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So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 691183
Greece
01/09/2013 04:07 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Greek govt government seems to have decided to submit coordinates for the outer limits of the Greek continental shelf to the United Nations in the first months of 2013. On June 9th 1995, the Turkish parliament officially declared that unilateral action by Greece would constitute a casus belli.
[link to translate.google.gr]
[link to www.tovima.gr]

Davutoglu Warns Greece Against Oil exploration In The Aegean
[link to www.trtarabic.com]


Turkey closely following any Greek maneuver in Aegean disputes

[link to www.todayszaman.com]

16 islands snatched by Greece due to Turkey's negligence, experts claim. In the Aegean and the Mediterranean, there are 152 islands and islets of which the ownership is controversial

[link to www.todayszaman.com]

Norwegian company PGS is already conducting offshore seismic tests in Greek seas. License round is expected to take place in 2014.

[link to www.pgs.com]

More about the Aegean dispute
[link to en.wikipedia.org]


Obvious trap is obvious.

damned
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


where is Alexander the Great when you need him?
 Quoting: Dr.Ricks

he is here, waiting ;)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31825352
Germany
01/09/2013 04:22 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
turkey could be accepted into eu, then its all ours!

seriously, mankind needs a new way of dealing with land and resources. when national states are ruled by global corporations, banks, financial elite and fanatic religious leaders, national states are obsolete.
this is neofeudalism, greek and turkish kings disputing over some land, while the majority of their slaves just want to live in peace, and do not care, which king it belongs to. there is only one way!
Gregor Samsa

User ID: 31519366
Turkey
01/09/2013 08:05 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
turkey could be accepted into eu, then its all ours!

seriously, mankind needs a new way of dealing with land and resources. when national states are ruled by global corporations, banks, financial elite and fanatic religious leaders, national states are obsolete.
this is neofeudalism, greek and turkish kings disputing over some land, while the majority of their slaves just want to live in peace, and do not care, which king it belongs to. there is only one way!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31825352


We are slaves, we have always been slaves. Who benefits when there is hostility between Greece and Turkey, when the tension rises? This is a battle that we can never win until we understand.
To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.
G.I. Gurdjieff
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 31610536
Greece
01/09/2013 08:53 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Greek nationalists attack vehicle of Turkish consul general

[link to www.todayszaman.com]
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


Wow, thanks for info GS, i've been expecting this for some time to be totally honest here.

Why haven't the Greeks dumped the Turkish occupiers from Northern Cyprus yet? Turkish 'experts' accuse Greece of illegally snatching islands while they are occupying a portion of a fucking country!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31810718


ahh the sweet ignorance, occupiers, pffft
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


Off course there is occupation in Cyprus man, from the 260 thousand supposedly T/C in the island the 160 thousand of them are illegal settlers from mainland Turkey with no connection to the land whatsoever while 200 thousand G/C refugees can't go back to their homes and lands. You guys always bitch about Palestine and all since your govt and press is pushing this agenda a lot and i'm really surprised that at the same time you see something else here other than an illegal occupation, even Palestine has been recognized by 130+ states man while the mafia pseudo-state in Cyprus by none except Turkey, not even by your best allies, seems hypocritical if you ask me. I won't deny that the Greek side didn't make fatal mistakes on this story too, but for a minority of 18% on the island Turkish state invaded not once but twice in a month and occupies 36% of it, come on.

Dunno what 1570 Ottomans have to do with Cyprus bro, nothing Ottoman or Turkish about the island besides the minority and it has a continuous Greek population since 1500 BC, Ottomans conquered Syria, Israel and all of the Balkans too, does this mean that these places are or have something Turkish in them or that the Turkey has a claim on these lands? There won't be any solution on here if Turkey and Turkish people continue to see this with the imperial Ottoman view, we both need to leave the community alone to unify and prosper while both British and Turkish troops need to go away. Greek state has steered away left the G/C some space to do their thing, would be great if the Turkish state done the same.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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Greece
01/09/2013 08:53 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
I think we have a problem on our hands.

hiding

Great Post Insert hf
 Quoting: Tigershield


Thanks Tigershield. hf
Albanian
User ID: 12582427
Canada
01/09/2013 09:06 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
^^ Rumored,thats nice. He is full blooded albanian, everyone knows this. Look at his past history concerning Albanian integration through alot of Turkish support, especially military, but the Albanian government is too busy trying to get in the EU........ One thing for sure though, the relationship between turks and albs extends hundreds of years, its an excellent relationship
 Quoting: Albanian 12582427


That picture might have taken from a visit or might be a look alike.I have heard about his albanian roots too.As a person i like him as he is open minded and vaules human rights.

Anyway, of course we have excellent relations with albanians.We love Albanians (Arnavut in Turkish) .There are many people with Albanian descent here and they are beautiful people .In Ottoman Empire there were many succesful albanian officials and commanders.Even mothers of some sultans were albanian.
 Quoting: Anatolian 31776376

Abdurrahman Abdi the Albanian

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

He was the Beylerbey of Budin...Beylerbey is equivalent of duke.He tried to defend Budim against a big Crusade of 90.000 soldiers with his near 7.000 soldiers...Eventually he was killed in the fight.Nontheless he was a brave man
 Quoting: Anatolian 31776376
thanks for the info bro, he sounds like a brave man, this is how the Ottoman Empire survived , they showed the enemy that fear is non existent
Gregor Samsa

User ID: 31519366
Turkey
01/09/2013 09:39 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Why haven't the Greeks dumped the Turkish occupiers from Northern Cyprus yet? Turkish 'experts' accuse Greece of illegally snatching islands while they are occupying a portion of a fucking country!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31810718


ahh the sweet ignorance, occupiers, pffft
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername:MV8yMTA0NzE4XzM1NTEyNTMwX0Q0OEUxN


Off course there is occupation in Cyprus man, from the 260 thousand supposedly T/C in the island the 160 thousand of them are illegal settlers from mainland Turkey with no connection to the land whatsoever while 200 thousand G/C refugees can't go back to their homes and lands. You guys always bitch about Palestine and all since your govt and press is pushing this agenda a lot and i'm really surprised that at the same time you see something else here other than an illegal occupation, even Palestine has been recognized by 130+ states man while the mafia pseudo-state in Cyprus by none except Turkey, not even by your best allies, seems hypocritical if you ask me. I won't deny that the Greek side didn't make fatal mistakes on this story too, but for a minority of 18% on the island Turkish state invaded not once but twice in a month and occupies 36% of it, come on.

Dunno what 1570 Ottomans have to do with Cyprus bro, nothing Ottoman or Turkish about the island besides the minority and it has a continuous Greek population since 1500 BC, Ottomans conquered Syria, Israel and all of the Balkans too, does this mean that these places are or have something Turkish in them or that the Turkey has a claim on these lands? There won't be any solution on here if Turkey and Turkish people continue to see this with the imperial Ottoman view, we both need to leave the community alone to unify and prosper while both British and Turkish troops need to go away. Greek state has steered away left the G/C some space to do their thing, would be great if the Turkish state done the same.


Hey mate, you are right about the settlers from mainland Turkey there, but your numbers are wrong methinks. According to your numbers there are only 100k Turkish Cypriots, but even in 1960 there were 104.000 T/C , 50 years ago???. And this number is the result of an island-wide census man:

[link to www.cyprusdirectory.net]

I gave the 1570 reference because of the reference of the Turkish Cypriots, that a some proportion of the Turkish population were living there and didn't settle there after 1974 (and yes many did). I think you know my point of view even a little bit so i don't think you mean when you ask "Ottomans conquered Syria, Israel and all of the Balkans too, does this mean that these places are or have something Turkish in them or that the Turkey has a claim on these lands?" tounge

Believe me (or not) only a few Turkish people have imperial Ottoman view, i think even most of the nationalists have not such a dream.

Yeah i am not happy either with the Turkish troops there, but you know what happened there in 1970's before they get there, don't you?
To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.
G.I. Gurdjieff
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 31610536
Greece
01/09/2013 09:56 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Hey mate, you are right about the settlers from mainland Turkey there, but your numbers are wrong methinks. According to your numbers there are only 100k Turkish Cypriots, but even in 1960 there were 104.000 T/C , 50 years ago???. And this number is the result of an island-wide census man:

[link to www.cyprusdirectory.net]

I gave the 1570 reference because of the reference of the Turkish Cypriots, that a some proportion of the Turkish population were living there and didn't settle there after 1974 (and yes many did). I think you know my point of view even a little bit so i don't think you mean when you ask "Ottomans conquered Syria, Israel and all of the Balkans too, does this mean that these places are or have something Turkish in them or that the Turkey has a claim on these lands?" tounge

Believe me (or not) only a few Turkish people have imperial Ottoman view, i think even most of the nationalists have not such a dream.

Yeah i am not happy either with the Turkish troops there, but you know what happened there in 1970's before they get there, don't you?
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


I know you're cool mate, hehe. :)
Before British got in the game in the 50's the 2 communities were living peacefully. I just can't understand how Turkey wants this dispute to end if they don't even recognize Republic of Cyprus as a state in the first place, only country in the world that still doesn't i think. And they threaten Cyprus with further military action every other month. How does this help? The island has no army for it's protection ffs.
Gregor Samsa

User ID: 31519366
Turkey
01/09/2013 10:16 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Hey mate, you are right about the settlers from mainland Turkey there, but your numbers are wrong methinks. According to your numbers there are only 100k Turkish Cypriots, but even in 1960 there were 104.000 T/C , 50 years ago???. And this number is the result of an island-wide census man:

[link to www.cyprusdirectory.net]

I gave the 1570 reference because of the reference of the Turkish Cypriots, that a some proportion of the Turkish population were living there and didn't settle there after 1974 (and yes many did). I think you know my point of view even a little bit so i don't think you mean when you ask "Ottomans conquered Syria, Israel and all of the Balkans too, does this mean that these places are or have something Turkish in them or that the Turkey has a claim on these lands?" tounge

Believe me (or not) only a few Turkish people have imperial Ottoman view, i think even most of the nationalists have not such a dream.

Yeah i am not happy either with the Turkish troops there, but you know what happened there in 1970's before they get there, don't you?
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


I know you're cool mate, hehe. :)
Before British got in the game in the 50's the 2 communities were living peacefully. I just can't understand how Turkey wants this dispute to end if they don't even recognize Republic of Cyprus as a state in the first place, only country in the world that still doesn't i think. And they threaten Cyprus with further military action every other month. How does this help? The island has no army for it's protection ffs.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


I want to repeat that i don't support any military and imperialistic action, but were there any Turkish soldier before 1963 when the violence against the Turkish Cypriots started ?

"Greek Cypriot fanatics appear bent on a policy of genocide." Washington Post ,17 February 1964

"The Greek Cypriot Minister of the Interior admitted that he had controlled the attack in Limassol himself."
The Guardian 26th February 1964

From a report from Michael Stephen. Michael Stephen is Master of Laws (LL M) of the Inner Temple Barrister and a former member of
the British House of Commons. He is also member of the Royal Institute of International Affairs,
Chatham House and author of The Cyprus Question, London, 1997.

The crux of the current Cyprus problem is not the failure of Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots to
reach agreement, but the internationalisation of the issue, and the failure of the international
community to recognise the enormity of the injustice done for nearly forty years to the Turkish
Cypriots by the Greek Cypriots and by the international community itself. The failure of the
international community to acknowledge the reality of Cyprus and to refrain from seeking to impose
its own framework for a solution, starting from the fiction that there is today only one state and only
one government in the island, has made a Cyprus settlement impossible. Until this international
attitude changes, no amount of talks or diplomatic pressure will succeed or will deserve to succeed

The fundamental cause of the problem is that the international community has been, and still is,
willing to overlook a systematic attempt at genocide by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 and again in
1964, 1967 and 1974, and the destruction by the Greek Cypriots in 1963 of the republic which was
established by the 1960 Constitution and guaranteed by international Treaty. They have also been
willing to overlook the fact that for 11 years after 1963 the Turkish Cypriots were driven from their
homes, farms and businesses, and squeezed into defended enclaves comprising only three percent of
the island, deprived of the basic necessities of modern life - all this despite the existence of a solemn
international guarantee and UN troops actually in Cyprus since 1964.


[link to sam.gov.tr] (pdf)
To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.
G.I. Gurdjieff
Gregor Samsa

User ID: 31519366
Turkey
01/09/2013 10:21 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
I forgot to add, after the clashes began many Greek Cypriots died also, according to wiki :

"Between 21Ė31 December 1963 up to 133 Turkish Cypriots were killed by Greek Cypriots.364 Turkish Cypriots and 174 Greek Cypriots were killed in the next years. 18667 Turkish Cypriots from 103 different villages abandoned their homes"

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.
G.I. Gurdjieff
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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01/10/2013 06:02 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
I forgot to add, after the clashes began many Greek Cypriots died also, according to wiki :

"Between 21Ė31 December 1963 up to 133 Turkish Cypriots were killed by Greek Cypriots.364 Turkish Cypriots and 174 Greek Cypriots were killed in the next years. 18667 Turkish Cypriots from 103 different villages abandoned their homes"

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


Off course Greek Cypriots were killed too man, the correct historical term for the pre-invasion events in Cyprus is "inter-communal or sectarian violence/conflict" and off course not the propagandistic Turkish govt line of 'genocide' or attempted genocide since both sides were involved in atrocities against each other.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

I completely oppose and fully condemn the murder of 500 people but genocide? For realz? No offense bro but i wouldn't trust fascist Turkish govt to tell me what time is it, not to advocate the definition of the term genocide with .gov link. tounge And that's without counting Turkey's true genocidal past that propagandistic govt line says that "nope, no genocide of 4+ million christians took place here lads, in fact it was Armenian gangs that killed millions of Turks" lol, and this is the propaganda that the average brainwashed ignorant in Turkey still patriotically defends. Not that they weren't indeed Armenian gangs during Turkish war of independence but gimme a break. :)

Dunno what the Turkish state tried or is trying to paint this to their citizens when at the end of the 20-year atrocities far more G/C's are still missing or have been killed than T/C's and Turks. 2000-3000 is only the number of still missing persons of all ages that were executed in mass and buried in mass graves all over the island and mainland Anatolia and Turkey still doesn't open the records to give their families a closure on this issue. Even the G/C's refugees are 10 times the number of T/C's, how can you guys claim anything close to genocide here is really beyond me. And it's true that the are more illegal mainland Turks than T/C's in the island, that was the plan all along since the 50's, sorry but i won't accept pseudo-state census, many T/C's don't like this abomination either, they're more of them in Britain than in Cyprus, more and more of them are discovering the real events and protesting against them. And that .gov link still isn't a proper answer to why Turkey is still the only country in the world that doesn't recognize Cyprus as a state and threatens war every other full-moon when there isn't really any threat for the community there anymore since Cyprus is in the EU now and wouldn't go full murdering retard now would it? Turkish state achieved the apartheid that so desperately wanted i honestly can't see how more war threats against an EU sovereign state can help the situation here and then Turkey bitching about not being an EU member at the same time. Is turkish govt playing a joke on the whole planet here or what? blink

My point is that big parts of the truth regarding the real events in Cyprus came or still coming to the surface here in Greece and Cyprus, i don't expect the same thing to happen in Turkey anytime soon coz as Anatolian said they've invested too much on the pseudo-state and also because the press is totally govt controlled there, in fact Turkey ranks in the 140th position between 179 countries regarding press freedom and i'm not joking here, look it up. But i'd expect from some Turks to look for the hidden from them side of this story besides the one given to them by their govt, it's not like that they haven't lied and massively deceived you in the past now is it? No one here in Greece still defends the actions of EOKA and the CIA junta, both Greeks and G/C have admitted and understood their past mistakes and most of them now can see how both communities have been played into this, can't see the reason why the average Turk who want this to end peacefully still has to defend their govt line, actions and an illegal imperialistic occupation. :(

Britain controlled and still can control the whole ME with their presence in Cyprus, they offered the island to Greece during ww1 for Greece to side with the allies but the then Greek king declined coz he didn't want war, which was a retarded thing to do in hindsight since at the end Greece was dragged in ww1 anyways. British colonial rule was oppressive with riots against them since the 30's, 8800 documents from 37 former colonies were recently declassified and reveal that G/C and EOKA members that at that time were targeting only the British colonial authorities, were killed and tortured in British camps, in fact at least 12 G/C have taken Britain to court for these actions this year. CIA documents just revealed this year here in Greece show how they decided to put Karamanlis as a PM in 1955 under the condition to promote their agenda in the Cypriot issue, the only thing that Karamanlis asked in return was that whatever was about to be done at least should be done with "honor" and that he wouldn't been painted out as traitor by history. Britain saw that she couldn't handle the rebellion against their rule and decided to bring Turkey in the game by conscripting T/C's in their colonial police force. That was a key and completely retarded development because as a result one T/C colonial police officer was killed in an incident that led to anti-Greek riots and murders of G/c's. During the 1955-59 period more G/C's than T/C's have been killed in the island (approx 300 vs 100) and this is the start of the sectarian violence and not the 1963 one, but we don't claim some kind of genocide or attempted one for this now do we? In 1967 CIA installed a military junta in Greece and then the thing got really out of hand, when the generals didn't agree with the cia Cyprus agenda they imposed another coup within the coup in 1974 and installed the puppets that were willing to dispose Makarios from Cypriot power, an event that led to the 2 invasions of the island by Turkish armed forces vs a national guard force in what historians describe as the most unequal and unfair battle in modern history, it was a plain fucking massacre.

You guys always talk about EOKA terrorism and all but conveniently opt to leave the role of TMT paramilitaries out, which was the exact same friggin thing as EOKA. The number of false flags after 1958 to initiate this sectarian conflict is unbelievable and i'm sure we've only learned a fraction of them. Denktas himself admitted on British TV that in 1958 he bombed his own consulate and his own office in 1962 and he even made statements that T/C's killings by British forces in a 1958 riot are useful for the Turkish agenda. The controversial killings of two lawyers in 1962 were done too by TMT. Two mosques were targeted by Turkish forces in 1962 and the same mosques were torched/bombed again by Turks in 1963. The mistake of G/C's is falling for these false flags (that were revealed as such years after the invasion) and they then started targeting T/C's. Even the bathtub murders which was and still is the most promoted incident of the Turkish intl propaganda on the matter is suspect to say the least and it's not me who says all these things i just told ya but T/C's journalists, Denktas and Turkish generals themselves.
[link to www.hri.org]
[link to www.hri.org]
[link to www.hri.org]
[link to www.cyprusedirectory.com]
Greek side started to respond with FF's against the T/C's too after 63-64 that further flamed the conflict but you're on your own game here man, the number one and most used tool in the Turkish diplomacy and foreign policy is the false flags. They've taken this term to a new whole level with a proven track of FF events and state-sponsored terrorism even on their own people. Istanbul 1955 pogrom FF, Mavi Marmara FF, Alevi massacre in Maras 1978 FF, more FF's have taken place to target Alevi's and Kurds in Turkey. Just this year in a matter of 6 months the lunatics tried to pull 3 FF events in Syria killing Turkish citizens and kids in the process, someone would think that is Syria who is attacking Turkey going by your govt and MSM line and not the other way around, it's no surprise that Turkey is making genocidal claims in the Syrian situation too, while funding/training the people that commit the genocide and further flame the sectarian conflict in the first place, same shite different day if you ask me. If someone ever decided to make a thread with the Turkish FF's throughout history i bet it would be pages long, Turkish fascist para-state is so deep that has gone full retard with these things since the 20's, the criminal record is unbelievable, they always playing the dirty way of the game man, it's just not fair. tounge

Now please read these letters to UN and other officials during the critical time of 1964-68, by this T/C leader and what he says about the role of Turkish forces on the island and how they further promoted the division in the island by not allowing the T/C's to trade with G/C's, how they were forcing the T'C's into enclaves, how they were intimidating, terrorizing and threatening them, and how the enemy according to him wasn't really the G/C's but the Turkish state itself with it's agents. They're not too big, read them for a different pow other than the govt one.
[link to ihsanali.org]

I'm not saying all these to put the blame on someone else's hands, Greeks made many fatal and painfully regrettable mistakes on this but we'll only take our fair share of the blame and not the Turkish share too, the fairy-tale presented by the Turkish state that presents Turkey as the saint and a savior to justify the illegal and globally condemned occupation of the island is just half the truth man, in my view the Brits successfully achieved to make this a Greece vs Turkey thingy instead of a brutal colonialism one by provoking both sides into atrocities and selling them weapons at the same time, nothing new about this either. As i said the Greek side has already admitted their mistakes and the Greek state left Cyprus enormous space to do their own thing and become an independent sovereign and EU state, it would be great if Turkish state would quit the typical brainwashing BS and do the same and stop promoting fear in the T/C's and in an already heavily tortured island just so it will be able to keep the drug-lord mafia protectorate running, just let the people of the island be free and the right for self-determination, before the 50's the 2 communities didn't have any problem whatsoever with each other. You can bet that this won't happen if you guys still see that you have a reason for the troops to be there and claiming some kind of threat/danger and attempted genocide instead of the real reason for this which is the fucking resources, why fascist Turkish state should have a claim in the resources of the island just because there is a Turkish minority there? It's retarded and doesn't make any sense. This isn't that hard to resolve ffs, Turkey needs to leave the 2 communities alone to decide their own future and stop being the typical Med terrorist-pimp. Why should the G/C's bend over to the illegal Turkish threats and claims, what worse could really happen to them after all these shit they've been through tbh and how can the minority decide for the majority and still bitching about resources and all. There's no justification for these things bro, Turkey is alone against the whole planet on this and this should be telling you something especially when Turkey keeps complaining about Palestine and all. You guys seriously need to look this from another perspective too as we did if you want this to ever end, can't see how Turkey still thinks that she can come on top of this vs the whole fucking planet.

Sorry for huge post, just wanted to share with you my pow, i don't expect you to agree with it btw i'd gladly hear your side of the story too. I really wouldn't want to continue about who is more right or wrong on this since far greater minds than us have tried to solve this and couldn't. I just want imperialism, colonialism and illegal occupation to end, and people to go back to their homes, that's all.
Take care. cheers
pool
Netizen Ribbonmind

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01/10/2013 07:18 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
hugs Maybe there is some peace from open communication between countries.
"The earth is mother of us all, for she is just; but you, because you are unjust have pretended that she is your mother alone; and if you do not stop, I will not permit you to remain upon her."

[link to www.livius.org]

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insertfunnyusername (OP)

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Greece
01/10/2013 07:29 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
hugs Maybe there is some peace from open communication between countries.
 Quoting: pool


Maybe there is indeedhf

I truly believe that we could have friendly relations with Turkey and leave these things in the past, but this can't happen when fascist lunatics govern the place continually since then 10-20's, it's probably unprecedented in modern history. You just can't give to such lunatics "politicians" something in their claims and demands, they'll bite your arm off and still come back to ask for more. The only way for Turkey to have proper and friendly relations with all of her neighbors is to remove the crazies in power.

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 01/10/2013 07:29 PM
Gregor Samsa

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Turkey
01/11/2013 02:02 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
I forgot to add, after the clashes began many Greek Cypriots died also, according to wiki :

"Between 21Ė31 December 1963 up to 133 Turkish Cypriots were killed by Greek Cypriots.364 Turkish Cypriots and 174 Greek Cypriots were killed in the next years. 18667 Turkish Cypriots from 103 different villages abandoned their homes"

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


Off course Greek Cypriots were killed too man, the correct historical term for the pre-invasion events in Cyprus is "inter-communal or sectarian violence/conflict" and off course not the propagandistic Turkish govt line of 'genocide' or attempted genocide since both sides were involved in atrocities against each other.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

I completely oppose and fully condemn the murder of 500 people but genocide? For realz? No offense bro but i wouldn't trust fascist Turkish govt to tell me what time is it, not to advocate the definition of the term genocide with .gov link. tounge And that's without counting Turkey's true genocidal past that propagandistic govt line says that "nope, no genocide of 4+ million christians took place here lads, in fact it was Armenian gangs that killed millions of Turks" lol, and this is the propaganda that the average brainwashed ignorant in Turkey still patriotically defends. Not that they weren't indeed Armenian gangs during Turkish war of independence but gimme a break. :)

Dunno what the Turkish state tried or is trying to paint this to their citizens when at the end of the 20-year atrocities far more G/C's are still missing or have been killed than T/C's and Turks. 2000-3000 is only the number of still missing persons of all ages that were executed in mass and buried in mass graves all over the island and mainland Anatolia and Turkey still doesn't open the records to give their families a closure on this issue. Even the G/C's refugees are 10 times the number of T/C's, how can you guys claim anything close to genocide here is really beyond me. And it's true that the are more illegal mainland Turks than T/C's in the island, that was the plan all along since the 50's, sorry but i won't accept pseudo-state census, many T/C's don't like this abomination either, they're more of them in Britain than in Cyprus, more and more of them are discovering the real events and protesting against them. And that .gov link still isn't a proper answer to why Turkey is still the only country in the world that doesn't recognize Cyprus as a state and threatens war every other full-moon when there isn't really any threat for the community there anymore since Cyprus is in the EU now and wouldn't go full murdering retard now would it? Turkish state achieved the apartheid that so desperately wanted i honestly can't see how more war threats against an EU sovereign state can help the situation here and then Turkey bitching about not being an EU member at the same time. Is turkish govt playing a joke on the whole planet here or what? blink

My point is that big parts of the truth regarding the real events in Cyprus came or still coming to the surface here in Greece and Cyprus, i don't expect the same thing to happen in Turkey anytime soon coz as Anatolian said they've invested too much on the pseudo-state and also because the press is totally govt controlled there, in fact Turkey ranks in the 140th position between 179 countries regarding press freedom and i'm not joking here, look it up. But i'd expect from some Turks to look for the hidden from them side of this story besides the one given to them by their govt, it's not like that they haven't lied and massively deceived you in the past now is it? No one here in Greece still defends the actions of EOKA and the CIA junta, both Greeks and G/C have admitted and understood their past mistakes and most of them now can see how both communities have been played into this, can't see the reason why the average Turk who want this to end peacefully still has to defend their govt line, actions and an illegal imperialistic occupation. :(

Britain controlled and still can control the whole ME with their presence in Cyprus, they offered the island to Greece during ww1 for Greece to side with the allies but the then Greek king declined coz he didn't want war, which was a retarded thing to do in hindsight since at the end Greece was dragged in ww1 anyways. British colonial rule was oppressive with riots against them since the 30's, 8800 documents from 37 former colonies were recently declassified and reveal that G/C and EOKA members that at that time were targeting only the British colonial authorities, were killed and tortured in British camps, in fact at least 12 G/C have taken Britain to court for these actions this year. CIA documents just revealed this year here in Greece show how they decided to put Karamanlis as a PM in 1955 under the condition to promote their agenda in the Cypriot issue, the only thing that Karamanlis asked in return was that whatever was about to be done at least should be done with "honor" and that he wouldn't been painted out as traitor by history. Britain saw that she couldn't handle the rebellion against their rule and decided to bring Turkey in the game by conscripting T/C's in their colonial police force. That was a key and completely retarded development because as a result one T/C colonial police officer was killed in an incident that led to anti-Greek riots and murders of G/c's. During the 1955-59 period more G/C's than T/C's have been killed in the island (approx 300 vs 100) and this is the start of the sectarian violence and not the 1963 one, but we don't claim some kind of genocide or attempted one for this now do we? In 1967 CIA installed a military junta in Greece and then the thing got really out of hand, when the generals didn't agree with the cia Cyprus agenda they imposed another coup within the coup in 1974 and installed the puppets that were willing to dispose Makarios from Cypriot power, an event that led to the 2 invasions of the island by Turkish armed forces vs a national guard force in what historians describe as the most unequal and unfair battle in modern history, it was a plain fucking massacre.

You guys always talk about EOKA terrorism and all but conveniently opt to leave the role of TMT paramilitaries out, which was the exact same friggin thing as EOKA. The number of false flags after 1958 to initiate this sectarian conflict is unbelievable and i'm sure we've only learned a fraction of them. Denktas himself admitted on British TV that in 1958 he bombed his own consulate and his own office in 1962 and he even made statements that T/C's killings by British forces in a 1958 riot are useful for the Turkish agenda. The controversial killings of two lawyers in 1962 were done too by TMT. Two mosques were targeted by Turkish forces in 1962 and the same mosques were torched/bombed again by Turks in 1963. The mistake of G/C's is falling for these false flags (that were revealed as such years after the invasion) and they then started targeting T/C's. Even the bathtub murders which was and still is the most promoted incident of the Turkish intl propaganda on the matter is suspect to say the least and it's not me who says all these things i just told ya but T/C's journalists, Denktas and Turkish generals themselves.
[link to www.hri.org]
[link to www.hri.org]
[link to www.hri.org]
[link to www.cyprusedirectory.com]
Greek side started to respond with FF's against the T/C's too after 63-64 that further flamed the conflict but you're on your own game here man, the number one and most used tool in the Turkish diplomacy and foreign policy is the false flags. They've taken this term to a new whole level with a proven track of FF events and state-sponsored terrorism even on their own people. Istanbul 1955 pogrom FF, Mavi Marmara FF, Alevi massacre in Maras 1978 FF, more FF's have taken place to target Alevi's and Kurds in Turkey. Just this year in a matter of 6 months the lunatics tried to pull 3 FF events in Syria killing Turkish citizens and kids in the process, someone would think that is Syria who is attacking Turkey going by your govt and MSM line and not the other way around, it's no surprise that Turkey is making genocidal claims in the Syrian situation too, while funding/training the people that commit the genocide and further flame the sectarian conflict in the first place, same shite different day if you ask me. If someone ever decided to make a thread with the Turkish FF's throughout history i bet it would be pages long, Turkish fascist para-state is so deep that has gone full retard with these things since the 20's, the criminal record is unbelievable, they always playing the dirty way of the game man, it's just not fair. tounge

Now please read these letters to UN and other officials during the critical time of 1964-68, by this T/C leader and what he says about the role of Turkish forces on the island and how they further promoted the division in the island by not allowing the T/C's to trade with G/C's, how they were forcing the T'C's into enclaves, how they were intimidating, terrorizing and threatening them, and how the enemy according to him wasn't really the G/C's but the Turkish state itself with it's agents. They're not too big, read them for a different pow other than the govt one.
[link to ihsanali.org]

I'm not saying all these to put the blame on someone else's hands, Greeks made many fatal and painfully regrettable mistakes on this but we'll only take our fair share of the blame and not the Turkish share too, the fairy-tale presented by the Turkish state that presents Turkey as the saint and a savior to justify the illegal and globally condemned occupation of the island is just half the truth man, in my view the Brits successfully achieved to make this a Greece vs Turkey thingy instead of a brutal colonialism one by provoking both sides into atrocities and selling them weapons at the same time, nothing new about this either. As i said the Greek side has already admitted their mistakes and the Greek state left Cyprus enormous space to do their own thing and become an independent sovereign and EU state, it would be great if Turkish state would quit the typical brainwashing BS and do the same and stop promoting fear in the T/C's and in an already heavily tortured island just so it will be able to keep the drug-lord mafia protectorate running, just let the people of the island be free and the right for self-determination, before the 50's the 2 communities didn't have any problem whatsoever with each other. You can bet that this won't happen if you guys still see that you have a reason for the troops to be there and claiming some kind of threat/danger and attempted genocide instead of the real reason for this which is the fucking resources, why fascist Turkish state should have a claim in the resources of the island just because there is a Turkish minority there? It's retarded and doesn't make any sense. This isn't that hard to resolve ffs, Turkey needs to leave the 2 communities alone to decide their own future and stop being the typical Med terrorist-pimp. Why should the G/C's bend over to the illegal Turkish threats and claims, what worse could really happen to them after all these shit they've been through tbh and how can the minority decide for the majority and still bitching about resources and all. There's no justification for these things bro, Turkey is alone against the whole planet on this and this should be telling you something especially when Turkey keeps complaining about Palestine and all. You guys seriously need to look this from another perspective too as we did if you want this to ever end, can't see how Turkey still thinks that she can come on top of this vs the whole fucking planet.

Sorry for huge post, just wanted to share with you my pow, i don't expect you to agree with it btw i'd gladly hear your side of the story too. I really wouldn't want to continue about who is more right or wrong on this since far greater minds than us have tried to solve this and couldn't. I just want imperialism, colonialism and illegal occupation to end, and people to go back to their homes, that's all.
Take care. cheers
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


Wow, mate first of all i sincerely thank you for the long reply and the effort, i really appreciate it. Secondly i agree with many things you state, but not with everything, especially in details, and details mean sometimes a lot.

One thing i noticed is you claim that the Turkish state is full of propaganda and almost everyone in Turkey buy this (which i agree btw.) whereas Greek state tells the truth to their citizens and theyíre free of propaganda. You say ďNo one in Greece still defends the actions of EOKA and the CIA junta, both Greeks and G/C have admitted and understood their past mistakesĒ Really, i mean really ? Most people here does not have the perception that no one in Greece support EOKA ideology anymore and maybe feel the opposite. You see, propaganda works in both ways.

Bro, i know you are not an unaware person of the corruptions globally and lies, propaganda spread by TPTB through all politicians and governments, but i sense a little subjectivity and black&white thinking here. Please note that i dont emphasize this to justify the actions and lies of the Turkish state.

Another thing is you give the arguments of the internationally recognitions, non-recognitions as an indicator rightfulness, which i donít disagree completely, but again this is totally ignoring the corruption, deceptiveness and hypocrisy of the internationally politics and relationships. You must know all these issues are used as trump cards in internationally corrupted politics, do you really think that any politicians or people in high places care about the Armenian, Turkish, Greek etc. victims of the past or present ? So donít be surprised if US sells (to Turkey) the recognition of Northern Cyprus in exchange for being an ally and giving military support in a possible war with Iran in a few years (i am just giving as an example not claiming that this will happen).

I mean you and me, and perhaps many other people on GLP know but i donít think everyone knows the importance of the island for the international politics. Itís a bigger issue than some controversy between Greek and Turkey and the rights of the 1.2 million living there. Itís a very strategic base located in one of the geopolitically most important regions of Mediterranean and ME. Itís called a giant aircraft carrirer. So itís not surprising that all the big players have interests on the situation, openly or behind the curtains.

But since you put forward the opinion and support of the international committee and politics as an argument and an indicator of rightfulness, so what about the Kofi Annan Plan. Itís UNís plan man (and EU supported it too), for a united Cyprus and the Turkish military would leave the island for good. After years of negotiation and revisions, the result of the referendum is Greek Cypriots rejected the plan by 76%, while 65% of the Turkish Cypriots accepted it. Yeah i know itís a referendum, democratic choice of people, bu t i donít think the claim that G/C Ďs want peace while T/Cís does not is fully objective. Btw, i also think that if Cyprus wasnít a part of EU at that time the acceptance percentage of G/Cís would be higher.

Sorry for huge post, just wanted to share with you my pow, i don't expect you to agree with it btw i'd gladly hear your side of the story too. I really wouldn't want to continue about who is more right or wrong on this since far greater minds than us have tried to solve this and couldn't. I just want imperialism, colonialism and illegal occupation to end, and people to go back to their homes, that's all.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername

I know mate, same here. If it was up to you and me (or people like us) we could solve the problem in one day. Take care. hfcheers

Ps : I have just one thing to say to the coward who gave me a red karma insulting the Turks, naming them dogs, instead of participating in the discussion here. Not that i care about the red karma or any opinion of a racist douchebag, but as you may have also noticed, we, a Greek and a Turk (my friend insertfunnyusername and i ) are sharing our opinions , in a civilized and friendly manner, here. Being a racist sociopath, I donít expect you to understand this friendly manner at all, but i would rather be a dog than a pussy like you.flipoff
To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.
G.I. Gurdjieff
Gregor Samsa

User ID: 31519366
Turkey
01/11/2013 02:02 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
hugs Maybe there is some peace from open communication between countries.
 Quoting: pool


hf
To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.
G.I. Gurdjieff
John
User ID: 15619266
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01/12/2013 01:31 AM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
I think he means the population exchange when he said those islands were almost ethnically cleansed...
 Quoting: Anatolian 31776376


No, Imvros and Tenedos were exempted from the population exchange in 1923 and were ethnically cleansed in the 60's. Turkish state established an open prison in the islands that were terrorizing the population, at the end they weren't even permitted to agriculture their own lands, confiscation of properties and had to flee, settlers for mainland Turkey came in to fill the gap.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


Interesting that you know that most Greeks do not know Imbros or Tenedes. My family comes from there, my family were all farmers agriculturing the land until the war in Cyprus broke out thats when tensions started again. The Greek Government sold those islands and the Greek people living there to the Turks, without caring what will happen to them.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 31895002
Greece
01/12/2013 01:20 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Wow, mate first of all i sincerely thank you for the long reply and the effort, i really appreciate it. Secondly i agree with many things you state, but not with everything, especially in details, and details mean sometimes a lot.

One thing i noticed is you claim that the Turkish state is full of propaganda and almost everyone in Turkey buy this (which i agree btw.) whereas Greek state tells the truth to their citizens and theyíre free of propaganda. You say ďNo one in Greece still defends the actions of EOKA and the CIA junta, both Greeks and G/C have admitted and understood their past mistakesĒ Really, i mean really ? Most people here does not have the perception that no one in Greece support EOKA ideology anymore and maybe feel the opposite. You see, propaganda works in both ways.

Bro, i know you are not an unaware person of the corruptions globally and lies, propaganda spread by TPTB through all politicians and governments, but i sense a little subjectivity and black&white thinking here. Please note that i dont emphasize this to justify the actions and lies of the Turkish state.

Another thing is you give the arguments of the internationally recognitions, non-recognitions as an indicator rightfulness, which i donít disagree completely, but again this is totally ignoring the corruption, deceptiveness and hypocrisy of the internationally politics and relationships. You must know all these issues are used as trump cards in internationally corrupted politics, do you really think that any politicians or people in high places care about the Armenian, Turkish, Greek etc. victims of the past or present ? So donít be surprised if US sells (to Turkey) the recognition of Northern Cyprus in exchange for being an ally and giving military support in a possible war with Iran in a few years (i am just giving as an example not claiming that this will happen).

I mean you and me, and perhaps many other people on GLP know but i donít think everyone knows the importance of the island for the international politics. Itís a bigger issue than some controversy between Greek and Turkey and the rights of the 1.2 million living there. Itís a very strategic base located in one of the geopolitically most important regions of Mediterranean and ME. Itís called a giant aircraft carrirer. So itís not surprising that all the big players have interests on the situation, openly or behind the curtains.

But since you put forward the opinion and support of the international committee and politics as an argument and an indicator of rightfulness, so what about the Kofi Annan Plan. Itís UNís plan man (and EU supported it too), for a united Cyprus and the Turkish military would leave the island for good. After years of negotiation and revisions, the result of the referendum is Greek Cypriots rejected the plan by 76%, while 65% of the Turkish Cypriots accepted it. Yeah i know itís a referendum, democratic choice of people, bu t i donít think the claim that G/C Ďs want peace while T/Cís does not is fully objective. Btw, i also think that if Cyprus wasnít a part of EU at that time the acceptance percentage of G/Cís would be higher.

Sorry for huge post, just wanted to share with you my pow, i don't expect you to agree with it btw i'd gladly hear your side of the story too. I really wouldn't want to continue about who is more right or wrong on this since far greater minds than us have tried to solve this and couldn't. I just want imperialism, colonialism and illegal occupation to end, and people to go back to their homes, that's all.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername

I know mate, same here. If it was up to you and me (or people like us) we could solve the problem in one day. Take care. hfcheers

Ps : I have just one thing to say to the coward who gave me a red karma insulting the Turks, naming them dogs, instead of participating in the discussion here. Not that i care about the red karma or any opinion of a racist douchebag, but as you may have also noticed, we, a Greek and a Turk (my friend insertfunnyusername and i ) are sharing our opinions , in a civilized and friendly manner, here. Being a racist sociopath, I donít expect you to understand this friendly manner at all, but i would rather be a dog than a pussy like you.flipoff
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


Thank you for the reply too GS! hf
It's a great thing that we can post and chat about these things and i honestly do appreciate the posts. :)

I didn't claim that Greek state is propaganda-free, i can guarantee you that it's not, i just stated that freedom of press and respect for human rights isn't comparable between the 2 countries and i'm not saying this too diminish you guys or anything, i stand with the average oppressed citizen of any country regardless of race and religion, i believe that when Turkey finds peace and freedom the whole region will find peace too, but this can't happen with the guys you have in charge, at no point i claim we're propaganda free, we've deported and culturally assimilated people too during the rise of nationalism in the Balkans, although not anywhere near the numbers that Turkey did and this assimilation process didn't reach the holocaust proportions of aggressiveness that reached there, at some point you'll have to face your past collectively as a society, i believe it 's already starting to haunt you as more and more people realize that they have been massively deceived and discovering their true roots. After the end of ww2-civil war we don't have massacres still happening throughout the country, especially state-sponsored ones, while the deep state in Turkey still persecutes people for raising a different opinion and displacing people and minorities, this state-sponsored terrorism is still on high levels despite the "democratization" process claimed.

Freedom of press gave the chance to the people here to see the different view too and question many things of the past and this can only positively affect a society, you can't do this thing without fear there and it's not only about the press, arts/intellectuals follow, for example just this past year Erdogan ban.ned about 400-500 internationally known books claiming that they insult Islam and he bitch about EU membership at the same time, wtf, EU is not only about power of an economy, (which i admit that the Turkish economic model the last 10 years is working great for him and the country and it's admirable by many), but for freedom of expression and respect for basic human rights. You guys bitch about Western Thrace Turks but these guys do things here that if a Greek dared to do in Turkey would have been butchered on the spot, they do all kinds of provocative shit with "Independent Muslim Thrace" flags and other bs every fucking day, the consul that was attacked 2 days ago stated this week about a law related with minority issues "As long as i'm a consul in this country, there's no way this law will pass", and this is a law of the Greek state btw, it's a direct interference to national issues and politics by a friggin diplomat, you see the difference here? Everyone can go public and state whatever BS he has on his mind. At no point i'm claiming that we are model of democracy country, we're not at all, we're fucking average, we've big social, nepotism and corruption problems, we're in our biggest national crisis since Cyprus, we honestly are in deep shit of unimaginable proportions.

No one is still defending the junta here, it has been proven that it was an imperialistic cia project, same tactics with the Latin America coups of that time, they weren't here to promote the interests of Greece and the Greek people. As for EOKA support, people still support what they were standing for against the British colonial rule that they were fighting, no one defends what they did to innocent T/C's. I believe that if Turkish people learn the truth too about these tragic events and how involved was their state and how hardcore it did support the dichotomy of the island, the Cypriot issue could maybe be resolved. The Cypriot issue was and probably still is a very traumatic experience for the collective Greek psyche that changed many views on many subjects here, many G/C's were holding a grudge to mainland Greeks for the things that happened and took us many years to overcome this and see/analyze the events from a different perspective, but we moved on, we truly left the island free and gave them our support to do their own thing, doesn't mean that we're not still brothers and that we won't cooperate or support them if shtf, but for example Greece is in a big financial mess and still doesn't ask Cyprus for a plot or for some oil and gas to help our situation, why Turkey should threaten war and demand resources for mainland Turkey? I cannot understand this, it's imperialistic fascism in my book. More and more T/C's are saying that Turkey is colonizing them and using them for her own geopolitical agenda, which is true and they don't like this either, dunno if you get this kind of press there about T/C's views, but we do, T/C's starting to realize what this was all about too.

I agree with the deceptiveness and hypocrisy of the internationally politics, that's was the intent of my big post, that we both have been played on this and also that big parts of the truth regarding Cyprus are still hidden from the average Turk. For your example, even if US gives pseudo-state recognition in exchange for something doesn't mean that the whole intl community will do it too, wrong is wrong and right is right imo, intl law should be respected, it's true that it can be easily manipulated for TPTB plans, but it's not like always this, even Kosovo has been recognized by half the planet despite enormous pressure for recognition, USA didn't support the Palestine bid but there was nothing they could do about it just a while back. The pseudo-state is not anywhere close to these 2 examples and it won't ever be, can't be justified in any way.

Annan plan, it was a referendum, people decided that it was not good for them, Greece kept a neutral stance while Turkey not btw, so if G/C's think that it's not in their interests for such a thing to happen i'll stand by their decision, they certainly know better than us mainland Greeks. But for the sake of the argument i'll tell you what they thought about it. The plan was considered to be too good for the Turkish side, it gave the pseudo-state recognition of a federal state and thus legitimizing the brutal invasion and occupation. G/C's know what's Turkey agenda on this, you could very easily leave the federation and declare an independent state under intl law the next day, the same way that Turkey didn't agree with 3 peace plans after the invasion and went full retard and declared pseudo-state independence in 1983. Anan plan was 1960 all over again with both Greece and Turkey still involved with some troops in reduced numbers though and the Brits would be able to stay in the island too after so much shit they stirred there, Brits are the first that need to pack and get the fuck out. A very very important aspect is that it had limited right to return between the territories, which can't be accepted, there are 200 thousand G/C's refugees and thousand of missing persons man, their lost properties have been valued to 80-90 billion euros, you can't legalize this, what kind of solution is that if people can't go back to their homes and recover their properties? Many UN officials have their doubts about the plan too and considered it a disservice to intl law and human rights, a Turk wouldn't be able to come with a better plan, it was that favorable to your positions on the matter. The same thing i told ya before, the minority can't steal land and decide for the majority too, for 18% of the population you occupy 36% of the island and the best part of it too. Annan plan was legitimizing the invasion and the occupation and giving T/C's recognition as a state in the north and sovereign rights in the south. I believe they made the right choice, you don't negotiate and legalize the fascist Turkish state, they always come back to ask for more, you guys there as citizens maybe don't realize this but your policy after ww2 is way too aggressive for anyone to handle. Bottom line is that Cyprus and Hellenism as a whole will pay for this decision, since the rejection of the plan things and economy has gone downhill in both countries.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 31895002
Greece
01/12/2013 01:50 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
I think he means the population exchange when he said those islands were almost ethnically cleansed...
 Quoting: Anatolian 31776376


No, Imvros and Tenedos were exempted from the population exchange in 1923 and were ethnically cleansed in the 60's. Turkish state established an open prison in the islands that were terrorizing the population, at the end they weren't even permitted to agriculture their own lands, confiscation of properties and had to flee, settlers for mainland Turkey came in to fill the gap.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


Interesting that you know that most Greeks do not know Imbros or Tenedes. My family comes from there, my family were all farmers agriculturing the land until the war in Cyprus broke out thats when tensions started again. The Greek Government sold those islands and the Greek people living there to the Turks, without caring what will happen to them.
 Quoting: John 15619266


Sorry about this John. hf
There's a new book about Imbros/Tenedos, this is the promotional video with Imbriotes talking about their homes, you might like it. :)
[link to www.youtube.com]

I grew up in North Greece where most of the people from Pontus and Asia Minor came after the exchange, so these things are regularly talked about here. Cyprus issue covered these tragic events in Istanbul, Imbros, Tenedos too, in the 20 years that the Cypriot crisis lasted the last 150 thousand Greeks have been deported and had their properties confiscated from modern Turkey. This is was the problem after the 50's, they have way too aggressive minority policy by persecuting the ones in their country and not letting the ones outside their country to assimilate, in fact Turkish state does whatever it can so these people won't assimilate either in Greece, Germany, Holland etc. They always use them for their own geopolitical interests, i expect major minority shit-stirring by the Turkish state in Greek Thrace soon.
Gregor Samsa

User ID: 31997754
Turkey
01/13/2013 03:29 AM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
It's a great thing that we can post and chat about these things and i honestly do appreciate the posts. :)
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername

Likewise my friend and thank you again for your long reply.hf


After the end of ww2-civil war we don't have massacres still happening throughout the country, especially state-sponsored ones, while the deep state in Turkey still persecutes people for raising a different opinion and displacing people and minorities, this state-sponsored terrorism is still on high levels despite the "democratization" process claimed.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername

Agreed. Nevertheless i must add it is almost impossible to get rid of the 'deep state' unless a worldwide cleansing from the psychopaths happens, since the roots of the deep state lie much deeper in imperialism and TPTB. But it can change it's shape and structure. So the average person can think that the deep state in Italy, Greece, Turkey etc. (as they claim after the deceptive and fake Ergenekon operation nowadays) is eliminated for good.
Like an US politician once said (i am not sure but it may be Scowcroft, an advisor to George H. W. Bush) : "Turkey is so important and precious it can't be left to their own control."
It's a long issue but i think you know what i mean.

Freedom of press gave the chance to the people here to see the different view too and question many things of the past and this can only positively affect a society, you can't do this thing without fear there and it's not only about the press, arts/intellectuals follow, for example just this past year Erdogan ban.ned about 400-500 internationally known books claiming that they insult Islam and he bitch about EU membership at the same time

 Quoting: insertfunnyusername

Agreed. But what good is a free pres if MSM is a biased propaganda tool. We don't have dictators with epaulets anymore, but we have more devious puppets in power, parrots, repeating words like "in the name of democracy, human rights, bla bla" I would be more careful if i would live in West as once Goethe said "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

I mentioned the Annan plan and referendum, because of your reasoning that international tendency is an indicator of rightfullness (or the opposite) cool2

I don't think that our point of views differ much from each other. My primary purpose to start this discussion was to emphasize the importance of non-black&white thinking (in order to arrive a better position for peace) and that every story has another side and the vast majority of the people choose to know/believe either one of them.
To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.
G.I. Gurdjieff
Anonymous Coward
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Taiwan
01/13/2013 03:45 AM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Your point of this thread to draw hate on turk's many of your post went off topic. there for i hope turkey invades greece maybe this would stop you little faggots making anti-turk videos on youtube. -peace
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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01/13/2013 08:26 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Agreed. Nevertheless i must add it is almost impossible to get rid of the 'deep state' unless a worldwide cleansing from the psychopaths happens, since the roots of the deep state lie much deeper in imperialism and TPTB. But it can change it's shape and structure. So the average person can think that the deep state in Italy, Greece, Turkey etc. (as they claim after the deceptive and fake Ergenekon operation nowadays) is eliminated for good.
Like an US politician once said (i am not sure but it may be Scowcroft, an advisor to George H. W. Bush) : "Turkey is so important and precious it can't be left to their own control."
It's a long issue but i think you know what i mean.
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


Agreed too. Actually a British ambassador said the same time about Greece ages ago, both countries are important for TPTB geopolitical plans due to geographical position. You think Ergenekon was fake huh? I believe they just changed a few of them but deep state still running a bit reformed with Erdogan puppets now, but Erdogan found the perfect scapegoat in the deep state, he always blames it if something bad is happening or if he makes a bad call on something or losing support, got the system working both ways for him so far.

We have criminals here in charge too man, only one politician has been arrested so far and they found in his accounts something like 1% of the total Greek debt, lol, imagine if they get 20 more like him, after they looted the country they sold the place to the banksters with no other arrests so far for their traitorous policies. The "we have lots of oil/gas" is a great way to distract the sheep from the tax to death campaign implemented here, no one is telling the people how this can help us right now when these resources need a good 10+ years to give the state something of importance, but why go this way now that the creditors can seize everything, i mean everything companies, resources, lands they could even seize Parthenon i've no idea, why not go for it 5 years ago that we were still relatively sovereign and strong, i know this is a sovereign right whatever Turkey has to say on the matter but this story stinks of TPTB setup ffs.

Agreed. But what good is a free pres if MSM is a biased propaganda tool. We don't have dictators with epaulets anymore, but we have more devious puppets in power, parrots, repeating words like "in the name of democracy, human rights, bla bla" I would be more careful if i would live in West as once Goethe said "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

I mentioned the Annan plan and referendum, because of your reasoning that international tendency is an indicator of rightfullness (or the opposite) cool2

I don't think that our point of views differ much from each other. My primary purpose to start this discussion was to emphasize the importance of non-black&white thinking (in order to arrive a better position for peace) and that every story has another side and the vast majority of the people choose to know/believe either one of them.
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


Free press is not MSM man, MSM are totally controlled either by govt or big corporations, nothing free about them but there is alternative press too these days, freedom of press and expression is about not having thousand of journalists, social and political activists in jail or jailing students for 8 years for protesting. Human rights are important and should be respected imo either in US, ME, Africa, Greece or Turkey, democracy on the other hand is an illusion in todays world, it doesn't exist since multinational corporations took control of this planet, doesn't mean that we have to support or justify things that are just wrong though on state or any other level. I agree that western countries citizens are fucked too, while western leaders spread chaos in the MENA they will use the financial crisis to enslave us a little more, quality of life and personal liberties are about to get a serious hit in the west too.

Annan plan is not intl law though, doesn't represents right or wrong in any way, it's not a law or treaty, it was just a proposed peace plan, one of the many that came and went. Intl law is an indicator of rightfulness imo, it could get better for sure but it's not the law's fault that states and corporations don't respect it, unfortunately there are many ambiguities in the system that give room for manipulation and corruption, the "judges" are the problem, not the law.

I too think we're not too far at all, hehe. Maybe they should give us a shot in the dispute negotiations thingy. :)

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 01/13/2013 08:28 PM
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 31895002
Greece
01/13/2013 08:26 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Another newspaper reported yesterday that Greek govt decided to go for it and it's only a matter of time before this happens. The reason that Greece is going for it according to govt sources is because Turkey gave licenses for exploration inside Greek territorial waters back in spring.
[link to translate.google.gr]

According to the newspaper that broke this story an unnamed representative of the US embassy in Greece said that Greece should avoid unilateral moves on the matter and should cooperate with her neighbors on finding a solution. German and French embassy declined to give their opinion.
[link to translate.google.gr]
[link to www.tovima.gr]

Now Albania too is "warning" Greece about EEZ and maritime borders through Albanian press. chuckle
Albania and Greece agreed to a deal regarding maritime borders in 2009 but Albanian supreme court rejected the deal as too favorable for the Greek positions.
[link to translate.google.gr]

Cyprus Helping with Israel-Lebanon Maritime Dispute
[link to www.washingtoninstitute.org]

Lebanon, Cyprus Look to Natural Gas Reserves
[link to www.voanews.com]
Ostria1

User ID: 29325791
Greece
01/13/2013 08:31 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Another newspaper reported yesterday that Greek govt decided to go for it and it's only a matter of time before this happens. The reason that Greece is going for it according to govt sources is because Turkey gave licenses for exploration inside Greek territorial waters back in spring.
[link to translate.google.gr]

According to the newspaper that broke this story an unnamed representative of the US embassy in Greece said that Greece should avoid unilateral moves on the matter and should cooperate with her neighbors on finding a solution. German and French embassy declined to give their opinion.
[link to translate.google.gr]
[link to www.tovima.gr]

Now Albania too is "warning" Greece about EEZ and maritime borders through Albanian press. chuckle
Albania and Greece agreed to a deal regarding maritime borders in 2009 but Albanian supreme court rejected the deal as too favorable for the Greek positions.
[link to translate.google.gr]

Cyprus Helping with Israel-Lebanon Maritime Dispute
[link to www.washingtoninstitute.org]

Lebanon, Cyprus Look to Natural Gas Reserves
[link to www.voanews.com]
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


pff I m sure it wont be easy

btw check this (if you dont know it already)
[link to www.oceanuslive.org]
Ostria
insertfunnyusername (OP)

User ID: 31895002
Greece
01/13/2013 08:32 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
pff I m sure it wont be easy

btw check this (if you dont know it already)
[link to www.oceanuslive.org]
 Quoting: Ostria1


Had no idea about this, thank you. hf
Ostria1

User ID: 29325791
Greece
01/13/2013 08:35 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
pff I m sure it wont be easy

btw check this (if you dont know it already)
[link to www.oceanuslive.org]
 Quoting: Ostria1


Had no idea about this, thank you. hf
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


welcome :)
Ostria
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User ID: 28647193
01/13/2013 08:41 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Your point of this thread to draw hate on turk's many of your post went off topic. there for i hope turkey invades greece maybe this would stop you little faggots making anti-turk videos on youtube. -peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32080427


You hope Turkey invades Greece just because the OP went off-topic on his thread ?

fuckoff2

Turkey needs to understand that the days of the Ottoman empire are long gone !
Gregor Samsa

User ID: 31997754
Turkey
01/13/2013 09:00 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Your point of this thread to draw hate on turk's many of your post went off topic. there for i hope turkey invades greece maybe this would stop you little faggots making anti-turk videos on youtube. -peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32080427


You hope Turkey invades Greece just because the OP went off-topic on his thread ?

fuckoff2

Turkey needs to understand that the days of the Ottoman empire are long gone !
 Quoting: subzero86


Maybe first you need to understand that Erdogan is not Turkey.
To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.
G.I. Gurdjieff
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User ID: 32137123
United States
01/13/2013 09:08 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Your point of this thread to draw hate on turk's many of your post went off topic. there for i hope turkey invades greece maybe this would stop you little faggots making anti-turk videos on youtube. -peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32080427


You hope Turkey invades Greece just because the OP went off-topic on his thread ?

fuckoff2

Turkey needs to understand that the days of the Ottoman empire are long gone !
 Quoting: subzero86


Maybe first you need to understand that Erdogan is not Turkey.
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


I hope Greece and other Europeans invade Turkey and take back what is rightfully theirs.
Gregor Samsa

User ID: 31997754
Turkey
01/13/2013 09:19 PM

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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
Your point of this thread to draw hate on turk's many of your post went off topic. there for i hope turkey invades greece maybe this would stop you little faggots making anti-turk videos on youtube. -peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32080427


You hope Turkey invades Greece just because the OP went off-topic on his thread ?

fuckoff2

Turkey needs to understand that the days of the Ottoman empire are long gone !
 Quoting: subzero86


Maybe first you need to understand that Erdogan is not Turkey.
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


I hope Greece and other Europeans invade Turkey and take back what is rightfully theirs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32137123


And also as a little child you were hoping that you'll have a good and unmiserable life, that you'll be a successful, adorable person, didn't ya ?
To know means to know all. Not to know all means not to know. In order to know all, it is only necessary to know a little. But, in order to know this little, it is first necessary to know pretty much.
G.I. Gurdjieff
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32137123
United States
01/13/2013 09:23 PM
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Re: So It Begins: Turkey Warns Greece Against Oil Exploration In The Aegean, Turkish experts accuse Greece of illegally snatching 16 islands
...


You hope Turkey invades Greece just because the OP went off-topic on his thread ?

fuckoff2

Turkey needs to understand that the days of the Ottoman empire are long gone !
 Quoting: subzero86


Maybe first you need to understand that Erdogan is not Turkey.
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


I hope Greece and other Europeans invade Turkey and take back what is rightfully theirs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32137123


And also as a little child you were hoping that you'll have a good and unmiserable life, that you'll be a successful, adorable person, didn't ya ?
 Quoting: Gregor Samsa


Yes and it turned out true. I'm also hoping Germany kicks you mother fuckers out too.

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