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Record numbers of citizens leaving USA...

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26234249
Canada
01/16/2013 12:45 AM
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Re: Record numbers of citizens leaving USA...
They are leaving the U.S.A. and going where? It is not like there is going to be a picnic in the U.K. either or anything.

Are they "real" Americans, or just naturalized U.S. citizens returning to their home countries?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26234249
Canada
01/16/2013 12:51 AM
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I am native american and this is my home!But now days it sure dont seem like it.When i leave the house its not car jackers i worry about.Its not muggers,,it is the police! I have asked a lot of people what their number one fear is when going to town or traveling and everyone i have asked says the same thing,,the cops!As much as i love my country,,if i had the means i would pack up and go to a south american country.I know a lot of those places have their fair share of problems too but at this point im ready to put on a loin cloth and live in the jungle if thats what it takes to find a little comfort and peace.
 Quoting: FEDup 31426933


I am Cherokee. Our forefathers taking the pecefull path years ago was a BIG mistake. They should have killed every person coming off the ships. Man, Woman, and Child.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19004483

Just so they could continue their war of conquest with the Creeks, Kusatees, and Uchees? Yes, the Cherokees were the Conquistadores of their day.

And after their chiefs sold their lands to the English settlers, they then broke their agreements and made war against those English who purchased the lands for large amounts money, guns, furs, etc.

Everybody made war and conquest with each other back then. It was an ugly history for everyone with a worldview of conquest, Cherokees, English and American settlers included.

And you can blame Pres. Andrew jackson and his Congress for the Trail of Tears. George Washington was fine with everyone staying in their homelands. Jefferson and Lincoln supported the Indians' right to stay too. But Jackson and his Congress passed the bill to pressure them out after overcoming great opposition in Congress. It was a tragedy for all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32163729




If you knew any history you would know that the English (later the "Americans") massively defrauded the Native Americans out of their lands.


They even themselves admitted that (as did the Natives) that a large swath of fertile land could be "bought" by the English in exchange for "singing a song."


Tragedy for everyone? You mean was side is evicted from their own land by the other, but you mean that "everyone" is impacted?

Silly.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26234249
Canada
01/16/2013 12:54 AM
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Re: Record numbers of citizens leaving USA...
I am native american and this is my home!But now days it sure dont seem like it.When i leave the house its not car jackers i worry about.Its not muggers,,it is the police! I have asked a lot of people what their number one fear is when going to town or traveling and everyone i have asked says the same thing,,the cops!As much as i love my country,,if i had the means i would pack up and go to a south american country.I know a lot of those places have their fair share of problems too but at this point im ready to put on a loin cloth and live in the jungle if thats what it takes to find a little comfort and peace.
 Quoting: FEDup 31426933


I am Cherokee. Our forefathers taking the pecefull path years ago was a BIG mistake. They should have killed every person coming off the ships. Man, Woman, and Child.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19004483

Just so they could continue their war of conquest with the Creeks, Kusatees, and Uchees? Yes, the Cherokees were the Conquistadores of their day.

And after their chiefs sold their lands to the English settlers, they then broke their agreements and made war against those English who purchased the lands for large amounts money, guns, furs, etc.

Everybody made war and conquest with each other back then. It was an ugly history for everyone with a worldview of conquest, Cherokees, English and American settlers included.

And you can blame Pres. Andrew jackson and his Congress for the Trail of Tears. George Washington was fine with everyone staying in their homelands. Jefferson and Lincoln supported the Indians' right to stay too. But Jackson and his Congress passed the bill to pressure them out after overcoming great opposition in Congress. It was a tragedy for all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32163729




If you knew any history you would know that the English (later the "Americans") massively defrauded the Native Americans out of their lands.


They even themselves admitted that (as did the Natives) that a large swath of fertile land could be "bought" by the English in exchange for "singing a song."


Tragedy for everyone? You mean one side is evicted from their own land by the other, but you mean that "everyone" is impacted?

Silly.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26234249



Keep in mind that those frauds were enforced with armed military might.

So Mystery Babylon will fall.
IssueX

User ID: 32540457
United States
01/18/2013 08:06 PM
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Re: Record numbers of citizens leaving USA...
They are leaving the U.S.A. and going where? It is not like there is going to be a picnic in the U.K. either or anything.

Are they "real" Americans, or just naturalized U.S. citizens returning to their home countries?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26234249


they have forgotten

they have been fed a diet of tranquilizers
IssueX

User ID: 32540457
United States
01/18/2013 08:11 PM
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Re: Record numbers of citizens leaving USA...
My father would read me Thomas Jefferson, Mark Twain and Benjamin Franklin growing up

but I forgot so much

a few years ago I had reason to re-read many things I took for granted, and as an adult they had new resonance. I have come to have the most profound respect for the sacrifices made, the intelligence and courage of those who founded the United States

....


"A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader."

-- Samuel Adams, 1779

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it.

In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer.


And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer."
-- Ben Franklin, 1766

"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it,


Almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
-- Patrick Henry

and this:

"They tell us Sir, that we are weak -- unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger?

Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house?

Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot?

Sir, we are not weak, if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature has placed in our power."
[/i
]-- Patrick Henry

Last Edited by IssueX on 01/18/2013 08:15 PM
IssueX

User ID: 14348632
United States
01/18/2013 08:17 PM
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Re: Record numbers of citizens leaving USA...
"These are the times that try men’s souls.

The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their county; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman.

Tyranny like hell is not easily conquered yet we have this consolation with us, the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value."

-- Tom Paine after the Declaration of Independence


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-- Tom Paine
IssueX

User ID: 14348632
United States
01/18/2013 08:20 PM
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Re: Record numbers of citizens leaving USA...
and you realize, it wasn't easy, the odds were against them, and they faced the difficult prospect of fighting neighbors, brothers, cousins...


"We began a contest for liberty ill provided with the means for the war, relying on our patriotism to supply the deficiency. We expected to encounter many wants and distressed… we must bear the present evils and fortitude…"
-- George Washington in 1781


"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by slaves.

Sad alternative! But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?"
-- George Washington in a letter to a friend
s. d. butler

User ID: 974819
United States
01/18/2013 08:50 PM
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Re: Record numbers of citizens leaving USA...
well there I am, contrarian as usual

I'm the one who left in 2002, coming back now

I've always been ahead of the curve

You gotta get busy living, or busy dying, and every place is a prison of sorts

You have to do what you came to do, not cling to a petty illusion of safety

The US is better than people realize...that's exactly why there is so much effort being made to demoralize and diminish the hopes of people here

If the US population weren't a threat, why would they bother?

Turn off the propaganda TV and look around you and realize that heaven is available here and now

Eh?
 Quoting: IssueX


Yeah, I expatriated too and came back. I finally decided there is no better place than the American outback. For a bunch of reasons. No dengue and malaria is the least of it.

Last Edited by s. d. butler on 01/18/2013 08:52 PM
IssueX

User ID: 14348632
United States
01/18/2013 08:56 PM
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Re: Record numbers of citizens leaving USA...
well there I am, contrarian as usual

I'm the one who left in 2002, coming back now

I've always been ahead of the curve

You gotta get busy living, or busy dying, and every place is a prison of sorts

You have to do what you came to do, not cling to a petty illusion of safety

The US is better than people realize...that's exactly why there is so much effort being made to demoralize and diminish the hopes of people here

If the US population weren't a threat, why would they bother?

Turn off the propaganda TV and look around you and realize that heaven is available here and now

Eh?
 Quoting: IssueX


Yeah, I expatriated too and came back. I finally decided there is no better place than the American outback. For a bunch of reasons. No dengue and malaria is the least of it.
 Quoting: s. d. butler


nothing wrong with people seeking greener pastures, wondering if they might fit in better someplace else

hell, that's how half the original immigrants to the US arrived...

I can only speak for myself, but travel and residence overseas made me appreciate so much about the US that I once took for granted

I highly encourage it

And who is to say what is "safe" and what isn't? Safety shouldn't be one's driving motivation. Happiness, fulfillment and love should be

Safety can vanish in a moment, in a coup d'etat, in a change in regime around the world, but you only have one place of your birth, one history you were raised to respect and love

but those are merely my conclusions and I respect that others may feel differently, and that is exactly why I am so glad to be living in this age despite all of it's problems.

We are no longer serfs tied to the land, we have the freedom to pursue other horizons, and good luck to you wherever that may be
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32262295
United States
01/18/2013 09:31 PM
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Re: Record numbers of citizens leaving USA...
...


here as well

I am their worst nightmare

an awakened inner party libtard who emerged from the belly of the beast. I know their tricks, I know where they hide, I have zero fear of leaving this plane and I have nothing to lose

doesn't take many of us

and sometimes, one is safest in the eye of the storm, although safety is not what I seek

peace
 Quoting: IssueX


What made you come back?
 Quoting: Liquid_Pestilence


you move to another country, even one as similar to ours as Canada, and you realize how American you are, how much the story of the revolution and founding fathers resonates in your very outlook

you may not think so , but wait until you live in a place where people never question their government, or are afraid to speak their opinions out loud, or take for granted 300 years of monarchy and corruption

you begin to realize what made the US different is somewhere in your very thought process, and it doesn't matter if you are D or R, not if you really resonated with it

and then you realize life is short, and we all come here for a purpose, maybe to make a stand, and maybe its a well known stand or maybe somerthing that never even makes a line of type, but it's your mission, and your spirit knows it

and sure, you could die safe in someone else's home town, someone else's land, always an outsider, always a refugee of sorts...or you could go home and help draw that human line in the sand

that's me, anyway, and it took me over a decade of hard contemplation and thinking to come to this conclusion, and I know it isn't for everyone, but no one who ever got something worthwhile ever did it without risk or losing a pint of blood or two along the way

best of luck to you, and may fair winds be at your back
 Quoting: IssueX


This is such an awesome way of describing it all. It really is. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I was lucky enough to visit the US twice last year. I fell in love with the country the minute my feet touched ground. It felt like 'coming home' and I don't know why, yet. I spent my first night walking the streets of NYC with a US friend who I had come to visit, because we missed the last train to Jersey and had to wait six hours for the first one to arrive the next morning.

Now another one of my US friends, who I stayed with on my second visit, is making serious plans to move to Oz this year. She wants to get out of the USA ASAP. It is sad. I understand, but I am saddened that so many feel that this is their only hope now.

So, how could those words resonate for an Australian visitor to your beautiful country (because the country is beautiful)? Simply put, it describes the nature of US citizens so perfectly that the words, alone, affected me in such a way that it was as if I was suddenly back there, in person.

The attitude you describe was etched into the souls of everyone I had the pleasure of meeting when I was there. In fact, I think I only ever met one unpleasant American and she was unpleasant to everyone, apparently, so it was nothing out of the ordinary.

The mental outlook described in that post was everywhere and, apart from the incredibly cheap cost of living in comparison to the state I reside in (you guys are paying prices for things that we paid in the early 1980's) it was one of the things that really stood out when I was there.

I remember watching my friend negotiate (ahem) with an employee at a Tim Horton's outlet. She had been overcharged by a dime. One dime. Here in Oz, we would let that kind of thing go, and just deal with it, complaining under our breath but just getting on with the day. My friend? Oh HELL NO! The manager was called; the whole nine yards. I sat in the back of the car and kind of cringed at this behaviour. We all laughed about it later but, really, it was 'just the way it was' in the US, and that is only one example. I noted that NY drivers seemed to give each other the middle finger for an extended period of time; until they knew the recipient had seen it. In some ways, it seemed like a greeting: [insert 'flipping the bird' here] "Morning Asshole. I saw you yesterday" [insert 'flipping the bird' again] "Morning to you, too, asshole". Over here, that kind of thing is performed by a suicidal driver wishing for a massive road rage incident to occur! LOL! In NY it seemed to be 'just a part of driving'.

After a while, I said to my friend "You guys are so lucky, you know?" She asked me why. I said "You guys have the absolute and utter freedom to be yourselves, and you have the absolute and utter freedom to be complete assholes!"

Now, before anyone gets me wrong here, I did not mean it as an insult to my friend at all, because it wasn't an insult at all and she knew it. It was an observation that amounted to the knowledge that you are free. You can be yourselves. You can express yourselves freely. You are not limited in ways that those of us in other countries are. You are not afraid, are proud to be American, and never forget your foundations, no matter what they may be. It was a beautiful thing to see, feel, and experience. It may sound off to some that I see 'the freedom to be an asshole' as a good thing but, I live in a country where expressing oneself as oneself, is extremely limited in comparison to the US, especially when it comes to voicing (or demonstrating) what may be an unpopular opinion. You are free to risk offending others without feeling the need to apologise. You are all equally free to be beautiful to one another. Your freedom to be kind, generous, loving, and neighbourly is as strong as your freedom to be an asshole is. It all works together to create a very unique culture with incredibly strong individuals. It is dynamic, not stagnant. I loved every second of my time in the US.

I do hope that my words do not offend you. They are not meant to. And I think that sentence speaks volumes about my own culture. I feel it necessary to add a clause explaining that I mean no offence. The US citizens I came to know did not feel it necessary to add such a clause to their own words.

Beautiful country, awesome people, incredible post! Thanks for inadvertently sending me back to the US with those words of yours. I really did love the time I spent there and I am horrified to see what is occurring there now. I really am!
 Quoting: Savannah


No offense taken from this American.
It's funny that you mention it my best pin pal is in the UK and adds no offense and is extra cautious of my feelings. I've started to do that too when writing, realizing that maybe she may take something I say in the wrong way.

That was a nice post, thank you.

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