NDEs or Near Death Experiences are Lies From Satan!

2 Corinthians 12:4

New International Version (©1984)
was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.

New Living Translation (©2007)
that I was caught up to paradise and heard things so astounding that they cannot be expressed in words, things no human is allowed to tell.

English Standard Version (©2001)
and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

[link to bible.cc]

I never said people were never caught up in the spirit. DO notice they never had a long story to tell only that it was unspeakable. I am saying that almost all if not all NDEs are full of lies and deceptions.

Last Edited by Veresanctus on 12/30/2012 04:48 PM

If it transforms their lives towards the good,who are we to say it is not of God?

What "good" do you speak of? If those are led astray away from the gospel how is that good?

Last Edited by Veresanctus on 12/30/2012 06:25 PM

Is OP catholic? If so, I suggest you forget everything they've ever taught you. It's mostly false religion. If you're not a catholic, you seem to lean toward their way of thinking. Keep searching.

I am not catholic nor am I leaning in their direction. They believe in works based salvation yet I do not. They also believe in all kinds of modern day signs and visions, I do not.

Exactly how am I leaning in their direction?

Listen up, OP

the old 'work of satin' crap is old .... very old


Next: do you really believe the Big God .. the ONE .. the Real God

created this shithole ?


If you do, you have big problems of your own and shouldn't be presuming to advise others


The reason so many are claiming to be athiests is because one look around this hell-hole is enough to convince any sane person that the god of this planet isn't right in the head

Only sane conclusion therefore, is that the Big God, the Real God, is not the god of this planet

That doesn't mean the Real God doesn't exist. Because he does. And he's tried to offer an exit for those sickened by this place. He's tried to offer support. He's tried to offer encouragement and a helping hand

Now, what do you know about the Real God, OP ?

Has it ever occurred to you that the REAL God is not as presented in that book written by MORTAL MEN ?

Ever occurred to you that the REAL God is far more humane, much less insane, far more merciful than as portrayed in that book?

Ok. Next question: have you ever encountered a discarnate spirit -- a 'ghost' if you like?

Ever had your life saved by someone who's exited their physical body ?

Well, millions HAVE. They don't need permission from you, or a guy in a frock or a book to know that what they experienced was REAL

All of which suggests very strongly that the whole Afterlife thing is FAR from the way it's portrayed in that BOOK which was written by mortal men who had agendas and jealousies and brain damage


So don't presume to tell people that what they've experienced is the work of some 'satin'

because you have NO idea, apart from stuff you swallowed whole from a book written by mortal men who had brain damage, who were uneducated, who had low IQs, who had agendas, who were trying to 'grow' their own particular religious (meaning POLITICAL) agendas


Learn some humility. You weren't there when people were having Near Death Experiences. You don't know anything about it. You were programmed to accept a particular religious idealogy and you thought that gave you personal power

well it does not

you have no power

you speak with NO authority

all you're doing is peddling your OWN narrow concepts which aren't even original --- you swallowed them as they were fed to you and now you think that empowers you to feed it to others


Millions of people have experienced Neath Death. The experience is SPONTANEOUS. Meaning --- it's NATURAL. It's an ability, an experience that is hard wired in humans. They are MEANT and DESIGNED to have such experiences

and for those who've experienced NDE --- it's a damn sight more meaningful to them than a lifetime of paranoid, power-mad, anti-human religion


So you go on investing energy in 'satin'


and let others get on with what is, after all, their own experiences

which are NON of your damn business

like most religitards, op thinks about "satan" and "demons" 24/7 for some reason.

Because OP is a Demon and they want some friends in their sad lonely personal hell which they have created and trapped themselves in.

What AC said!

Demons believe in Jesus. Are they saved? It doesn't make any sense that Satan would say that you must avoid sin in order to be saved. Satans WANTS you to sin, he doesn't want to tell you that you must avoid sinning.
It makes a lot more sense that Satan would tell us that it's alright to sin as long as you believe in Jesus. Now THAT'S the real lie here. Are you seriously telling people that they WILLINGLY can sin without paying for it?

Anything the Church can't explain, it blames on 'satin' or 'evil spirits'

'Satin' and 'evil spirits' have put more money in the Church's pockets than God or Christ ever did

The Church pushes FEAR of God, not LOVE of God


e.g., Woman named Jenny Cockells. Born in England. From earliest childhood, she drew pictures of a place she knew. Yet she had no experience of that place in her current life

As she got older ( age 7, age 12, age 15, etc.) she continued to 'remember' being in a place with tall windows. And her thoughts were consumed with worry about her 'children'. Yet she was just a kid herself

Time moved on. The memories continued to haunt her. She married and had children, pursued her profession

Then, finally, she was able to afford the money and time to travel to Ireland for a brief visit. Ireland was the location of the out-of-place-and-time memories which had haunted her since she was a very young child

Once in Ireland, she located the place of her memories

Upon her return to England and her real-life family, she tried to research what she 'remembered' and had seen whilst in Ireland

Finally, she was provided documents which proved the existence of her past-life self and her past-life children

Amazingly, some of those 'children' were still alive, although they were elderly

Jenny Cockell finally succeeded in gaining permission from one of her past-life children to visit him. He was a life-long devote Roman Catholic. He was terrified of the concept of past-lives. Several of his siblings (who were also past-life children of Jenny Cockell) refused, on the advice of their clergy, to see her

One, however, did reluctantly agree to hear her out. His name as a child had been 'Sonny'. He didn't believe this young woman (Jenny Cockell) could possibly be his long-dead mother reincarnated. However, in one of her several visits with him, Jenny reminded him of an incident from his youth -- something he'd never confided in anyone, not even his elderly wife

Sonny, against everything taught by his religion, was finally compelled to accept (althoug tentatively) that this young woman must be his long-dead mother. The evidence was just too compelling to ignore or be denied

In time, Jenny Cockell managed to spend time with other of her past-life children. She wrote a book about it and she and her past-life children (all of whom were much older than she) appeared on US tv

When confronted with the evidence, the Roman Church found itself in a quandry. The evidence was compelling. It would be very difficult for the Church to debunk. At the same time, however, the Church was loathe to admit that reincarnation -- at least in the case of Jenny Cockell -- had apparently been proven

So the Church devised a solution. It would not publicly admit that Jenny Cockell was the reincarnated mother of the several siblings for to admit this would be to reduce the power of the Church and its age-old claims of absolute Heaven and Hell

Instead, the Church agreed that Jenny Cockell was not herself the reincarnated mother of the now elderly children, but had been SENT BY the mother to let the children know their mother still loved and worried about them ! Talk about a nonsensical splitting of hairs on the part of the Church !

But, if we take the Church's version at face value, it's even more incredible than the reincarnation of the children's mother. For the Church is claiming that if we die and are unable to 'let go' of loved-ones on earth, then we can arrange for someone yet to be born to act as our intermediary on earth. How's that?

The Church is stubborn in the way it protects it's 'turf' here on earth. And the Church knows bugger all about what happens after you exit earth and seems to care even less. Possibly because once you're dead, the Church can't get any more money out of you or control you or use you to further its own interests

But there's more. If you run a search for electronic voice phenomena and the church, you're very likely to be presented with the Roman church's experiments into the voices of the dead. In fact, the Church is very involved in paranormal phenomena

For instance, a Roman Catholic sound-recordist and monk was editing Gregorian chants he'd earlier recorded in a Vatican-funded recording studio, when he heard the voice of his deceased father

He ran the tape through again and sure enough ... it was his father there in the recording

The monk listened to the recording a number of times and was so concerned, he referred it to his superiors. Because he was AFRAID HE WAS BEING TRICKED BY SATIN

To his immense surprise, his seniors advised him this was 'all perfectly normal' and quite common. Apparently, the Church is well versed in phenomena such as voices from the dead

The monk's father, in the recording, had referred to him as 'Zuccini', which had been the nickname used for him by his father when he was young. Vatican authorities told him it was his father and not 'the work of satin'. Vatian authorities were nonplussed by the fact the monk's long dead father had chosen to communicate with him via recordings he was making on Church owned equipment

So what the Church knows and what the Church actually gets up to is a far cry from what the Church advocates for the sheepies

And this will be revealed to you if you embark on research into the Church's long and deep involvement into the so-called 'paranormal'. For example, who knew the Church had funded two Jesuits to investigate electronic voice phenomena over a period of several years? EVP are voices of the dead, the departed. The Jesuits revealed in a subsequent book (published with the knowledge and permission of the Church) that they had, during their research, recorded the 'ghost' voices of no less than 277,000 dead individuals. You could probably obtain a copy of the book if you searched hard enough

Seems the Church isn't too worried about 'satin'. They just ensure the sheepies are obsessed by and terrified of said 'satin'

Re: the Roman Church's position on Voices from the Dead (aka EVP) etc:

Took me all of a minute to find


Quote: "
his area of research became known as “Electronic Voice Phenomena” or EVP for short. Many famous people considered pioneers in their fields such as Marconi, Edison, Sir Oliver Lodge, Sir William Crookes and John Logie Baird were all totally convinced of the reality of Spirit communication by EVP and were using their professional skills and reputations to prove it. Even the Christian churches were open-Minded to EVP including Catholics, Protestants and Fundamentalists.


The Catholic church has even actively encouraged research directed towards Electronic Voice Phenomena. Two of the earliest religious investigators were Father Ernetti and Father Gemelli who stumbled upon the Electronic Voice Phenomena while recording Gregorian chants in 1952. Father Gemelli apparently heard the voice of his own deceased father on the tape saying, “Zucchini, it is clear, don’t you know it is I”. “Zucchini” was the childhood name of Father Gemelli. Pope Pius, the cousin of the Rev. Professor Dr Gebhard Frei was co-founder of the Jung Institute and was an internationally recognised and respected parapsychologist who worked very closely with Dr Konstantin Raudive, a pioneer of EVP working in Germany. Rev Frei stated: “all that I have read and heard forces me to believe that the voices come from transcendental, individual entities. Whether it suits me or not, I have no right to doubt the reality of the voices”-- Rev. Professor Dr Gebhard Frei.


Rev. Professor Dr Gebhard Frei died October 27 1967. In November 1967 at numerous EVP tape recording sessions a voice claiming to be Gebhard Frei was recorded. The voice was positively confirmed and identified by Professor Peter Hohenwarter of the University of Vienna as unquestionably the voice belonging to Dr Frei.

The Catholic religion became increasingly supportive of EVP research with several Vatican approved researchers producing compelling evidence for EVP. Father Leo Schmid, a Swiss theologist, collected more than ten thousand recorded voices in his book “When the Dead Speak” in 1976, published shortly after his death.

In England, in 1972, four senior members of the Catholic church became involved in the famous Pye Recording Studio tests conducted by Peter Bander. Father Pistone, Superior of the Society of St. Paul in England, said after the tests:

“I do not see anything against the teaching of the Catholic church in the voices, they are something extra-ordinary, but there is no reason to fear them, nor can I see any danger”. --Father Pistone.

A series of high and respected officials of the Catholic church subsequently lent support to EVP in what has now become a firm Vatican position of acceptance for these “voices from beyond”. The following definitive statement was issued by Father Gino Concetti at the Vatican:

“According to the modern catechism, God allows our dear departed persons who live in an ultra-terrestrial dimension, to send messages to guide us in certain difficult moments of our lives. The Church has decided not to forbid any more the dialogue with the deceased with the condition that these contacts are carried out with a serious religious and scientific purpose”

Printed in the Vatican newspaper Osservatore Romano and cited in Sarah Estep's American Association Electronic Voice Phenomena, Inc Newsletter, Vol 16 No, 2 1997.


The “ultra-terrestrial dimension” to which Father Concetti refers is of course the Astral worlds, again often known as the “beyond” or the “afterlife”. The church itself does not as yet appear to officially support the reality of the true multi-dimensional nature of the Universe, or indeed the reality of the true purpose and destiny of mankind, it is however most positive that indeed it does at least officially support the reality of the continuity of life in an inner dimension after death of the physical body. End Quote

[link to www.ourultimatereality.com]

Still more:


Quote:

" The Vatican supports EVP

Unknown to many Christians?Catholics, Protestants and Fundamentalists—the Catholic Church has been actively positive and encouraging towards investigation of the Electronic Voice Phenomena.

• Two of the earliest investigators were Italian Catholic priests, Father Ernetti and Father Gemelli, who came upon the phenomena by chance while they were recording Gregorian chants in 1952.

• Father Gemelli heard his own father's voice on the tape calling him by a childhood nick-name saying 'Zucchini, it is clear, don't you know it is I '.

• Deeply troubled by Catholic teaching in regard to contact with the dead the two priests visited Pope Pius XII in Rome.

• The Pope reassured them:

Dear Father Gemelli, you really need not worry about this. The existence of this voice is strictly a scientific fact and has nothing to do with spiritism. The recorder is totally objective. It receives and records only sound waves from wherever they come. This experiment may perhaps become the cornerstone for a building for scientific studies which will strengthen people's faith in a hereafter .
(Italian Journal Astra, June 1990 quoted Kubis and Macy, 1995: 102).


• Pope Pius' cousin, the Rev. Professor Dr Gebhard Frei, co-founder of the Jung Institute, was an internationally known parapsychologist who worked closely with Raudive, a pioneer in the research. He was also the President of the International Society for Catholic Parapsychologists. He himself is on record as stating:

All that I have read and heard forces me to believe that the voices come from transcendental, individual entities. Whether it suits me or not, I have no right to doubt the reality of the voices (Kubris and Macy, 1995:104).

• Dr Frie died on October 27, 1967. In November 1967 at numerous taping sessions a voice giving its name as Gebhard Frei came through. The voice was identified by Professor Peter Hohenwarter of the University of Vienna as positively belonging to Dr Frei (Ostrander and Schroeder, 1977: 271).

• Pope Paul VI was well aware of the work being done from 1959 onwards on the Elecronic Voices by his good friend, Swedish film producer Friedrich Jurgenson, who had made a documentary film about him. The Pope made Jurgenson a Knight Commander of the Order of St Gregory in 1969 for his work (see picture left). Jurgenson wrote to Bander, a British voice researcher:

I have found a sympathetic ear for the Voice Phenomenon in the Vatican. I have won many wonderful friends among the leading figures in the Holy City. Today 'the bridge' stands firmly on its foundations (Ostrander and Schroeder, 1977: 264).

• The Vatican also gave permission for its own priests to conduct research into the voices—Father Leo Schmid, a Swiss theologist, collected more than ten thousand of them in his book When the Dead Speak which was published in 1976, shortly after his death.

• Another Vatican-approved researcher was Father Andreas Resch who as well as conducting his own experiments began courses in Parapsychology at the Vatican's school for priests in Rome (Kubris and Macy, 1995:104).

• In 1970 the International Society for Catholic Parapsychologists held a conference in Austria and a major part of that conference was concerned with papers on the Electronic Voice Phenomena.

• In England in 1972 four senior members of the Catholic hierarchy were involved in the famous Pye recording studio tests conducted by Peter Bander.

• Father Pistone, Superior of the Society of St Paul in England, said in an interview after the tests:

I do not see anything against the teaching of the Catholic Church in the Voices, they are something extra-ordinary but there is no reason to fear them, nor can I see any danger (Bander 1973: 132).

The Church realizes that she cannot control the evolution of science. Here we are dealing with a scientific phenomenon; this is progress and the Church is progressive. I am happy to see that representatives of most Churches have adopted the same attitude as we have: we recognize that the subject of the Voice Phenomena stirs the imagination even of those who have always maintained that there could never be any proof or basis for discussion on the question of life after death. This book and the subsequent experiments raise serious doubts, even in the minds of atheists. This alone is a good reason for the Church supporting the experiments. A second reason may be found in the greater flexibility of the Church since Vatican II, we are willing to keep an open mind on all matters which do not contradict Christ's teaching (Bander 1973:103).

• His excellence, Archbishop H.E. Cardinale, Apostolic Nuncio to Belgium, commented:

Naturally it is all very mysterious, but we know the voices are there for all to hear them (Bander 1973: 132).

• The Right Reverend Monsignor Professor C. Pfleger commented:

Facts have made us realize that between death and resurrection there is another realm of post-mortal existence. Christian theology has little to say about this realm (Bander 1973 : 133).

• Bander's book (1973: 133) contains a photograph of the Right Reverend Mgr. Stephen O'Connor, Vicar General and Principal Roman Catholic Chaplain to the Royal Navy, listening to the playback of a recording on which a voice had manifested claiming to be that of a young Russian naval officer known to himself who had committed suicide two years earlier. Dr Raudive had recorded the message independently at an earlier session.

• Since the 1970s the Vatican has continued to sponsor extensive research into all areas of parapsychology including Electronic Voice Phenomena.

• Recently Father Gino Concetti, one of the most competent theologians in the Vatican, said in an interview:

According to the modern catechism, God allows our dear departed persons who live in an ultra-terrestrial dimension, to send messages to guide us in certain difficult moments of our lives. The Church has decided not to forbid any more the dialogue with the deceased with the condition that these contacts are carried out with a serious religious and scientific purpose (printed in the Vatican newspaper Osservatore Romano—cited in Sarah Estep's American Association Electronic VoicePhenomena, Inc Newsletter, vol 16 No, 2 1997 )

Clearly, the Catholic Church realizes that science is making enormous, inevitable, irreversible and cumulative progress which nobody is in a position to stop.

[link to www.victorzammit.com]

I'm not advocating anyone involves him/her self with electronic voice phenomena. In fact, I suspect it might traumatise and/or terrify some

However, we have the OP claiming that 'satin' is responsible for neath death experiences and that 'satin' creates NDE's to 'trick' experiencers


People will have to weigh it up for themselves

On one hand, as shown above, the Vatican itself has stated it no longer forbids people from 'dialogue' with the dead, also that the Church recognises communication with the dead is possible, even normal

Compare contact with the dead with near death experiences. Which do you feel to be the more 'fantastic', 'unbelievable', 'harmful', 'harmless', 'benign', 'frightening', etc. ?


For example, I awakened in hospital after a medical procedure. While I was gathering my wits and working out where I was, etc., the person in the next bed spoke to me urgently. They, too, had just undergone a medical procedure, and the most important thing on their mind despite post-operative pain, was to relate to a total stranger the fact that they had 'left their body' whilst on the operating table

I didn't know the person, but it was clear they were sincere. They wanted nothing from me, apart from someone to talk to, to relate their experience. I don't know if they were worried they might die and so wanted to make sure at least SOMEone knew about their Near Death Experience so that it wouldn't be lost

Their story was typical of most NDEs. They recounted leaving their body and being so GLAD to be free of it

They saw their physical body below, being worked upon by doctors

They did NOT want to return to their body and felt nothing for it, as if it had nothing to do with them

Then, they said, they'd 'seen' their family below, in the waiting room. Saw members of their family crying and worried. And they knew they couldn't just leave their family or children. As soon as they'd had that thought, they'd been back in their body. And they hated how heavy it felt, hated 'being back'

So there they were, a couple of hours later, in the bed next to mine. They wanted to make it clear that they hadn't left their physical body 'on purpose'. 'It just happened', they said. They didnt' know how, but it had felt wonderful -- best feeling they'd ever had. Not frightening

While relating this to me, they seemed to have no interest in their physical condition. They were still shell shocked about experiencing a Near Death Experience. It had clearly had an enormous impact upon them. Previous to this, apparently, they'd had no knowledge of Near Death Experience

My opinion is that they were genuine and had the experience they described. It was spontaneous - unsought. I do believe it will continue to occupy their thoughts and I believe to a large degree, fear of death in that person will be greatly reduced, because they know now that they are more than their physical body and that physical life is only part of the story. Therefore, I believe their NDE was a positive one and do not agree with the OPs assertion that the experience was concocted by 'satin'

Plenty of people "avoid" sin and try to be perfect to be saved but that will NOT save you, and THAT is the LIE.

Only Jesus Christ can save you and I have never seen an NDE say that to be saved people must put their faith in Him, which is what the bible says that we must do (and not anything else) to be saved from damnation.

NDEs are paths that Satan uses to lead people astray just like UFOs and New Age teachings which always have a spiritual aspect that goes AGAINST the Gospel.

op


You continue to copy-paste the same stuff


but you have failed throughout to address others posts



That's a symptom of an inflexible mind. Donkeys are said to have inflexible minds. Stones and rocks have inflexible minds


Face it --- you're not intelligent

and you are afraid to even consider anything which differs from your programming


You lose. You are losing, big time

You cultists are so fucked up its like something out of a crazy movie. I can't wait for the end so you can get schooled and see how wrong you are. You cult Christians could not possibly be more incorrect.

You clearly have no understanding of Truth and the works of the Adversary. He is a Liar and the father of it.

If Satan can diminish the fear of death in people then maybe they would be less inclined to seek after God and the Truth.

If people believed that there is "life after death" then they would be less inclined to believe that sin is a problem and that they need to care about their salvation because after all if they die they won't really die or be judged.

I am talking about the Near Death Experience stories regarding going places and seeing things and being told things etc.

If you pay attention you will begin to notice a pattern, a theme, in almost all cases of NDEs and even UFO/Alien encounters. The power of Jesus Christ to save is denied or ignored, the false importance of trying to do enough good to be saved (which is impossible), the verification of occult things and propping up of their supposed power (which leads to more deception) etc. etc. etc. ALL fly in the face of the Truth of the Holy Bible.

There is a WAR going on right now everywhere and it's a spiritual war for the souls of men and Satan wants to destroy them in spite against God.

Typing it does not make it so

OMG.
How can you religi-tards have such a simplistic idea of what GOD is!

Do the words OMNIPOTENT OR OMNIPRESENT mean anything to you????

I'll try to keep this simple for the bibletards......

What you call God, or what other religions call by whatever name......is not some judgemental douche up in the clouds.

God is.....Reality itself. What else can an all powerful being be??? This includes everyone and everything in every dimension and time throughout the multiverse. It is all ONE. You are as much God as any other person/thing. The only difference is how much you "remember".

If "God" created all of "this" and was omnipotent- that means he knew EXACTLY what "sin & perversion" all of his creations would do long before he even made them, RIGHT???

And don't bring up that "free will" crap either......an all knowing God would KNOW the "future" and what will happen. Or is your God not all powerful??? HMMM????

SOooooooo----- all the "sin & perversion" was in God's mind to begin with. (He's a big perv, really)

Do you REALLY believe God would have children KNOWING IN ADVANCE he was going to fry them for being sinners????

If so then that's one fucked up God I want no part of thank you.

Personally I have had a full blown spiritual awakening and have seen and felt the awe and glory of what GOD really is. And it is something so far beyond the bible that you would pee yourself if you even caught a glimpse.

Get over yourself and your self righteous religion bent on Hell and War and Killing everyone that doesn't worship your precious bible!!!!!

You really think that's what God wants??? Hahahahaha.....

Maybe YOU"RE the omnipotent one and not God?

Yea I doubt that.

Anyway love to All and Happy New Year!

Maybe your resolution should be to burn that EVIL FUCKING BOOK and try to discover God within yourself where it has been all along.

Namaste.

It is true that NDE's are a lie from satan and more often than not hallucinations as the brain loses oxygen. This is a fact.

It is NOT true that you can just continue to live in sin claiming you have faith in Jesus and be saved. The TRUE saved will work in harmony with the will of God to RENOUNCE all sin!

It is true that at death the person does NOT go straight to heaven or hell. Infact, hell isn't even burning yet, it burns at the very end to DESTROY sin and sinners. There are 2 resurrections of the dead the Bible says, the ressurection of life (for the saved when Jesus comes) and the resurrection of damnation (for the lost to be destroyed in hell fire)

Anything else that is taught is straight from paganism and false theology, but that's not a surprise either because the Bible makes it clear there would be MANY deceptions in the last days and especially in the churches who are following in the footsteps of spiritual Babylon... and that's exactly what it is.

No they arent because it has nothing to do with god/religion/satan. OBEs were here from the beginning of everything. the astral plane was here since the beginning. christianity has only been here since the stupid humans that thought of it thought of it

op, you're a prime example that common sense is not common.