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Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 01:57 PM
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Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
[link to abcnews.go.com]

It goes like this: Should Congress fail to extend the U.S. debt limit — reached again on Dec. 31 — the president could ask the Treasury to begin printing trillion dollar coins (in a process explained mostly seriously by Jim Pethokoukis on his American Enterprise Institute blog), a number of which could then be put toward fulfilling debt obligations in the event new legislation stalls in Congress.

While there are laws in place to regulate how much paper, gold, silver or copper currency can be circulated by the government, there is nothing so clearly stated when it comes to platinum. That door open, the Treasury could have the U.S. Mint melt and mold a few trillion dollars of it, then ship the goods over to the Federal Reserve for safekeeping until the time comes to pay the bills.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/04/2013 01:58 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
perhaps "melting" isn't the proper word for the title but you get the idea
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/04/2013 01:58 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
While there are laws in place to regulate how much paper, gold, silver or copper currency can be circulated by the government, there is nothing so clearly stated when it comes to platinum. That door open, the Treasury could have the U.S. Mint melt and mold a few trillion dollars of it, then ship the goods over to the Federal Reserve for safekeeping until the time comes to pay the bills.

that's sneaky
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/04/2013 02:03 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
oh come now... no comments?
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 02:04 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
I read this earlier and I don't get it. At todays market prices that coin would weigh over 11,000 tons. Does that mean treasury would have to create a book value of platinum for $1 trillion an ounce? What would happen to the market value of platinum, or gold, or silver?

Why don't they just take the amount of gold supposedly in US reserves and revalue gold on their books to cover the $16 or so trillion dollars debt?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/04/2013 02:06 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
I read this earlier and I don't get it. At todays market prices that coin would weigh over 11,000 tons. Does that mean treasury would have to create a book value of platinum for $1 trillion an ounce? What would happen to the market value of platinum, or gold, or silver?

Why don't they just take the amount of gold supposedly in US reserves and revalue gold on their books to cover the $16 or so trillion dollars debt?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


treasury would have to create a book value of platinum for $1 trillion an ounce?

yes
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/04/2013 02:07 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
I read this earlier and I don't get it. At todays market prices that coin would weigh over 11,000 tons. Does that mean treasury would have to create a book value of platinum for $1 trillion an ounce? What would happen to the market value of platinum, or gold, or silver?

Why don't they just take the amount of gold supposedly in US reserves and revalue gold on their books to cover the $16 or so trillion dollars debt?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


cuz the fed doesnt have the gold. china and russia do. if they inflate the value, they make our enemies more rich.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 02:08 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
Obama melts them and takes them with him and Michelle to Hawaii
SmuRidley

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01/04/2013 02:10 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
[link to www.businessinsider.com]


Snip.
The premise of the idea is this: Although the Treasury can't just create money out of thin air to pay its bills, there is a technicality in the law that says the Treasury has special discretion to create platinum coins of any denomination, and the thinking is that Tim Geithner could make the coin and walk it over to the Federal Reserve and deposit it in the Treasury's bank account.


the law:
[link to www.law.cornell.edu]
The term "derp" was invented by the creators of Southpark.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 02:14 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
I read this earlier and I don't get it. At todays market prices that coin would weigh over 11,000 tons. Does that mean treasury would have to create a book value of platinum for $1 trillion an ounce? What would happen to the market value of platinum, or gold, or silver?

Why don't they just take the amount of gold supposedly in US reserves and revalue gold on their books to cover the $16 or so trillion dollars debt?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


cuz the fed doesnt have the gold. china and russia do. if they inflate the value, they make our enemies more rich.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1390471



Ok but you didn't answer my other question, which was what happens to the market value of platinum, gold and silver? If they book value platinum at $1 trillion per ounce, then the market value would increase to that if not more along with gold and silver making China, India, Saudi Arabia and Russia very very rich.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/04/2013 02:24 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
I read this earlier and I don't get it. At todays market prices that coin would weigh over 11,000 tons. Does that mean treasury would have to create a book value of platinum for $1 trillion an ounce? What would happen to the market value of platinum, or gold, or silver?

Why don't they just take the amount of gold supposedly in US reserves and revalue gold on their books to cover the $16 or so trillion dollars debt?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


cuz the fed doesnt have the gold. china and russia do. if they inflate the value, they make our enemies more rich.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1390471



Ok but you didn't answer my other question, which was what happens to the market value of platinum, gold and silver? If they book value platinum at $1 trillion per ounce, then the market value would increase to that if not more along with gold and silver making China, India, Saudi Arabia and Russia very very rich.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


i guess. i dont know. i'm not smart enough to understand this shit. i just know it isnt good.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/04/2013 02:25 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
[link to www.businessinsider.com]


Snip.
The premise of the idea is this: Although the Treasury can't just create money out of thin air to pay its bills, there is a technicality in the law that says the Treasury has special discretion to create platinum coins of any denomination, and the thinking is that Tim Geithner could make the coin and walk it over to the Federal Reserve and deposit it in the Treasury's bank account.


the law:
[link to www.law.cornell.edu]
 Quoting: SmuRidley


Geithner is due to quit his job before the debt ceiling date. i think he announced it.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 02:30 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
Wow when will people wake up and see that our current administration is destroying this country at every level.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 02:32 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
I read this earlier and I don't get it. At todays market prices that coin would weigh over 11,000 tons. Does that mean treasury would have to create a book value of platinum for $1 trillion an ounce? What would happen to the market value of platinum, or gold, or silver?

Why don't they just take the amount of gold supposedly in US reserves and revalue gold on their books to cover the $16 or so trillion dollars debt?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


cuz the fed doesnt have the gold. china and russia do. if they inflate the value, they make our enemies more rich.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1390471



Ok but you didn't answer my other question, which was what happens to the market value of platinum, gold and silver? If they book value platinum at $1 trillion per ounce, then the market value would increase to that if not more along with gold and silver making China, India, Saudi Arabia and Russia very very rich.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


i guess. i dont know. i'm not smart enough to understand this shit. i just know it isnt good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1390471


Fair enough, I don't have the answers I'm just learning on the fly.

Here, read this on the same topic:

[link to www.zerohedge.com]
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/04/2013 02:39 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
...


cuz the fed doesnt have the gold. china and russia do. if they inflate the value, they make our enemies more rich.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1390471



Ok but you didn't answer my other question, which was what happens to the market value of platinum, gold and silver? If they book value platinum at $1 trillion per ounce, then the market value would increase to that if not more along with gold and silver making China, India, Saudi Arabia and Russia very very rich.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


i guess. i dont know. i'm not smart enough to understand this shit. i just know it isnt good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1390471


Fair enough, I don't have the answers I'm just learning on the fly.

Here, read this on the same topic:

[link to www.zerohedge.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


good article, thanks. makes my head hurt.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
01/04/2013 02:47 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
...



Ok but you didn't answer my other question, which was what happens to the market value of platinum, gold and silver? If they book value platinum at $1 trillion per ounce, then the market value would increase to that if not more along with gold and silver making China, India, Saudi Arabia and Russia very very rich.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


i guess. i dont know. i'm not smart enough to understand this shit. i just know it isnt good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1390471


Fair enough, I don't have the answers I'm just learning on the fly.

Here, read this on the same topic:

[link to www.zerohedge.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


good article, thanks. makes my head hurt.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1390471


What makes your head hurt even worse is knowing that the current book value for gold by our treasury department is about $48 per ounce, while it sells in paper on the market for $1,650 (today) and a getting a real coin in hand will cost you over $1,725 (1 ounce).

Now why would our government who holds some 8,000 tons of gold in reserve intentionally understate the value of their own reserves?

.

scratching
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 02:49 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
Re price of platimun going up to 1 trillion per ounce.
I don't think so.
They just stamp the denomination on the coin. It won't weigh more than a few ounces.
They make it up.
But I guess we all have to go along with this line of thinking - including other World markets.
?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/04/2013 02:52 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
Re price of platimun going up to 1 trillion per ounce.
I don't think so.
They just stamp the denomination on the coin. It won't weigh more than a few ounces.
They make it up.
But I guess we all have to go along with this line of thinking - including other World markets.
?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26165384


would that make platinum wedding bands worth billions?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 961432
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01/04/2013 02:55 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
Re price of platimun going up to 1 trillion per ounce.
I don't think so.
They just stamp the denomination on the coin. It won't weigh more than a few ounces.
They make it up.
But I guess we all have to go along with this line of thinking - including other World markets.
?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26165384


Yah ok I get it now, its like that thread that appeared a year or more ago where the guy was saying insiders in Washington were thinking of switching legal tender back to minted coins.

The treasury is allowed to mint up a certain amount of coins every year, they are debt free money coined by the treasury. So, they mint up a $1 trillion tungsten covered "platinum" coin and claim it as an asset.

Well the public is pretty much brain dead anyway, it might work.

pennywise
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 03:00 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
Re price of platimun going up to 1 trillion per ounce.
I don't think so.
They just stamp the denomination on the coin. It won't weigh more than a few ounces.
They make it up.
But I guess we all have to go along with this line of thinking - including other World markets.
?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26165384


would that make platinum wedding bands worth billions?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1390471


No, for the same reason that having $100 paper bills doesn't make your office paper worth thousands. The coin would be worth a trillion dollars because that's what the fed say it's worth. The actual material is incidental.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 03:04 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
I wonder how big the coin would have to be just to get the text for $1,000,000,000,000 legibly on the face of the coin?

lmao
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 03:10 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
Come on thats ludicrous. They should just make them worth a billion each. :).
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 03:13 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
I would suggest a 1.5 percent transaction tax for the wall street gang and the stand down of the Army and Air Force since our Constitution forbids a standing Army.

The Navy and Marines can conscript whatever personnel and equipment from the Army or Air Force that provide mission capability the Navy doesn't provide.

What is left over can be part of the Civilian militia within their own states.

Here it is Article 1 Section 8:

...
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

Get rid of the department of education, states can do it.
Get ride of DHS, civilian militia can do it in each state.


The Constitution: [link to www.archives.gov]
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 03:14 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
Come on thats ludicrous. They should just make them worth a billion each. :).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30506611


Yah, I'm sure they can rustle up enough tungsten to print a thousand coins.
AlaskaLove

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01/04/2013 03:15 PM

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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
if i didn't read the articles I would have dismissed this as utter bullshit.

Frankly I am dumbstruck as to how in the face blatant "the system is an illusion" we can get people.

STOP THE MADNESS this reality is fake.
I love you.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 03:33 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
So basicly it's a marker, (an IOU), a token of value, backed by the Government (ohh yeah, that's you and me floks).

It extends the debt(because we print more money based on that marker) and the value of our currency goes down. In the past, countries have added a zero(s) to the denominations of bills because the cash is worthless.

I hope everyone sees what is going on. We the people (the owners of the Government)MUST cut back and stop spending beyond it's limits. The soon to be alternative will not be pretty or pleasant. We must all tell our representatives to wake up (all sides - everyone of them)and cut back on spending.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 03:57 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
NOT FOR CIRCULATION!!!

fix your stupid title, stupid
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 04:15 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
If the treasury minted a $1 trillion platinum coin, it would not send the value of platinum skyrocketing. It's the same as with our paper bills. There's no intrinsic value in dollars, yet some paper bills are valued higher than other paper bills. Likewise, the melt value and face value of the 1 oz platinum coin would be two different things. The face value of the 1 oz platinum coin would be $1 trillion but the melt value of the platinum coin would only be worth about $1,550.

Regardless, this is just another big warning sign, like the proposal to remove copper from our coinage, letting us know how fucked we are. Although, I did enjoy how they tried to spin this awful idea like it was brilliant epiphany someone had that will save the economy and tried to garner public support by asking "who will be on the face on the coins?" I'm sure there's plenty of idiots on FaceBook offering up all sorts of suggestions with the top one being BO.

If they were really smart, they'd have proposed to mint an infinity $ coin. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 04:27 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
If the treasury minted a $1 trillion platinum coin, it would not send the value of platinum skyrocketing. It's the same as with our paper bills. There's no intrinsic value in dollars, yet some paper bills are valued higher than other paper bills. Likewise, the melt value and face value of the 1 oz platinum coin would be two different things. The face value of the 1 oz platinum coin would be $1 trillion but the melt value of the platinum coin would only be worth about $1,550.

Regardless, this is just another big warning sign, like the proposal to remove copper from our coinage, letting us know how fucked we are. Although, I did enjoy how they tried to spin this awful idea like it was brilliant epiphany someone had that will save the economy and tried to garner public support by asking "who will be on the face on the coins?" I'm sure there's plenty of idiots on FaceBook offering up all sorts of suggestions with the top one being BO.

If they were really smart, they'd have proposed to mint an infinity $ coin. Yeah, that's the ticket.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1447583


LOL then we'd never be broke again. Of course the inverse would be that all other money's value approaches zero.
<<FOCUS>>
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01/04/2013 04:30 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
You know this country is in a shitload of trouble when they are trying this shit.
Anonymous Coward
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01/04/2013 04:36 PM
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Re: Obama could exploit loophole, avoid debt ceiling by melting "trillion dollar platinum coins" for circulation
So the FED gives us stupid paper and we give them hard assets?

Great plan!

NOT!

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