Agreed. Nevertheless i must add it is almost impossible to get rid of the 'deep state' unless a worldwide cleansing from the psychopaths happens, since the roots of the deep state lie much deeper in imperialism and TPTB. But it can change it's shape and structure. So the average person can think that the deep state in Italy, Greece, Turkey etc. (as they claim after the deceptive and fake Ergenekon operation nowadays) is eliminated for good. Quoting: Gregor Samsa
Like an US politician once said (i am not sure but it may be Scowcroft, an advisor to George H. W. Bush) : "Turkey is so important and precious it can't be left to their own control."
It's a long issue but i think you know what i mean.
Agreed too. Actually a British ambassador said the same time about Greece ages ago, both countries are important for TPTB geopolitical plans due to geographical position. You think Ergenekon was fake huh? I believe they just changed a few of them but deep state still running a bit reformed with Erdogan puppets now, but Erdogan found the perfect scapegoat in the deep state, he always blames it if something bad is happening or if he makes a bad call on something or losing support, got the system working both ways for him so far.
We have criminals here in charge too man, only one politician has been arrested so far and they found in his accounts something like 1% of the total Greek debt, lol, imagine if they get 20 more like him, after they looted the country they sold the place to the banksters with no other arrests so far for their traitorous policies. The "we have lots of oil/gas" is a great way to distract the sheep from the tax to death campaign implemented here, no one is telling the people how this can help us right now when these resources need a good 10+ years to give the state something of importance, but why go this way now that the creditors can seize everything, i mean everything companies, resources, lands they could even seize Parthenon i've no idea, why not go for it 5 years ago that we were still relatively sovereign and strong, i know this is a sovereign right whatever Turkey has to say on the matter but this story stinks of TPTB setup ffs.
Quoting: Gregor Samsa
Agreed. But what good is a free pres if MSM is a biased propaganda tool. We don't have dictators with epaulets anymore, but we have more devious puppets in power, parrots, repeating words like "in the name of democracy, human rights, bla bla" I would be more careful if i would live in West as once Goethe said "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
I mentioned the Annan plan and referendum, because of your reasoning that international tendency is an indicator of rightfullness (or the opposite)
I don't think that our point of views differ much from each other. My primary purpose to start this discussion was to emphasize the importance of non-black&white thinking (in order to arrive a better position for peace) and that every story has another side and the vast majority of the people choose to know/believe either one of them.
Free press is not MSM man, MSM are totally controlled either by govt or big corporations, nothing free about them but there is alternative press too these days, freedom of press and expression is about not having thousand of journalists, social and political activists in jail or jailing students for 8 years for protesting. Human rights are important and should be respected imo either in US, ME, Africa, Greece or Turkey, democracy on the other hand is an illusion in todays world, it doesn't exist since multinational corporations took control of this planet, doesn't mean that we have to support or justify things that are just wrong though on state or any other level. I agree that western countries citizens are fucked too, while western leaders spread chaos in the MENA they will use the financial crisis to enslave us a little more, quality of life and personal liberties are about to get a serious hit in the west too.
Annan plan is not intl law though, doesn't represents right or wrong in any way, it's not a law or treaty, it was just a proposed peace plan, one of the many that came and went. Intl law is an indicator of rightfulness imo, it could get better for sure but it's not the law's fault that states and corporations don't respect it, unfortunately there are many ambiguities in the system that give room for manipulation and corruption, the "judges" are the problem, not the law.
I too think we're not too far at all, hehe. Maybe they should give us a shot in the dispute negotiations thingy. :)