.223 5.56x45 rounds were designed to wound a person or enemy soldier look it up people

The 30.06 round was too effective against the Krauts and Japs.

Exactly why tyrants are afraid of them. Our founders didn't think camels would take away our rights every 100 years and need to be overthrown. I suggest if you are so good at looking things up look up some of the founders papers on the subject. I know they were just old white guys along tome ago, they couldn't tell it was going to happen, oh shit evidently they did.

.308 or 30-06 compensates for their errors nicely

As was the 9MM...

Point being?

...lol .30-06 is Too effective against any living thing

There is a difference between wounded and mortally wounded. The target location is everything. Obviously if it only clips the head of your dick you will only be wounded.

And I too have killed several in in Iraq with 5.56, I did many of small kill teams, do your research .223 5.56x45 was designed to wound a enemy combative and there fore taking a medic out of the battle and the men who carry and take care of the wounded.

What's your point stupid? Don't come here proposing to know more about this shit than gun enthusiasts.

The 30-06 was designed as a military caliber as well. It wasn't designed to wound, however, but to massively kill.

It is now one of the most popular hunting cartridges in history.

Likewise, the .223 is an excellent varmint round and is also used against small predators. In some states it is a deer round and in it's heaviest itterations does fine at moderate ranges in that role.

How many civilians have been killed by the .223 round in the last 10 years? How many have been killed by knives in that same time period? I ask again, what's your point?

M4A1 14 up, 15 down
A firearm derived from the M16A2/A4, commonly thought to be an extremely reliable and "1337" weapon. In actuality, the M4A1 (and M16 line, for that matter) requires constant cleaning and maintenance, and is extremely susceptible to jamming from sand and dust. Careful maintenance, however, can negate these negative effects.

It should also be noted that the M16/M4 fires the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge, a bullet designed to WOUND, not KILL a target. The 5.56mm's lack of stopping power is proving problematic when faced with less squad-oriented enemies (this was noticed particularly in the 1993 conflict in Somalia and today in the Middle East). The 5.56mm was designed to basically incapacitate three men with one shot-- the wounded soldier, the medic that's supposed to work on him, and the soldier's friend/medic's assistant. Now, however, UN and NATO forces are facing insurgents that don't actually field treat dead or wounded.
"In July 2007, the US Army announced a limited competition between the M4A1 carbine, FN SCAR, HK416, and the previously-shelved HK XM8. Ten examples of each of the four competitors were involved. Each weapon was fired for 6,000 rounds in an "extreme dust environment." The purpose of the shootoff was for assessing future needs, not to select a replacement for the M4.34 The XM8 scored the best, with only 127 stoppages in 6,000 total rounds, the MK16 SCAR Light had 226 stoppages, while the HK416 had 233 stoppages. The M4 carbine scored "significantly worse" than the rest of the field with 882 stoppages. The results have been thrown into question due to the M4 scoring 307 jams in a previous dust chamber test conducted only a few months before with the same conditions and lubrication."

Don't have to. I'm not doubting you but a headshot then you would know would most likely be deadly. The velocity obviously is the only thing 22 caliber has going for it.

Very true.

But, the libs aren't interested in facts or ballistics.

The media wont do their due diligence and report the truth or the facts about the design 5.56/.223 round.

Heck, I even heard Geraldo Rivera say on the radio that he knows gun collectors and none of them would ever own an AR-15. They are just too powerful. He said, "they shoot a .223 round! That's the most powerful round out there!"

Idiot.

This isn't about reality.

It's about manipulating perception and making perception reality.

You can't sell anyone who doesn't know on why you need 30 rounds in a mag because 10 rounds is way more than enough to kill twenty people or more.

.223.

1 shot, one kill.

Now THAT is a magic bullet theory.

So from all this then my 30 carbine is equivilent despite the loss of range but makes up in caliber and fell under the same wimpy description.

Very true, and against an enemy that operates similar to ours it works just this way. Unfortunately the Viet Cong operated "a little differently" so this effect was minimized. But also the ammo is much lighter than 30-06 so one can carry more rounds, and the weapon itself is lighter than say a BAR. If I had someone to hump ammo cans, I choose the BAR hands down.

Full metal jacket = designed for this very purpose

To the OP I say



.223 was originally called ".222 Special" it was a wildcat varmint round which was adopted for the Armalite rifle which later became the AR-15. It's big brother was the AR-10 which was chambered for the .308 round, itself a development of the .30/06 cartridge as a compromise between the service rifle calibre (.30/06, .303, German 7.92mm) and the newer .30 calibre "Assault Rifle" cartridges such as 7.62 x 39mm and the original German 7.92mm Kurz).

.223 is NOT designed purely for wounding - it's designed for hunting varmints like coyotes and foxes. The 5.56mm NATO round based on the .223 has projectiles which were optimised for wounding - being base heavy they are designed to tumble on impact with soft flesh. The tumbling action cavitates as much as a "dum dum" round, thus circumventing the whole "hollow-points being against the Geneva Conventions" issue. The Russians did the same with their 5.45 mm round for the AK74 series of rifles in the 1970s.

So as you can plainly see from the above, the OP is full of shit from the waist up.

Technically true, but...

Any upper body shot virtually turns your insides into hamburger due to the tumbling properties of the round. Specifically designed for massive and multiple internal trauma. In effect, a slower death but death none the less. As stated, one benefit is to take support personell out of the fight while tending to your wounds/ safety.

Another reason it was adopted was due to the doctrine of spray and pray being accepted as a viable means of delivering fire. The lighter rounds allow more ammo to be carried.

I wouldn't doubt that some of you heard the, "designed to wound" story in boot camp and believe it with all your heart and soul.

I'm a Navy vet so I won't pretend to be some Infantry killer. But I have been interested in rifles and shooting my entire life. My father was a life member of the Army Ordnance Society, my oldest brother has the patent on the key feature of the first successful 105MM Discarding Sabot Anti-tank round that won his company that contract.

Having said that all weapons have design requirements and involve trade-offs. The AR-15/16 has inferior lethality to the weapons it replaced. This was accepted primarily for two reasons.

The M-14 rifle, and basically every battle rifle back to the civil war, injures the soldier who fires it. In an extended fight a soldier will come out of it with a severely painful and bruised soldier. Once the soldier is in that condition he will be unable to properly place the stock of the weapon against his shoulder reducing his accuracy. The smaller you are the worse you'll be hurt.

In comparison the AR-15/16 rifle can be fired until all ammunition is expended without injuring the shooter. The other benefit of this obviously is that you can carry more ammunition.

I think it is laughable (IMHO) from the standpoint of an infantry soldier that it is preferable to wound rather than kill an enemy. Personally speaking, I would like the guy to disintegrate after being hit in the little finger.

I would also prefer to kill all three people who were going to help him from the battle field and each of the three that were going to help those three. If you kill enough of them the rest will surrender. Then there will be nobody except EPWS and dead guys. Fact.

That's terrible!