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The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)

 
Chrit

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01/08/2013 07:07 PM

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The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
This thread is to inform people on the next step in gun control that will be pushed on the U.S. in the next year or two. Now if we all stick together and make our voices heard we can very well avoid this next step.



They will be coming after our hollow points; this is why the great stock up by the government. They are purchasing stockpiles before the manufacturing is slowed to a near stop and they become much more expensive to produce.

Now the United States never signed The Hague accord in 1899 that banned the use of expanding ammunition in warfare but we do follow the guidelines regardless. The majority of countries consider the Hague Accords to ban the use of expanding ammunition for ALL uses including law enforcement.


Now the Rome statue of the international criminal court is in charge of enforcing the Hague accord, the Obama administration has re-established a working relationship with the court! In 2010 the Rome statue rewrote the rules of the Hague accords; it was illegal to use expanding bullets in international conflicts only! But in 2010 they made it illegal to use expanding ammunition in “conflicts” NOT of an international character!

Snip;The Conference also adopted a resolution by which it amended article 8 of the Rome Statute to bring under the jurisdiction of the Court the war crime of employing certain poisonous weapons and expanding bullets, asphyxiating or poisonous gases, and all analogous liquids, materials and devices, when committed in armed conflicts not of an international character


[link to www.kampala.icc-cpi.info]

The UN definition for conflict is, well conflicting. We should want nothing to do with it. They can label just about any internal disagreement a conflict with a short resolution if they reasonably believe it may lead to domestic disturbances in the future.





Now here it is in the arms trade treaty, making it illegal to produce expanding ammunition domestically under the auspice that the ammunition may be illegally used in “conflicts”.




A/62/278 (Part II)

12. The following global multilateral legally binding instruments and political
commitments should be taken into account in the discussions related to the structure
and content of a possible legally binding instrument related to the trade in
conventional arms, in small arms and light weapons and in ammunition for small
arms and light weapons:
• The Charter of the United Nations;
• Relevant resolutions adopted by the United Nations Security Council and by
the United Nations General Assembly on the issue;
• The Convention on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Certain
Conventional Weapons which May be Deemed to be Excessively Injurious or
to Have Indiscriminate Effects, as well as its associated Protocols;

• The Convention on the Prohibition of the Use, Stockpiling, Production and
Transfer of Anti-Personnel Mines and on their Destruction;
• The Protocol against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms,
their Parts and Components and Ammunition, supplementing the United
Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime;
• The United Nations Register of Conventional Arms;
• The 1996 United Nations Disarmament Commission Guidelines for
International Arms Transfers;
• The Programme of Action to Prevent, Combat and Eradicate the Illicit Trade in
Small Arms and Light Weapons in All its Aspects;
• The International Instrument to Enable States to Identify and Trace, in a
Timely and Reliable Manner, Illicit Small Arms and Light Weapons.


26. Another fundamental aspect is the need to ensure universalization of the
instrument, in particular as regards participation by all significant arms producers
and exporters, in order to avoid the possibility that the instrument limit itself to
shifting global patterns of the trade in conventional arms, in small arms and light
weapons and in ammunition for small arms and light weapons in favour of States
that are not subject to its provisions.
This issue must thus be taken into account in
the discussions on the mechanism for the international entry into force of the
instrument. In parallel, ways to encourage prompt universalization of the instrument
should also be considered.


Fixed the link, part II [link to www.un.org]

Now most likely we will not ratify the ATT, but that does not mean we will not attempt to comply with these rules. In fact we know the administration is fully trying to comply with the ATT without signing it.

I have spent the last 10 hours reading treaties, well over 5000 pages now. They are very close to binding the U.S. in to this ammunition production ban. I suspect we will still be able to get hunting rounds just like in the UK, but they are going to attempt to execute severe laws including international laws to stop you from using expanding ammunition.

I remember when they tried to take our hollow points back in 92-93 and 94. It was a hard fight and it was very close. If they succeed in doing this we will have no recourse to repeal this ban. The real goal is to put it out side of U.S. courts hands.
We have a shot to stop this “no pun intended” but we must be vigilant.



Good luck.

Last Edited by Chrit on 04/02/2013 10:46 AM
I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw.

We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three.
11:11

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01/08/2013 07:09 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
I have a drill bit if ya ever need to borrow one .
Chrit (OP)

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01/08/2013 07:10 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
Here is a 1997 argument on why cops should not even carry hollow points.


Snip;The standard arguments for using hollow-point bullets are not convincing. Supporters believe that the bullets can stop criminals before they reach for their guns. But even bullets inflicting severe or mortal wounds will not necessarily bring down suspects instantly. Nor will more lethal bullets necessarily reduce the number of bullets fired. About 80 percent of the shots fired by police in shootouts miss their targets entirely. Accuracy is perhaps more of a problem than having to shoot a suspect multiple times to bring him down.




Realy?


[link to www.nytimes.com]
I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw.

We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three.
ar-15 nut

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01/08/2013 07:11 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
Cali is trying to make them report sales of ammo to the justice dept.Bill introduced anyway.
A pissed off American veteran!
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2013 07:14 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
hollowpoints are used by law enforcement in many places worldwide.


every police sidearm in australia is loaded with them.
Chrit (OP)

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01/08/2013 07:21 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
Cali is trying to make them report sales of ammo to the justice dept.Bill introduced anyway.
 Quoting: ar-15 nut


San fran is trying also on a local level.



New jersey just lifted it's ban last year.

The warning is if they get the international criminal court treaty ratified it is over.

I see the writing on the wall.

Last Edited by Chrit on 01/08/2013 07:38 PM
I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw.

We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three.
Desert FoxModerator
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01/08/2013 07:24 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
bump
TOMABANEFOX
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01/08/2013 07:36 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
MUST mean DHS is FIRST on the list right ?

Oh, thats right; they NEVER arrest, or TRY to take away the criminals guns first ! ONLY the gullible sheeple !
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2013 07:37 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
bump
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2013 07:41 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
Cali is trying to make them report sales of ammo to the justice dept.Bill introduced anyway.
 Quoting: ar-15 nut


San fran is trying also on a local level.



New jersey just lifted it's ban last year.

The warning is if they get the international criminal court treaty ratified it is over.

I see the writing on the wall.
 Quoting: Chrit


I see it coming to
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2013 07:45 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
I am not one to advocate violence by any means, though I do see it as an option to Americans that find themselves attempting to stave off life-threats in their own homes to themselves, to their wives and to their children.

The corrupt scumbags that have weaseled their way into the halls of power will most likely disarm the general public and it sounds like that will be sooner rather than later.

Never forget, should you find youself in need of weapons to protect yours under these circumstances above all, that no matter what they come at you with, It all burns! Until they outlaw and take from us the ability to create fire, it may someday allow you to save youself. Use it.
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2013 07:47 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
Nothing a drill press will not fix
Chrit (OP)

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01/08/2013 07:58 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
hollowpoints are used by law enforcement in many places worldwide.


every police sidearm in australia is loaded with them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25236300



Yep, a FMJ 9mm will go right through a person with a lot less damage, have to use hollow points.

Last thing you need to do is shoot at a perpetrator miss and shoot someone through their wall 100 yards away instead.

Most gun ranges will not let you use full metal jacket either, damages the back stop and lot higher ricochet hazards.


My Mosin will shoot through 1/2 inch of steel with a full metal jacket; you bet they will redefine armor piercing rounds once they get the manufacturing ban passed for expanding ammo.



Last Edited by Chrit on 01/08/2013 08:11 PM
I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw.

We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three.
Travis Bickle
Vigilantes need love too....

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01/08/2013 08:45 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
Quite an interesting hypothesis on the mass purchases by DHS, Social Security Etc. I think you're on to something with this Chrit.

Though I find it hard to believe that they would attempt to restrict the hollow points from Law Enforcement. Especially considering the the bulk purchases were made by L.E. Agencies around the nation.

Though I could see them trying to ban the sale on the open market, which would be pretty hard for them to get accomplished. (It'd be like the numerous "banned" firearms and ammunition such as armor piercing rounds and such which are still floating around the country despite the restrictions).

I could also see limits placed on ammo purchases in addition to the ban of HP ammo.

Great info.... Keep up the good work!
One of these days... A *REAL* rain is gonna come and wash all this scum off the streets.
Sleeping Giant
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01/08/2013 09:28 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
bump
"And I know that when I leave savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard. We are not the wolves at the gate, we are the ones who face them."

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matthew 10:22

Wake up, oh sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2013 09:40 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
I have a drill bit if ya ever need to borrow one .
 Quoting: 11:11


lmao... this
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2013 09:42 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
Whats a Hollow Point?






Idol1
Jericho9

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01/08/2013 09:44 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
bump
 Quoting: Desert Fox


Desert Fox, Sonic Doom, Sleeping Giant...like me drawn to the same like-minded threads. Hope all is well brothers!

Last Edited by Jericho9 on 01/08/2013 09:45 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
10 rounds of 9mm ball ammo...uh, no thanks. Time to switch over to 45ACP
SilverPatriot

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01/08/2013 09:48 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
What I fail to understand is how the leftists have allowed themselves to be so deluded into following along with caregivers that they will protect their dependent backsides.

Have these people learned nothing from small disaster events such as Hurricane Sandy after being herded from their assigned local shelters to tents that were unheated for days.

The victims of flooding were held there and not allowed to come and go as they pleased yet they somehow hold onto the delusion that the government cares.
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01/08/2013 09:49 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
the daily caller.com
the big list of who hates guns

Most of the organizations on the list are government agencies and unions. I didn't know unions held that much power.

AARP
AFL-CIO
Ambulatory Pediatric Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Civil Liberties Union
American Academy of Ambulatory Care Nursing
American Medical Women`s Association
American Medical Student Association
American Medical Association
American Association for the Surgery of Trauma
American Trauma Society
American Federation of Teachers
American Association of School Administrators
American Alliance for Rights and Responsibilities
American Medical Association
American Bar Association
American Counseling Association
American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Association for World Health

this is just a small sample
Chrit (OP)

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01/08/2013 09:50 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
Thx for the pin!

hf

I have been sitting on this info a while.

Was waiting for phase one to start and it looks it has after todays news, now phase two is on its way.

5000+ pages of treaty’s today word for word, too much info in my head right now. The implications are greater than I can convey.


Divider

Last Edited by Chrit on 01/08/2013 10:01 PM
I'm only human, it's my biggest flaw.

We must all realize a sink a chair and a pillow are all luxuries of home and a soldiers helmet takes the place of all three.
Sledster
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01/08/2013 09:54 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
I have a drill bit if ya ever need to borrow one .
 Quoting: 11:11


Good way to a ten year sentance in a federal "fuck-you-in-the-ass" facility.

If you modify a conventional bullet you may, depending on the state, be in deep shit if you use it.

Dont do it. Just buy as much hollow point as you can get your hands on.
I'm tired of waiting, somebody push the damn button already!

Please ignore the German flag, I am an American.

Keep your 72 virgins, give me one old biker chick.
Sleeping Giant
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01/08/2013 09:56 PM

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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
bump
 Quoting: Desert Fox


Desert Fox, Sonic Doom, Sleeping Giant...like me drawn to the same like-minded threads. Hope all is well brothers!
 Quoting: Jericho9


cheers
"And I know that when I leave savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard. We are not the wolves at the gate, we are the ones who face them."

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Matthew 10:22

Wake up, oh sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2013 10:03 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
The debate about guns is more about the phrase "we the people". Is the US still run by the citizens in its union or is it run by elitist who somehow stole it right under our noses. If it is still run by the people for the people, then gun rights should be undeniable as well as the ability to form a militia if needed. If we no longer run our country then you will see gun laws go in effect and more rights taking away. The next few years will show us alot about the direction of the country. If we indeed lost control of the country and no longer have a right to defend it against foreign and domestic threats then we are faced with the decision of how to respond. Do we become complete sheep to the globalist, or do we realize that there is power in numbers and without the people the globalists are nothing. I guess time will tell.
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01/08/2013 10:08 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
They won't be 'hollow' after they catch them! rockon
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01/08/2013 10:26 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
International law does not count in my county!
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2013 10:39 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
hollowpoints are used by law enforcement in many places worldwide.


every police sidearm in australia is loaded with them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25236300



Yep, a FMJ 9mm will go right through a person with a lot less damage, have to use hollow points.

Last thing you need to do is shoot at a perpetrator miss and shoot someone through their wall 100 yards away instead.

Most gun ranges will not let you use full metal jacket either, damages the back stop and lot higher ricochet hazards.


My Mosin will shoot through 1/2 inch of steel with a full metal jacket; you bet they will redefine armor piercing rounds once they get the manufacturing ban passed for expanding ammo.


 Quoting: Chrit


i have been shooting 15 years and various ranges, FMJ is allowed. Steel core ammo is no, or steel cased ammo (because they can't reload it), and few other exceptions. But standard 9mm FMJ is no issue, at the ranges i have been to, and that has been alot over the years. most standard rifle rounds are also allowed

lucky we have the largest outdoor shooting park in the country now in NV, anything is allowed from .50bmg, to miniguns...seen one once at the range, lucky bastard.
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2013 10:42 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
The debate about guns is more about the phrase "we the people". Is the US still run by the citizens in its union or is it run by elitist who somehow stole it right under our noses. If it is still run by the people for the people, then gun rights should be undeniable as well as the ability to form a militia if needed. If we no longer run our country then you will see gun laws go in effect and more rights taking away. The next few years will show us alot about the direction of the country. If we indeed lost control of the country and no longer have a right to defend it against foreign and domestic threats then we are faced with the decision of how to respond. Do we become complete sheep to the globalist, or do we realize that there is power in numbers and without the people the globalists are nothing. I guess time will tell.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 11922974


This is a great point and as far as I have been educated, yes, the way this nation was set up and the way it should be! But here is an interesting question.

Most of the men I run into and all of the ladies, (I am not sexist, I swear) know very little to nothing of what their "elected" official do, or even who the heck they even are! The only issues that seem to matter to ANY of the people I deal with are abortion, gay rights/marriage, and what kind of wireless crap they can buy and stick in their kid's hands. I am a freak because I can discuss things I saw on C-Span or on the websites of the US Congress or Senate!

Now, if a majority of the people in any given country stop giving a fuck or taking the time to give a shit on how the country is run, can it not be argued that these people are no longer FIT to have a say in how their country is run? Yes, I know your average GLP'er is far more educated, involved and informed than clowns like this, but if the vast majority are this damned STUPID and lazy, do they even DESERVE a voice? Interested in what you have to say.
sodbust

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01/08/2013 11:01 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
Whats a Hollow Point?


A hollow point bullet is one with a hole drilled or cast into the center so on impack it expands 2 or 3 fold to make a larger hole.. Some are cut so the bullet will split up and go in 3,,,4 ,,5 or 6 directions to make more damage once inside..

Not a nice sight,, but important for a fast humane kill when hunting,.,



Idol1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29633615

Dream big,, its ones only chance
allisaTX

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01/08/2013 11:17 PM
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Re: The next step in gun control, they coming after our hollow points with international laws. (update page 3 half way down)
Cali is trying to make them report sales of ammo to the justice dept.Bill introduced anyway.
 Quoting: ar-15 nut


San fran is trying also on a local level.



New jersey just lifted it's ban last year.

The warning is if they get the international criminal court treaty ratified it is over.

I see the writing on the wall.
 Quoting: Chrit


I'm kind of out of my league here, but I seem not need to get this since I am starting to understand how important the 2nd amendment is considering the history I have recently learned. I did not know that past tyrants disarmed their citizens before genocide.

So in other words, the US is stockpiling to use hollow points for threats on an international level, and they will comply with this treaty, but will still have a large stash of hollow points, however they will be banned by the UN, therefore they will not use them on their citizens? Isn't that a good thing?

Or is the fear that the gun owner trying to protect his family will be outgunned because they will possibly use them anyway.

Thanks....
hf

Last Edited by allisaTX on 01/08/2013 11:20 PM

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