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European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2013 01:54 AM
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European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
just wanting to see if i'm correct or not
Anonymous Coward
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01/17/2013 01:57 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
Eurotards have ZERO idea what libertarianism means, guess thousands of years of noble and royal rulership will do that to your society.

Well, I guess Eurotards idea of libertarianism is that the nobles and kings only rape you vaginally, and not anally.
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
01/17/2013 02:01 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
Eurotards have ZERO idea what libertarianism means, guess thousands of years of noble and royal rulership will do that to your society.

Well, I guess Eurotards idea of libertarianism is that the nobles and kings only rape you vaginally, and not anally.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14840299


Then us eurotards are still better off than you.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
01/17/2013 02:03 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
Eurotards have ZERO idea what libertarianism means, guess thousands of years of noble and royal rulership will do that to your society.

Well, I guess Eurotards idea of libertarianism is that the nobles and kings only rape you vaginally, and not anally.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14840299


Then us eurotards are still better off than you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28983693


Dear God I hope your economy implodes like Spain and Greece you faggoty candy assed Socialist. Or Germany can continue paying you off too.
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
01/17/2013 02:07 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
Eurotards have ZERO idea what libertarianism means, guess thousands of years of noble and royal rulership will do that to your society.

Well, I guess Eurotards idea of libertarianism is that the nobles and kings only rape you vaginally, and not anally.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14840299


Then us eurotards are still better off than you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28983693


Dear God I hope your economy implodes like Spain and Greece you faggoty candy assed Socialist. Or Germany can continue paying you off too.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 14840299


We love you too.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/17/2013 02:36 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
no europeans?
535
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01/17/2013 03:04 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
To be a "liberal", or "libertarianism" tends to be a different definition depending on the country being discussed.

For Americans, the terminology has been skewed in such a way that it is almost indistinguishable from its core meaning.

For example, Americans will define themselves as "liberal" when in fact they would be better described as a European "social democrat". This class believes in democracy with the leanings of leftists, including Communists.

Yet other Americans would define themselves as "liberal" when they could be considered borderline anarchists in Europe. An American with this definition would believe that the U.S. First Amendments means "say what you wish and others may say whatever they wish" and the U.S. Second Amendment means "own whatever personal firearm you wish and others may or may not own as they wish".

For Europeans - in the U.K. for example, the correct terminology would be "liberal conservative" (the equivalent of an American Democrat). A "liberal democrat" would be the equivalent of a far left American Democrat. Essentially a Socialist with the trappings of Communists from the viewpoint of the United States.

A liberal can perhaps be best interpreted, at this time, as an party or individual which practices a very tolerant and open interpretation of individual rights whereas all individuals are essentially required to repress their inherent individuality for the good of the state. The state in turn is assumed to be elected and made up of citizen representatives. It is further assumed that the state apparatus therefore is making and enforcing law for the good of the whole. This would include the precepts of environmentalism, class elimination, and a penchant for pacifism.
Anonymous Coward
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France
01/17/2013 03:04 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
It means idiocracy, neosovietism, failure, blasphemy, depravation, bondage, deception, mediocraty, chaos to summerize it all.
535
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01/17/2013 03:13 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
It means idiocracy, neosovietism, failure, blasphemy, depravation, bondage, deception, mediocraty, chaos to summerize it all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32421617


That is simply a point of view. Others would call it a new and more powerful ordered centre of control so that a new Europe may arise and fulfill its future role on this planet.
Anonymous Coward
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Germany
01/17/2013 03:22 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
For me, libertarianism can be taken literally.

Liberty - freedom

No, i'm not left wing socialist. I don't give a shit about the left-right illusion.
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
01/17/2013 03:23 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
It's the Crowleyite party.
535
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01/17/2013 03:24 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
For me, libertarianism can be taken literally.

Liberty - freedom

No, i'm not left wing socialist. I don't give a shit about the left-right illusion.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8762872


Then you are truly a useful fool. You believe in abstracts but do not care about their potential application and repercussions in the real world. This is excellent.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32421617
France
01/17/2013 03:28 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
It means idiocracy, neosovietism, failure, blasphemy, depravation, bondage, deception, mediocraty, chaos to summerize it all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32421617


That is simply a point of view. Others would call it a new and more powerful ordered centre of control so that a new Europe may arise and fulfill its future role on this planet.
 Quoting: 535 7977681


The difference with the US's is that european's libetarianism has rejected God, so it binds with luciferianism, therefore it tends to the extreme left mixed with anarchism.
535
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01/17/2013 03:33 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
It means idiocracy, neosovietism, failure, blasphemy, depravation, bondage, deception, mediocraty, chaos to summerize it all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32421617


That is simply a point of view. Others would call it a new and more powerful ordered centre of control so that a new Europe may arise and fulfill its future role on this planet.
 Quoting: 535 7977681


The difference with the US's is that european's libetarianism has rejected God, so it binds with luciferianism, therefore it tends to the extreme left mixed with anarchism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32421617


Fortunately, the extreme left and extreme right tend to meet in essentially the same spot where the apparatus of the state becomes all powerful.

This is your future. Relish in it.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32421617
France
01/17/2013 03:37 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
It means idiocracy, neosovietism, failure, blasphemy, depravation, bondage, deception, mediocraty, chaos to summerize it all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32421617


That is simply a point of view. Others would call it a new and more powerful ordered centre of control so that a new Europe may arise and fulfill its future role on this planet.
 Quoting: 535 7977681


The difference with the US's is that european's libetarianism has rejected God, so it binds with luciferianism, therefore it tends to the extreme left mixed with anarchism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32421617


Fortunately, the extreme left and extreme right tend to meet in essentially the same spot where the apparatus of the state becomes all powerful.

This is your future. Relish in it.
 Quoting: 535 7977681


You right, this is EU's future, it means civil war and destruction.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 19156676
United States
01/17/2013 03:41 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
To be a "liberal", or "libertarianism" tends to be a different definition depending on the country being discussed.

For Americans, the terminology has been skewed in such a way that it is almost indistinguishable from its core meaning.

For example, Americans will define themselves as "liberal" when in fact they would be better described as a European "social democrat". This class believes in democracy with the leanings of leftists, including Communists.

Yet other Americans would define themselves as "liberal" when they could be considered borderline anarchists in Europe. An American with this definition would believe that the U.S. First Amendments means "say what you wish and others may say whatever they wish" and the U.S. Second Amendment means "own whatever personal firearm you wish and others may or may not own as they wish".

For Europeans - in the U.K. for example, the correct terminology would be "liberal conservative" (the equivalent of an American Democrat). A "liberal democrat" would be the equivalent of a far left American Democrat. Essentially a Socialist with the trappings of Communists from the viewpoint of the United States.

A liberal can perhaps be best interpreted, at this time, as an party or individual which practices a very tolerant and open interpretation of individual rights whereas all individuals are essentially required to repress their inherent individuality for the good of the state. The state in turn is assumed to be elected and made up of citizen representatives. It is further assumed that the state apparatus therefore is making and enforcing law for the good of the whole. This would include the precepts of environmentalism, class elimination, and a penchant for pacifism.
 Quoting: 535 7977681


Thanks 535 and French AC!

Yeah political terms here in the are skewed and far removed from original meanings. I was in another thread and was trying to reason with a poster that the term depends on the person using it. Then stated that libertarian, the word, had its origins in anarcho communism.


Here is what is said

Todays definition of Classical liberal (from the enlightenment, Locke, jefferson, madison, bastiat,) = libertarianism. when did the term libertarian start showing up in the US? 1960's and 1970's made popular by Murray Rothbard. He wanted to disassociate from classical liberal because of how the new left commandeered the word liberal.

I read this in some history book. When was libertarian used before then? i didn't say the modern libertarians in the US were commies. i said the word libertarian comes from communist origins. that is why in modern europe when you talk about libertarianism they associate it with the socialist left and communism
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/17/2013 03:45 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
maybe i should say anarchist origins
Funney

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Czech Republic
01/17/2013 04:54 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
by our standards:

The origins of liberalism back to the Enlightenment,
the emergence of a free view of the world,
and its application in philosophy and politics.

Liberalism wants to liberate society from ideologies that seek to defend the necessity of Oppression
(example: "All is by the grace of God").

The basis of this political philosophy is an individual,
a citizen who has the greatest freedom.

Freedom is a liberal by conviction foundation of society in which the state, politics and economy lie and that the state protects. Where does personal freedom ends state power, which can intervene only when personal liberty is violated.

hf

we already experienced hard socialism in our history
so it is a sort of social evolution, where we are now stuck with capitalism cannibalists.. money talks, money drives, money thefths.. nothing productive here, only solving their own criminal cases in politics.. to be pure.. and then next 4 years those same prolonging tactics to make money.. not help people.. se we try to be liberal, but have troubles with corrupt politicians as you see

this year will be full of LIFE vs MONEY thing
important values times are comming
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
Contrarian's Contrarian

User ID: 31033756
Netherlands
01/17/2013 05:13 AM

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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
The 3 biggest streams in European political thinking are liberalism, christian-democracy, and social-democracy, which all come in a number of varieties.
All three are a synthesis of classical liberalism and other influences.

Hard libertarianism never was particularly popular.
Freedom is an important right, but individual rights always overlap and are in conflict.
So somehow somebody has to delineate the borders between individual rights.
The how and the who is a subject of constant debate.
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Ostria1

User ID: 29325791
Greece
01/17/2013 05:35 AM

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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
by our standards:

The origins of liberalism back to the Enlightenment,
the emergence of a free view of the world,
and its application in philosophy and politics.

 Quoting: Funney


This. You have to understand what was europe like before the Enlightenment era in order to understand why we see terms like democrats, socials, libertarians etc different than the rest outside Europe.
Or why we see Germany under the Nazis as a right totalitarian regime and nothing to do with socialists (at least as we mean them today), as we also see commumism as a left totalitarian regime.
Just keep in mind that political "Self-determinations" could be misleading and determinations in general, should always be measured by the results they give.
Ostria
Anonymous Coward
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Japan
01/17/2013 05:38 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
"Liberal" in Western Europe is something
different than in the USA,
Liberal means responsibility for the unfortunate
and the whole Society but in the US it is
only a selfish View on our whole Planet!

Real Liberalism cant work in the US because
there are too many different social Classes!
Anonymous Coward
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United States
01/17/2013 05:41 AM
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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
maybe i should say anarchist origins
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 19156676



The Thracian known as Spartacus.

He was a Slave, just a Single Individual.

But he started a Rebellion that stood up to Rome.
Wizard's First Rule

User ID: 31648395
United States
01/19/2013 10:01 PM

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Re: European posters, what does libertarianism mean in your politics and the origins of it?
After reading this thread, it's obvious how little people really know about American Libertarianism. Libertarianism in the US is actually anti-statist. It has nothing to do with liberals (or what Europeans consider Social Democrats). US liberals and conservatives are statists. Libertarians are not.
Wizard's Rule #1: "People are stupid. Given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. People will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
Primordial Rule: "The rule unwritten. It is the secret of all life. It is the essence of life itself. You are a creator and master of your own reality. You ultimately make your own rules."
All the Wizard's Rules: [link to sot.wikia.com]

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