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| 07:35 PM | ||
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Jesus is no Moshiach (Messiah) | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 30738753  Bahamas12/27/2012 03:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 30738753 Bahamas12/27/2012 03:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | For centuries before Jesus' time, there have been 23 prophecies that were said to pertain to the Davidic Messiah. Mark listed them. No others were ever recognized by Jews before, Christianity back-engineered most of the so-called 300. As far as the Nazareth thing, it all comes down to a quote in Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene. The problem is that there was never any prophecy stating anything about Nazareth or a Nazarene. You can search in any version of any Old Testament and you cannot find those words - relating to the Moschiach or otherwise. I have seen it referenced back to Isaiah 11:1 1 And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, and a twig shall grow forth out of his roots. but I have never understood how they got a Nazarene out of that. The other interesting thing is that Nazareth didn't exist in any references, anywhere except the Bible, until about the 4th century CE. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 30738753 Bahamas12/27/2012 03:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | the Christian Bible is not the Jewish Tanach. A lot of the predictions were a combo of mistranslations, but changes to wording to support their theology. So, a lot of the convincing arguments go away, when you go back to the original Torah & prophets & writings (our Tanakh). (Such as Issiah 53.) |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 12814585  United States12/27/2012 03:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 30738753 Bahamas12/27/2012 03:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | it cannot be in the HANDS of one man. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12814585 his message must resonate in all our hearts Reasons Jesus wasn’t the Jewish Messiah divine birth/divinity - (the Jewish Messiah will be human – G-d cannot become human – Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 44:6, Hosea 11:9, Ezekiel 28:2, Numbers 23:19) - strike performing miracles - (JM won't perform miracles) - strike taking on the sins of others - (no one can take on the sins of others – Deuteronomy 24:16, Exodus 32:30-35, Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27) - strike breaking Sabbath - strike (JM will be observant) - strike sacrificed/rising from the dead - (G-d rejects human sacrifice and blood sacrifice is NOT an absolute requirement – Deuteronomy 12:30-31, Jeremiah 19:4-6, Psalm 106:37-38, Ezekiel 16:20, Leviticus 5:11-13, Jonah 3:10, Leviticus 17, Leviticus 5:11-13, Numbers 16:47, Numbers 31:50, Isaiah 6:6-7, Jeremiah 7:22-23, Psalm 51:16-17) - strike prophecies unfilled - (JM will accomplish them in one life time) - strike |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 12814585 United States12/27/2012 03:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 30738753 Bahamas12/27/2012 03:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Christians say that he'll do the unfinished ones when he comes back, but the Hebrew scripture makes no mention of a second coming of the Messiah. The so-called prophecies that Jesus was supposed to have fulfilled are all either mistranslations, taken out of context, or trivial. |
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| Anonymous Coward User ID: 865798 United States12/27/2012 03:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | brother man. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12814585 are you suggesting a moshiach will step into the light for us to see? i dont believe this will happen. its up to us to save ourselves. Patience is a virtue and I will continue to wait Is it expected he is to 'arrive' within our generation? Or, is it still, he will come when he comes? I guess I am asking if there are any prophecies or recent 'findings' that make some think he will be arriving within this generation. |
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| Anonymous Coward User ID: 865798 United States12/27/2012 03:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "All the dead shall rise again " ....That's a tall order but kind of cool, Moshiach Zombies. My grandparents were filled with formaldehyde when they were planted, how will the Moshiach deal with that? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29192099 It is said that when the spirit manifests into a material body, the spirit is dead. They say that because the veil drops. "All the dead shall rise", may mean that our spirits will 'live' again while we are embodied in flesh. In other words, the veil is gone. |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 30738753 Bahamas12/27/2012 03:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | brother man. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12814585 are you suggesting a moshiach will step into the light for us to see? i dont believe this will happen. its up to us to save ourselves. Patience is a virtue and I will continue to wait Is it expected he is to 'arrive' within our generation? Or, is it still, he will come when he comes? I guess I am asking if there are any prophecies or recent 'findings' that make some think he will be arriving within this generation. Any signs? Universal peace on earth Messianic Era (Chabad Lubavitch) In the Messianic Era, the Divine plan for the world will be fully realized. There will be universal peace, prosperity, goodness and knowledge of God. The coming Moshiach will not cause a break with the past and the beginning of something entirely new. On the contrary, it is the culmination and crowning stroke of all our efforts toward a world of peace and consummate holiness. Moshiach will free the Jewish People from all servitude to foreign nations, rebuild the Holy Temple in Jerusalem and gather all the Jews of the entire world to Israel. Peace and prosperity will be universal and all the nations of the world will serve the one God. Moshiach will reveal Godliness in every facet of the Creation. He will elevate each of us from our respective limitations and open our eyes to the Godliness that is the inner reality of our life. We will still have our family, friends and possessions. However, they will be more wholesome and meaningful because we will see their true value-their Divine purpose. Description: He will be our leader when we achieve peace on earth. You won't miss him. (He won't be a god.) When will he come? From "The Book of Words," by Lawrence Kushner Tradition wisely warns against "forcing the hand of the Messiah." On the other hand, imagining how much better things could be than they are now only guarantees despair. Sometimes "the best" is the enemy of "the good." If you allow yourself to measure existence against a perfect standard, life will certainly be miserable. Things, by definition, could always be better than they are now. On the other hand, succumbing to the way things are now is to cease dreaming. The balance, perhaps, is to accept the way things are because, like it or not, for better or for worse, that is literally the only way things are. They, of course, can be different, but only later. To worry about "later" is to miss "now." Remember, one of us may be the Messiah. That possibility shouldn't, but nevertheless does, affect how we treat one another. |
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| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 30738753 Bahamas12/27/2012 04:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Although some scholars believed that G-d has set aside a specific date for the coming of the mashiach, most authority suggests that the conduct of mankind will determine the time of the mashiach's coming. In general, it is believed that the mashiach will come in a time when he is most needed (because the world is so sinful), or in a time when he is most deserved (because the world is so good). For example, each of the following has been suggested as the time when the mashiach will come: if Israel repented a single day; if Israel observed a single Shabbat properly; if Israel observed two Shabbats in a row properly; in a generation that is totally innocent or totally guilty; in a generation that loses hope; in a generation where children are totally disrespectful towards their parents and elders; |
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| Anonymous Coward User ID: 865798 United States12/27/2012 04:21 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | HANDELMAN: The Lubavitch movement has recently created quite a stir with its renewed emphasis on the coming of Moshiach. What does it really mean to say that "Moshiach will come"? FRIEDMAN: The ultimate authority on that is Maimonides. Maimonides says that there will be a Jewish leader who will be a descendant of King David who will bring Jews back to Judaism, and who will fight G-d's battle. If he does so, we can assume that he sofer.jpg (27007 bytes)is Moshiach. If he then goes on to build the Temple and gather all Jews back to Israel, then we will know for sure that he is Moshiach. Now this means that Moshiach comes not by introducing himself as Moshiach. Moshiach is a Jewish leader who does his work diligently and accomplishes these things. So Moshiach comes through his accomplishments and not through his pedigree. HANDELMAN: In other words, does the coming of Moshiach mean that we make this "assumption" about a certain person, but the person doesn't himself declare it - and then one day this person finally says, "It's me"? Or does the candidate actually have to go and build the Temple in Jerusalem? FRIEDMAN: Maimonides says that once he builds the Temple and gathers Jews back to Israel, then we know for sure he is Moshiach. He doesn't have to say anything. He will accept the role, but we will give it to him. He won't take it to himself. And his coming, the moment of his coming, in the literal sense, would mean the moment when the whole world recognizes him as Moshiach. HANDELMAN: What specifically does that mean? FRIEDMAN: That both Jew and non-Jew recognize that he is the responsible for all these wonderful improvements in the world. [link to www.kesser.org] |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 30738753 Bahamas12/27/2012 04:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Jews believe God hates human sacrifices In Deuteronomy, Gd calls human sacrifice something that Gd hates; an abomination to Gd. Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the Etrnl thy Gd: for every abomination to the Etrnl, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. [Deuteronomy 12:30-31] In Jeremiah, Gd tells us that Human sacrifice is so horrible a concept, that it did not even come into Gd's mind. Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents; They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spoke it, neither came it into my mind: Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Etrnl, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but The Valley of Slaughter. [Jeremiah 19:4-6] Similarly, in Psalm 106 and in Ezekiel 16: Yea, they sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood. [Psalm 106:37-38] Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter? [Ezekiel 16:20] |
| Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 30738753 Bahamas12/27/2012 04:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Defining the "Coming of the Moshiach" Quoting: Septenary Man HANDELMAN: The Lubavitch movement has recently created quite a stir with its renewed emphasis on the coming of Moshiach. What does it really mean to say that "Moshiach will come"? FRIEDMAN: The ultimate authority on that is Maimonides. Maimonides says that there will be a Jewish leader who will be a descendant of King David who will bring Jews back to Judaism, and who will fight G-d's battle. If he does so, we can assume that he sofer.jpg (27007 bytes)is Moshiach. If he then goes on to build the Temple and gather all Jews back to Israel, then we will know for sure that he is Moshiach. Now this means that Moshiach comes not by introducing himself as Moshiach. Moshiach is a Jewish leader who does his work diligently and accomplishes these things. So Moshiach comes through his accomplishments and not through his pedigree. HANDELMAN: In other words, does the coming of Moshiach mean that we make this "assumption" about a certain person, but the person doesn't himself declare it - and then one day this person finally says, "It's me"? Or does the candidate actually have to go and build the Temple in Jerusalem? FRIEDMAN: Maimonides says that once he builds the Temple and gathers Jews back to Israel, then we know for sure he is Moshiach. He doesn't have to say anything. He will accept the role, but we will give it to him. He won't take it to himself. And his coming, the moment of his coming, in the literal sense, would mean the moment when the whole world recognizes him as Moshiach. HANDELMAN: What specifically does that mean? FRIEDMAN: That both Jew and non-Jew recognize that he is the responsible for all these wonderful improvements in the world. [link to www.kesser.org] Are you a Jew? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 865798 United States12/27/2012 04:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Defining the "Coming of the Moshiach" Quoting: Septenary Man HANDELMAN: The Lubavitch movement has recently created quite a stir with its renewed emphasis on the coming of Moshiach. What does it really mean to say that "Moshiach will come"? FRIEDMAN: The ultimate authority on that is Maimonides. Maimonides says that there will be a Jewish leader who will be a descendant of King David who will bring Jews back to Judaism, and who will fight G-d's battle. If he does so, we can assume that he sofer.jpg (27007 bytes)is Moshiach. If he then goes on to build the Temple and gather all Jews back to Israel, then we will know for sure that he is Moshiach. Now this means that Moshiach comes not by introducing himself as Moshiach. Moshiach is a Jewish leader who does his work diligently and accomplishes these things. So Moshiach comes through his accomplishments and not through his pedigree. HANDELMAN: In other words, does the coming of Moshiach mean that we make this "assumption" about a certain person, but the person doesn't himself declare it - and then one day this person finally says, "It's me"? Or does the candidate actually have to go and build the Temple in Jerusalem? FRIEDMAN: Maimonides says that once he builds the Temple and gathers Jews back to Israel, then we know for sure he is Moshiach. He doesn't have to say anything. He will accept the role, but we will give it to him. He won't take it to himself. And his coming, the moment of his coming, in the literal sense, would mean the moment when the whole world recognizes him as Moshiach. HANDELMAN: What specifically does that mean? FRIEDMAN: That both Jew and non-Jew recognize that he is the responsible for all these wonderful improvements in the world. [link to www.kesser.org] Are you a Jew? Nope. I am nothing. I have never been religious or part of any religion. I am very 'spiritual' and take things from every 'religion' or philosophy that I agree with. I am a mixed bag.  |
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| Anonymous Coward User ID: 30962657  Germany12/27/2012 05:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | . PROPHECY: A Heavy Stone, A Bitter Burden - "O Jerusalem, why have you forsaken Me?!" Says The Lord video link: [link to www.youtube.com] . |
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