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If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?

 
Don'tBeAfraid
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01/08/2013 01:41 AM
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If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?

If there were a pandemic, it would be hard to know right away. While there is media coverage, there also would be talking heads trying to urge calm and explain away any problems. Why? The main reason is to avoid panic, maintain financial markets, maintain the supply chain, and keep control of the situation with security forces.

Journalists need sources to operate. While they do like to be the one to scoop another network, they aren't willing to burn bridges in order to do so. Unless the need to reveal the truth exceeds the need to burn sources, then they aren't going to do it.

Because revealing a pandemic would incite many to reacting in unusual ways and cause chaos, and because media outlets are big business, not the independent journalists you think they are, they have a responsibility to only offer verifiable information so they don't get in trouble with their sponsors, the government, and lose viewers too.

However if there was ever going to be a pandemic, then there would be ways to learn where it was happening.

When a pandemic begins to happen, there's a large increase in absenteeism. This often ultimately results in orders not being filled, shipped, transferred. It results in an increase in purchase orders for materials in anticipation of eventual shortages because of the lack of personnel.

A primary way would be in looking at coal shipments to utility companies. Likewise, larger than normal water purification chemicals would be ordered and delivered to water utilities. They would be concerned about shortages of these and being able to supply enough in electricity and water to keep people safe.

Another very telling sign would be a decision for a medical center to keep their workers in dormatories and not allow them to go home. They would do this if they felt the risk was too high that the workers wouldn't return to work.

If there were a pandemic coming, then military forces would be organized. They have the easiest means of controlling alternative ways of logistically supply materials and manpower as well as specialty personnel in health care, utilities, trucking, as well as security.

There are tiers of critical infrastructure. Chances are those in layers of these areas would get some advanced notification of changes, and would leak the information to their families and people would purchase items in bulk suddenly.

Changes would occur in the number of vehicles on the road. Ordinarily I would say on barges, but since the issues with the drought and the Mississippi River, then that's not available to us. While things do get shipped by railroads, there's not enough and more need to be build for the River issue alone. Still you might see more railroad traffic. Airplane shipments too.

You would begin to see problems with restocking of shelves in stores with normally high volumes but who ordinarily have no problem restocking on the late night/early morning shift (often called 3rd shift).

Hospitals would preorder health supplies and would report shortages of drugs, gloves, oxygen tanks, masks, etc. These shortages are reported at the FDA website, since that's pretty profile.

Because people spread disease, changes would begin to take place in traffic control to reduce unnecessary purchases of consumer goods. The risk would be high of transmission.

Schools would have a tough issue. Since schools are incubators of illness, but they get government funds based upon the census percentage (how many show up), then at a certain point they really lose too much money if there's inadequate census and they're forced to shutdown by economic as well as health issues.

Have any other ideas?

It's very early for this flu season, and overreacting isn't helpful.

What is helpful is being prepared by having a month of food, water, medical supplies, cash, paying up bills, learning skills, etc.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/14/2013 05:36 AM
mopar28m
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01/08/2013 01:42 AM

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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
It's already here.

A hospital in PA is full. I know a lot of kids are home sick locally & around the state.

Nationally, it's wide spread.

Your best defense is to take Vit. D3.
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Racin​g to end vaccinations.
MHz

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01/08/2013 01:55 AM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Caskets have 18 wheels.
Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

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01/08/2013 02:02 AM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Caskets have 18 wheels.
 Quoting: MHz


During the last flu scare, morticians were contacted and placed in a 2nd tier of critical infrastructure. It's entirely true that they would be involved, particularly crematoriums because burial in Winter is difficult.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/08/2013 02:03 AM
Butterfly girl

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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
that's just it...people wouldn't take a flu threat seriously.
Back in the "olden days" a family would avoid going to town for weeks if they heard of an outbreak
To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven... A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance....
Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

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01/08/2013 02:25 AM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
that's just it...people wouldn't take a flu threat seriously.
Back in the "olden days" a family would avoid going to town for weeks if they heard of an outbreak
 Quoting: Butterfly girl


That's entirely true. Because towns were small and rural, they were isolated. This self-limited the spread of a disease.

One of the issues with any pandemic is communication. If the communication lines are diminished in any capacity, then there would be limited ways of knowing the spread.

One of the concerns in that area is INTERNIC. They do IP forwarding of the actual name of the website versus the URL name. So, if INTERNIC wanted to restrict site traffic, they'd go down, and then only those who knew the IP address of someplace like GLP could communicate. It would be one way of lessening web traffic and restricting the flow of citizen journalists.

One person in the medical community who's been very forthcoming is Dr.Grattan Woodson MD. He was a freguent contributer at flutrackers, and always gave good information about the pathology of influenza subtypes as well as medical response. I think if we had a pandemic, he'd be very vocal.
Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

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01/08/2013 03:14 AM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
One of the simple ways to know the severity of an illness as well as the geographic distribution is to pay attention to two news items: prisoner deaths and illnesses at military facilities.

Because these two groups are in such close proximity, both tend to get flu illnesses early and in worse intensity. Seeing that occur in isolated reports would demonstrated a severe epidemic bordering a pandemic.

Naturally prisoners get weaker healthcare, and are more prone to being isolated and then found dead versus the constant surveilance of military personnel.

Reports of isolation at airports, or restriction at airports was the standard operating protocol to limit the spread of pandemics, BUT this failed the last time, as the influenza spread faster and was undetected until a lot of people had moved through the transportation system. As such, it failed to work.

The idea was simple, restrict travel, and hence lower the amount of illness coming in, with the subsequent transferral of illness to places like hotels, restrants, family members, museums, sporting events, cultural events, etc. All these have very high potential for transmission.

So I don't think we can count upon this as a surveilance system. There were issues with the flu in Mexico, but by the time anyone noticed, it was already in the USA.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/08/2013 03:15 AM
MHz

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01/08/2013 03:19 AM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Caskets have 18 wheels.
 Quoting: MHz


During the last flu scare, morticians were contacted and placed in a 2nd tier of critical infrastructure. It's entirely true that they would be involved, particularly crematoriums because burial in Winter is difficult.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid

How many would they infect as they traveled back and forth from work?
Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

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01/08/2013 03:24 AM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Caskets have 18 wheels.
 Quoting: MHz


During the last flu scare, morticians were contacted and placed in a 2nd tier of critical infrastructure. It's entirely true that they would be involved, particularly crematoriums because burial in Winter is difficult.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid

How many would they infect as they traveled back and forth from work?
 Quoting: MHz


I don't understand your question.

Morticians were contacted by the government because they had a role in burial or burning the dead. If there were a pandemic, then there would be an alteration in funeral practices. No public viewing. No attendance of funerals either, because such gatherings tend to transmit illnesses.

Then there were concerns about the disposal of bodies, mass graves, issues with contamination into the ground water, etc.

The morticians would be a potential vector of transmission of the influenza virus. When they wanted some samples of the 1918 flu, they dug up bodies that were stored in permafrost zones, and the flu was still alive and able to be replicated. It's viralant(very infectious and deadly) and difficult to kill. So anyone who handles bodies would risk being infected and also transmitting the flu.

By the way, position papers were drawn up during the earlier Bird Flu concern as well as the recent Swine Flu and during that time many documents were accidentally leaked from places like Congressional Research Services. Those documented how they were thinking of doing these things in a real crisis in America.

Note: this means if there was a pandemic, then likely church, temple, mosque services would first be very discouraged, then later not allowed.

During the Swine Flu Debacle, Congress had many open door sessions, and some were broadcast on CSPAN, but others were only available on the Internet as streaming video. In many cases, some of the expert testimony was alarming, but never made public, because while it was streamed, they didn't leave up the links to the video files very long.

In some of those, they discussed things like governors closing bridges to limit interstate traffic, so in a real pandemic, it's very likely that such checkpoints would be made, making it obvious how serious it was.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/08/2013 03:33 AM
Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

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01/09/2013 10:28 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
A couple of quick thoughts:
1) We can't tell if there's a pandemic from biostatistics. The issue is simple. Most people who die of the flu don't get autopsied quickly and then it takes time to ascertain the actual pathogen (was is H1N1 or H3N2 or bacterial of some sort) that caused respiratory distress. Some cases are complicated because the patient may die of a heart attack, but it was triggered by respiratory flu.

Because there's delays in tabulating the results, and these results are in little read medical documents, it could be months before we know the data and analysis. That information has to be reviewed before releasing it too.

2) The last couple of times when the federal government was dicussing pandemic, they also were checking on local facilities where a) refugees could stay if the pandemic was bad and b) large facilities where patients could stay in an overflow capacity. Likely candidates like megachurches and private schools, and they would be contacted and therefore leaks would get out about whether such inquires were being made.

3) Because there's a limited number of medical personnel, and because they also could get sick, there have been numerous government documents discussing alternative medical staff like: dentists, chiropracters, medical students, etc who work in health care but would be utilized in another capacity to take some of the strain off of docs and nurses. Those folks would get word of asking for volunteers.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/09/2013 10:33 PM
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 10:29 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Why don't people here just get flu shots?
Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

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01/09/2013 10:32 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Why don't people here just get flu shots?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31852533


You obviously haven't done any research about the vaccine and it's efficacy. Sad, but typical of most people. I challenge you to actually stop believing everything you think you know, do some critical thinking, ask some medical workers if they got a flu shot, and actually read some medical literature about this flu season and the vaccine that was prepared.

Then ask me that question.
Useless Cookie Eater

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01/09/2013 10:32 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
that's just it...people wouldn't take a flu threat seriously.
Back in the "olden days" a family would avoid going to town for weeks if they heard of an outbreak
 Quoting: Butterfly girl


That's entirely true. Because towns were small and rural, they were isolated. This self-limited the spread of a disease.

One of the issues with any pandemic is communication. If the communication lines are diminished in any capacity, then there would be limited ways of knowing the spread.

One of the concerns in that area is INTERNIC. They do IP forwarding of the actual name of the website versus the URL name. So, if INTERNIC wanted to restrict site traffic, they'd go down, and then only those who knew the IP address of someplace like GLP could communicate. It would be one way of lessening web traffic and restricting the flow of citizen journalists.

One person in the medical community who's been very forthcoming is Dr.Grattan Woodson MD. He was a freguent contributer at flutrackers, and always gave good information about the pathology of influenza subtypes as well as medical response. I think if we had a pandemic, he'd be very vocal.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


INTERNIC is old school.
The DNS servers are now spread out among many companies.
Level 3 is one of the MAJOR players....among many others.

INTERNIC no longer has monopolistic control of all the internet DNS resources.

...and what this has to do with a pandemic....I have no idea. lmao

Last Edited by Useless Cookie Eater on 01/09/2013 10:33 PM
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 10:34 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Why don't people here just get flu shots?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31852533


You obviously haven't done any research about the vaccine and it's efficacy. Sad, but typical of most people. I challenge you to actually stop believing everything you think you know, do some critical thinking, ask some medical workers if they got a flu shot, and actually read some medical literature about this flu season and the vaccine that was prepared.

Then ask me that question.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


I haven't done any research but I think people are afraid because in the past the flu shot actually killed thousands of people or something like that?
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 10:35 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
that's just it...people wouldn't take a flu threat seriously.
Back in the "olden days" a family would avoid going to town for weeks if they heard of an outbreak
 Quoting: Butterfly girl


My mother was just two years old during the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic. She told me that her mom and dad kept everyone at home for weeks at a time when there would be flare-ups in town. They lived out on a farm and basically "made-do" with their own sustenance. No deaths in our family. Just sayin, isolate yourself. Five little kids and no deaths, living in the middle of the epidemic, New York state in 1918.

Oh, my Grandma was a MAJOR clean freak, too.
mopar28m
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01/09/2013 10:37 PM

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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Why don't people here just get flu shots?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31852533


You must like mercury - 25 mcg of it to be exact.
vaccinefreehealth.spam

vaccinefreehealth@hushmail.com

Racin​g to end vaccinations.
Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

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01/09/2013 10:38 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
that's just it...people wouldn't take a flu threat seriously.
Back in the "olden days" a family would avoid going to town for weeks if they heard of an outbreak
 Quoting: Butterfly girl


That's entirely true. Because towns were small and rural, they were isolated. This self-limited the spread of a disease.

One of the issues with any pandemic is communication. If the communication lines are diminished in any capacity, then there would be limited ways of knowing the spread.

One of the concerns in that area is INTERNIC. They do IP forwarding of the actual name of the website versus the URL name. So, if INTERNIC wanted to restrict site traffic, they'd go down, and then only those who knew the IP address of someplace like GLP could communicate. It would be one way of lessening web traffic and restricting the flow of citizen journalists.

One person in the medical community who's been very forthcoming is Dr.Grattan Woodson MD. He was a freguent contributer at flutrackers, and always gave good information about the pathology of influenza subtypes as well as medical response. I think if we had a pandemic, he'd be very vocal.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


INTERNIC is old school.
The DNS servers are now spread out among many companies.
Level 3 is one of the MAJOR players....among many others.

INTERNIC no longer has monopolistic control of all the internet DNS resources.

...and what this has to do with a pandemic....I have no idea. lmao
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater

If you were to type in www.godlikeproductions.com and then try to access it during a pandemic, then chances are the bandwidth would be restricted, and also the url wouldn't work. A simple way they could block it would be to block a domain name. In fact that's been done at least 75 times to US websites without due process of Law. If you know the dotted quad (IPv4 ) address, then you type that number in directly and still get to the website.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 10:39 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Why don't people here just get flu shots?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31852533


You must like mercury - 25 mcg of it to be exact.
 Quoting: mopar28m


If it helps me, why not?
BxMac

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01/09/2013 10:39 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
I've been watching my canary for the last few days. He's wobbling, but still whistling.
Useless Cookie Eater

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01/09/2013 10:45 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
that's just it...people wouldn't take a flu threat seriously.
Back in the "olden days" a family would avoid going to town for weeks if they heard of an outbreak
 Quoting: Butterfly girl


That's entirely true. Because towns were small and rural, they were isolated. This self-limited the spread of a disease.

One of the issues with any pandemic is communication. If the communication lines are diminished in any capacity, then there would be limited ways of knowing the spread.

One of the concerns in that area is INTERNIC. They do IP forwarding of the actual name of the website versus the URL name. So, if INTERNIC wanted to restrict site traffic, they'd go down, and then only those who knew the IP address of someplace like GLP could communicate. It would be one way of lessening web traffic and restricting the flow of citizen journalists.

One person in the medical community who's been very forthcoming is Dr.Grattan Woodson MD. He was a freguent contributer at flutrackers, and always gave good information about the pathology of influenza subtypes as well as medical response. I think if we had a pandemic, he'd be very vocal.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


INTERNIC is old school.
The DNS servers are now spread out among many companies.
Level 3 is one of the MAJOR players....among many others.

INTERNIC no longer has monopolistic control of all the internet DNS resources.

...and what this has to do with a pandemic....I have no idea. lmao
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater

If you were to type in www.godlikeproductions.com and then try to access it during a pandemic, then chances are the bandwidth would be restricted, and also the url wouldn't work. A simple way they could block it would be to block a domain name. In fact that's been done at least 75 times to US websites without due process of Law. If you know the dotted quad (IPv4 ) address, then you type that number in directly and still get to the website.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


1) INTERNIC never had ANY bearing on bandwith via ISP's.
Nor do they now.

2) URL wouldn't work? Based on what criterion?
....and why would they block it?
Is news of a pandemic something that requires ISP's to block off a website.
Illogical and non-sensical. Sorry.

3) There are ALWAYS ways to get around things.
They could NEVER fully shut down communications between people.
In the VERY worst scenario the old DIALUP BBS's would come back to life within 24hrs.....and they cannot control them.

Last Edited by Useless Cookie Eater on 01/09/2013 10:46 PM
Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

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01/09/2013 10:46 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Why don't people here just get flu shots?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31852533


You obviously haven't done any research about the vaccine and it's efficacy. Sad, but typical of most people. I challenge you to actually stop believing everything you think you know, do some critical thinking, ask some medical workers if they got a flu shot, and actually read some medical literature about this flu season and the vaccine that was prepared.

Then ask me that question.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


I haven't done any research but I think people are afraid because in the past the flu shot actually killed thousands of people or something like that?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31852533


NOPE. The vaccine mixed up for this year has no effect on the strain that is making people sick.

You can take a vaccine over and over, but if it's not matched up to the prevalent one that is affecting people, it won't work.

Some vaccines, depends upon the country as not all are alike but created based upon the local strains, contain adjuvants. They are ways to cheaply use less of the actual vaccine and use chemical additives to trigger a stronger immune response. Some vaccines use attenuated viruses which are weaker versions of live viruses and could make you sick.

It is true that sometimes vaccines are contaminated and have killed or maimed people.

A lot of medical personnel refuse vaccines or take them under protest because they know they don't work, make people who take them feel more confident that they are "safe" and then get sloppy with good sanitation. There's lots of these medical folks.

There acutally was concern during the first Gulf War, and our soldiers were given experimental vaccines which dosed them with dangerous side effects and combined with exposure and petrochemicals that were burning produced Gulf War Syndrome.

Do some reading before you do knee jerk response.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 10:49 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
my guy had the shot is now VERY sick I didn't and im not healthy and do not got flu.

explain...
KateSask

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01/09/2013 10:54 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
I don't know the answer OP but the flu is the top story up north here, even a major hospital in Saskatoon is turning away patients as of today and canceling surgeries because they're FULL! Really scary this is happening so early in the flu season. Heard it's happening in Calgary too with hospitals. Scary. hiding

Last Edited by KateSask on 01/09/2013 10:54 PM
.


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Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

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01/09/2013 10:54 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
...


That's entirely true. Because towns were small and rural, they were isolated. This self-limited the spread of a disease.

One of the issues with any pandemic is communication. If the communication lines are diminished in any capacity, then there would be limited ways of knowing the spread.

One of the concerns in that area is INTERNIC. They do IP forwarding of the actual name of the website versus the URL name. So, if INTERNIC wanted to restrict site traffic, they'd go down, and then only those who knew the IP address of someplace like GLP could communicate. It would be one way of lessening web traffic and restricting the flow of citizen journalists.

One person in the medical community who's been very forthcoming is Dr.Grattan Woodson MD. He was a freguent contributer at flutrackers, and always gave good information about the pathology of influenza subtypes as well as medical response. I think if we had a pandemic, he'd be very vocal.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


INTERNIC is old school.
The DNS servers are now spread out among many companies.
Level 3 is one of the MAJOR players....among many others.

INTERNIC no longer has monopolistic control of all the internet DNS resources.

...and what this has to do with a pandemic....I have no idea. lmao
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater

If you were to type in www.godlikeproductions.com and then try to access it during a pandemic, then chances are the bandwidth would be restricted, and also the url wouldn't work. A simple way they could block it would be to block a domain name. In fact that's been done at least 75 times to US websites without due process of Law. If you know the dotted quad (IPv4 ) address, then you type that number in directly and still get to the website.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


1) INTERNIC never had ANY bearing on bandwith via ISP's.
Nor do they now.

2) URL wouldn't work? Based on what criterion?
....and why would they block it?
Is news of a pandemic something that requires ISP's to block off a website.
Illogical and non-sensical. Sorry.

3) There are ALWAYS ways to get around things.
They could NEVER fully shut down communications between people.
In the VERY worst scenario the old DIALUP BBS's would come back to life within 24hrs.....and they cannot control them.
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater



1) You're right. INTERVIC doesn't control bandwidth. The cable and satellite companies have been detailed in government documents on pandemic preparedness and have discussed limiting bandwidth such that the Internet could be used for other things. One proposal was to do schooling this way. School children could only access certain websites for educational purposes during a pandemic since schools are a primary vector for illness.

2) Panic. The powers that be would not want citizen reporting of alternative explantion of the pandemic's cause nor treatment nor numbers. The most likely candidates are alternative media.
[link to torrentfreak.com]
The government accidentally shut down 84,000 websites because they thought they had something to do with torrents. Something like this could also be done if there was a pandemic. So right there is proof of concept. They can do it. Will they do it? Who knows?

3) Yes. You're right. If and only if communications are not restricted. Because in a pandemic a lot of people could be sick, and communications is critical infrastructure, then not only might cable and satellite be restircted but also phone communications. In addition, phone communications are frequently hammered by the flood of people seeking intel and so cell and landlines are jammed in most disasters and emergencies.

It's entirely possible to use BBS and spread the word person-to-person. That is true as long as power and phones work.
Useless Cookie Eater

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01/09/2013 10:58 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
...


INTERNIC is old school.
The DNS servers are now spread out among many companies.
Level 3 is one of the MAJOR players....among many others.

INTERNIC no longer has monopolistic control of all the internet DNS resources.

...and what this has to do with a pandemic....I have no idea. lmao
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater

If you were to type in www.godlikeproductions.com and then try to access it during a pandemic, then chances are the bandwidth would be restricted, and also the url wouldn't work. A simple way they could block it would be to block a domain name. In fact that's been done at least 75 times to US websites without due process of Law. If you know the dotted quad (IPv4 ) address, then you type that number in directly and still get to the website.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


1) INTERNIC never had ANY bearing on bandwith via ISP's.
Nor do they now.

2) URL wouldn't work? Based on what criterion?
....and why would they block it?
Is news of a pandemic something that requires ISP's to block off a website.
Illogical and non-sensical. Sorry.

3) There are ALWAYS ways to get around things.
They could NEVER fully shut down communications between people.
In the VERY worst scenario the old DIALUP BBS's would come back to life within 24hrs.....and they cannot control them.
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater



1) You're right. INTERVIC doesn't control bandwidth. The cable and satellite companies have been detailed in government documents on pandemic preparedness and have discussed limiting bandwidth such that the Internet could be used for other things. One proposal was to do schooling this way. School children could only access certain websites for educational purposes during a pandemic since schools are a primary vector for illness.

2) Panic. The powers that be would not want citizen reporting of alternative explantion of the pandemic's cause nor treatment nor numbers. The most likely candidates are alternative media.
[link to torrentfreak.com]
The government accidentally shut down 84,000 websites because they thought they had something to do with torrents. Something like this could also be done if there was a pandemic. So right there is proof of concept. They can do it. Will they do it? Who knows?

3) Yes. You're right. If and only if communications are not restricted. Because in a pandemic a lot of people could be sick, and communications is critical infrastructure, then not only might cable and satellite be restircted but also phone communications. In addition, phone communications are frequently hammered by the flood of people seeking intel and so cell and landlines are jammed in most disasters and emergencies.

It's entirely possible to use BBS and spread the word person-to-person. That is true as long as power and phones work.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Your ENTIRE line of thinking assumes that the USA is totally doomed...and government controls everything.
Not realistic.
Didn't you learn your lesson with UBER DOOM on December 21st 2012?

The true doom that is coming is economic...and totalitarian....not viral.
Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

User ID: 1110734
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01/09/2013 11:09 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
...

If you were to type in www.godlikeproductions.com and then try to access it during a pandemic, then chances are the bandwidth would be restricted, and also the url wouldn't work. A simple way they could block it would be to block a domain name. In fact that's been done at least 75 times to US websites without due process of Law. If you know the dotted quad (IPv4 ) address, then you type that number in directly and still get to the website.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


1) INTERNIC never had ANY bearing on bandwith via ISP's.
Nor do they now.

2) URL wouldn't work? Based on what criterion?
....and why would they block it?
Is news of a pandemic something that requires ISP's to block off a website.
Illogical and non-sensical. Sorry.

3) There are ALWAYS ways to get around things.
They could NEVER fully shut down communications between people.
In the VERY worst scenario the old DIALUP BBS's would come back to life within 24hrs.....and they cannot control them.
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater



1) You're right. INTERVIC doesn't control bandwidth. The cable and satellite companies have been detailed in government documents on pandemic preparedness and have discussed limiting bandwidth such that the Internet could be used for other things. One proposal was to do schooling this way. School children could only access certain websites for educational purposes during a pandemic since schools are a primary vector for illness.

2) Panic. The powers that be would not want citizen reporting of alternative explantion of the pandemic's cause nor treatment nor numbers. The most likely candidates are alternative media.
[link to torrentfreak.com]
The government accidentally shut down 84,000 websites because they thought they had something to do with torrents. Something like this could also be done if there was a pandemic. So right there is proof of concept. They can do it. Will they do it? Who knows?

3) Yes. You're right. If and only if communications are not restricted. Because in a pandemic a lot of people could be sick, and communications is critical infrastructure, then not only might cable and satellite be restircted but also phone communications. In addition, phone communications are frequently hammered by the flood of people seeking intel and so cell and landlines are jammed in most disasters and emergencies.

It's entirely possible to use BBS and spread the word person-to-person. That is true as long as power and phones work.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Your ENTIRE line of thinking assumes that the USA is totally doomed...and government controls everything.
Not realistic.
Didn't you learn your lesson with UBER DOOM on December 21st 2012?

The true doom that is coming is economic...and totalitarian....not viral.
 Quoting: Useless Cookie Eater


Whoa there. Not true. You just made a huge intellectual leap off a cliff.

I actually don't think we have a pandemic yet. The entire topic about how would we know? These are logical steps that have been illustrated in numerous government documents of pandemic scenarios.Not joking.

I actually criticized all of the Mayan prophesy folks. You can look that up from my sig.

Most of my posts are precisely in agreement that the largest threats are economic and totalitarian. My entire topic in my sig is about how to deal with those changes if they ever occur.

I'm going to see if I can find my old pandemic information. If I find it, then I'll post the links. Particularly abour communications since it seems you work in the industry.

In 2009, a cursory inspection of THOMAS, which is the government database on congressional bills revealed many fast enacted legislation that would do things like make all HAM radio equipment subject to seizure as well as using HAM radio operators during a pandemic. Communications has always been among the top tier of concern during a pandemic.
Don'tBeAfraid (OP)

User ID: 1110734
United States
01/09/2013 11:18 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Limiting bandwith during a Pandemic:
[link to www.techrepublic.com]

Direct GAO link discussing the need:
[link to www.gao.gov]

I don't think we can include Reuters links but they had one titled SEC and Homeland Security need Web backup, GAO says on Oct 26, 2009 which details this issue. You can look it up yourself. It discusses blocking websites during a pandemic to assist bandwidth for government use or for critical infrastucture. As such many sites like this one, you'd have difficulty getting to it.

The Cybersecurity Act of 2009 would leave it up to the discretion of the President to decide on shutting down the Internet during a crisis which is entirely up to his discretion. Do you need more links? There's definitely more.

GAO-10-8 listed above discusses using the Internet during a Pandemic as a means of education in case schools are closed. That information is within the link above.

Question for Useless Cookie Eater, am I still illogical and nonsensical now that I've demonstrated that the US government has specifically considered doing precisely what I stated?

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/09/2013 11:39 PM
SilverPatriot

User ID: 10518597
United States
01/09/2013 11:34 PM

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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
One has to take responsibility, be as proactive s possible concerning bacterial and viral infections, first make cleaning your environment and body paramount, and utilize what nature has provided to assist your body and build immunity.

During flu season we drink a tea made from olive leaf and green/black teas and peppermint that w drink daily and have not had as much as a cold in over 6 years. During the summer months if we even sense a cold might be starting, we take a shot glass of colloidal silver every three to four hours and this solves the problem.

Olive tree (Olea europaea) leaves: potential beneficial effects on human health
[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

Oil of Oregano
[link to www.homeremediesweb.com]

Oil of Oregano
[link to www.digitalnaturopath.com]

Curcumin and Turmeric
[link to www.turmeric-curcumin.com]

The Health Benefits of Cilantro
[link to www.globalhealingcenter.com]

Iodine
[link to iodine4health.com]

Colloidal silver
[link to altered-states.net]
Spine monkey

User ID: 31824263
United States
01/09/2013 11:42 PM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Check this website every day and you'll know all you need:

[link to singtomeohmuse.com]

It's a forum that tracks all manner of illnesses, but this one is limited to influenza. I used it to keep track of things during the H1N1 outbreak. For today, for instance, you 'll find aggregated any news about the influenza outbreak anywhere in the world.

Go there!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1550123
United States
01/10/2013 12:02 AM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
Why don't people here just get flu shots?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31852533


this strain was not in the flu shot. so the flu shot was useless. it usually is anyway and the mercury and aluminum etc in it is very bad for you. better to take vitamin d and c and keep your immune system strong. astragalus is good for that.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1550123
United States
01/10/2013 12:03 AM
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Re: If there was a pandemic coming, how would we know?
my guy had the shot is now VERY sick I didn't and im not healthy and do not got flu.

explain...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26293126


do some internet research as to what is in the shot and the side effects of these shots.

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