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Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero

 
Here for the moment
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01/05/2013 07:22 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
Illogical thus impossible. Atomic movement ceases at absolute zero. ........so would time?
Anonymous Coward
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01/05/2013 10:12 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
time would not stop at absolute zero, because while atomic motion stops, other processes remain such as the spin of subatomic particles, or the "movement" of electrons due to the fact that, while they don't actually orbit an atom, they have certain probabilities of appearing at given points, due to quantum mechanics.

even a mile away from an atom, an electron has a certain infinitesimally small probability of appearing for a very brief period. or on the other side of a lead wall. due to those mechanics, no barrier is truly impenetrable. thus, the electrons are going to "move" no matter what.

the implications of that are very, very interesting.

1) say one molecule, at absolute zero, a crystalline state of zero-point energy, is all the universe consists of. all motion stops except the spin of subatomic particles, and quantum fluctuations ("movement") of electrons. yet nothing affects them and they affect nothing- practically speaking, it's an absolutely perfect top that spins forever and ever and ever. so, in that universe, time exists- yet has zero effect whatsoever. what good is it? doesn't that mean time ceases to exist? yet it does exist.

2) doesn't the fact that many such molecules interact together in a relative time frame, mean that the entire universe should by definition be considered one big molecule? because of time?
oLOVEz

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01/05/2013 10:21 PM

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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
so i guess you can travel faster than the speed of light too.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14093481


Godspeed!!
Anonymous Coward
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01/05/2013 10:22 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
they were using my ex-wife's pussy
d1k

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01/05/2013 10:28 PM

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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
These are the kinds of threads I love GLP for. They are becoming few and far between lately but thankfully still coming.

Thanks man.
yeswecan

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01/05/2013 10:48 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
Illogical thus impossible. Atomic movement ceases at absolute zero. ........so would time?
 Quoting: Here for the moment 14554879


YES, this.
Time stops at 0 K
So below that time goes backwards?
resist we much!
Anonymous Coward
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01/05/2013 11:04 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
so i guess you can travel faster than the speed of light too.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14093481


they already have
Anonymous Coward
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01/05/2013 11:08 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
time is a function of an increase of entropy. entropy can be mechanically reversed (decreased), but no mechanism can make entropy reverse spontaneously. therefore time will not go backwards.

if you could make a machine that creates a field in the boundaries of which entropy spontaneously decreased, it would still not be a "time machine" because the paths by which the contents had entropied would not necessarily (and won't) follow the paths by which they had progressed. entropy is random forwards and backwards. therefore a time machine is impossible. the objects in the field would appear to follow "forward time" though it would be interesting to watch what they do. ice spontaneously freezes instead of thaws, gravity repulses instead of attracts, a flame could turn itself into a lump of flammable material, light condenses into glowing objects which turn into dark lumps and electricity.

but it would not be a time machine.
yeswecan

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01/05/2013 11:43 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
time is a function of an increase of entropy. entropy can be mechanically reversed (decreased), but no mechanism can make entropy reverse spontaneously. therefore time will not go backwards.

if you could make a machine that creates a field in the boundaries of which entropy spontaneously decreased, it would still not be a "time machine" because the paths by which the contents had entropied would not necessarily (and won't) follow the paths by which they had progressed. entropy is random forwards and backwards. therefore a time machine is impossible. the objects in the field would appear to follow "forward time" though it would be interesting to watch what they do. ice spontaneously freezes instead of thaws, gravity repulses instead of attracts, a flame could turn itself into a lump of flammable material, light condenses into glowing objects which turn into dark lumps and electricity.

but it would not be a time machine.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31593798


So therefore, there is nothing below absolute zero?
resist we much!
Anonymous Coward
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01/06/2013 05:38 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
that's what I would say.

also, entropy is a thermodynamic process. when you examine the subject of "entropy" and its effects, such as temperatures near absolute zero, degrees of entropy, energy states, etc. you see that entropy IS thermodynamics.

the rest of thermodynamics we think of, such as what makes refrigerators work, ice thaw, heat of combustion, etc. is entropy on a gross scale.

it's all entropy.

but "time" is a function of entropy. time is driven by entropy. entropy makes time happen. without entropy changing, there is no time progressing.

we can conclude that when the total entropy of a system is zero, there is no time.

but when "total entropy"=zero, "temperature"="absolute zero", and there is no time. therefore it is a barrier. it is impossible to go lower than absolute zero because time has stopped- the same mechanism that limits the speed of light.

what are the implications? what more can be deduced?




bang those rocks together!
Anonymous Coward
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01/06/2013 05:48 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
they were using my ex-wife's pussy
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30474188


cruise
mrmuffins69 (OP)
ban all the things

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01/06/2013 05:52 PM

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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
they were using my ex-wife's pussy
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30474188


chuckle
JBG
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01/06/2013 05:56 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
As I am reading this it is all just sensationalist reporting - what they have done is to take an unstable system of atoms with respect to their internal magnetic spin states, cool it to absolute zero - then energy pumped into it goes into normalising instead of increasing kinetic energy - and hence they maintain it must previously have had a negative temperature - which is just semantics!
Anonymous Coward
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01/06/2013 06:07 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
90% of society does not realize how huge this is!
Anonymous Coward
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01/06/2013 06:11 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
Good explanation of the discovery is here on the Max Planck Institute's website:

[link to www.mpq.mpg.de]
Anonymous Coward
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01/06/2013 06:14 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
So Walt Disney really is in suspended animation?
Idol1
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01/06/2013 06:15 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
How is this possible?

All matter and particles stop moving at absolute zero. No friction or energy is transmitted. There is no heat whatsoever.

How can you have anti-heat?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14093935




Exactly what I was wondering...

At absolute zero everything "stops" in the molecular level...

How you go beyond "everything stopped"???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31562625


I don't think it does. I believe there is still some degree of quantum "jitter".
Anonymous Coward
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01/06/2013 06:22 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
Good explanation of the discovery is here on the Max Planck Institute's website:

[link to www.mpq.mpg.de]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31574294


From the article:

"Matter at negative absolute temperature leads to a whole bunch of astounding consequences: With its help, one could create heat engines with an efficiency above 100%. This does not mean that the law of energy conservation is violated. Instead, the machine could not only absorb energy from the hotter substance, but, in contrast to the usual case, also from the colder. The work performed by the engine could therefore be larger than the energy taken from the hotter substance alone."

Bye, Bye Second Law of Thermodynamics!
Children of the Atom

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01/06/2013 06:24 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
Holy fuck sticks this is BIG news!

Bigger than that shitty higgs boson god particle!

"This unusual advance could lead to new engines that could technically be more than 100 percent efficient,"


Read more: [link to www.foxnews.com]

spock
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31555492


More than 100% efficient?

If i fill up 100% of a glass with milk, what happens beyond 100%?

You guys are dumb asses sometimes on here and the God Particle is amazing.

Last Edited by Children of the Atom on 01/06/2013 06:25 PM
Anonymous Coward
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01/07/2013 05:18 AM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
bump

This is really big news!
Anonymous Coward
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01/07/2013 05:41 AM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
bollocks..
and who is that knobhead going on about entropy being time??. Fuk off, idiot..
CripplingLies

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01/07/2013 06:23 AM

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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
How is this possible?

All matter and particles stop moving at absolute zero. No friction or energy is transmitted. There is no heat whatsoever.

How can you have anti-heat?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14093935


No respectable man of science should be skeptical. Science is correcting itself over and over again through the years. Acting like this, is the same way people use to act in the dark and mediaval ages.
Remember, science is not absolute. There will always be something else to be discovered, even in those things we have as an absolute truth, this one is a good example. Do not relay your lives in science.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
Contrarian's Contrarian

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01/07/2013 06:33 AM

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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
Once again quantum physics makes no sense to me what so ever.
At the quantum scale the universe is a really bizarre place.

No respectable man of science should be skeptical.
 Quoting: CripplingLies

Scepticism is the heart of science.
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Anonymous Coward
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01/07/2013 06:36 AM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
All you guys are bugging over time and gravity.

NEITHER ARE REAL.

Time is nothing more than perception. We as conscious human beings created the concept to grasp the idea of movement through space. The rate of movement is normally described as acceleration. All particles in front of us are in a state of acceleration in some direction. Nothing is at an absolute standstill in the universe. All time is good for is determining where to be in relation to another event at a certain time. Time cannot stop, you cannot travel to another point in it, and time never began or ended, and all of this is because it does not exist. We are in a state of ever changing present. This second never ended, things just moved since I last perceived them. Consciousness plays a part in perceived time, as old sayings go "Time flies when you're having fun."

As for gravity, I've postulated for a very very long time, as have a lot of others, that it is merely a side effect of electromagnetism around localized "heavy objects". As the force cannot be measured directly or detected, as a force it does not exist.

All this discovery really proves to those that really understand the implications is that Space Time Curvature has nothing to do with gravity, and it has more to do with energetic states. And since that is the PROVEN case here, this means that the whole concept of space time curvature is now irrelevant, as the only reason it existed was to give a reason for the action of gravity. It can be said that this disproves curvature of the universal medium, thus throwing out Relativity in general.

This also validates this theory, making it potentially the new "Top Dog" in the Physics community:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

That theory is sort of a re-imagining of the Classical Aether Theories that Tesla, Edison, Newton, Faraday, Kelvin, and Lorentz all based the entirety of their works on.

It took 100 years, but science got back on track. Our greatest deceased thinkers are overjoyed at this point in their graves.

TL;DR
Einstein was wrong, Tesla was right. Free-energy proponents are vindicated, and there are no absolutes.

It's 2013, where the fuck is my flying car?
oLOVEz

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01/07/2013 09:09 AM

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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
Holy fuck sticks this is BIG news!

Bigger than that shitty higgs boson god particle!

"This unusual advance could lead to new engines that could technically be more than 100 percent efficient,"


Read more: [link to www.foxnews.com]

spock
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31555492


More than 100% efficient?

If i fill up 100% of a glass with milk, what happens beyond 100%?

You guys are dumb asses sometimes on here and the God Particle is amazing.
 Quoting: Children of the Atom


Wouldn't anything over 100% be stored in a reserve like a battery.

Like how if you have a solar farm, any 'extra' energy left over from your uses can be sold to the power company.
Anonymous Coward
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01/07/2013 12:04 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
*BUMP* b/c people don't understand the magnitude of this yet!
Truthache
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01/07/2013 12:13 PM

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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
I'd say that's not so very ABSOLUTE.

hmm
in warm pursuit...
Anonymous Coward
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01/07/2013 12:30 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
Holy fuck sticks this is BIG news!

Bigger than that shitty higgs boson god particle!

"This unusual advance could lead to new engines that could technically be more than 100 percent efficient,"


Read more: [link to www.foxnews.com]

spock
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31555492


clappa
Anonymous Coward
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01/07/2013 12:46 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
Newly behaving atoms

Anonymous Coward
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01/07/2013 12:49 PM
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Re: Scientists Reach A Temperature Lower Than Absolute Zero
If they would be Jews, they would get the Nobel price.

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