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Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 08:44 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
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Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 08:45 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I think that whenever you mix politics with religion, you are treading in dangerous water. I personally never understood this 'Christian militarism'. It's a very perplexing mixture of idealism and personal obligation.
Sometimes we have to draw the line between what is perosnal belief, and what it means to be patriotic. It's a somewhat scary idea to me that anyone would take their own idea of what it means to be American, and just automatically conclude that this is a Christian nation.
What of the rest of the country that doesn't subscribe to your belief, are we somehow counterproductive? Does anyone who disagrees with how you think, automatically become "the enemy"?

For as much hate as I am going to get especially on this thread, this board.. I really don't feel the same way you do. Does that make me any less American? Not at all. If I'm not mistaken, this country was founded on the idea that religion was an entanglement that we sought to break free of when this nation was founded. You need not look any further than the constitution itself.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8793442


Nice ploy there with the use of bogus 'they're the haters BS' and the ensuing therefore 'I'm a victim' BS.

The US was established by masons. They are religious, they worship Lucifer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32540270


You see, not everyone believes in superstition. And what if Satan is a metaphor? Have you ever thought about what you would believe if none of that stuff wasn't real?
Are you a mason, or let me guess, you read a book by a conspiracy theorist. It must be all true, because people aren't trying to sell you those books or anything.
Take lucifer and masons and illuminati out of the equation and what are you left with? Fundamentalism, extreemism and paranoia.
I'm not the crazy one here. I'm saying that religious wars have always ended negatively, especially when the enemy is make believe. Who are you against, the idea of an evil personified? Crazy.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 08:46 AM
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another BS post by a heathen.
Rising Son (OP)
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01/19/2013 09:06 AM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I graduated high school almost two years ago.
Originally, I had every intent on joining the marine corps.
I still think about it some times. Even tonight at work there was something that caused it to cross my mind.
I think that there are ways that it could incredibly benefit me and my future family.
But then i think about what Christ said, and about what we are told to do in this brief life we have.
I heard the great commission tonight on the radio.
(local christian station i listen to)

Matthew 28:18-20 (esv)
And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obserbe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Originally i wanted to join the corps out of respect and honor for our nation, and an underlying sense of patriotism I have always had for this country.

Then I learned about what really happened on 9/11.
Then I read about northwoods.
Operation stellar wind.
Bengazi.
The floridation.
The experiments on the people in saint lewis.
The gulf of tonkin.
Cia Drug trafficing.
I actually read the patriot act and the ndaa and ndra.
I stumbled across the trespass act. (hr.347 i believe)
The blatant and clear censoring done by the media to fix the masses position, and when actual reporting is done, it is not reported. (look up amber lyon.)

On and on i stumbled through all of this. Everything that I had once thought or known to be true; everything that I had been told and lead to believe in high school: a complete sham.

Well... Nearly all of it.. I'm still pretty sure we won the revolutionary war... but the war of 1812 really did us in..
Thats another conversation though.

I have been thinking about this decision and what to do with my life for an incredible amount of time and I still wish to join the corps.

But for different reasons.

I feel that the marine corps needs Jesus Christ just as much as anyone else, if not more so. And I wish to be there to minister to fellow brothers. Especially in the times that lay ahead.

Although, I cannot come to a decision.

Christ told us that a man who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. (Matthew 26:52)

He also told us to turn the other cheek.

Everything that I have read and learned about the military industrial complex leads me to the conclussion that we (America) generate wars to create conflict and profit.

We take from the less fortunate and find a scapegoat.

Christ also told us that a house divided against itself, cannot, and will not stand. (Mark 3:25)

(serving Christ [the church] or serving the empire [enlisting])

Everything in my bones is telling me to pack up and leave for pendleton. But then I remember what Christ said. There is an internal battle going on and I just do not know sometimes. But then others days it seems crystal clear.

Then i look at the presidency, and coming end times prophecy. We are at the doorstep. Or so it seems at times.
But then again, we could be another hundred years off.
I have absoultely no idea. As men, we need to provide for our families, and in our current economy, the military is incredibly attractive.

But then I think about the commander in cheif, who is number one and ultimately decides our policy (ideally).
[barack "barry" obama; some say he is the anti christ; i really have no idea at this point]
I think about how he supports the muslim brotherhood (sending them f-15 fighter jets) ; How he sent the syrian rebels ammunition and arms to fight and cause harm and destrucion. How he is trying to take away the american peoples rights left and right. How he watched on a monitor as an american ambassador was murdered, and how he fired those who were willing to intervene. How he willingly supports the murder of innocent children thourgh aborition and how he is the only president in history to bow to a saudi (muslim) king, showing complete submission.

I think about these things every. single. day.

One of my best friends enlisted and wanted me to go with him. I almost did. But something kept me back. Something lingering in my mind. I still do not know what it was. But i feel we are in for something truly apocalytic.

These are my thoughts... I hope you can take something away from them.

In the meantime, I will be praying for you and our fellow service men.

I will see you in the kingdom of heaven brother.

May God's grace be poured out into your life, and may you walk and follow his statues and commandments that he may bless you.

I do not mean to trouble you with any of this, but they are serious issue that need to be thought about, mediatated on, and prayed about.

I pray you find resolution in this matter.
 Quoting: your brother in Christ 26665965


My brother, thank you for sharing yourself with me and with others. I cannot tell you what to do, and I believe that you are doing right by following where your heart and the Holy Spirit lead you. I had a great amount of opposition when I joined, for many of the reasons that are brought up in this thread. However, I think they saw that I would come to this point, and they tried to talk me out of it so that I would not have to be caught in such a conundrum.

While I do not know what the right path for you is, and I would never pretend to know what God's plan for any of us is, have you thought about becoming a Chaplain in the Navy (Officer) or a Religious Person - RP (Enlisted)? I have thought about how different my life would be if I decided to go that route instead of this one, but I do not regret joining the Marine Corps, and I can truly say that I have been blessed to have met and served with some of the greatest men and women I have ever had the opportunity to know.

With that being said, the Chaps that I have met and come to know have truly helped me through some very dark times, and they have helped me understand that I am a sinner, but that I have a merciful and forgiving Father. I will never forget the things I have done, and I don't know if I will ever forgive myself, but I can say that the Marine Corps is a family, and the Navy Chaplains are spiritual guides that have helped me become closer to God, despite what I have done to disobey Him.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 09:11 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.
 Quoting: Rising Son


If the majority of the marines are like minded. stay there and stand for your values. If you are representing a minority, you wiil be forced to act against your values and would better quit.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 09:20 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.
 Quoting: Rising Son


My opinion is first of all start off with lots of prayer! Secondly I would say that Bible prophecy/God's Will are going to come to pass whether we'd like them to or not, as God's plans must be fulfilled, and we know that based on that a "New world order" so to speak will prevail in the end days. I believe that we are at a period in time, that Bible prophecy must come to pass and there is no stopping what's before us. As far your duty as a soldier, etc. I would say that the most important thing you can do as a SOLDIER for Christ, is arm people with the Gospel, and lead them to the cross for salvation. I would not condone violence or taking another persons life under ANY circumstances, because after much prayer I believe that this God's will for us as Christians which I could provide you several scriptures for.

(Genesis 9:6, 2 Corinthians 10:4, Ephesians 6:10-20, Matthew 26:52, Matthew 5:39)

Hope that helps.

Blessings.
anonimalle

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01/19/2013 09:23 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.
 Quoting: Rising Son


My son was killed a year ago and in the last two years 4 more young men our neighborhood have died. In the last days there will be a battle between good and evil. I believe that God is building up an army in heaven.

Everyone makes choices in life, my choice is to defend my Christian way of life, my family and my country. Choose wisely because there will not be a second chance.
Behind every myth lies a mystery, and every legend holds an echo of the truth …… anonimalle

" At the siege of Vienna in 1683 Islam seemed poised to overrun Christian Europe. We are in a new phase of a very old war."

Gates of Vienna.

"May we smite our enemies to the darkest chamber of hell, for we wish only to live in peace, and they desire only to put their boot upon our neck."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1150601
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01/19/2013 09:30 AM
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12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

James 5
King James Version

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Matthew 5
King James Version
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 09:39 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Christian warrior? I will call you "Sheep fighter"
Rising Son (OP)
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

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01/19/2013 09:44 AM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Christian warrior? I will call you "Sheep fighter"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32576143


The name matters not, it is what you believe and do that identifies you. What you said reminded me of the quote from the movie Robin Hood: "Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions."
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Rising Son (OP)
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

User ID: 32269124
United States
01/19/2013 09:47 AM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.
 Quoting: Rising Son


My son was killed a year ago and in the last two years 4 more young men our neighborhood have died. In the last days there will be a battle between good and evil. I believe that God is building up an army in heaven.

Everyone makes choices in life, my choice is to defend my Christian way of life, my family and my country. Choose wisely because there will not be a second chance.
 Quoting: anonimalle


I am sorry for your loss, and I hope that you know that your son stood for something far greater than himself. Thank you for sharing him with us, I am certain we are the better for it :-)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
T-Cain
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01/19/2013 09:49 AM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Don't listen to what they're saying, because it's all lies. Look at what they are doing. They're turning real patriotic Americans into the enemy. Use the brain that God gave you. I'm not particularly a bible thumping believer, but it's going to be very interesting to see what the leader will be doing at the 6 month mark, which would leave him 3.5 years.....Will the AntiChrist be revealed?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32415920


yeah, military people are conditioned to unquestioningly accept orders, to be loyal killing machines, so when satan occupies the authority position, who's bidding are you doing and who is it you're killing?

I appreciate the OPs hopes and conscientousness, but you have to know what Henry Kissinger said about military men, they all think that about you. I don't. You need to be more sceptical.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32540270


My son just returned from Army, infantry boot camp. They took a good patriotic young man and turned him into a killer with superior tactical knowledge and gave him an implied license to kill.
I don't appreciate that his commander in chief is a userper, America-hating syndicate, Chicago-machine, crime boss worse than Al Capone.
If today the Boss were to order up all state National Guard and Regulars, he'd be enforcing unconstitutional confiscation laws against former law abiding citizens. That order is not long in coming.
Residing in my very house is my potential enemy and well-trained murderer.
There's not much greater insult than this present government turning our Sons and Daughters against their civilian families and neighbors by use of their armed force to dispossess us of our individual, potential armed defense.
What has become of my country when I can't trust family, government, law enforcement or my fellow citizens to not tread on my liberties or right to my own security and privacy of my person, family, possessions and papers?
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 09:53 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
little choir boy is a rebel
Rising Son (OP)
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

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01/19/2013 09:54 AM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Don't listen to what they're saying, because it's all lies. Look at what they are doing. They're turning real patriotic Americans into the enemy. Use the brain that God gave you. I'm not particularly a bible thumping believer, but it's going to be very interesting to see what the leader will be doing at the 6 month mark, which would leave him 3.5 years.....Will the AntiChrist be revealed?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32415920


yeah, military people are conditioned to unquestioningly accept orders, to be loyal killing machines, so when satan occupies the authority position, who's bidding are you doing and who is it you're killing?

I appreciate the OPs hopes and conscientousness, but you have to know what Henry Kissinger said about military men, they all think that about you. I don't. You need to be more sceptical.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32540270


My son just returned from Army, infantry boot camp. They took a good patriotic young man and turned him into a killer with superior tactical knowledge and gave him an implied license to kill.
I don't appreciate that his commander in chief is a userper, America-hating syndicate, Chicago-machine, crime boss worse than Al Capone.
If today the Boss were to order up all state National Guard and Regulars, he'd be enforcing unconstitutional confiscation laws against former law abiding citizens. That order is not long in coming.
Residing in my very house is my potential enemy and well-trained murderer.
There's not much greater insult than this present government turning our Sons and Daughters against their civilian families and neighbors by use of their armed force to dispossess us of our individual, potential armed defense.
What has become of my country when I can't trust family, government, law enforcement or my fellow citizens to not tread on my liberties or right to my own security and privacy of my person, family, possessions and papers?
 Quoting: T-Cain


That is a terrible thing to say about your own son. You act as though he were dead, or that he is not worth loving anymore. Why did your son join the Army? Moreover, if you are this angry and averse to the President, then why did you allow him to join? Did he do so against your will? You are driving a wedge between you and your son, and it was only because he wanted to make you proud of him.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 09:54 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
The intent of your country was originally peace and freedom for all. You fought within yourselves to achieve this for all of your peoples who live under the sacred tenet of your truth – which is freedom, and liberty, justice, equality under God.

When you remove God, it is like denying the power that gives life to these tenets, and you become just as any other objective to those who seek dominion: to dominate you.

Your power comes from God. The birth of your consciousness, as a nation, was and is empowered by faith – by faith in God. Those who were (and are) the founders of that consciousness, who sought to demarcate this in a declaration, knew this, know it, saw it ... and see it, for it lives on.

We encourage you not to believe in the forces that seek to limit you; do not believe that yours is a nation on a path to death. Yours is a nation, symbolically and literally, expressing the struggle, the pains of growth.

Many things that are endearing to your intent, your ideal, are being challenged. Then rise up together and reclaim these. Give life to them. Your shelter is God. It is in all that your country stands for. It is that which others before you have stood and proclaimed: We are one nation, indivisible. We stand before you, who would seek to divide and conquer us, and whether we endure past this conflict or nay, we continue on eternally for what we believe and our ideal. And these are among the righteous who shall return with our Brother. This, we assure you, will come to pass!
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 09:55 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Moronic thread. The Constitution allows people to "go against the Constitution." That's why amendments can be made and removed. To say one can't go against the Second Amendment and be pro-Constitution is the position which is against the Constitution and founding fathers.
Rising Son (OP)
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01/19/2013 10:00 AM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Moronic thread. The Constitution allows people to "go against the Constitution." That's why amendments can be made and removed. To say one can't go against the Second Amendment and be pro-Constitution is the position which is against the Constitution and founding fathers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


You regard Amendments in the wrong way. They are more like additions to the constitution than corrections. They should have been called addendums, not amendments. What part of the original constitution does the Second Amendment contradict?
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

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Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 10:01 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Today, when a concerted effort is made to obliterate this point, it cannot be repeated too often that the Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals—that it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government—that it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizens’ protection against the government.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 10:02 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
What happens when the lambs become slaves? Oh shit,that already happened
.that's why there's so many jaded fucks like me out there.
I dont follow a young,plagiarized religion..if u want to compare...
Twilight...is to Bran Stoker's Dracula, what
Christianity beliefs is to Egyptian (or insert another religion of choice here) beliefs. Sorry for the comparison..or.lack there of..but u get my point..just back then..they had alot less ideas to steal and make $$$ off of you.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 10:03 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Moronic thread. The Constitution allows people to "go against the Constitution." That's why amendments can be made and removed. To say one can't go against the Second Amendment and be pro-Constitution is the position which is against the Constitution and founding fathers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


You regard Amendments in the wrong way. They are more like additions to the constitution than corrections. They should have been called addendums, not amendments. What part of the original constitution does the Second Amendment contradict?
 Quoting: Rising Son


No, moron. The thing is you are saying people can't go against the Constitution as it is today. But the fact that it ALLOWS change and allows amendments (which can later be removed) shows that discussion of change is not against the Constitution. You are trying to stop the process the Constitution allows, and that is where it is against the Constitution itself. It wants people to change things if the need comes, and not feel locked in. To say political speech is to be stopped if it goes against the current form of the Constitution is to go against that very Constitution which guarantees free political speech (and disagreement with the Constitution). You want to stop that. And that is where you fail to understand anything.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 10:05 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
"Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right. It may be said, that the succeeding generation exercising, in fact, the power of repeal, this leaves them as free as if the constitution or law had been expressly limited to nineteen years only. In the first place, this objection admits the right, in proposing an equivalent. But the power of repeal is not an equivalent. It might be, indeed, if every form of government were so perfectly contrived, that the will of the majority could always be obtained, fairly and without impediment. But this is true of no form. The people cannot assemble themselves; their representation is unequal and vicious. Various checks are opposed to every legislative proposition. Factions get possession of the public councils, bribery corrupts them, personal interests lead them astray from the general interests of their constituents; and other impediments arise, so as to prove to every practical man, that a law of limited duration is much more manageable than one which needs a repeal." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1789. ME 7:459, Papers 15:396

"Let us provide in our constitution for its revision at stated periods. What these periods should be nature herself indicates. By the European tables of mortality, of the adults living at any one moment of time, a majority will be dead in about nineteen years. At the end of that period, then, a new majority is come into place; or, in other words, a new generation. Each generation is as independent as the one preceding, as that was of all which had gone before. It has then, like them, a right to choose for itself the form of government it believes most promotive of its own happiness; consequently, to accommodate to the circumstances in which it finds itself that received from its predecessors; and it is for the peace and good of mankind that a solemn opportunity of doing this every nineteen or twenty years should be provided by the constitution, so that it may be handed on with periodical repairs from generation to generation to the end of time, if anything human can so long endure." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. ME 15:42

"Forty years [after a] Constitution... was formed,... two-thirds of the adults then living are... dead. Have, then, the remaining third, even if they had the wish, the right to hold in obedience to their will and to laws heretofore made by them, the other two-thirds who with themselves compose the present mass of adults? If they have not, who has? The dead? But the dead have no rights. They are nothing, and nothing can not own something. Where there is no substance, there can be no accident [i.e., attribute]." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Kercheval, 1816. (*) ME 15:42

"The idea that institutions established for the use of the nation cannot be touched nor modified even to make them answer their end because of rights gratuitously supposed in those employed to manage them in trust for the public, may perhaps be a salutary provision against the abuses of a monarch but is most absurd against the nation itself. Yet our lawyers and priests generally inculcate this doctrine and suppose that preceding generations held the earth more freely than we do, had a right to impose laws on us unalterable by ourselves, and that we in like manner can make laws and impose burdens on future generations which they will have no right to alter; in fine, that the earth belongs to the dead and not the living." --Thomas Jefferson to William Plumer, 1816. ME 15:46

"A generation may bind itself as long as its majority continues in life; when that has disappeared, another majority is in place, holds all the rights and powers their predecessors once held and may change their laws and institutions to suit themselves. Nothing then is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man." --Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. ME 16:4

"The generations of men may be considered as bodies or corporations. Each generation has the usufruct of the earth during the period of its continuance. When it ceases to exist, the usufruct passes on to the succeeding generation free and unencumbered and so on successively from one generation to another forever. We may consider each generation as a distinct nation, with a right, by the will of its majority, to bind themselves, but none to bind the succeeding generation, more than the inhabitants of another country." --Thomas Jefferson to John Wayles Eppes, 1813. ME 13:270
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 19004483
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01/19/2013 10:06 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
SEMPER FI! Marine.

For Standing, and being Honest.

When Christ admonished Peter, he said "those that live by the sword", meaning those that make money of off carrying a gun, will die by the sword.

The reason he stopped Peter, is because Peter was still having issues with him giving his life up on Peters behalf.

John 15:13.

Marine. They are going to hold our children hostage, as a way to manipulate the population. What would Christ say to you, if you saw War come here, and you did nothing? I dont hear the MARINE CORPS in the word "NOTHING". Do YOU?

IF, and WHEN, ANYONE moves on our People, for any reason, under ANY circumstances, while CLEAR and PRESENT danger is self evident, the TRUE MARINES will do what needs to be done.

They are going to appear to be helping. They might use the leasing of the RFID, and acting like friends. LISTEN to their words carefully, in reflection of the Rights of the People. DEFEND!

FOR GOD. FOR COUNTRY.

Keep your Honor clean.

We are now in the Fog of War.

Semper Fi!

Godspeed!
Rising Son (OP)
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

User ID: 32269124
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01/19/2013 10:10 AM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Moronic thread. The Constitution allows people to "go against the Constitution." That's why amendments can be made and removed. To say one can't go against the Second Amendment and be pro-Constitution is the position which is against the Constitution and founding fathers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


You regard Amendments in the wrong way. They are more like additions to the constitution than corrections. They should have been called addendums, not amendments. What part of the original constitution does the Second Amendment contradict?
 Quoting: Rising Son


No, moron. The thing is you are saying people can't go against the Constitution as it is today. But the fact that it ALLOWS change and allows amendments (which can later be removed) shows that discussion of change is not against the Constitution. You are trying to stop the process the Constitution allows, and that is where it is against the Constitution itself. It wants people to change things if the need comes, and not feel locked in. To say political speech is to be stopped if it goes against the current form of the Constitution is to go against that very Constitution which guarantees free political speech (and disagreement with the Constitution). You want to stop that. And that is where you fail to understand anything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


What need is there to change the Second Amendment? Do you believe that restricting or eliminating it all together will reduce violence? It is clear to me you have never served in a military unit, because you do not rush into the teeth of your enemy's defense, you find their gaps. Violent people will still find a way to kill, and destroying the Second Amendment simply makes it easier for them to do so - because they know law abiding citizens will follows the rules, while they clearly will not, as evidenced by their desire to murder.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
CleverMoniker
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01/19/2013 10:15 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend...However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable.

 Quoting: Rising Son


You've been brainwashed by a relentless 5-year long campaign by the Republican powers that be to convince you of that.

If you can disassociate yourself from all that conditioning, even for a minute, and take a look at what is *actually being done* instead of what you fear *will* be done, you might just reconnect with reality.

Because the *actual* measures being presented by the President are the neutered, milktoast policies of a President who is carefully tiptoing around the NRA.

It's the same as Obamacare. What the left base *actually wanted* was a single payer system. What that great tyrant Obama (lol) presented was instead a horribly neutered version of what he actually wanted to do, because he's more concerned about being liked than he is about fulfilling the wishes of his party.

Years from now you're going to look back at these days and you're going to be embarrassed by how childish, how cowardly you acted. Like a little boy afraid of monsters in his closet, you tremble in fear of things born from your own imagination.

Get some self control, and stop acting like a child.
Rising Son (OP)
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

User ID: 32269124
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01/19/2013 10:22 AM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend...However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable.

 Quoting: Rising Son


You've been brainwashed by a relentless 5-year long campaign by the Republican powers that be to convince you of that.

If you can disassociate yourself from all that conditioning, even for a minute, and take a look at what is *actually being done* instead of what you fear *will* be done, you might just reconnect with reality.

Because the *actual* measures being presented by the President are the neutered, milktoast policies of a President who is carefully tiptoing around the NRA.

It's the same as Obamacare. What the left base *actually wanted* was a single payer system. What that great tyrant Obama (lol) presented was instead a horribly neutered version of what he actually wanted to do, because he's more concerned about being liked than he is about fulfilling the wishes of his party.

Years from now you're going to look back at these days and you're going to be embarrassed by how childish, how cowardly you acted. Like a little boy afraid of monsters in his closet, you tremble in fear of things born from your own imagination.

Get some self control, and stop acting like a child.
 Quoting: CleverMoniker 19931300


You do not appear capable of recognizing patterns, or intentions for that matter. Given your country of origin, I am not surprised. What you fail to see or understand is that tyranny does not come all at once, it comes as a wolf in sheep's clothing.
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 3050697
United States
01/19/2013 10:23 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Moronic thread. The Constitution allows people to "go against the Constitution." That's why amendments can be made and removed. To say one can't go against the Second Amendment and be pro-Constitution is the position which is against the Constitution and founding fathers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


You regard Amendments in the wrong way. They are more like additions to the constitution than corrections. They should have been called addendums, not amendments. What part of the original constitution does the Second Amendment contradict?
 Quoting: Rising Son


No, moron. The thing is you are saying people can't go against the Constitution as it is today. But the fact that it ALLOWS change and allows amendments (which can later be removed) shows that discussion of change is not against the Constitution. You are trying to stop the process the Constitution allows, and that is where it is against the Constitution itself. It wants people to change things if the need comes, and not feel locked in. To say political speech is to be stopped if it goes against the current form of the Constitution is to go against that very Constitution which guarantees free political speech (and disagreement with the Constitution). You want to stop that. And that is where you fail to understand anything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


What need is there to change the Second Amendment? Do you believe that restricting or eliminating it all together will reduce violence? It is clear to me you have never served in a military unit, because you do not rush into the teeth of your enemy's defense, you find their gaps. Violent people will still find a way to kill, and destroying the Second Amendment simply makes it easier for them to do so - because they know law abiding citizens will follows the rules, while they clearly will not, as evidenced by their desire to murder.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Again, moron, you are going with "I agree with it, so don't change it and if you try to change it, I find you an enemy." The Constitution doesn't. That is where you fail you moron. Whether or not there is a "need" is not the question of the Constitution itself. Fucking moron, you fucking fail.
T-Cain
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01/19/2013 10:23 AM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Don't listen to what they're saying, because it's all lies. Look at what they are doing. They're turning real patriotic Americans into the enemy. Use the brain that God gave you. I'm not particularly a bible thumping believer, but it's going to be very interesting to see what the leader will be doing at the 6 month mark, which would leave him 3.5 years.....Will the AntiChrist be revealed?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32415920


yeah, military people are conditioned to unquestioningly accept orders, to be loyal killing machines, so when satan occupies the authority position, who's bidding are you doing and who is it you're killing?

I appreciate the OPs hopes and conscientousness, but you have to know what Henry Kissinger said about military men, they all think that about you. I don't. You need to be more sceptical.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32540270


My son just returned from Army, infantry boot camp. They took a good patriotic young man and turned him into a killer with superior tactical knowledge and gave him an implied license to kill.
I don't appreciate that his commander in chief is a userper, America-hating syndicate, Chicago-machine, crime boss worse than Al Capone.
If today the Boss were to order up all state National Guard and Regulars, he'd be enforcing unconstitutional confiscation laws against former law abiding citizens. That order is not long in coming.
Residing in my very house is my potential enemy and well-trained murderer.
There's not much greater insult than this present government turning our Sons and Daughters against their civilian families and neighbors by use of their armed force to dispossess us of our individual, potential armed defense.
What has become of my country when I can't trust family, government, law enforcement or my fellow citizens to not tread on my liberties or right to my own security and privacy of my person, family, possessions and papers?
 Quoting: T-Cain


That is a terrible thing to say about your own son. You act as though he were dead, or that he is not worth loving anymore. Why did your son join the Army? Moreover, if you are this angry and averse to the President, then why did you allow him to join? Did he do so against your will? You are driving a wedge between you and your son, and it was only because he wanted to make you proud of him.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Should he take up arms against you, the American people, to confiscate your arms, he will be "dead" to me. I will not consider him my son. He will not be welcome in my home again. I am a Vet. I swore to defend the constitution several times. My words are no different than our forefathers. It's high time you wrap your head around where you stand.
I had nothing to do with Sandy Hook or Aurora, etc. I am as appauled by the incident as any citizen, of course. My wife is a high school principal. I fear for her and her school's safety more than I do my own life. I want all violence to stop. I want more armed policemen in schools. I want less than lethal weapons accessible by teachers and administration. I want more physical security at schools like they have at courts now. That worked well.
I do not want confiscations except for felons and those on dangerous pharmaceuticals with statistically known side effects. This is what the narrative should be about. This is what would cause me to be supportive of meaningful measures to curb school violence. Simply emulate what courts and government entryways have done to address and reduce court violence over a decade ago. It has worked fairly well.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 26311503
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01/19/2013 10:26 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
When you become a christian you no longer are a part of any earthly kingdom . You are put into the kingdom of GOD that is to come on earth . You should no longer be worried about the constitution of the united states but what is expected of you as a citizen of the new jerusalem . Why be worried about an imperfect earthly system ? your new mandate is to spread the gospel. I am sure there are many true christians that would defend with the sword , but you will die by the sword if you do .
Start focusing on the heavenly things and forget about the earthy things that shouldnt matter anymore to you .
Rising Son (OP)
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

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01/19/2013 10:28 AM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
...


You regard Amendments in the wrong way. They are more like additions to the constitution than corrections. They should have been called addendums, not amendments. What part of the original constitution does the Second Amendment contradict?
 Quoting: Rising Son


No, moron. The thing is you are saying people can't go against the Constitution as it is today. But the fact that it ALLOWS change and allows amendments (which can later be removed) shows that discussion of change is not against the Constitution. You are trying to stop the process the Constitution allows, and that is where it is against the Constitution itself. It wants people to change things if the need comes, and not feel locked in. To say political speech is to be stopped if it goes against the current form of the Constitution is to go against that very Constitution which guarantees free political speech (and disagreement with the Constitution). You want to stop that. And that is where you fail to understand anything.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


What need is there to change the Second Amendment? Do you believe that restricting or eliminating it all together will reduce violence? It is clear to me you have never served in a military unit, because you do not rush into the teeth of your enemy's defense, you find their gaps. Violent people will still find a way to kill, and destroying the Second Amendment simply makes it easier for them to do so - because they know law abiding citizens will follows the rules, while they clearly will not, as evidenced by their desire to murder.
 Quoting: Rising Son


Again, moron, you are going with "I agree with it, so don't change it and if you try to change it, I find you an enemy." The Constitution doesn't. That is where you fail you moron. Whether or not there is a "need" is not the question of the Constitution itself. Fucking moron, you fucking fail.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


Your childish antics are comical at best. What you fail to realize is that America will only survive as long as there are those willing to defend it. If we lose the principles of liberty and freedom, then we have already lost our country, AND our constitution. Your intentions are becoming clearer by the moment...
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Zippy
User ID: 23977989
United States
01/19/2013 10:30 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

I understand your Problem. Pray for guidance. It should be a "no brainer" on not violating the oath to the constitution though. You swore the same oath that I and millions of others did. There are many of us who are willing to check you on it if you choose to violate it.
Might I suggest checking out Oathkeepers.org as a reminder?
I try to pray for guidance in the tough times that are surely before us. i will keep you in my prayers as well.

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