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Unschooling?

 
teacup
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User ID: 32093471
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01/13/2013 04:14 AM

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Unschooling?
What is this new fad that thinks the education system is evil?

I'm sending mine to school to be indoctrinated.
teacup (OP)

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Australia
01/13/2013 04:16 AM

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Re: Unschooling?
For those who haven't heard of it, its homeschooling. Except you don't teach your kids anything unless they show an interest and want to learn about it.

So they guide their own education.
teacup (OP)

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01/13/2013 04:19 AM

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Re: Unschooling?
bump
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
01/13/2013 06:47 AM
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Re: Unschooling?
Sounds fine unless they've already had any desire to learn killed in school, in which case they would do nothing but sit around playing video games all day.
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 09:17 PM
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Re: Unschooling?
unschooling is the only way to learn anything real!
WindyMind

User ID: 26518293
United States
02/06/2013 09:24 PM

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Re: Unschooling?
This is what my daughter said she is going to do.

I hate it.

What to do?

halbird2
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02/06/2013 09:28 PM
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Re: Unschooling?
For those who haven't heard of it, its homeschooling. Except you don't teach your kids anything unless they show an interest and want to learn about it.

So they guide their own education.
 Quoting: teacup


It works too!!

Kids are amazing.

Intentionally, one year, I didn't show my son how to ride his bike. I bought him the bike took off the training wheels and said here you go.

In two days he had figured it out and he was so proud of himself.

He still talks about how he taught himself to ride a bike, 3 years later.
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2013 09:50 PM
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Re: Unschooling?
I wish this thread would take off.

This topic hasn't been debated at all on GLP.

I would be interested to see what different people think of it.

Plus, I have 8 years experience with it so I can add personal insights.
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
02/06/2013 09:53 PM
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Re: Unschooling?
Homeschooling's been around, but I think in N.A. you still need to pass examinations and stuff to show that you are actually learning something.

As for the school system, it's over-crowded, teachers don't have the time to give individual attention to each students, school ends up being about blind memorizing of data instead of learning how to think.

A novel is also full of data, but if it sits on your desk by itself, it's just a pile of dead tree!
WindyMind

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02/07/2013 12:11 AM

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Re: Unschooling?
What is pro and con about no schooling?

Con
If a kid didn't want to learn to tie his shoes he could be a 10 year old that can't tie his shoes.

If a kid didn't want to learn to read, she would be illiterate.

A teacher is a faster way to learn, much faster than figuring it out yourself.

I am studying TV now, all the kid does is watch TV.

Pro
Freedom to do what you please.

No schedules to follow.

No stress from school, no bullying, no cafeteria food.

You can do whatever you want all day long.


I don't like public schools and I don't like no schooling because I think the kid will grow up to be an idiot.

Prove me wrong, how does it work?

halbird2
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02/07/2013 01:01 AM
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Re: Unschooling?
You have to be creative to 'unschool'.

I 'unschooled' two boys K-12. Both of them now thank me for doing so. Say they had a much better education than any of their public schooled friends.

One is an electrician (chose not to go to college).

Other is a Physics/engineering major.

What I did was 'listen' as the kids would discuss something - often from a show on tv (usually just educational tv, but sometimes old movies as well). Then I would pick a topic of interest and weave science, math, history, social studies, and reading into it.

We would often follow a broad subject for a week or two, making field trips (if plausible), library trips, whatever we could think of.

Some subjects would only last a day or two. But whatever it was, we followed it through the entire curriculum.

When we got to take vacations, they were also 'learning' trips. At least 1/3 of our trunk was educational materials.

My kids even learned from video games. Ex: One they were playing had a trebuchet as a weapon. So we studied how and where they were created, the mathmatics and physics of trajectory, and they even built one in our backyard and we would play 'math' games of figuring out where objects would land based on their size and shape.

When scouts had a soap box derby - we studied the history, then the math and engineering of axles and weight and balance. (They won, btw, because of their complete understanding of motion and balance)

To this day, my kids carry a copy of the constitution with them, and quite often quote from it to their friends.

It is NOT for everyone, but it is fun. It takes parents that are willing to change their patterns of thought to really listen and see what their kids want to learn. And then develop the creativity to make it fun and interesting on top of being educational.

AND, you have to teach yourself to be their parent and their teacher - not their friend - during this time of their life. I am lucky now, they have chosen to be our friends - our best friends.

Unfortunately, too many parents drop the ball, or just use it as an excuse not to teach their kids.
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
02/07/2013 01:03 AM
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Re: Unschooling?
learnings the devils work
cabbage_goddess

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02/07/2013 08:27 AM

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Re: Unschooling?
You have to be creative to 'unschool'.

I 'unschooled' two boys K-12. Both of them now thank me for doing so. Say they had a much better education than any of their public schooled friends.

One is an electrician (chose not to go to college).

Other is a Physics/engineering major.

What I did was 'listen' as the kids would discuss something - often from a show on tv (usually just educational tv, but sometimes old movies as well). Then I would pick a topic of interest and weave science, math, history, social studies, and reading into it.

We would often follow a broad subject for a week or two, making field trips (if plausible), library trips, whatever we could think of.

Some subjects would only last a day or two. But whatever it was, we followed it through the entire curriculum.

When we got to take vacations, they were also 'learning' trips. At least 1/3 of our trunk was educational materials.

My kids even learned from video games. Ex: One they were playing had a trebuchet as a weapon. So we studied how and where they were created, the mathmatics and physics of trajectory, and they even built one in our backyard and we would play 'math' games of figuring out where objects would land based on their size and shape.

When scouts had a soap box derby - we studied the history, then the math and engineering of axles and weight and balance. (They won, btw, because of their complete understanding of motion and balance)

To this day, my kids carry a copy of the constitution with them, and quite often quote from it to their friends.

It is NOT for everyone, but it is fun. It takes parents that are willing to change their patterns of thought to really listen and see what their kids want to learn. And then develop the creativity to make it fun and interesting on top of being educational.

AND, you have to teach yourself to be their parent and their teacher - not their friend - during this time of their life. I am lucky now, they have chosen to be our friends - our best friends.

Unfortunately, too many parents drop the ball, or just use it as an excuse not to teach their kids.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33782480


This is the best example of unschooling I've ever read because you took the time to give concrete examples and had long term results to offer from your experience.

We homeschool and I've tinkered with unschooling but I've alway been afraid my kids wouldn't "do" anything. They are one- (not schooling, obviously), four- and six-years-old.

The two oldest boys love Legos - which I realize is a great learning tool - my oldest especially has shown a great aptitude for building complicated structures that move and games that involve dice. Are you familiar with the Ninjago game series? He's assigned a complicated dice-move system for his own home-grown Ninjago game because before Christmas we were too cheap to buy him the real deal :) . His dad can play our son's version, he (my husband) says it's inadvertently similar to role-model play games, which he's familiar with, so like father, like son, I suppose.

My husband WAS an unschooler, despite going to public school. He's taught himself everything he needs to know for his job in computer engineering at one of the larger IT companies in the country, no college degree. He's been given worldwide recognition for his work and many promotions which have luckily enabled me to quit working and homeschool our children (tooting his horn a little; he says I never do, unfortunately he'll never see that I did!). So yes, it works! I'm just reticent :)

Right now we are going down the classical education path which is structured, but we don't use workbooks (math, excepting, though we do mix it up), and we emphasize reading, reading, reading. If they're doing a craft on Africa, I'm reading about it. We're plowing thorough different series of their choosing. First it was Henry Huggins, now it's the Little House series which will come in handy when the SHTF. I caught my eldest working ON HIS OWN BIDDING on art yesterday at 5 pm so I have hope that someday we might be able to unschool to some degree! I almost cried I was so happy, he's the one I have the hardest time with. My middle child is so curious, loves to learn, is artistic, intuitive, but mercurial. So they each have their issues (they're KIDS you know, lol) but my eldest...first grade has been difficult. And because of where we live he has to take a stupid "achievement" test next year and it has me needlessly worried. I am not going to stress this to him, just tell him it's a test, let him take a practice one through a bookseller that will supply and grade one and then have him do the real deal. We live in a tough homeschooling state, especially for someone whose political ideology is anarchy when it comes to education. Libertarian defines me otherwise but leave my dern kids alone!!

I think we will try unschooling this summer and see how it goes. I'm going to cut and paste your post into a Word doc, if that is okay.

Boys totally CANNOT sit at a desk for six hours a day and be expected to stay still and learn, that's insane. No wonder so many are drugged. Mine would be, and for no reason, except for being his naturally wiggly self. Hell, they'd have ME medicated and I am a woman in my 30's! I couldn't do it!

Alright, I'm veering off on a tangent, but I was so glad to see this thread. I too, hope it stays alive!

bump
Anonymous Coward
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Canada
10/09/2014 03:16 PM
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Re: Unschooling?
Unschooling!!
heres a torrent with lot of books by John Holt, Unschooling, alternative education. FREE BOOK CuLTURE for Life!
[link to kickass.to (secure)]
FREE CULTURE
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10/09/2014 03:17 PM
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one for the bump
Ohio chic

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10/09/2014 03:25 PM

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Re: Unschooling?
They have no idea at that age what they need later on in life. Throw some subjects in there for their personal interest.
Ephesians 5:6-9 CEB
"Nobody should deceive you with stupid ideas. God’s anger comes down on those who are disobedient because of this kind of thing. So you shouldn’t have anything to do with them. You were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord, so live your life as children of light. Light produces fruit that consists of every sort of goodness, justice, and truth."
Anonymous Coward
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10/09/2014 03:29 PM
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Re: Unschooling?
I tell my kids that it is going to take me the next 12 years to undo what the public school system did. Recently graduated HS, been out in the working world and they are slowly realizing that they were taught a bunch of BS.
~Awakened One~

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10/09/2014 03:36 PM
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Re: Unschooling?
i seen some kids on tv that were unschooled. one girl i guess around 10 or 11 couldnt even read. unschooling doesnt seem like a good ideal.

Last Edited by ~Awakened One~ on 10/09/2014 03:36 PM
The reset is upon us.
SeaCharger

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10/09/2014 03:42 PM
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Re: Unschooling?
We are unschooling. At just a couple of months after my daughter was born, and I realized she had a much different temperament than my other friends' children, I knew I couldn't send her off to school. I knew she'd be one of the children who'd have constant disciplinary issues (like my husband and myself) and who'd be a candidate for ADD/ADHD medication. So we decided at just a few months old to unschool her.

She's never gone to school. She's 4.5, and has an incredible imagination, is already learning to read - on her own, without me pushing it! She makes friends with people of all ages wherever we go, she speaks up for what she wants. She can make her own food, she is great about self-regulation. We negotiate a lot in our home, so everyone is heard and validated. She does a lot of role-play to problem-solve. I love listening to her play, I WISH I could have just an ounce of that creativity back!

We are always busy. We can travel, we can wake up early or late. She doesn't even go to bed until midnight. But she's free to take a nap during the day. She rides her bike at her leisure... in fact she's calling for me to go bike riding with her right now!

I have never taught her math or how to count, yet I was surprised to overhear her counting past 50 the other day! She saw a math problem on a chalkboard in a book and solved it without me explaining what it meant to her beforehand.

I love that we can hang out with our friends or participate in any activity without having to make major arrangements or basically ASK permission from a school authority. Our children will never have the view that all adults are their authority and must be respected because of their age. Our children will know much more diversity because she's not just playing with children her own age from the same socio-economic status. We have friends from all walks of life, from all different areas - we have all the opportunities we want at our fingertips!

When we are sick or having an 'off day,' we can hang around the house. We live within walking distance to my husband's work, so he can visit us at home for lunch or we can stop by his work on those days he has to work late. Evenings are a pleasure because we truly get to spend quality time together.

My husband is self-taught within his career. We know what it takes to make the kind of life we want work for us.

She watches me do practical things like paying for groceries, negotiating deals, she comes to my doctor's appointments, and asks lots of questions along the way. She even understands the value of money - at the store she points out when something (she wants) is on sale or shows me a coupon for an item she'd like.



There are a few books we love:
Sandra Dodd's Big Book of Unschooling - she's on the more 'extreme' side [link to www.amazon.com]

Last Child in the Woods by Richard Louv
[link to www.amazon.com]

Guerrilla Learning
[link to www.amazon.com]

The Unschooled Mind by Howard Gardener
[link to www.amazon.com]

Read any books or research papers on how the brain works and it's evident that school is the exact opposite of what our brains need!
SeaCharger
SeaCharger

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10/09/2014 03:50 PM
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Re: Unschooling?
I'll also add that my husband is in a high tech field. Nearly ALL of our neighbors are from India. Why? It's because we simply DO NOT have skilled enough workers to fill these high tech positions.

If you look at the future of education, if you listen to people like Bill Gates, they all say that our education system is not meeting the basic requirements to fulfill the jobs of the future. For us, it makes sense to help our kids get a leg up. They can sooner find out what they are good at, where their passions are, and what they want to do with their lives than a kid who spends 15 years in the public school system, still doesn't know what to do, spends too much money on college, and then is STILL clueless about what they'd like their career to look like.
SeaCharger
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10/10/2014 10:20 AM
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Re: Unschooling?
I am LOVING these replies...

Please post more case studies of un schooling - both good and bad.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2014 10:24 AM
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Re: Unschooling?
Nice big, succulent tits in your avatar.
Persephone

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10/10/2014 10:51 AM
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Re: Unschooling?
We are unschooling. At just a couple of months after my daughter was born, and I realized she had a much different temperament than my other friends' children, I knew I couldn't send her off to school. I knew she'd be one of the children who'd have constant disciplinary issues (like my husband and myself) and who'd be a candidate for ADD/ADHD medication. So we decided at just a few months old to unschool her.

She's never gone to school. She's 4.5, and has an incredible imagination, is already learning to read - on her own, without me pushing it! She makes friends with people of all ages wherever we go, she speaks up for what she wants. She can make her own food, she is great about self-regulation. We negotiate a lot in our home, so everyone is heard and validated. She does a lot of role-play to problem-solve. I love listening to her play, I WISH I could have just an ounce of that creativity back!

We are always busy. We can travel, we can wake up early or late. She doesn't even go to bed until midnight. But she's free to take a nap during the day. She rides her bike at her leisure... in fact she's calling for me to go bike riding with her right now!

I have never taught her math or how to count, yet I was surprised to overhear her counting past 50 the other day! She saw a math problem on a chalkboard in a book and solved it without me explaining what it meant to her beforehand.

I love that we can hang out with our friends or participate in any activity without having to make major arrangements or basically ASK permission from a school authority. Our children will never have the view that all adults are their authority and must be respected because of their age. Our children will know much more diversity because she's not just playing with children her own age from the same socio-economic status. We have friends from all walks of life, from all different areas - we have all the opportunities we want at our fingertips!

When we are sick or having an 'off day,' we can hang around the house. We live within walking distance to my husband's work, so he can visit us at home for lunch or we can stop by his work on those days he has to work late. Evenings are a pleasure because we truly get to spend quality time together.

My husband is self-taught within his career. We know what it takes to make the kind of life we want work for us.

She watches me do practical things like paying for groceries, negotiating deals, she comes to my doctor's appointments, and asks lots of questions along the way. She even understands the value of money - at the store she points out when something (she wants) is on sale or shows me a coupon for an item she'd like.



There are a few books we love:
Sandra Dodd's Big Book of Unschooling - she's on the more 'extreme' side [link to www.amazon.com]

Last Child in the Woods by Richard Louv
[link to www.amazon.com]

Guerrilla Learning
[link to www.amazon.com]

The Unschooled Mind by Howard Gardener
[link to www.amazon.com]

Read any books or research papers on how the brain works and it's evident that school is the exact opposite of what our brains need!
 Quoting: SeaCharger


Thank you for the referrals on books to read. I have thought about unschooling, but am still using a packaged curriculum. It seems to work for my son (now 5th grade), but it's just lacking.... almost minimal education for his intelligence, which when he is tested by the schools is still waaaayyyy beyond where his grade-mates are. He has a similar make-up as your daughter. I have tried him on and off in public schools, him entering school at way above grade level, and by the time I snatch him out again he is failing because his behavior keeps him constantly in ISS (In School Suspension). I will not try that again. I sometimes think he prefers ISS because it is sitting in a quiet area with one person. Bingo! Homeschooling is his answer and seems to work well with him, except I feel he could really soar if I were to release him to follow his own imagination. I just don't really know how to do it. When our studies are finished for the day, he has no other interest than playing video games, which does include role-playing, but I would like to see more interest in outside or creative activities. I try to pull him out to the garden, or learn a wood working project together, walk in the woods to identify things we see, but he wants no part of it. So, I have been very reluctant to even try the unschooling, but will certainly see if our library has some of these books, or order them to read and slowly implement bits & pieces into our curriculum to try to start replacing portions of our curriculum.
A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and can sing it back to you when you have forgotten the words.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2014 11:06 AM
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Re: Unschooling?
My daughter unschools her children. At first I thought she was crazy, although as a grandma I have learned to keep my mouth shut! Her oldest is now in his sophomore year at a private college. The younger ones are unbelievably smart. Her twelve year old is taking online college courses and getting rave reviews from the professors on her work. She is fiercely dedicated. I wouldn't have the patience, but she does and it's working.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
10/10/2014 11:12 AM
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Re: Unschooling?
Public schools are prison camps to produce future slaves that will be obedient to TPTB. They will question nothing as grown ups. It all starts with Mercury-laden vaccines at birth and continues with Fluoridated water and toothpaste.

No sense of identity or individuality.

Protect your children from mind control.

Orwell tried to warn us...

[link to www.george-orwell.org]
So I Am
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10/10/2014 11:22 AM
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Re: Unschooling?
BS that we do not have enough technical people or engineers. Are college education numbers say we do. However, our students now have high student debt and can't afford to work for low wages like a foreigner who got a free public and college education. They also don't have to pay into Obama Care. End up casting a company less in wages and in taxes too. That is why we are seeing so many immigrants coming to our country on HB-1 visa. Un-employment numbers only look lower and stable because the Unemployment office stops country folks who roll off. More kids living at home with parents and working part time and shift work because they are passed over for the more attractive immigrant employees, who are winding up promoted in the field. I don't expect this to last long though. It will be a true statement soon.

We keep insisting on free market principals though and now have a whole bunch of inferior charter schools crashing our system to boot.
SeaCharger

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10/10/2014 11:36 AM
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Re: Unschooling?
BS that we do not have enough technical people or engineers. Are college education numbers say we do. However, our students now have high student debt and can't afford to work for low wages like a foreigner who got a free public and college education. They also don't have to pay into Obama Care. End up casting a company less in wages and in taxes too. That is why we are seeing so many immigrants coming to our country on HB-1 visa. Un-employment numbers only look lower and stable because the Unemployment office stops country folks who roll off. More kids living at home with parents and working part time and shift work because they are passed over for the more attractive immigrant employees, who are winding up promoted in the field. I don't expect this to last long though. It will be a true statement soon.

We keep insisting on free market principals though and now have a whole bunch of inferior charter schools crashing our system to boot.
 Quoting: So I Am 63040054


I should have clarified, I meant to say we don't have enough *qualified* individuals to work in these high tech fields. And they are not working for minimum wage- they are being paid a decent amount, even for an expensive area like Seattle. $80-$100K min. is not 'low wage.'

Most of the people in these positions got where they are because they are self-taught. The problem is that even our public schools and high tech courses in college are not on the cutting edge. Ask any programmer, developer, or designer- they'll tell you they are mostly self-taught. And these are the individuals being recruited by Amazon, Google, Microsoft.
SeaCharger
pissed off canadian guy

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10/10/2014 11:41 AM

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einstien once said


Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school.


this is true.
a veracious one.
TripleH
I AM THE GAME

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10/10/2014 03:29 PM

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We homeschool our 4 boys. They are learning everything that public school teaches except for the liberal biases and sex education in the 4th grade. They'll figure it out... We focus on educating the way boys learn and it has been working very well.

My 1st entered college last year. The kid is #1 and he doesn't even try.

We are not unschooling and know a few families that do that. To each their own.
Anonymous Coward
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10/10/2014 03:52 PM
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Re: Unschooling?
einstien once said


Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school.


this is true.
 Quoting: pissed off canadian guy


Why do people keep quoting Einstein?

Even the theory of relativity is NOT his, but his wife's. She gave him that so she can have the kids in divorce.
pissed off canadian guy

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10/10/2014 03:55 PM

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Re: Unschooling?
einstien once said


Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school.


this is true.
 Quoting: pissed off canadian guy


Why do people keep quoting Einstein?

Even the theory of relativity is NOT his, but his wife's. She gave him that so she can have the kids in divorce.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 58115984


he was still a jew
a veracious one.

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