much better things could be than they are now only guarantees despair.
Sometimes "the best" is the enemy of "the good." If you allow yourself to measure existence against a perfect standard, life will certainly be miserable. Things, by definition, could always be better than they are now. On the other hand, succumbing to the way things are now is to cease dreaming. The balance, perhaps, is to accept the way things are because, like it or not, for better or for worse, that is literally the only way things are. They, of course, can be different, but only later. To worry about "later" is to miss "now." Remember, one of us may be the Messiah. That possibility shouldn't, but nevertheless does, affect how we treat one another.
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 04:02 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
mechaye ha metim

in hebrew - resurrect of the dead
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 04:02 PM
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bump
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/27/2012 04:07 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Jews believe that one person cannot die for the sins of another.

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin. [Deuteronomy 24:16]
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 04:08 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
How is it said that the people will 'know' him? Or, how will he come onto the world scene?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 04:14 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Although some scholars believed that G-d has set aside a specific date for the coming of the mashiach, most authority suggests that the conduct of mankind will determine the time of the mashiach's coming. In general, it is believed that the mashiach will come in a time when he is most needed (because the world is so sinful), or in a time when he is most deserved (because the world is so good). For example, each of the following has been suggested as the time when the mashiach will come:

if Israel repented a single day;
if Israel observed a single Shabbat properly;
if Israel observed two Shabbats in a row properly;
in a generation that is totally innocent or totally guilty;
in a generation that loses hope;
in a generation where children are totally disrespectful towards their parents and elders;
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/27/2012 04:16 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
bump
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 04:20 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
in a generation that loses hope;
in a generation where children are totally disrespectful towards their parents and elders;
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30738753


hiding
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 04:21 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Defining the "Coming of the Moshiach"

HANDELMAN: The Lubavitch movement has recently created quite a stir with its renewed emphasis on the coming of Moshiach. What does it really mean to say that "Moshiach will come"?

FRIEDMAN: The ultimate authority on that is Maimonides. Maimonides says that there will be a Jewish leader who will be a descendant of King David who will bring Jews back to Judaism, and who will fight G-d's battle. If he does so, we can assume that he sofer.jpg (27007 bytes)is Moshiach. If he then goes on to build the Temple and gather all Jews back to Israel, then we will know for sure that he is Moshiach.

Now this means that Moshiach comes not by introducing himself as Moshiach. Moshiach is a Jewish leader who does his work diligently and accomplishes these things. So Moshiach comes through his accomplishments and not through his pedigree.

HANDELMAN: In other words, does the coming of Moshiach mean that we make this "assumption" about a certain person, but the person doesn't himself declare it - and then one day this person finally says, "It's me"? Or does the candidate actually have to go and build the Temple in Jerusalem?

FRIEDMAN: Maimonides says that once he builds the Temple and gathers Jews back to Israel, then we know for sure he is Moshiach. He doesn't have to say anything. He will accept the role, but we will give it to him. He won't take it to himself. And his coming, the moment of his coming, in the literal sense, would mean the moment when the whole world recognizes him as Moshiach.

HANDELMAN: What specifically does that mean?

FRIEDMAN: That both Jew and non-Jew recognize that he is the responsible for all these wonderful improvements in the world.
[link to www.kesser.org]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/27/2012 04:25 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Jews believe God hates human sacrifices

In Deuteronomy, Gd calls human sacrifice something that Gd hates; an abomination to Gd.


Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the Etrnl thy Gd: for every abomination to the Etrnl, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. [Deuteronomy 12:30-31]



In Jeremiah, Gd tells us that Human sacrifice is so horrible a concept, that it did not even come into Gd's mind.



Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents; They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spoke it, neither came it into my mind: Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but The Valley of Slaughter. [Jeremiah 19:4-6]


Similarly, in Psalm 106 and in Ezekiel 16:




Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood. [Psalm 106:37-38]

Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter? [Ezekiel 16:20]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/27/2012 04:26 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Defining the "Coming of the Moshiach"

HANDELMAN: The Lubavitch movement has recently created quite a stir with its renewed emphasis on the coming of Moshiach. What does it really mean to say that "Moshiach will come"?

FRIEDMAN: The ultimate authority on that is Maimonides. Maimonides says that there will be a Jewish leader who will be a descendant of King David who will bring Jews back to Judaism, and who will fight G-d's battle. If he does so, we can assume that he sofer.jpg (27007 bytes)is Moshiach. If he then goes on to build the Temple and gather all Jews back to Israel, then we will know for sure that he is Moshiach.

Now this means that Moshiach comes not by introducing himself as Moshiach. Moshiach is a Jewish leader who does his work diligently and accomplishes these things. So Moshiach comes through his accomplishments and not through his pedigree.

HANDELMAN: In other words, does the coming of Moshiach mean that we make this "assumption" about a certain person, but the person doesn't himself declare it - and then one day this person finally says, "It's me"? Or does the candidate actually have to go and build the Temple in Jerusalem?

FRIEDMAN: Maimonides says that once he builds the Temple and gathers Jews back to Israel, then we know for sure he is Moshiach. He doesn't have to say anything. He will accept the role, but we will give it to him. He won't take it to himself. And his coming, the moment of his coming, in the literal sense, would mean the moment when the whole world recognizes him as Moshiach.

HANDELMAN: What specifically does that mean?

FRIEDMAN: That both Jew and non-Jew recognize that he is the responsible for all these wonderful improvements in the world.
[link to www.kesser.org]
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Are you a Jew?
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 04:28 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Defining the "Coming of the Moshiach"

HANDELMAN: The Lubavitch movement has recently created quite a stir with its renewed emphasis on the coming of Moshiach. What does it really mean to say that "Moshiach will come"?

FRIEDMAN: The ultimate authority on that is Maimonides. Maimonides says that there will be a Jewish leader who will be a descendant of King David who will bring Jews back to Judaism, and who will fight G-d's battle. If he does so, we can assume that he sofer.jpg (27007 bytes)is Moshiach. If he then goes on to build the Temple and gather all Jews back to Israel, then we will know for sure that he is Moshiach.

Now this means that Moshiach comes not by introducing himself as Moshiach. Moshiach is a Jewish leader who does his work diligently and accomplishes these things. So Moshiach comes through his accomplishments and not through his pedigree.

HANDELMAN: In other words, does the coming of Moshiach mean that we make this "assumption" about a certain person, but the person doesn't himself declare it - and then one day this person finally says, "It's me"? Or does the candidate actually have to go and build the Temple in Jerusalem?

FRIEDMAN: Maimonides says that once he builds the Temple and gathers Jews back to Israel, then we know for sure he is Moshiach. He doesn't have to say anything. He will accept the role, but we will give it to him. He won't take it to himself. And his coming, the moment of his coming, in the literal sense, would mean the moment when the whole world recognizes him as Moshiach.

HANDELMAN: What specifically does that mean?

FRIEDMAN: That both Jew and non-Jew recognize that he is the responsible for all these wonderful improvements in the world.
[link to www.kesser.org]
 Quoting: Septenary Man


Are you a Jew?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30738753


Nope. I am nothing. I have never been religious or part of any religion. I am very 'spiritual' and take things from every 'religion' or philosophy that I agree with. I am a mixed bag. chuckle
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 04:36 PM
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bump
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/27/2012 04:50 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 04:53 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
You might find this a interesting read.

[link to catholictradition.org]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Bahamas
12/27/2012 04:56 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
You might find this a interesting read.

[link to catholictradition.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18298744


The catholic is responsible for the perversion of Jewish scripture and Jesus is not the Moshiach.
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 05:01 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
.

PROPHECY: A Heavy Stone, A Bitter Burden - "O Jerusalem, why have you forsaken Me?!" Says The Lord





video link:
[link to www.youtube.com]

.
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 05:06 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
You might find this a interesting read.

[link to catholictradition.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18298744


The catholic is responsible for the perversion of Jewish scripture and Jesus is not the Moshiach.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30738753


Peace be with you.
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 05:09 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
What do you fake jews care?

Your own rabbis confess to worshipping Lucifer.

Keep your lies to yourself son of Cain.

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