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Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31826519
United States
01/09/2013 11:07 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
I pretty much have, minus the income taxes and other taxes I still pay.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31757987


rofail!
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 11:14 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
You can "do" whatever you want, but they will either ignore you or make your life unbearable.

You have to understand that "America" is no longer under the Constitutional Republic founded in 1776.

America was invaded and overthrown by European bankers who now own and run "America" as the corporate "United States."

So, all of us are really living in an occupied country where the invaders ARE A DICTATORSHIP by proxy who allows us the scant illusion of "freedom and democracy."

It's all bullshit, though.

I wrote a letter to the State Department expressing my wishes and, after some prodding, they sent a reply that I am NOT allows to renounce my citizenship while in the "US" and that I AM A SUBJECT (a subject, mind you.... only kings have subjects) of the "STATE" where I was born. They say I was born in the "U.S." but their definition of "U.S." only includes D.C. and U.S. Territories - NOT the several states - so I am, by their own definition NOT a subject of the U.S.

However, they will operated as if I (and you all) am a SUBJECT, when in fact we are NOT by informed consent...

Hence, we are victims of an invading foreign enemy who simply use the original STRUCTURE of the American government as a proxy.

There is a lot of info out there if you look it up. Most of it is in plain sight in government libraries.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 30670070
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01/09/2013 11:14 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
Hmmm... you have to travel out of the US to renounce citizenship at a diplomatic post.

Then there is a $450.00 fee.

And a 3 to 6 month waiting period.

Nutjob: I wanna renounce my fuckin' citizenship to the fascist evil United States.

Clerk: That will be four hundred and fifty dollars, and your appointment to renounce your citizenship will be scheduled six months from now. Have a nice day.

blink
 Quoting: goodmockingbird


Does that even apply to citizens by birth? We never took any oath to those guys (unless we're military or took an oath for some other particular reason.)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 30670070
United States
01/09/2013 11:23 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
You can "do" whatever you want, but they will either ignore you or make your life unbearable.

You have to understand that "America" is no longer under the Constitutional Republic founded in 1776.

America was invaded and overthrown by European bankers who now own and run "America" as the corporate "United States."

So, all of us are really living in an occupied country where the invaders ARE A DICTATORSHIP by proxy who allows us the scant illusion of "freedom and democracy."

It's all bullshit, though.

I wrote a letter to the State Department expressing my wishes and, after some prodding, they sent a reply that I am NOT allows to renounce my citizenship while in the "US" and that I AM A SUBJECT (a subject, mind you.... only kings have subjects) of the "STATE" where I was born. They say I was born in the "U.S." but their definition of "U.S." only includes D.C. and U.S. Territories - NOT the several states - so I am, by their own definition NOT a subject of the U.S.

However, they will operated as if I (and you all) am a SUBJECT, when in fact we are NOT by informed consent...

Hence, we are victims of an invading foreign enemy who simply use the original STRUCTURE of the American government as a proxy.

There is a lot of info out there if you look it up. Most of it is in plain sight in government libraries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31826519

Very interesting. So I am a subject of a state I no longer live in, that I don't file taxes or any other correspondence with.

If I am a subject of that state, surely the state provides me some sort of protection or other benefit, otherwise I should renounce my subject-hood!

Where do I apply to renounce my subject-hood, the state capitol?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 8254811
United States
01/09/2013 11:25 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
A freeman lives by common law, you can legally withdraw AND maintain a person at the same time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31820656


A joyful fantasy with no basis in fact.
Central governments in general, and the US Federal government in particular, asserts that it owns your body, mind, soul, income, property, and children.

Your failure to acknowledge this will result in your imprisonment and/or death.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31826519
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01/09/2013 11:27 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
You can "do" whatever you want, but they will either ignore you or make your life unbearable.

You have to understand that "America" is no longer under the Constitutional Republic founded in 1776.

America was invaded and overthrown by European bankers who now own and run "America" as the corporate "United States."

So, all of us are really living in an occupied country where the invaders ARE A DICTATORSHIP by proxy who allows us the scant illusion of "freedom and democracy."

It's all bullshit, though.

I wrote a letter to the State Department expressing my wishes and, after some prodding, they sent a reply that I am NOT allows to renounce my citizenship while in the "US" and that I AM A SUBJECT (a subject, mind you.... only kings have subjects) of the "STATE" where I was born. They say I was born in the "U.S." but their definition of "U.S." only includes D.C. and U.S. Territories - NOT the several states - so I am, by their own definition NOT a subject of the U.S.

However, they will operated as if I (and you all) am a SUBJECT, when in fact we are NOT by informed consent...

Hence, we are victims of an invading foreign enemy who simply use the original STRUCTURE of the American government as a proxy.

There is a lot of info out there if you look it up. Most of it is in plain sight in government libraries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31826519

Very interesting. So I am a subject of a state I no longer live in, that I don't file taxes or any other correspondence with.

If I am a subject of that state, surely the state provides me some sort of protection or other benefit, otherwise I should renounce my subject-hood!

Where do I apply to renounce my subject-hood, the state capitol?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30670070


It seems that the "federal" government does not recognize the several states. In fact is is very hard to find them references in any federal law. They simply operate as if everybody "knows" that they have jurisdiction in the U.S. when in fact they do not.

Once you start reading the actual laws and definitions, your mind will be blown.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31826519
United States
01/09/2013 11:30 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
I forgot to add that "STATE" in their definition refers only to the corporate U.S.. The Several States are basically ignored and all laws apply only to the U.S. (Wash DC) and US "Territory" which is Guam, Puerto Rico, a;; bases, etc... but NOT NOT NOT any of the several states.

It's really weird.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
01/09/2013 11:31 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
Anyone know anything about this?
 Quoting: El Quisqueyano


Move to Canada and bring the guns, and the blondes thats how
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31826519
United States
01/09/2013 11:33 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
A freeman lives by common law, you can legally withdraw AND maintain a person at the same time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31820656


A joyful fantasy with no basis in fact.
Central governments in general, and the US Federal government in particular, asserts that it owns your body, mind, soul, income, property, and children.

Your failure to acknowledge this will result in your imprisonment and/or death.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8254811


This is pretty close to the truth despite ZERO basis in actual codified law... unless you really stretch.

Basically, a person with a birth certificate become a US "vessel" that is then subject to US "law" as a "Territory."

A person with no paperwork, living in one of the several states is in fact foreign to the "United States."

You can read it all in official gvmnt books.
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 736749
United States
01/09/2013 11:36 AM

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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
Hmmm... you have to travel out of the US to renounce citizenship at a diplomatic post.

Then there is a $450.00 fee.

And a 3 to 6 month waiting period.

Nutjob: I wanna renounce my fuckin' citizenship to the fascist evil United States.

Clerk: That will be four hundred and fifty dollars, and your appointment to renounce your citizenship will be scheduled six months from now. Have a nice day.

blink
 Quoting: goodmockingbird


Are you guys talking about Renouncing Citizenship, or Soveriegn Citizenship?

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 01/09/2013 11:52 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31827603
United States
01/09/2013 11:43 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
You can "do" whatever you want, but they will either ignore you or make your life unbearable.

You have to understand that "America" is no longer under the Constitutional Republic founded in 1776.

America was invaded and overthrown by European bankers who now own and run "America" as the corporate "United States."

So, all of us are really living in an occupied country where the invaders ARE A DICTATORSHIP by proxy who allows us the scant illusion of "freedom and democracy."

It's all bullshit, though.

I wrote a letter to the State Department expressing my wishes and, after some prodding, they sent a reply that I am NOT allows to renounce my citizenship while in the "US" and that I AM A SUBJECT (a subject, mind you.... only kings have subjects) of the "STATE" where I was born. They say I was born in the "U.S." but their definition of "U.S." only includes D.C. and U.S. Territories - NOT the several states - so I am, by their own definition NOT a subject of the U.S.

However, they will operated as if I (and you all) am a SUBJECT, when in fact we are NOT by informed consent...

Hence, we are victims of an invading foreign enemy who simply use the original STRUCTURE of the American government as a proxy.

There is a lot of info out there if you look it up. Most of it is in plain sight in government libraries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31826519

Very interesting. So I am a subject of a state I no longer live in, that I don't file taxes or any other correspondence with.

If I am a subject of that state, surely the state provides me some sort of protection or other benefit, otherwise I should renounce my subject-hood!

Where do I apply to renounce my subject-hood, the state capitol?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30670070


i was born in a commonwealth but have not resided there for most of my life. i wonder how that works.. although compared to the commonwealth states i love the state i live in now. it is not about states but about birthright(S).what of all of us who were born on military basses in the US too. so many questions and i bet even a constitutional attorney could not answer.i wished i could live under our original government too
Hales
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01/09/2013 11:50 AM

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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
*

Last Edited by Hales on 04/05/2013 11:44 PM
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

User ID: 736749
United States
01/09/2013 11:51 AM

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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
Hmmm... you have to travel out of the US to renounce citizenship at a diplomatic post.

Then there is a $450.00 fee.

And a 3 to 6 month waiting period.

Nutjob: I wanna renounce my fuckin' citizenship to the fascist evil United States.

Clerk: That will be four hundred and fifty dollars, and your appointment to renounce your citizenship will be scheduled six months from now. Have a nice day.

blink
 Quoting: goodmockingbird


Are you guys talking about Renouncing Citizenship, or Soveriegn Citizenship?
 Quoting: Saddletramp


Because there are prescribed methods for both, but they are quite different...

Sovereign Citizenship is a major pain in the ass, and pretty much impossible to do if you plan to do business in the USA, drive on City, County, State, or Federal Highways, or have a job, etc.

If you're going to Renounce your citizenship, you better find a new country, because they may well tell you to leave the USA...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 01/09/2013 11:56 AM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31383418
United States
01/09/2013 11:53 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
A freeman lives by common law, you can legally withdraw AND maintain a person at the same time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31820656


A joyful fantasy with no basis in fact.
Central governments in general, and the US Federal government in particular, asserts that it owns your body, mind, soul, income, property, and children.

Your failure to acknowledge this will result in your imprisonment and/or death.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8254811

haha...no- the real fantasy is the fedgov & all their paper games.

youve been punked, sucka
Ralph--a house dog

User ID: 25802009
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01/09/2013 11:54 AM

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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
You can "do" whatever you want, but they will either ignore you or make your life unbearable.

You have to understand that "America" is no longer under the Constitutional Republic founded in 1776.

America was invaded and overthrown by European bankers who now own and run "America" as the corporate "United States."

So, all of us are really living in an occupied country where the invaders ARE A DICTATORSHIP by proxy who allows us the scant illusion of "freedom and democracy."

It's all bullshit, though.

I wrote a letter to the State Department expressing my wishes and, after some prodding, they sent a reply that I am NOT allows to renounce my citizenship while in the "US" and that I AM A SUBJECT (a subject, mind you.... only kings have subjects) of the "STATE" where I was born. They say I was born in the "U.S." but their definition of "U.S." only includes D.C. and U.S. Territories - NOT the several states - so I am, by their own definition NOT a subject of the U.S.

However, they will operated as if I (and you all) am a SUBJECT, when in fact we are NOT by informed consent...

Hence, we are victims of an invading foreign enemy who simply use the original STRUCTURE of the American government as a proxy.

There is a lot of info out there if you look it up. Most of it is in plain sight in government libraries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31826519


This is true. Look up SOVEREIGN CITIZEN. Lots of info on this perfectly legal concept which lands you in a bunch of hot water if you try it. But there are reports of people actually doing it; not sure how well this turns out.
"Who decides?"
---Robert A. Heinlein

[link to www.westcoasttruth.com]

"Do Not Go Gentle into that Good Night.....Rage, rage against the dying of the light"
----Dylan Thomas
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 11:56 AM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
You dont have to be so blatant in asserting your independence.

Of course they have made it near impossible. but... there is another way.

If they refuse to let you go, stay and make them pay dearly. You can always make your captors pay more to keep you in the system. Make your enslavemment a losing proposition.

PLAY the system. keep in mind and even keep a log, always take more from them than they take from you.
SunnyDaze

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01/09/2013 11:58 AM

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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
Renounce the citizenship. Then come back as an illegal, you will be set for life then. If it is a game, use their own rules against them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1219974


this is very good logic IMO ... I have been USING the system, all my life - instead of letting it use me ... as long as I "qualify" why not?
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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01/09/2013 11:59 AM

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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
You can "do" whatever you want, but they will either ignore you or make your life unbearable.

You have to understand that "America" is no longer under the Constitutional Republic founded in 1776.

America was invaded and overthrown by European bankers who now own and run "America" as the corporate "United States."

So, all of us are really living in an occupied country where the invaders ARE A DICTATORSHIP by proxy who allows us the scant illusion of "freedom and democracy."

It's all bullshit, though.

I wrote a letter to the State Department expressing my wishes and, after some prodding, they sent a reply that I am NOT allows to renounce my citizenship while in the "US" and that I AM A SUBJECT (a subject, mind you.... only kings have subjects) of the "STATE" where I was born. They say I was born in the "U.S." but their definition of "U.S." only includes D.C. and U.S. Territories - NOT the several states - so I am, by their own definition NOT a subject of the U.S.

However, they will operated as if I (and you all) am a SUBJECT, when in fact we are NOT by informed consent...

Hence, we are victims of an invading foreign enemy who simply use the original STRUCTURE of the American government as a proxy.

There is a lot of info out there if you look it up. Most of it is in plain sight in government libraries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31826519


This is true. Look up SOVEREIGN CITIZEN. Lots of info on this perfectly legal concept which lands you in a bunch of hot water if you try it. But there are reports of people actually doing it; not sure how well this turns out.
 Quoting: Ralph--a house dog


No you're right, there's plenty of legal precedent for Sovereign Citizen, we operate under the principals of British Maritime Law, so it's possible to legally do this. But then you lose access to banking, doing business for anything other than cash, driving, etc, etc.

It's a nightmare...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 01/09/2013 12:00 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 12:03 PM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
When was your consent given in the first place?
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 12:10 PM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
govern = control
mente = mind

Probable stop being mind controlled any time you wish.
Like most things, just stop.
Ralph--a house dog

User ID: 25802009
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01/09/2013 12:12 PM

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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
You can "do" whatever you want, but they will either ignore you or make your life unbearable.

You have to understand that "America" is no longer under the Constitutional Republic founded in 1776.

America was invaded and overthrown by European bankers who now own and run "America" as the corporate "United States."

So, all of us are really living in an occupied country where the invaders ARE A DICTATORSHIP by proxy who allows us the scant illusion of "freedom and democracy."

It's all bullshit, though.

I wrote a letter to the State Department expressing my wishes and, after some prodding, they sent a reply that I am NOT allows to renounce my citizenship while in the "US" and that I AM A SUBJECT (a subject, mind you.... only kings have subjects) of the "STATE" where I was born. They say I was born in the "U.S." but their definition of "U.S." only includes D.C. and U.S. Territories - NOT the several states - so I am, by their own definition NOT a subject of the U.S.

However, they will operated as if I (and you all) am a SUBJECT, when in fact we are NOT by informed consent...

Hence, we are victims of an invading foreign enemy who simply use the original STRUCTURE of the American government as a proxy.

There is a lot of info out there if you look it up. Most of it is in plain sight in government libraries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31826519


This is true. Look up SOVEREIGN CITIZEN. Lots of info on this perfectly legal concept which lands you in a bunch of hot water if you try it. But there are reports of people actually doing it; not sure how well this turns out.
 Quoting: Ralph--a house dog


The FBI will consider you a 'domestic terrorist' if you do the things those in the sovereign citizens movement do. Read this link --notice they don't claim that the sovereign citizen stuff is illegal but they say some of the people do other illegal things and need to be watched.

[link to www.fbi.gov]
"Who decides?"
---Robert A. Heinlein

[link to www.westcoasttruth.com]

"Do Not Go Gentle into that Good Night.....Rage, rage against the dying of the light"
----Dylan Thomas
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 12:17 PM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
Freeman lives.



[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 12:17 PM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
OP- You want to look into "Natural Person"

[link to www.natural-person.ca]

(that site focuses on Canada but somethings it references applies to the USA.)

I also reccomend watching the documentary "Ungrip" by Ben Anderson.

Natural person= a living soul a human being an artificial person is your name which reprsents an entity hence why all official documents bills, credit cards, statements, documents, government cards all have your name in ALL CAPS.

So the government tricks us into being the officer of the corporation and thus rules over us.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
01/09/2013 12:40 PM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
You can "do" whatever you want, but they will either ignore you or make your life unbearable.

You have to understand that "America" is no longer under the Constitutional Republic founded in 1776.

America was invaded and overthrown by European bankers who now own and run "America" as the corporate "United States."

So, all of us are really living in an occupied country where the invaders ARE A DICTATORSHIP by proxy who allows us the scant illusion of "freedom and democracy."

It's all bullshit, though.

I wrote a letter to the State Department expressing my wishes and, after some prodding, they sent a reply that I am NOT allows to renounce my citizenship while in the "US" and that I AM A SUBJECT (a subject, mind you.... only kings have subjects) of the "STATE" where I was born. They say I was born in the "U.S." but their definition of "U.S." only includes D.C. and U.S. Territories - NOT the several states - so I am, by their own definition NOT a subject of the U.S.

However, they will operated as if I (and you all) am a SUBJECT, when in fact we are NOT by informed consent...

Hence, we are victims of an invading foreign enemy who simply use the original STRUCTURE of the American government as a proxy.

There is a lot of info out there if you look it up. Most of it is in plain sight in government libraries.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31826519


This is true. Look up SOVEREIGN CITIZEN. Lots of info on this perfectly legal concept which lands you in a bunch of hot water if you try it. But there are reports of people actually doing it; not sure how well this turns out.
 Quoting: Ralph--a house dog


The FBI will consider you a 'domestic terrorist' if you do the things those in the sovereign citizens movement do. Read this link --notice they don't claim that the sovereign citizen stuff is illegal but they say some of the people do other illegal things and need to be watched.

[link to www.fbi.gov]
 Quoting: Ralph--a house dog

indeed, comply or they initiate violence against you.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 12:46 PM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
I disowned the government a long time ago because they continue to put financial greed and lust for power before the American people not to mention the way they run around the world bending over backwards to help people that don't like us.

Let me make this simple to understand. FUCK THE US GOVERNMENT AND THE ROYAL HORSES THEY ROAD IN ON.YOU DON'T OWE THEM A DAMN THING AND THEY SHOULD BE THANKFUL WE HAVEN'T DRIVEN THEIR TREASONOUS ASSES OUT ON THE END OF A PITCHFORK FOR ALL THE CRAP THEY'VE PULLED.
Saddletramp
We Don't Rent Pigs...

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01/09/2013 12:47 PM

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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
We had a huge Freeman movement here in Texas, and in fact there are still some residual participants to the "Republic of Texas" movement, mainly in Tulia (that a weird fuckin' town), but then they started doing goofy shit like filing false liens with the Counties and false deeds, presiding over their own courts and convicting people in Absentia.

The Texas Rangers eventually shot and killed the leader of the movement , the self-styled President of Texas, in his trailer house down in Van Horn...

The Republic of Texas movement sortof drifted away after that...

go figure...

Last Edited by Saddletramp on 01/09/2013 01:41 PM
"And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods..." ~ Horatius

"Because he told the truth, and once you've heard the truth, everything else is just cheap whiskey..."
Hitndahedfred

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01/09/2013 01:14 PM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
OP,,

Look here for your answers.

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

Idol1
Each time a person stands for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he or she sends forth a tiny ripple of hope. And crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance. Few are willing to embrace the disapproval of their fellows, the censure of their colleagues, the wrath of their society. Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence. Yet it is the one essential vital quality for those who seek to change a world that yields most painfully to change. [Robert F. Kennedy]



[link to www.stricklychopped.com]

[link to www.ghi-engrs.com]
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 01:39 PM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
you consent when oyu sign something in your government name (don't have to use that) .. you can call yourself anything you want ... The government name is for the bonding of currency , commerce
En Sof

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01/09/2013 01:40 PM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
You can't withdraw or renounce from something which is already an illusory conception. You are YOUR OWN PERSON. You are NOT YOUR GOVERNMENT. You are NOT YOUR COUNTRY. You are NOT YOUR STATES JURISDICTION. It's rather quite simple, my friend. Be transformed by the renewing of your MIND.
Anonymous Coward
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01/09/2013 01:50 PM
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Re: Can an American citizen really "Withdraw Consent" from this government?
I did it...

News