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Sovereign Citizens in Court

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31370167
United States
01/12/2013 12:49 AM
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Sovereign Citizens in Court
I'm a lawyer and have seen some of these dumbass sovereign guys do their pro-se defense bullshit for crimes they're accused of. It's fucking hilarious and they always get their shit pushed in. Our local da even puts 3 month licensed baby prosecutors to humiliate them. Some of my buddies and I will even take time to sit in the pews and lol at the train wreck.

Just a word of advise. Don't be cheap. Hire a competent lawyer. Otherwise we'll just end up having drinks with the prosecutor who just fucked your life and will spend the night laughing at you.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 28177066
United States
01/12/2013 12:51 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
May the key on your Spam can be forever broken.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27346147
United States
01/12/2013 12:53 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
I hope all you lawyer scum rot in hell or decay at the bottom of the ocean skull_fing
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 31370167
United States
01/12/2013 12:58 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Sorry to break it to you bro, but we're one of those indispensable groups of people you may not like, but definitely need. If you haven't used a lawyer yer, you can look forward to the experience.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 31370167
United States
01/12/2013 01:02 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Besides, don't you nut jobs love Counselor Oily Taint?
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

User ID: 1152596
United States
01/12/2013 01:03 AM

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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Why don't you divulge the true meaning of being a member of the BAR? Why are most, if not all courts, ADMIRALTY COURTS?
Do you bring a checkbook with you to court? Do the "laws" you claim to uphold/enforce/use to protect your clients supersede our unalienable rights guaranteed by our creator?
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 31370167
United States
01/12/2013 01:12 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Why don't you divulge the true meaning of being a member of the BAR? Why are most, if not all courts, ADMIRALTY COURTS?
Do you bring a checkbook with you to court? Do the "laws" you claim to uphold/enforce/use to protect your clients supersede our unalienable rights guaranteed by our creator?
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


Only federal courts have jurisdiction over maritime disputes, so there's that.
As for your unalienable rights vs laws, as an intellectual exercise it might be cool to discuss, but in reality these "laws" have a big impact on your real life, like when you're facing jail time, or are being sued for a shit ton of money...so yeah, they're pretty important.
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

User ID: 1152596
United States
01/12/2013 01:20 AM

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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Why don't you divulge the true meaning of being a member of the BAR? Why are most, if not all courts, ADMIRALTY COURTS?
Do you bring a checkbook with you to court? Do the "laws" you claim to uphold/enforce/use to protect your clients supersede our unalienable rights guaranteed by our creator?
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


Only federal courts have jurisdiction over maritime disputes, so there's that.
As for your unalienable rights vs laws, as an intellectual exercise it might be cool to discuss, but in reality these "laws" have a big impact on your real life, like when you're facing jail time, or are being sued for a shit ton of money...so yeah, they're pretty important.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31370167


I appreciate your answers. Will you please expound on what being a member of the BAR signifies?

Here's a brief synopsis based on info. easily searchable:
"The owners who control the American BAR Association are a private corporation whose headquarters are located in England. BAR stands for British Accredited Registry. Attorneys at law are given the title of 'Esquire' through the BAR, a title meaning 'Shield Bearer'; they carry this shield for the 'Crown of the City of London'. Attorney: one who transfers or assigns property, rights, title and allegiance to the owner of the land."
[link to home.hiwaay.net]
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 31370167
United States
01/12/2013 01:30 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Why don't you divulge the true meaning of being a member of the BAR? Why are most, if not all courts, ADMIRALTY COURTS?
Do you bring a checkbook with you to court? Do the "laws" you claim to uphold/enforce/use to protect your clients supersede our unalienable rights guaranteed by our creator?
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


Only federal courts have jurisdiction over maritime disputes, so there's that.
As for your unalienable rights vs laws, as an intellectual exercise it might be cool to discuss, but in reality these "laws" have a big impact on your real life, like when you're facing jail time, or are being sued for a shit ton of money...so yeah, they're pretty important.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31370167


I appreciate your answers. Will you please expound on what being a member of the BAR signifies?

Here's a brief synopsis based on info. easily searchable:
"The owners who control the American BAR Association are a private corporation whose headquarters are located in England. BAR stands for British Accredited Registry. Attorneys at law are given the title of 'Esquire' through the BAR, a title meaning 'Shield Bearer'; they carry this shield for the 'Crown of the City of London'. Attorney: one who transfers or assigns property, rights, title and allegiance to the owner of the land."
[link to home.hiwaay.net]
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


The bar just means the legal profession. The article you linked to says that your theory is wrong.
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

User ID: 1152596
United States
01/12/2013 01:34 AM

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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Why don't you divulge the true meaning of being a member of the BAR? Why are most, if not all courts, ADMIRALTY COURTS?
Do you bring a checkbook with you to court? Do the "laws" you claim to uphold/enforce/use to protect your clients supersede our unalienable rights guaranteed by our creator?
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


Only federal courts have jurisdiction over maritime disputes, so there's that.
As for your unalienable rights vs laws, as an intellectual exercise it might be cool to discuss, but in reality these "laws" have a big impact on your real life, like when you're facing jail time, or are being sued for a shit ton of money...so yeah, they're pretty important.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31370167


I appreciate your answers. Will you please expound on what being a member of the BAR signifies?

Here's a brief synopsis based on info. easily searchable:
"The owners who control the American BAR Association are a private corporation whose headquarters are located in England. BAR stands for British Accredited Registry. Attorneys at law are given the title of 'Esquire' through the BAR, a title meaning 'Shield Bearer'; they carry this shield for the 'Crown of the City of London'. Attorney: one who transfers or assigns property, rights, title and allegiance to the owner of the land."
[link to home.hiwaay.net]
 Quoting: UseLess RepEATER


The bar just means the legal profession. The article you linked to says that your theory is wrong.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31370167


It's not my theory (and I know what the site claimed); that's why I wanted you to educate us since you are most likely a member of that club?
Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Wake up, or hit the snooze?
User ID: 31981380
Australia
01/12/2013 01:35 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Just a word of advise. Don't be cheap. Hire a competent lawyer. Otherwise we'll just end up having drinks with the prosecutor who just fucked your life and will spend the night laughing at you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31370167


I went to court for GTA, sacked my lawyer, and copped it on the chin.

I was fined $500 for stealing a brand new car.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31962852
United States
01/12/2013 01:38 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Just a word of advise. Don't be cheap. Hire a competent lawyer. Otherwise we'll just end up having drinks with the prosecutor who just fucked your life and will spend the night laughing at you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31370167


I went to court for GTA, sacked my lawyer, and copped it on the chin.

I was fined $500 for stealing a brand new car.
 Quoting: Wake up, or hit the snooze? 31981380


You did something right if all you got for stealing a car was a $500 fine. Over here you spend a little time in jail for that, if not prison.
UseLess RepEATER
Those who know the least obey the best: G.F.

User ID: 1152596
United States
01/12/2013 01:41 AM

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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
What would be your impressions of this material counselor?






Real Eyes, Realize, Real Lies
~U.R.~

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
~H. L. Mencken~

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
~Plato~

When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations,
the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.
~Dresden James~
Be a good citizen.
User ID: 31981380
Australia
01/12/2013 01:43 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Over here you spend a little time in jail for that, if not prison.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31962852


What the diff (jail/prison)?

Prob cause I was last for the day, and everyone else was giving lame-ass stories (mostly DUI's), and at one point even I nearly yelled out for them to shut up with all the BS.

I copped it, no excuses, and judge seemed too happy to almost let me off.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22176654
United States
01/12/2013 01:58 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
While i like the idea of sovereigns, it seems like a bad lifestyle choice. personally I have hired two lawyers, sure they were douches, but those douches got me off the hook. best money i ever spent
simultaneous_final

User ID: 31759745
United States
01/12/2013 01:58 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Hate to tell you, OP, but I walked straight out of arraignment by not entering a plea (contracting with the "court") five different times. The charges ranged from traffic "violations" to "drug possession". I literally walked right out. I had to wait until the other arraignments were finished but I WALKED RIGHT OUT. So quit bullshitting. Yes, I am a widow's son and I'm sure that didn't hurt. But you know as well as I that it's not some kind of guarantee.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22176654
United States
01/12/2013 02:01 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
how does that work?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22176654
United States
01/12/2013 02:01 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
is that real?
simultaneous_final

User ID: 31759745
United States
01/12/2013 02:08 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
how does that work?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22176654


Figure it out. If you can't, then you're at the mercy of your "masters".

If someone asks you if you understands your "charges", then say:

Am I CHARGED with (theft or whatever) ?
Why would you have me do that, robed one? I refuse!

A "charge" is a rightful ORDER.

For example,

You are charged with carrying out the obligations of your wedding vows.

Think about that.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22176654
United States
01/12/2013 02:12 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
I know a little bit about the sovereign movement but it just seems like that would catch on. By even showing up to the court are you not agreeing that they have the power to come grab you if you do not? not trying to antagonize just seems like everyone would do that if it worked.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22176654
United States
01/12/2013 02:14 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
I'm not trying to bash, it's just very confusing to me.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3064678
Canada
01/12/2013 02:39 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
I only follow and obey my Creator's laws and not his creations acts, statutes, codes or otherwise. So you can take your bullshit courts and your B.A.R and ram it up the queens twat.

If you take a lawyer, it tells the judge you are mentally incompedant to stand trial and therefore give up all rights and are basically at the mercy of the judge. I don't play those games I'm a real man, flesh and blood and tell the truth, something these kangaroo courts cannot and will not hear.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3064678
Canada
01/12/2013 02:41 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Incompetent, my bad. Ranting can cause grammatical errors, my apologies, for I am only human.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 22176654
United States
01/12/2013 02:51 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
word up sovereigns. I'll look into this shit, not planning on going to court anytime soon, but it sounds interesting.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31949842
Australia
01/12/2013 02:53 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
I'm a lawyer and have seen some of these dumbass sovereign guys do their pro-se defense bullshit for crimes they're accused of. It's fucking hilarious and they always get their shit pushed in. Our local da even puts 3 month licensed baby prosecutors to humiliate them. Some of my buddies and I will even take time to sit in the pews and lol at the train wreck.

Just a word of advise. Don't be cheap. Hire a competent lawyer. Otherwise we'll just end up having drinks with the prosecutor who just fucked your life and will spend the night laughing at you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31370167


spam

I was successful at self representation, even got the cops to atone for their lies.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31949842
Australia
01/12/2013 02:55 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
You have to be divinely inspired to be successful. I realise there's a lot of charlatans trying to do it, just as there are in the legal world, anywhere there's humans, there's charlatans and con artists, but I was divinely inspired as to what to say on my day in court, I was 22, had no experience of police or courts, and the words just came into my mind, the judge even had me checked for a wire. Awesome when it happens.
simultaneous_final

User ID: 31759745
United States
01/12/2013 03:07 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
I know a little bit about the sovereign movement but it just seems like that would catch on. By even showing up to the court are you not agreeing that they have the power to come grab you if you do not? not trying to antagonize just seems like everyone would do that if it worked.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22176654


Go ahead and show up. But show up as a a SOLIPSIST. You were invited so show up. But don't enter a plea. Only an idiot does that. As soon as you enter a plea you are CONTRACTING WITH TH COURT. Refuse to enter a plea. Make it known that you will not "contract with this or any court or jurisdiction". This is for violations, NOT ACTUAL CRIMES WITH DAMAGES.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
simultaneous_final

User ID: 31759745
United States
01/12/2013 03:08 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
I know a little bit about the sovereign movement but it just seems like that would catch on. By even showing up to the court are you not agreeing that they have the power to come grab you if you do not? not trying to antagonize just seems like everyone would do that if it worked.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 22176654


Go ahead and show up. But show up as a a SOLIPSIST. You were invited so show up. But don't enter a plea. Only an idiot does that. As soon as you enter a plea you are CONTRACTING WITH TH COURT. Refuse to enter a plea. Make it known that you will not "contract with this or any court or jurisdiction". This is for violations, NOT ACTUAL CRIMES WITH DAMAGES.
A subject observes itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself observing itself ad infinitum.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19202196
United States
01/12/2013 03:21 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
ugh what a piece of shit OP but at least you're an honest piece of shit.

your post made me angsty, but at least you have come to terms with being a sociopath.
MHz

User ID: 25505891
Canada
01/12/2013 03:55 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
Just a word of advise. Don't be cheap. Hire a competent lawyer. Otherwise we'll just end up having drinks with the prosecutor who just fucked your life and will spend the night laughing at you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 31370167

You do that anyway you dumb fuck.


(in part)
THE CROWN TEMPLE

The governmental and judicial systems within the United States of America, at both federal and local state levels, is owned by the “Crown,” which is a private foreign power. Before jumping to conclusions about the Queen of England or the Royal Families of Britain owning the U.S.A., this is a different “Crown” and is fully exposed and explained below. We are specifically referencing the established Templar Church, known for centuries by the world as the “Crown.” From this point on, we will also refer to the Crown as the Crown Temple or Crown Templar, all three being synonymous.

All licensed Bar Attorneys in the U.S. owe their allegiance and give their solemn oath in pledge to the Crown Temple, realizing this or not. This is simply due to the fact that all Bar Associations throughout the world are signatories and franchises to the international Bar Association located at the Inns of Court at Crown Temple, which are physically located at Chancery Lane behind Fleet Street in London. Although they vehemently deny it, all Bar Associations in the U.S., such as the American Bar Association, the Florida Bar, or California Bar Association, are franchises to the Crown.

The present Queen of England is not the “Crown,” as we have all been led to believe. Rather, it is the Bankers and Attorneys who are the actual Crown or Crown Temple. The Monarch aristocrats of England have not been ruling sovereigns since the reign of King John, circa 1215. All royal sovereignty of the old British Crown since that time has passed to the Crown Temple in Chancery.

The legal system (judiciary) of the U.S.A. is controlled by the Crown Temple from the independent and sovereign City of London. The private Federal Reserve System, which issues fiat U.S. Federal Reserve Notes, is financially owned and controlled by the Crown from Switzerland, the home and legal origin for the charters of the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund, the World Trade Organization, and most importantly, the Bank of International Settlements. Even Hitler respected his Crown bankers by not bombing Switzerland. The Bank of International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland controls all the central banks of the G7 nations. He who controls the gold rules the world.
[link to www.sodahead.com]

You use that method for shit like parking tickets, speeding tickets not a fucking murder charge.



BTW now such thing as this "a competent lawyer", there are just various degrees of incompetence.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 13967411
United States
01/12/2013 04:05 AM
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Re: Sovereign Citizens in Court
A real sovereign knows not to go to court. Its about declaration and if one admits to what he is. Lets face it no one has first hand knowledge who they are so the fraud does negate the consent. I would school you...