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Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah

 
Shamar
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12/28/2012 01:36 PM
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Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
It seems that there is at least one person who disagrees with this scriptural statement, however, although he has started a thread to disprove the theory, he has banned any who have disproving comments and scriptures.

Christians have been taught to believe that all blood sacrifice was ceased once Messiah ministered, taught, died and was resurrected. They have been taught that he was the final blood sacrifice.

In many ways, they are correct. However, to follow the scriptures as presented, blood sacrifice did NOT cease with His resurrection and ascension.

Paul proves this by his own actions......not his words, but his actions.
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Shamar (OP)

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12/28/2012 01:37 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Most Messianics today, by their own understanding of the scriptures, say that the ONLY reason blood sacrifice does not continue today is due to the lace of a "temple."

However, the temple existed during Paul's ministry, and blood sacrifice most certainly did continue.
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 01:38 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
I have to wonder why God ever mandated blood sacrifices in the first place, but whatever...
Shamar (OP)

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12/28/2012 01:40 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Most Messianics today, by their own understanding of the scriptures, say that the ONLY reason blood sacrifice does not continue today is due to the lace of a "temple."

However, the temple existed during Paul's ministry, and blood sacrifice most certainly did continue.
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Shamar (OP)

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12/28/2012 01:40 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
I have to wonder why God ever mandated blood sacrifices in the first place, but whatever...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1277549


He didn't~!! that is the whole problem!!
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 01:56 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Can you tell me where you are finding this in the bible?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/28/2012 01:58 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Can you tell me where you are finding this in the bible?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17888588


Which, Paul's sacrifice, or that God didn't want blood sacrifice?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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12/28/2012 02:54 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
bump
Shamar (OP)

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12/28/2012 03:51 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
no nay sayers? I know there are plenty who disagree with this.
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 04:05 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
incorrect!
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 04:09 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Op, what's your religious background?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
incorrect!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30969563


Thanks for your response.
Shamar (OP)

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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Op, what's your religious background?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11765896


I was born and raised Roman Catholic, attended Catholic schools.......married and baptized my firstborn Catholic. I left that institution at the age of 22 or so, and attended non-demonination churches for the next 30 or so years. I began to see problems within protestantism and begann tracing Hebraic roots through christianity back to when Messiah ministered. After following a form, if you will, of Messianic beliefs, I saw that there continued to be inconsistencies with that also, as it revolved around the very same christian beliefs that demonstrated so many problems.

My beliefs now center around the most original possible teachings of the Most High and it's my desire to share those beliefs with anyone who will listen.
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 05:26 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Thanks for sharing your background Shamar,...Have you studied the book of Hebrews... and what do you think of these verses Heb.9:19-28?

Hebrews 9:19-28
King James Version (KJV)

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission
.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation
.
Shamar (OP)

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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Thanks for sharing your background Shamar,...Have you studied the book of Hebrews... and what do you think of these verses Heb.9:19-28?

Hebrews 9:19-28
King James Version (KJV)

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission
.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation
.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11765896


This text, particularly the bolded part, refers back to Exodus 24:5-8. If you look closely, you will see a number of details do not agree. Exodus says nothing about the blood of "goats." It says nothing about the use of "water, scarlet wool and hyssop." It states that Moshe sprinkled the blood on the altar. The author of Hebrews says that he sprinkled the "Book of the Covenant" with blood.

Furthermore, the Hebrews text claims that Moshe sprinkled the Tabernacle and all its utensils with BLOOD in order to purify it. However, at the time Moshe allegedly kiled the young bulls and made the BLOOD COVENANT with the Israelites, the TABERNACLE and its UTENSILS were not even in existence yet. It was constructed some 9 months later.

And when the Tabernacle and its utensils were prified LATER, it was not done with BLOOD, but rather with OIL. (Exodus 40:9-11).

The author of Hebrews writes that no forgiveness can be obtained unless blood is shed. But that is, and wasn't, true. A reading of the Tanak shows that sin coujld be forgiven without the shedding of blood. Those who couldn't *afford* animals, could offer a grain offering. Some purification could be obtained with water. Some purification could be obtained with fire. Gold was used and incense was used.

It should be noted that WATER is the real cleanser and purifier, and not blood.

The author of Hebrews wrote that the High Priest offered a sacrifce on a daily basis in order to atone for his own sin and the sin of the nation. But a reading of the Tanak shows the High Priest was obligated to offer sacrifice once a year only. Another boo-boo was that Hebrews writes that the "altar of insence" was located in the Holy of Holies. Exodus 30:6 locates it in the Holy Place. If the altar was in the Holy of Holies - to which access was barred to all except the High Priest once a year -- how then would the priests have been able to offer daily incense?

Edit: this got posted before I was ready, somehow. I just want to add that i do not negate nor deny the work Messiah did upon the stake.

Last Edited by Shamar on 12/28/2012 05:53 PM
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Morganite

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12/28/2012 06:12 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Do you believe in this work that Messiah Jesus did on the stake?

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb.10:10

"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

And having a high priest over the house of God;

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." Hebrews 10:19-22


Last Edited by Morganite on 12/28/2012 06:13 PM
morganite
Shamar (OP)

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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Do you believe in this work that Messiah Jesus did on the stake?

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb.10:10

"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

And having a high priest over the house of God;

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." Hebrews 10:19-22

 Quoting: Morganite


i do not negate nor deny the work Messiah did upon the stake.
 Quoting: Shamar

Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Morganite

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12/28/2012 07:04 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
thumbsbumphf
morganite
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Op, what's your religious background?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11765896


I was born and raised Roman Catholic, attended Catholic schools.......married and baptized my firstborn Catholic. I left that institution at the age of 22 or so, and attended non-demonination churches for the next 30 or so years. I began to see problems within protestantism and begann tracing Hebraic roots through christianity back to when Messiah ministered. After following a form, if you will, of Messianic beliefs, I saw that there continued to be inconsistencies with that also, as it revolved around the very same christian beliefs that demonstrated so many problems.

My beliefs now center around the most original possible teachings of the Most High and it's my desire to share those beliefs with anyone who will listen.
 Quoting: Shamar


so you just make it up as you go along.

Oh and Nay....
Shamar (OP)

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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Op, what's your religious background?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11765896


I was born and raised Roman Catholic, attended Catholic schools.......married and baptized my firstborn Catholic. I left that institution at the age of 22 or so, and attended non-demonination churches for the next 30 or so years. I began to see problems within protestantism and begann tracing Hebraic roots through christianity back to when Messiah ministered. After following a form, if you will, of Messianic beliefs, I saw that there continued to be inconsistencies with that also, as it revolved around the very same christian beliefs that demonstrated so many problems.

My beliefs now center around the most original possible teachings of the Most High and it's my desire to share those beliefs with anyone who will listen.
 Quoting: Shamar


so you just make it up as you go along.

Oh and Nay....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19804788


nope......... we are all on our path. It's a journey. And not everybody is at the same point, at any given time.


Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Last Edited by Shamar on 12/28/2012 07:10 PM
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Shamar (OP)

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12/28/2012 07:11 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Op, what's your religious background?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11765896


I was born and raised Roman Catholic, attended Catholic schools.......married and baptized my firstborn Catholic. I left that institution at the age of 22 or so, and attended non-demonination churches for the next 30 or so years. I began to see problems within protestantism and begann tracing Hebraic roots through christianity back to when Messiah ministered. After following a form, if you will, of Messianic beliefs, I saw that there continued to be inconsistencies with that also, as it revolved around the very same christian beliefs that demonstrated so many problems.

My beliefs now center around the most original possible teachings of the Most High and it's my desire to share those beliefs with anyone who will listen.
 Quoting: Shamar


so you just make it up as you go along.

Oh and Nay....

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19804788


love the video, by the way!!hf We laugh at our horses when there are birds just sitting on their butts, and they could care less!
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Shamar (OP)

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12/28/2012 08:00 PM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
bump
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Shamar (OP)

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12/29/2012 11:22 AM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
*
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Shamar (OP)

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12/29/2012 11:23 AM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
ok, mods........what is going on with my thread? I have tried FOUR TIMES to post, and it gets obliterated.

What is going
on? All I am doing is quoting scripture!!!!!

Last Edited by Shamar on 12/29/2012 11:34 AM
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
ANHEDONIC

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12/29/2012 11:46 AM

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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
ok, mods........what is going on with my thread? I have tried FOUR TIMES to post, and it gets obliterated.

What is going
on? All I am doing is quoting scripture!!!!!
 Quoting: Shamar


If the post disappears immediately after you try and submit it, it means there is a banned word or phrase within the text. The forum will do this automatically.

"You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger"
Shamar (OP)

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12/29/2012 11:47 AM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
ok, mods........what is going on with my thread? I have tried FOUR TIMES to post, and it gets obliterated.

What is going
on? All I am doing is quoting scripture!!!!!
 Quoting: Shamar


If the post disappears immediately after you try and submit it, it means there is a banned word or phrase within the text. The forum will do this automatically.
 Quoting: ANHEDONIC


wow, how am i supposed to figure out which word or phrase?

Last Edited by Shamar on 12/29/2012 11:58 AM
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Shamar (OP)

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12/29/2012 11:48 AM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Here is an explanation of how, and why Paul did in fact participate in animal sacrifice.

But first, we must understand what it meant to have taken the vow, and that is explained in Numbers.
There is outlined in the Torah, Numbers, the procedure for those who would separate themselves onto God. This for a period of time…….. At the time of Paul, the customary minimum time, was 30, 60 or 100 days. It was known however, that there were lifetime devotees…….. Samson was one, John the Baptist another.

Num. 6:1 Again Yahveh spoke to Moses, saying, Num. 6:2 Speak to the Sons of Israel and say to them, When a man or woman makes a special vow, the vow of a Nazarite, to dedicate himself to Yahveh,

Num. 6:3 he shall abstain from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar, whether made from wine or strong drink, nor shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat fresh or dried grapes.

Num. 6:4 All the days of his separation he shall not eat anything that is produced by the grape vine, from the seeds even to the skin.

Num. 6:5 All the days of his vow of separation no razor shall pass over his head. He shall be holy until the days are fulfilled for which he separated himself to Yahveh. He shall let the locks of hair on his head grow long.

Num. 6:6 All the days of his separation to Yahveh he shall not go near to a dead person.

Num. 6:7 He shall not make himself unclean for his father or for his mother, for his brother or for his sister, when they die, because his separation to God is on his head.
Num. 6:8: 'All the days of his separation he is holy to Yahveh.'
Num. 6:9: 'But if a man dies very suddenly beside him and he defiles his dedicated head of hair, then he shall shave his head on the day when he becomes clean. He shall shave it on the seventh day.'

Num. 6:10: 'Then on the eighth day he shall bring two turtle doves or two young pigeons to the priest, to the doorway of the Tent of Meeting.'

Num. 6:11: 'The priest shall offer one for a Sin Offering and the other for a Burnt Offering, and make atonement for him concerning his sin because of the dead person. And that same day he shall consecrate his head,'

Num. 6:12: 'and shall dedicate to Yahveh his days as a Nazarite, and shall bring a male lamb a year old for a Guilt Offering. But the former days will be void because his separation was defiled.'

Num. 6:13: 'Now this is the law of the Nazarite when the days of his separation are fulfilled. He shall bring the offering to the doorway of the Tent of Meetin
g.'
Num. 6:14: 'He shall present his offering to Yahveh; one male lamb a year old without defect for a Burnt Offering, and one ewe-lamb a year old without defect for a Sin Offering, and one ram without defect for a Peace Offering,'

Num. 6:15: 'and a basket of unleavened cakes of fine flour mixed with oil and unleavened wafers spread with oil, along with their Grain Offering and their Wine Offering.'

Num. 6:16: 'Then the priest shall present them before Yahveh and shall offer his Sin Offering and his Burnt Offering.'

Num. 6:17: 'He shall also offer the ram for a sacrifice of Peace Offerings to Yahveh together with the basket of unleavened cakes. The priest shall likewise offer its Grain Offering and its Wine Offering.'
Num. 6:18: 'The Nazarite shall then shave his dedicated head of hair at the doorway of the Tent of Meeting, and take the dedicated hair of his head and put it on the fire which is under the sacrifice of Peace Offerings.'

Num. 6:19: 'The priest shall take the ram's shoulder when it has been boiled, and one unleavened cake out of the basket and one unleavened wafer, and shall put them in the hands of the Nazarite after he has shaved his dedicated hair.'

Num. 6:20: 'Then the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before Yahveh. It is holy for the priest, together with the breast offered by waving and the thigh offered by lifting up. And afterward the Nazarite may drink wine.'

Num. 6:21: 'This is the law of the Nazarite who vows his offering to Yahveh according to his separation, in addition to what else he can afford, according to his vow which he takes, so he shall do according to the law of his separation.'


Those are the requirements placed in the Torah for the taking of the vow.
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Shamar (OP)

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12/29/2012 11:56 AM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Now, in Acts 21, we see that Paul, at the bequest of Yaacob, the brother of Messiah, participated in the ENDING of the vow of four others……this was to show and prove that he still followed the Torah.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the J**s which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,

28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

29 (For they had seen before with him in the city Trophimus an Ephesian, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Shamar (OP)

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12/29/2012 11:57 AM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
Now, ask yourself, was this a lie? Did Paul actively perform a lie in order to win believers? What is it a façade? Was it a joke?

I don’t thinks so. There are only 7 days mentioned in Acts
21. Not enough time according to the customary belief, to fulfill a Nazarite vow. So if it was a joke or a façade, the Jews of that time would have seen right through it, and he would have convinced nobody of anything, but that he was a fraud.

To end the vow, there were specific steps to be taken, as you can see in Numbers above. Paul knew the Torah…..and he knew the steps. The final steps were: the Nazarite, at the end of his Vow, was to bring at least three animals for sacrifice. They were:
1. a yearling lamb for a Burnt Offering (6:14),
2. a ewe lamb for a Sin Offering (6:14),
3. and a ram for a Peace Offering (6:14).

So Paul was actively prepared (as instructed) to pay for the offering. He wouldn’t just pay for it……..He would partake of it……. That doesn’t mean he would kill the animal himself, but it does mean, he would PAY for the other four, and would present his own offering for ending his vow. But wait!! Acts 21 doesn’t actually SAY he took the vow. Well, again,, he must have, or he would have been recognized right off the bat as being a fraud.
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Shamar (OP)

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12/29/2012 11:58 AM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
So……did he take the vow? Yes!! He did! Look at Acts 18.


12 But when Gallio became the Roman governor of Achaia, the unbelieving Jews made a concerted attack on Sha’ul and took him to court, 13 saying, “This man is trying to persuade people to worship God in ways that violate the Torah.” 14 Sha’ul was just about to open his mouth, when Gallio said to the Jews, “Listen, you Jews, if this were a case of inflicted injury or a serious crime, I could reasonably be expected to hear you out patiently. 15 But since it involves questions about words and names and your own law, then you must deal with it yourselves. I flatly refuse to judge such matters.” 16 And he had them ejected from the court. 17 They all grabbed Sosthenes, the president of the synagogue, and gave him a beating in full view of the bench; but Gallio showed no concern whatever.
Sha’ul remained for some time, then said good-bye to the brothers and sailed off to Syria, after having his hair cut short in Cenchrea, because he had taken a vow;


We can see, by following the scriptures precept by precept, that Paul did NOT believe that animal sacrifice had been abolished by the ministry, death and resurrection of Messiah.

Last Edited by Shamar on 12/29/2012 12:00 PM
Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. You can feel the same life deep within every other human and every other creature. You look beyond the veil of form and separation. This is the realization of oneness. This is love. What is God? The Eternal One Life underneath all the forms of life. What is love? To feel the presence of that One Life deep within yourself and within all creatures. To be it. Therefore, all love is the love of God.

Death is a stripping away of all that is not you. The secret of life is to die before you die - and find that there is no death.
Anonymous Coward
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12/29/2012 11:59 AM
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Re: Paul Practiced Blood Sacrifice after the Resurrection of Messiah
I disagree with your statement in light of the whole 9th chapter of Hebrews.
Especially since Christ died ONCE for all sin and all time-- that covered it. There is nothing in scripture I can find to back your claim. When Christ said "It is finished"-- It was finished.

But, the unbelieving Israelite priests kept on in their dead religion... They sewed up the veil that was torn and wanted to keep sacrificing according to the law. But now we live by faith, not the works of the law. Read Galatians3.

I would say once Paul went up to Arabia and received instruction from the risen Lord most likely on Mt. Sinai to get Judaism and the law flushed out of his thinking he didn't do any animal sacrifice. Read Galatians 1:9-19. Just look at verse 12, and verse 18 for emphasis..


Stop majoring on the minors and speculative theory. The Gospel of Christ's death, burial and resurrection for our salvation is the major you need to focus on.

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