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Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 30780247
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12/27/2012 06:50 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Judaism teaches that the messiah will fulfill the following prophecies **in a single lifetime**, and Jesus did none of these:

* The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
* Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
* The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
* He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)
* The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
* Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
* Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
* He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
* All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
* Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
* There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
* All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
* The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
* He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
* Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
* The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
* The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
* Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
* The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
* He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)
* Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
* He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
* He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)

Jesus did not fulfill any of these


Before you say he is going to do it when he returns: THERE IS NO "SECOND COMING" CONCEPT IN THE JEWISH BIBLE: Missionaries respond with their "second coming" theory, which asserts that Jesus will accomplish everything when he comes "next time." There are two major problems with this Christian answer.

First, the second coming theory has no scriptural basis in the Jewish Bible. In fact, scripture states that when a person dies, "on that day his plans all perish." Therefore, according to scripture, when Jesus died, his plans ended.
Second, the second coming theory can apply to any person who has ever lived and therefore is totally meaningless. For example, one can claim that their Gentile grandmother was the messiah. When challenged that she didn't accomplish anything, one can say that when she "comes back" she will be born a Jewish man with the correct genealogy and will accomplish everything!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30738753


i picked one of your verses at random

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

how does this apply to a messiah, in what context, and when was or is it to be fulfilled?
 Quoting: Neoanderthal Man

 Quoting: Neoanderthal Man


How beautiful on the mountains
are the feet of those who bring good news,
who proclaim peace,
who bring good tidings,
who proclaim salvation,
who say to Zion,
“Your God reigns!”


This verse has no relation to the coming Moshiach ,from my understanding it looks more like a poetic literary verse than a prophetic verse. I will double check my lexicon

Feel free to ask more questions
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30978096


it's one of the verses in your op that you used to make your claim.

but it's nice to see you think for yourself.
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 06:55 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn. Zech 12:10
Morganite

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12/27/2012 06:57 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn. Zech 12:10
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 18298744


Y E S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bump JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!
morganite
Dr. Greenthumb

User ID: 30975124
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12/27/2012 06:59 PM

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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
The messiah is a mushroom and a pot leaf rolled into one.

And if you don't understand that that is because you are unlearned in the ways of the manna and green medicine.

Last Edited by there is noledge on 12/27/2012 06:59 PM
Anonymous Coward
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12/27/2012 07:02 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Yet you Christians base your Old testament on the Jewish torah
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30978096


Was Moses Jewish?? WTF
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31006443
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12/28/2012 03:57 AM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
You deny even what is in the beginning
Adam - Man
Seth - Appointed
Enosh – Mortal
Kenan – Sorrow
Mahalalel – The blessed God
Jared – Shall come down
Enoch – Teaching
Methuselah – His death shall bring
Lamech – Despairing
Noah – Comfort and rest

Jesus said it - he laid down his own life.
"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." John 10:18

Equating that to parents who sacrifice their own child to the fire and star gods is blasphemous.

"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 4028898


how have we Jews, who invented the term, always defined the term 'messiah?' Our definition is based on Scripture:


1. The Messiah is born of two human parents, as we said. But Jesus, according to Christian theology, was born of the union between a human woman and Gd (as were many other pagan deities, see above) rather than two human parents.

2. The Messiah can trace his lineage through his human biological father, back to King David (Isaiah 11:1,10; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 34:23-24; 37:21-28; Jeremiah 30:7-10; 33:14-16; Hosea 3:4-5). According to Christian theology, Jesus's father was Gd. Therefore, Jesus' lineage does not go through his human 'father' -- Joseph, the husband of Mary.


3. The Messiah traces his lineage only through King Solomon (II Samuel 7:12-17; I Chronicles 22:9-10). But according to Luke 3:31, Jesus was not a descendant of Solomon, but of Solomon's half-brother Nathan. Therefore Jesus was not a descendant of King David through King Solomon, and fails this test as well.


4. The Messiah may not be a descendant of Jehoiakim, Jeconiah, or Shealtiel, because this royal line was cursed. (I Chronicles 3:15-17; Jeremiah 22:18,30). But according to Matthew 1:11-12 and Luke 3:27, Jesus was a descendant of Shealtiel.

5. The Messiah is preceded by Elijah the prophet who, together with the Messiah, unifies the family (Malachi 4:5-

6). This is contradicted by Jesus himself (Matthew 10:34-3
3

7).

According to the traditional Jewish definition of the term, the Messiah will make changes in the real world, changes that one can see and perceive and be able to prove, precisely because they take place in the real world. It is for this task that the Messiah has been anointed in the first place, hence the term, messiah -- one who is anointed. These perceptible changes include: 6. The Messiah reestablishes the Davidic dynasty through his own children (Daniel 7:13-14).
But Jesus had no children.


7. The Messiah brings an eternal peace between all nations, all peoples, and all people (Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-4; Ezekiel 39:9). Obviously there is no peace. Furthermore, Jesus said that his purpose in coming was to bring a sword, and not peace (see Matthew 10:34, as referenced above).


8. The Messiah brings about the world-wide conversion of all peoples to Ethical Monotheism (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Zechariah 8:23; Isaiah 11:9; Zechariah 14:9,16).
But the world remains steeped in idolatry.


9. The Messiah brings about an end to all forms of idolatry (Zechariah 13:2).
But the world remains steeped in idolatry.


10. The Messiah brings about a universal recognition that the Jewish idea of Gd is Gd (Isaiah 11:9).
But the world remains steeped in idolatry.


11. The Messiah leads the world to become vegetarian (Isaiah 11:6-9).

12. The Messiah gathers to Israel all of the twelve tribes (Ezekiel 36:24).

13. The Messiah rebuilds the Temple (Isaiah 2:2; Ezekiel 37:26-28).

14. After the Messiah comes, there will be no more famine (Ezekiel 36:29-30).

15. After the Messiah comes, death will eventually cease (Isaiah 25:8).

16. Eventually the dead will be resurrected (Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Ezekiel 37:12-13; Isaiah 43:5-6).

17. The nations of the earth will help the Jews materially (Isaiah 60:5-6; 60:10-12).

18. The Jews will be sought out for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23).

19. All weapons will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9,12).

20. The Nile will run dry (Isaiah 11:15).

21. Monthly, the trees of Israel will yield their fruit (Ezekiel 47:12).

22. Each tribe of Israel will receive and settle their inherited land (Ezekiel 47:13-13).

23. The nations of the earth will recognize that they have been in error, that the Jews had it right all along, and that the sins of the Gentile nations - their persecutions and the murders they committed - have been borne by the Jewish people (Isaiah 53).



These biblically-based changes in the world are very real, perceptible, noticeable, and knowable. The changes that Christianity claims were made by Jesus are not perceptible at all. They must be accepted on faith, and faith alone. How can one establish that Jesus died for one's sins, except by faith? The changes made by the Messiah according to Judaism would be provable, but the changes made by the messiah according to Christianity can only be taken on faith.

Even Christians recognize that the changes the real Messiah will make, according to the Bible and Judaism, have not yet happened. This is why Christianity had to invent the idea of a Second Coming.

The real Messiah has no need to come a second time to do those things -- he must do them the first time around in order to actually be the Messiah.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30978096


You answered your own questions when you wrote "how have we Jews, who invented..."

Just as then, you choose the traditions of the elders over the Word. You love the religion created by these men more than the Word. You strive to obtain and make your own righteousness through works - building your OWN tower to Heaven - rather than submitting to the One who can make you righteous. You still want to lead and rule the world instead of Him leading and ruling over you - you still want those best seats at the banquet and seats at the head of the tables. And you still won't understand that you are to serve instead of rule. You still deny that Jesus DID come for the lost sheep of the House of Israel and that not all Israel is of Israel. You still cannot fathom that he reconciled both houses of Israel, putting both on equal footing before Father. You still cannot admit in your heart that he was the lamb that Our Father provided despite Abraham seeing it and being glad and despite the millions upon millions of those who have accepted that faith in Father to save them, understanding that Yahushua means it is "God saves".
Jews today still fight to build their OWN tower to Heaven and thus expect a golden age as leaders just as the occult does. You still cannot fathom that God had something else in mind, all along, that your forefathers refused to admit and thus crush their fleshy desires of ruling the world. The teachers and leaders then were drunk on their own earthly pursuits and power over the people just as they are today. Therefore you still cannot humble yourselves even to the Father in repentance and thus remain blinded to the glorious good news. And thus you cannot fathom that he made the house of Judah DESOLATE.

All the nations were to be blessed through Abraham's seed - the Christ. And they were but you cannot see or understand this because, like your forefathers who rejected him, you are still breathlessly looking forward to an earthly kingdom ruled by YOURSELVES INSTEAD OF OUR CREATOR. You don't WANT HIS REIGN but millions upon millions of your fellow Israelites and their mixed families HAVE ACCEPTED IT and RELISHED it. And been blessed a hundred fold.
TTGS
User ID: 1652008
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01/16/2013 07:22 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Actually if you understood the Milk of the Word, and the Feasts of YHVH, in light of Daniels prophecy, then you would understand the concept of the Second Coming.

Most have their mind made up and won't investigate any further, but for those who are humble enough look deep for TRUTH, please watch the following video to understand the Milk of the Word.

[youtube] [link to youtu.be]

Shalom
Anonymous Coward
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01/16/2013 07:22 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)


Do you consider your life of any value? If you do I suggest you watch this video completely.
TTGS
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01/16/2013 07:24 PM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
.....and the appointed time (Feast)of the weekly Sabbath is when his resurrection happened, not on the pagan day of the sun.

[youtube] [link to youtu.be]
Anonymous Coward
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10/15/2013 01:00 AM
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Re: Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah)
Why does Moshiach "tarry" or procrastinate? In the Tenach, ha sefer Shir haShirim 2:9 [Song of Songs] we are given insight into the early relationship between Moshiach and his bride Israel.Lack of knowledge from the chosen people prevents Moshiach from making his appearance.Why is Moshiach concealed and hidden among the gentiles? Could it have been the Holocaust or some other tragic event that lead to the concealment of the son of David?

It's any ones guess what might have triggered the separation but one thing is for certain, in the latter days just prior to the revelation of Moshiach the son of David is a resident of Edom.At last Moshiach makes his appearance! The one who was previously standing behind the lattice is now spiritually strong enough to knock at her door. Why does Moshiach knock? Only a stranger knocks before entering. The owner of the house will not quickly open to a stranger. Moshiach will have severed all religious allegiance with Edom/Christianity (see Modern day Edom) but his love for the people in the Christian community will never be extinguished

birthpangsofmoshiach.blogspot.com


In the principles of faith it says. " I believe with complete faith in the coming of the Mashiach, Though he tarry, nonetheless I await him every day that he will come"

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