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Atheism as a rebellion against God?

 
CripplingLies

User ID: 5010858
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01/15/2013 03:13 PM

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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
I think none will pay attention on what I have to say, but here it goes:
I used to work as a coroner, two years. Two years seeing the most horrendous things, seeing how far human can go with insanity. I saw the true nature of the human being. In a country as violent as the one I live, children chopped in pieces is only a day-by-day routine that the news will not even cover anymore.
That was a time of reflection, a time to look inside and outside to question myself regarding God/Humans relation.
Atheism is one point of view so as faith. Religion is one way of trying to explain things, so as science.
I'm a graduated physicist, a man of science therefore, and I do believe in God. In fact, the other physicists and other science branches professionals I know, atheists are the minority, a very small minority I must add.
The problem is the association of God and religion. Religion and God are NOT the same thing. Believing in God does not require one to follow any religion. Religion and science are ways of trying to explain things humans are not natural to understand. On the other hand, having religion to explain these "mysteries" is not being an atheist.

I've been noticing from some time, that people in US tend to be very extremists. Don't get me wrong here, but I see that people in US are or pro or against, or black or white, or republican or democrats, evolved or obtuse. And this behavior, is mostly influenced, not a conclusion formed by themselves, but something they were being conditioned to. This is true also for the religion/science factor. They tend to believe that one is either religious or science believer. Why not a mixing of both?
Amilius (OP)

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01/15/2013 05:27 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
In fact, the other physicists and other science branches professionals I know, atheists are the minority, a very small minority I must add.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


What really??? I thought most scientists ARE atheists! And a very small minority believe in God. I explained that as scientists they only believe in what has been proven.
Anonymous Coward
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01/15/2013 05:31 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Thread: Know Your Enemy Series (Video Bible) - (NWO - Illuminati - RFID - Spirits)

Watch this OP. It may or may not help you.

Most likely will.

hf
Amilius (OP)

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01/15/2013 05:54 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Thread: Know Your Enemy Series (Video Bible) - (NWO - Illuminati - RFID - Spirits)

Watch this OP. It may or may not help you.

Most likely will.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 27349007


I agree with the video that we should unite but the video is biased and says Christianity is the truth. I don't believe that.
Anonymous Coward
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01/15/2013 07:22 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
I think none will pay attention on what I have to say, but here it goes:
I used to work as a coroner, two years. Two years seeing the most horrendous things, seeing how far human can go with insanity. I saw the true nature of the human being. In a country as violent as the one I live, children chopped in pieces is only a day-by-day routine that the news will not even cover anymore.
That was a time of reflection, a time to look inside and outside to question myself regarding God/Humans relation.
Atheism is one point of view so as faith. Religion is one way of trying to explain things, so as science.
I'm a graduated physicist, a man of science therefore, and I do believe in God. In fact, the other physicists and other science branches professionals I know, atheists are the minority, a very small minority I must add.
The problem is the association of God and religion. Religion and God are NOT the same thing. Believing in God does not require one to follow any religion. Religion and science are ways of trying to explain things humans are not natural to understand. On the other hand, having religion to explain these "mysteries" is not being an atheist.

I've been noticing from some time, that people in US tend to be very extremists. Don't get me wrong here, but I see that people in US are or pro or against, or black or white, or republican or democrats, evolved or obtuse. And this behavior, is mostly influenced, not a conclusion formed by themselves, but something they were being conditioned to. This is true also for the religion/science factor. They tend to believe that one is either religious or science believer. Why not a mixing of both?
 Quoting: CripplingLies


God is the ultimate scientist :) we can still learn about how things in the world work, we just see it through eyes of creation. Nothing wrong with that. We are created. If you don't believe that, then you most likely adhere to evolution, which is false :)
CripplingLies

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01/16/2013 06:00 AM

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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
In fact, the other physicists and other science branches professionals I know, atheists are the minority, a very small minority I must add.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


What really??? I thought most scientists ARE atheists! And a very small minority believe in God. I explained that as scientists they only believe in what has been proven.
 Quoting: Amilius


This is a common mistake. "To prove" something right or wrong, may be a point of view. There are things that you must believe in, just like that. Take LHC for example. They built it, to try to prove many theories. Some were proven right, some were proven wrong, some remained inconclusive and even some new theories emerged. Until they built it and used it, it was only theory, only a belief, exactly the same as faith.
Another point to understand is: Science is not only about proof, the factor that laymen forget about is the counter-proof. If you can prove something with a determined set of experiment, you must be able to counter-proof it using the same set of experiment in opposite conditions. In short, you have to prove it right and prove it wrong in an opposite experiment. If you can prove it right with a set of experiment AND wrong with an opposite experiment, they you have a conclusion. If only one experiment works out, then you have a hypothesis, meaning that you have to set up a different experiment to try to prove and counter-prove it. So, if you prove it and counter-prove it, you have a scientific argument. if you can only prove it, you have hypothesis, if you can't neither prove it or counter-prove it, you have a theory. It doesn't matter if math support the theory, math is only indicator that it might be experimented, but doesn't validate any theory.
Also keep in mind that, scientifically speaking, there's a saying: The absence of proof is not proof of absence. So, taking God as an example, one can't prove He exists, but on the other hand, one can't also prove He doesn't and scientifically speaking, this puts God as a hypothesis, since one can't prove He exists, but also can't prove He doesn't exist.
Amilius (OP)

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01/16/2013 11:08 AM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
In fact, the other physicists and other science branches professionals I know, atheists are the minority, a very small minority I must add.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


What really??? I thought most scientists ARE atheists! And a very small minority believe in God. I explained that as scientists they only believe in what has been proven.
 Quoting: Amilius


This is a common mistake. "To prove" something right or wrong, may be a point of view. There are things that you must believe in, just like that. Take LHC for example. They built it, to try to prove many theories. Some were proven right, some were proven wrong, some remained inconclusive and even some new theories emerged. Until they built it and used it, it was only theory, only a belief, exactly the same as faith.
Another point to understand is: Science is not only about proof, the factor that laymen forget about is the counter-proof. If you can prove something with a determined set of experiment, you must be able to counter-proof it using the same set of experiment in opposite conditions. In short, you have to prove it right and prove it wrong in an opposite experiment. If you can prove it right with a set of experiment AND wrong with an opposite experiment, they you have a conclusion. If only one experiment works out, then you have a hypothesis, meaning that you have to set up a different experiment to try to prove and counter-prove it. So, if you prove it and counter-prove it, you have a scientific argument. if you can only prove it, you have hypothesis, if you can't neither prove it or counter-prove it, you have a theory. It doesn't matter if math support the theory, math is only indicator that it might be experimented, but doesn't validate any theory.
Also keep in mind that, scientifically speaking, there's a saying: The absence of proof is not proof of absence. So, taking God as an example, one can't prove He exists, but on the other hand, one can't also prove He doesn't and scientifically speaking, this puts God as a hypothesis, since one can't prove He exists, but also can't prove He doesn't exist.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


Okay thanks. But I have a question. You explained that in order to know something doesn't exist it must be proven wrong and the opposite proven right. But what about the burden of proof? Since theists are making the claim that God exists, shouldn't the burden of proof be on THEM? And since God hasn't been proven, isn't it rational to believe he doesn't exist?
CripplingLies

User ID: 5010858
Brazil
01/16/2013 12:38 PM

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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
In fact, the other physicists and other science branches professionals I know, atheists are the minority, a very small minority I must add.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


What really??? I thought most scientists ARE atheists! And a very small minority believe in God. I explained that as scientists they only believe in what has been proven.
 Quoting: Amilius


This is a common mistake. "To prove" something right or wrong, may be a point of view. There are things that you must believe in, just like that. Take LHC for example. They built it, to try to prove many theories. Some were proven right, some were proven wrong, some remained inconclusive and even some new theories emerged. Until they built it and used it, it was only theory, only a belief, exactly the same as faith.
Another point to understand is: Science is not only about proof, the factor that laymen forget about is the counter-proof. If you can prove something with a determined set of experiment, you must be able to counter-proof it using the same set of experiment in opposite conditions. In short, you have to prove it right and prove it wrong in an opposite experiment. If you can prove it right with a set of experiment AND wrong with an opposite experiment, they you have a conclusion. If only one experiment works out, then you have a hypothesis, meaning that you have to set up a different experiment to try to prove and counter-prove it. So, if you prove it and counter-prove it, you have a scientific argument. if you can only prove it, you have hypothesis, if you can't neither prove it or counter-prove it, you have a theory. It doesn't matter if math support the theory, math is only indicator that it might be experimented, but doesn't validate any theory.
Also keep in mind that, scientifically speaking, there's a saying: The absence of proof is not proof of absence. So, taking God as an example, one can't prove He exists, but on the other hand, one can't also prove He doesn't and scientifically speaking, this puts God as a hypothesis, since one can't prove He exists, but also can't prove He doesn't exist.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


Okay thanks. But I have a question. You explained that in order to know something doesn't exist it must be proven wrong and the opposite proven right. But what about the burden of proof? Since theists are making the claim that God exists, shouldn't the burden of proof be on THEM? And since God hasn't been proven, isn't it rational to believe he doesn't exist?
 Quoting: Amilius


Well, lets take a simple example: Higgs Boson, the, so called, God's particle. LHC had no proof of its existence, until it was put to the test in the right conditions. Now it has been proven that it does exists and its observable. But there are many things in science that we know exists but cannot be proven, simply because we don't yet have the right technology or methods to prove it. That's the case of God. One can't prove His existence, but on the other hand can't prove he doesn't exist, so its theory. Apart from faith, there's no proof He exists, but also there's no proof he doesn't exist. Examples of things that in theory exists but can't be proven: Wormholes, dark matter, dark energy, strings(the strings theory), brane-world scenario... there are many more, that scientifically can't be proven, but also can't be unproven.
Ballin on Your Tax Dollars

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01/16/2013 12:42 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Rebellion against control.
Don't blame the puppet in the white house, blame the system he came up in.

:gtable:
Amilius (OP)

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United States
01/16/2013 12:46 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
...


What really??? I thought most scientists ARE atheists! And a very small minority believe in God. I explained that as scientists they only believe in what has been proven.
 Quoting: Amilius


This is a common mistake. "To prove" something right or wrong, may be a point of view. There are things that you must believe in, just like that. Take LHC for example. They built it, to try to prove many theories. Some were proven right, some were proven wrong, some remained inconclusive and even some new theories emerged. Until they built it and used it, it was only theory, only a belief, exactly the same as faith.
Another point to understand is: Science is not only about proof, the factor that laymen forget about is the counter-proof. If you can prove something with a determined set of experiment, you must be able to counter-proof it using the same set of experiment in opposite conditions. In short, you have to prove it right and prove it wrong in an opposite experiment. If you can prove it right with a set of experiment AND wrong with an opposite experiment, they you have a conclusion. If only one experiment works out, then you have a hypothesis, meaning that you have to set up a different experiment to try to prove and counter-prove it. So, if you prove it and counter-prove it, you have a scientific argument. if you can only prove it, you have hypothesis, if you can't neither prove it or counter-prove it, you have a theory. It doesn't matter if math support the theory, math is only indicator that it might be experimented, but doesn't validate any theory.
Also keep in mind that, scientifically speaking, there's a saying: The absence of proof is not proof of absence. So, taking God as an example, one can't prove He exists, but on the other hand, one can't also prove He doesn't and scientifically speaking, this puts God as a hypothesis, since one can't prove He exists, but also can't prove He doesn't exist.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


Okay thanks. But I have a question. You explained that in order to know something doesn't exist it must be proven wrong and the opposite proven right. But what about the burden of proof? Since theists are making the claim that God exists, shouldn't the burden of proof be on THEM? And since God hasn't been proven, isn't it rational to believe he doesn't exist?
 Quoting: Amilius


Well, lets take a simple example: Higgs Boson, the, so called, God's particle. LHC had no proof of its existence, until it was put to the test in the right conditions. Now it has been proven that it does exists and its observable. But there are many things in science that we know exists but cannot be proven, simply because we don't yet have the right technology or methods to prove it. That's the case of God. One can't prove His existence, but on the other hand can't prove he doesn't exist, so its theory. Apart from faith, there's no proof He exists, but also there's no proof he doesn't exist. Examples of things that in theory exists but can't be proven: Wormholes, dark matter, dark energy, strings(the strings theory), brane-world scenario... there are many more, that scientifically can't be proven, but also can't be unproven.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


I thought "Wormholes, dark matter, dark energy, strings(the strings theory), brane-world scenario" were already proven? And so does the burden of proof lie with the theists? Is it then irrational to believe in God?
Anonymous Coward
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01/16/2013 12:54 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
there ain't no fricking God. end of story. get a life.
CripplingLies

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01/16/2013 01:14 PM

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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
...


This is a common mistake. "To prove" something right or wrong, may be a point of view. There are things that you must believe in, just like that. Take LHC for example. They built it, to try to prove many theories. Some were proven right, some were proven wrong, some remained inconclusive and even some new theories emerged. Until they built it and used it, it was only theory, only a belief, exactly the same as faith.
Another point to understand is: Science is not only about proof, the factor that laymen forget about is the counter-proof. If you can prove something with a determined set of experiment, you must be able to counter-proof it using the same set of experiment in opposite conditions. In short, you have to prove it right and prove it wrong in an opposite experiment. If you can prove it right with a set of experiment AND wrong with an opposite experiment, they you have a conclusion. If only one experiment works out, then you have a hypothesis, meaning that you have to set up a different experiment to try to prove and counter-prove it. So, if you prove it and counter-prove it, you have a scientific argument. if you can only prove it, you have hypothesis, if you can't neither prove it or counter-prove it, you have a theory. It doesn't matter if math support the theory, math is only indicator that it might be experimented, but doesn't validate any theory.
Also keep in mind that, scientifically speaking, there's a saying: The absence of proof is not proof of absence. So, taking God as an example, one can't prove He exists, but on the other hand, one can't also prove He doesn't and scientifically speaking, this puts God as a hypothesis, since one can't prove He exists, but also can't prove He doesn't exist.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


Okay thanks. But I have a question. You explained that in order to know something doesn't exist it must be proven wrong and the opposite proven right. But what about the burden of proof? Since theists are making the claim that God exists, shouldn't the burden of proof be on THEM? And since God hasn't been proven, isn't it rational to believe he doesn't exist?
 Quoting: Amilius


Well, lets take a simple example: Higgs Boson, the, so called, God's particle. LHC had no proof of its existence, until it was put to the test in the right conditions. Now it has been proven that it does exists and its observable. But there are many things in science that we know exists but cannot be proven, simply because we don't yet have the right technology or methods to prove it. That's the case of God. One can't prove His existence, but on the other hand can't prove he doesn't exist, so its theory. Apart from faith, there's no proof He exists, but also there's no proof he doesn't exist. Examples of things that in theory exists but can't be proven: Wormholes, dark matter, dark energy, strings(the strings theory), brane-world scenario... there are many more, that scientifically can't be proven, but also can't be unproven.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


I thought "Wormholes, dark matter, dark energy, strings(the strings theory), brane-world scenario" were already proven? And so does the burden of proof lie with the theists? Is it then irrational to believe in God?
 Quoting: Amilius


No, none of this were really proven, there are theories, there are calculations that corroborates the theory, but proof as a matter of fact, none.
And its not irrational to believe in God. Faith is all that you need. If you don't believe in God, its ok, you are entitled to your opinion and everybody should respect that. But faith is not a matter of logic, its not a matter of proof, its like being in love, you either have it or not. Keeping in mind that God is not a physical being, you cannot try to prove Him, with our human, physical knowledge.
But now, walk another mile here with me:
You certainly are aware of Christian beliefs, right? You know how (supposedly) a Christian should behave and live, right? Well, its very simple, do good and live honestly respecting everyone, you know what I'm talking about. Basically, be a good person and have faith the Jesus is your saviour. The supposed reward for that, is in the afterlife, where you will live in the paradise.
Now, if you are a Christian and do good, have faith and accept Jesus as your saviour, it will do no harm to you. You'll live your whole life as a good person.
But what happens if you don't? Well, supposedly in the afterlife you will be condemned to an eternity of undescribable torment, just because you tried to put things in a rational way, things that were beyond your comprehension.
So, in which case you have more to lose? Ask yourself this and answer honestly.
- If I'm right and there's a God, I'll be rewarded with an eternity of joy and you will be condemned to an eternity of torment.
- If you are right, there's no afterlife and no God. So life will end and period. Even so, I didn't lost anything, I just lived a life of righteosuness just like you(I believe). In that case, I don't lose anything neither do you.
But in a rational thinking then: Which of the above hypothesis will rationally choose? Remember, being a good person is not a bad thing...
Anonymous Coward
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01/16/2013 01:19 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Here is a thought. I am not trying to offend or hurt anyone. In this case atheists. I am just trying to learn truth about human behaviors. My hypothesis is this: Atheism is a rebellion against God. I would consider atheists could have been religious theists who in some way have been hurt or betrayed by their religion or God. Maybe there was something that they wanted but couldn't get from God. Maybe their religion betrayed them in some way. So they are hurt and repress their feelings and then unable to understand why they don't believe in God. They reject God and religion and anything associate with those including prayers, scriptures, prophets etc... Eventually they outright deny the existence of God and find any arguments against the existence of God or Gods. They often become involved with intellectual arguments against the existence of God. Some strongest arguments is that science hasn't proved God or that there is evil and suffering in the world. When I deal with atheists they often times offend me. I do not believe they are irrational, unkind, less happy, less intelligent or in any way more deficient or inferior to any other human who believes in God. I just think they are trying to escape God. Ok to a scientist its common to reject God. But some scientists do believe in God. It is a normal thing to do. There is God and there are God's prophets. Depending on a person's religious views the prophets can be Moses, Jesus, Buddha or the Vedic Rishis. Prophets exist. Research Edgar Cayce. He was a real prophet who could get information from the Akashic Records. Same with other long in the past prophets. Jesus was a historical person and I believe he could perform miracles too. I have left religion because I was disillusioned with it too. I call myself nonreligious and spiritual. To abandon God is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Atheists will probably not realize but they may have been hurt by God in their souls so they have this consciousness that rejects God and anything associated with God.
 Quoting: Amilius


Most if not all atheiests are open to, or active satanaic worshippers - be forewarned...
Anonymous Coward
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01/16/2013 02:27 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Here is a thought. I am not trying to offend or hurt anyone. In this case atheists. I am just trying to learn truth about human behaviors. My hypothesis is this: Atheism is a rebellion against God. I would consider atheists could have been religious theists who in some way have been hurt or betrayed by their religion or God. Maybe there was something that they wanted but couldn't get from God. Maybe their religion betrayed them in some way. So they are hurt and repress their feelings and then unable to understand why they don't believe in God. They reject God and religion and anything associate with those including prayers, scriptures, prophets etc... Eventually they outright deny the existence of God and find any arguments against the existence of God or Gods. They often become involved with intellectual arguments against the existence of God. Some strongest arguments is that science hasn't proved God or that there is evil and suffering in the world. When I deal with atheists they often times offend me. I do not believe they are irrational, unkind, less happy, less intelligent or in any way more deficient or inferior to any other human who believes in God. I just think they are trying to escape God. Ok to a scientist its common to reject God. But some scientists do believe in God. It is a normal thing to do. There is God and there are God's prophets. Depending on a person's religious views the prophets can be Moses, Jesus, Buddha or the Vedic Rishis. Prophets exist. Research Edgar Cayce. He was a real prophet who could get information from the Akashic Records. Same with other long in the past prophets. Jesus was a historical person and I believe he could perform miracles too. I have left religion because I was disillusioned with it too. I call myself nonreligious and spiritual. To abandon God is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Atheists will probably not realize but they may have been hurt by God in their souls so they have this consciousness that rejects God and anything associated with God.
 Quoting: Amilius


Most if not all atheiests are open to, or active satanaic worshippers - be forewarned...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32166738


jerkit
Amilius (OP)

User ID: 31655145
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01/16/2013 06:37 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
...


Okay thanks. But I have a question. You explained that in order to know something doesn't exist it must be proven wrong and the opposite proven right. But what about the burden of proof? Since theists are making the claim that God exists, shouldn't the burden of proof be on THEM? And since God hasn't been proven, isn't it rational to believe he doesn't exist?
 Quoting: Amilius


Well, lets take a simple example: Higgs Boson, the, so called, God's particle. LHC had no proof of its existence, until it was put to the test in the right conditions. Now it has been proven that it does exists and its observable. But there are many things in science that we know exists but cannot be proven, simply because we don't yet have the right technology or methods to prove it. That's the case of God. One can't prove His existence, but on the other hand can't prove he doesn't exist, so its theory. Apart from faith, there's no proof He exists, but also there's no proof he doesn't exist. Examples of things that in theory exists but can't be proven: Wormholes, dark matter, dark energy, strings(the strings theory), brane-world scenario... there are many more, that scientifically can't be proven, but also can't be unproven.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


I thought "Wormholes, dark matter, dark energy, strings(the strings theory), brane-world scenario" were already proven? And so does the burden of proof lie with the theists? Is it then irrational to believe in God?
 Quoting: Amilius


No, none of this were really proven, there are theories, there are calculations that corroborates the theory, but proof as a matter of fact, none.
And its not irrational to believe in God. Faith is all that you need. If you don't believe in God, its ok, you are entitled to your opinion and everybody should respect that. But faith is not a matter of logic, its not a matter of proof, its like being in love, you either have it or not. Keeping in mind that God is not a physical being, you cannot try to prove Him, with our human, physical knowledge.
But now, walk another mile here with me:
You certainly are aware of Christian beliefs, right? You know how (supposedly) a Christian should behave and live, right? Well, its very simple, do good and live honestly respecting everyone, you know what I'm talking about. Basically, be a good person and have faith the Jesus is your saviour. The supposed reward for that, is in the afterlife, where you will live in the paradise.
Now, if you are a Christian and do good, have faith and accept Jesus as your saviour, it will do no harm to you. You'll live your whole life as a good person.
But what happens if you don't? Well, supposedly in the afterlife you will be condemned to an eternity of undescribable torment, just because you tried to put things in a rational way, things that were beyond your comprehension.
So, in which case you have more to lose? Ask yourself this and answer honestly.
- If I'm right and there's a God, I'll be rewarded with an eternity of joy and you will be condemned to an eternity of torment.
- If you are right, there's no afterlife and no God. So life will end and period. Even so, I didn't lost anything, I just lived a life of righteosuness just like you(I believe). In that case, I don't lose anything neither do you.
But in a rational thinking then: Which of the above hypothesis will rationally choose? Remember, being a good person is not a bad thing...
 Quoting: CripplingLies


So the burden of proof is not on theists?
Anonymous Coward
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01/16/2013 06:39 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Yes it is what you say OP
CripplingLies

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01/16/2013 06:41 PM

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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
...


Well, lets take a simple example: Higgs Boson, the, so called, God's particle. LHC had no proof of its existence, until it was put to the test in the right conditions. Now it has been proven that it does exists and its observable. But there are many things in science that we know exists but cannot be proven, simply because we don't yet have the right technology or methods to prove it. That's the case of God. One can't prove His existence, but on the other hand can't prove he doesn't exist, so its theory. Apart from faith, there's no proof He exists, but also there's no proof he doesn't exist. Examples of things that in theory exists but can't be proven: Wormholes, dark matter, dark energy, strings(the strings theory), brane-world scenario... there are many more, that scientifically can't be proven, but also can't be unproven.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


I thought "Wormholes, dark matter, dark energy, strings(the strings theory), brane-world scenario" were already proven? And so does the burden of proof lie with the theists? Is it then irrational to believe in God?
 Quoting: Amilius


No, none of this were really proven, there are theories, there are calculations that corroborates the theory, but proof as a matter of fact, none.
And its not irrational to believe in God. Faith is all that you need. If you don't believe in God, its ok, you are entitled to your opinion and everybody should respect that. But faith is not a matter of logic, its not a matter of proof, its like being in love, you either have it or not. Keeping in mind that God is not a physical being, you cannot try to prove Him, with our human, physical knowledge.
But now, walk another mile here with me:
You certainly are aware of Christian beliefs, right? You know how (supposedly) a Christian should behave and live, right? Well, its very simple, do good and live honestly respecting everyone, you know what I'm talking about. Basically, be a good person and have faith the Jesus is your saviour. The supposed reward for that, is in the afterlife, where you will live in the paradise.
Now, if you are a Christian and do good, have faith and accept Jesus as your saviour, it will do no harm to you. You'll live your whole life as a good person.
But what happens if you don't? Well, supposedly in the afterlife you will be condemned to an eternity of undescribable torment, just because you tried to put things in a rational way, things that were beyond your comprehension.
So, in which case you have more to lose? Ask yourself this and answer honestly.
- If I'm right and there's a God, I'll be rewarded with an eternity of joy and you will be condemned to an eternity of torment.
- If you are right, there's no afterlife and no God. So life will end and period. Even so, I didn't lost anything, I just lived a life of righteosuness just like you(I believe). In that case, I don't lose anything neither do you.
But in a rational thinking then: Which of the above hypothesis will rationally choose? Remember, being a good person is not a bad thing...
 Quoting: CripplingLies


So the burden of proof is not on theists?
 Quoting: Amilius


Sounds like you didn't understood...
Amilius (OP)

User ID: 31655145
United States
01/16/2013 08:20 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
...


I thought "Wormholes, dark matter, dark energy, strings(the strings theory), brane-world scenario" were already proven? And so does the burden of proof lie with the theists? Is it then irrational to believe in God?
 Quoting: Amilius


No, none of this were really proven, there are theories, there are calculations that corroborates the theory, but proof as a matter of fact, none.
And its not irrational to believe in God. Faith is all that you need. If you don't believe in God, its ok, you are entitled to your opinion and everybody should respect that. But faith is not a matter of logic, its not a matter of proof, its like being in love, you either have it or not. Keeping in mind that God is not a physical being, you cannot try to prove Him, with our human, physical knowledge.
But now, walk another mile here with me:
You certainly are aware of Christian beliefs, right? You know how (supposedly) a Christian should behave and live, right? Well, its very simple, do good and live honestly respecting everyone, you know what I'm talking about. Basically, be a good person and have faith the Jesus is your saviour. The supposed reward for that, is in the afterlife, where you will live in the paradise.
Now, if you are a Christian and do good, have faith and accept Jesus as your saviour, it will do no harm to you. You'll live your whole life as a good person.
But what happens if you don't? Well, supposedly in the afterlife you will be condemned to an eternity of undescribable torment, just because you tried to put things in a rational way, things that were beyond your comprehension.
So, in which case you have more to lose? Ask yourself this and answer honestly.
- If I'm right and there's a God, I'll be rewarded with an eternity of joy and you will be condemned to an eternity of torment.
- If you are right, there's no afterlife and no God. So life will end and period. Even so, I didn't lost anything, I just lived a life of righteosuness just like you(I believe). In that case, I don't lose anything neither do you.
But in a rational thinking then: Which of the above hypothesis will rationally choose? Remember, being a good person is not a bad thing...
 Quoting: CripplingLies


So the burden of proof is not on theists?
 Quoting: Amilius


Sounds like you didn't understood...
 Quoting: CripplingLies


Then please explain it again.
CripplingLies

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01/16/2013 09:35 PM

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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Well, in order for me to keep on going with this, I need to know, are you an atheist?
Amilius (OP)

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01/16/2013 09:59 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Well, in order for me to keep on going with this, I need to know, are you an atheist?
 Quoting: CripplingLies


No of course not.
Anonymous Coward
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01/16/2013 10:49 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
You are either on Gods team or Satans team!

There is no middle ground!

If you are an atheist new ager, etc you are on Satans team.

Those like wilcock that not only defy Gods word but encourage others to defy God too will be judged harshly if they don't wakeup and repair the damage they have done to God

God will not be amused at David's channeling so I pray he joins Gods team soon! All channeling comes from the Devil as does anything that takes you away from God and Jesus Christ!
CripplingLies

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Brazil
01/17/2013 05:44 AM

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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Well, in order for me to keep on going with this, I need to know, are you an atheist?
 Quoting: CripplingLies


No of course not.
 Quoting: Amilius


In this case, I would like to know about your beliefs, if you don't mind...
4Q529

User ID: 32425456
United States
01/17/2013 05:52 AM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
You are either on Gods team or Satans team!

There is no middle ground!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32333620


This is not a helpful duality. This is the kind of thing that, much more likely, will generate conflict and violence.

A more helpful approach is between those who have Knowledge and those who do not have Knowledge.

"My people perish for lack of Knowledge."

A corollary to that being that Knowledge is very specific rather than general and amorphous.

Michael
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01/17/2013 06:04 AM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Here is a thought. I am not trying to offend or hurt anyone. In this case atheists. I am just trying to learn truth about human behaviors. My hypothesis is this: Atheism is a rebellion against God. I would consider atheists could have been religious theists who in some way have been hurt or betrayed by their religion or God. Maybe there was something that they wanted but couldn't get from God. Maybe their religion betrayed them in some way. So they are hurt and repress their feelings and then unable to understand why they don't believe in God. They reject God and religion and anything associate with those including prayers, scriptures, prophets etc... Eventually they outright deny the existence of God and find any arguments against the existence of God or Gods. They often become involved with intellectual arguments against the existence of God. Some strongest arguments is that science hasn't proved God or that there is evil and suffering in the world. When I deal with atheists they often times offend me. I do not believe they are irrational, unkind, less happy, less intelligent or in any way more deficient or inferior to any other human who believes in God. I just think they are trying to escape God. Ok to a scientist its common to reject God. But some scientists do believe in God. It is a normal thing to do. There is God and there are God's prophets. Depending on a person's religious views the prophets can be Moses, Jesus, Buddha or the Vedic Rishis. Prophets exist. Research Edgar Cayce. He was a real prophet who could get information from the Akashic Records. Same with other long in the past prophets. Jesus was a historical person and I believe he could perform miracles too. I have left religion because I was disillusioned with it too. I call myself nonreligious and spiritual. To abandon God is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Atheists will probably not realize but they may have been hurt by God in their souls so they have this consciousness that rejects God and anything associated with God.
 Quoting: Amilius


The only atheists I know are egomaniacs, in their minds THEY are God, they refuse a greater authority ..... but there is a big problem because their lives aren't that great when you consider how it must be for the great magnificence.
Amilius (OP)

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01/17/2013 11:01 AM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Well, in order for me to keep on going with this, I need to know, are you an atheist?
 Quoting: CripplingLies


No of course not.
 Quoting: Amilius


In this case, I would like to know about your beliefs, if you don't mind...
 Quoting: CripplingLies


I'm spiritual and nonreligious. I'm a pantheist and believe in Moses, Jesus and Muhammad are real prophets and believe Eastern Religions more. I am a lot like those New Agers and it wouldn't be completely incorrect to call me one either.
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2013 11:07 AM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
I was athiest once. It was my rebellion against the establishment trying to reign my spirituality for their profit. I also am a man Of science and physics, but I started that journey seeking answers to a reality so fucked up. The deeper I go into that world the more I cannot deny God.
CripplingLies

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Brazil
01/17/2013 02:54 PM

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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Well, in order for me to keep on going with this, I need to know, are you an atheist?
 Quoting: CripplingLies


No of course not.
 Quoting: Amilius


In this case, I would like to know about your beliefs, if you don't mind...
 Quoting: CripplingLies


I'm spiritual and nonreligious. I'm a pantheist and believe in Moses, Jesus and Muhammad are real prophets and believe Eastern Religions more. I am a lot like those New Agers and it wouldn't be completely incorrect to call me one either.
 Quoting: Amilius


Ok, you are just like me then. I also believe that God does exists, Jesus and many other prophets. So, you understand the matters of faith, you do understand that with faith, one doesn't require proof of ones beliefs. I also understand that most of the atheists, demand proof in order to believe. Well, there's no proof that will satisfy a stubborn atheists. He would want a material, scientific, observable proof. Since faith is a spiritual manifestation, there's no physical way to prove it. But a spiritualized person, can show such an atheist the effects and results of the faith, by showing his happiness and the joy of having the certainty of an eternity of joy in heaven(however one believes how heaven is), by showing how good is to live with the faith that there's a merciful loving God, watching every step of our lives and guiding us to the right path. The point is, faith can't be physically proven, but its consequences can and that's what a spiritualized person should show. The "burden of proof", is not on the believer side neither of the atheist side, believers should show their faith and the good consequences of it, the atheist, should rationally(because that's the way an atheist sees things, using the logic alone) see that the believer is not less nor higher smart than him, or "an insane person" for believing in something that can't be physically proven. Any atheist that only argue with sarcasm, hateful speech, insults and such things, should be let to do so, but a true believer will simply not pay attention to the bad attitude, instead, a true believer will try to show this atheists that his/her point of view is not the right one, according to his/hers beliefs. A true believer, will never respond hate with hate.
Witness for Him

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01/17/2013 02:57 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
Thread: God repsonds to atheism
Amilius (OP)

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01/17/2013 05:03 PM
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Re: Atheism as a rebellion against God?
...


No of course not.
 Quoting: Amilius


In this case, I would like to know about your beliefs, if you don't mind...
 Quoting: CripplingLies


I'm spiritual and nonreligious. I'm a pantheist and believe in Moses, Jesus and Muhammad are real prophets and believe Eastern Religions more. I am a lot like those New Agers and it wouldn't be completely incorrect to call me one either.
 Quoting: Amilius


Ok, you are just like me then. I also believe that God does exists, Jesus and many other prophets. So, you understand the matters of faith, you do understand that with faith, one doesn't require proof of ones beliefs. I also understand that most of the atheists, demand proof in order to believe. Well, there's no proof that will satisfy a stubborn atheists. He would want a material, scientific, observable proof. Since faith is a spiritual manifestation, there's no physical way to prove it. But a spiritualized person, can show such an atheist the effects and results of the faith, by showing his happiness and the joy of having the certainty of an eternity of joy in heaven(however one believes how heaven is), by showing how good is to live with the faith that there's a merciful loving God, watching every step of our lives and guiding us to the right path. The point is, faith can't be physically proven, but its consequences can and that's what a spiritualized person should show. The "burden of proof", is not on the believer side neither of the atheist side, believers should show their faith and the good consequences of it, the atheist, should rationally(because that's the way an atheist sees things, using the logic alone) see that the believer is not less nor higher smart than him, or "an insane person" for believing in something that can't be physically proven. Any atheist that only argue with sarcasm, hateful speech, insults and such things, should be let to do so, but a true believer will simply not pay attention to the bad attitude, instead, a true believer will try to show this atheists that his/her point of view is not the right one, according to his/hers beliefs. A true believer, will never respond hate with hate.
 Quoting: CripplingLies


Ok

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