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Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 11:28 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Moronic thread. The Constitution allows people to "go against the Constitution." That's why amendments can be made and removed. To say one can't go against the Second Amendment and be pro-Constitution is the position which is against the Constitution and founding fathers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


This is the main line of thinking that is actively destroying our country, our republic but maybe more importantly the main course of human development since the enlightenment.

This idea of relativism, that our leaders are the wisest among us and that they have our best intentions at heart. They have the training and education to know what is best for us and if they decided to alter or change the principles upon which government is founded then it is the best for all of us.

I say the Declaration of Independence said it best,

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

This means there are principles to our form of government, they are unalienable, that means government cannot confer them or altar them in any way. As unpleasant as it may sound to statists, there are fundamental principles which cannot be changed or altered to suit the opinion of those in charge of defending those rights for the rest of us.

The collegiate universities that have taught this crap (constitutional relativism) for decades have done the greatest dis-service to this country.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


It's not relativism. The idea that humans a couple hundred years ago got things perfect goes against what THEY themselves said. Read Jefferson.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


Wrong, you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Natural rights are unalienable, they are absolute. You are a relativist. You want us to think that principles are not principles but suggestions to fit into the context of history.

Sorry, but unalienable means just that non transferable, or unalienable, absolute. Some people just can't handle the idea that some things are absolute.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


Natural rights are inalienable, however, the Constitution wasn't giving natural rights you fucking moron. It was giving positive rights.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 11:30 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Moronic thread. The Constitution allows people to "go against the Constitution." That's why amendments can be made and removed. To say one can't go against the Second Amendment and be pro-Constitution is the position which is against the Constitution and founding fathers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


This is the main line of thinking that is actively destroying our country, our republic but maybe more importantly the main course of human development since the enlightenment.

This idea of relativism, that our leaders are the wisest among us and that they have our best intentions at heart. They have the training and education to know what is best for us and if they decided to alter or change the principles upon which government is founded then it is the best for all of us.

I say the Declaration of Independence said it best,

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

This means there are principles to our form of government, they are unalienable, that means government cannot confer them or altar them in any way. As unpleasant as it may sound to statists, there are fundamental principles which cannot be changed or altered to suit the opinion of those in charge of defending those rights for the rest of us.

The collegiate universities that have taught this crap (constitutional relativism) for decades have done the greatest dis-service to this country.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


It's not relativism. The idea that humans a couple hundred years ago got things perfect goes against what THEY themselves said. Read Jefferson.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


Wrong, you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Natural rights are unalienable, they are absolute. You are a relativist. You want us to think that principles are not principles but suggestions to fit into the context of history.

Sorry, but unalienable means just that non transferable, or unalienable, absolute. Some people just can't handle the idea that some things are absolute.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


Here is where you confuse your understanding of natural rights to be what those rights are, btw. That is a part of the problem. You confuse "this is how things are" as with nature. Guns are not a part of nature (as can be seen with all the centuries without them). And other nations show this too -- it is therefore not a God-given right.. it is a state made right.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 11:30 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Moronic thread. The Constitution allows people to "go against the Constitution." That's why amendments can be made and removed. To say one can't go against the Second Amendment and be pro-Constitution is the position which is against the Constitution and founding fathers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


This is the main line of thinking that is actively destroying our country, our republic but maybe more importantly the main course of human development since the enlightenment.

This idea of relativism, that our leaders are the wisest among us and that they have our best intentions at heart. They have the training and education to know what is best for us and if they decided to alter or change the principles upon which government is founded then it is the best for all of us.

I say the Declaration of Independence said it best,

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

This means there are principles to our form of government, they are unalienable, that means government cannot confer them or altar them in any way. As unpleasant as it may sound to statists, there are fundamental principles which cannot be changed or altered to suit the opinion of those in charge of defending those rights for the rest of us.

The collegiate universities that have taught this crap (constitutional relativism) for decades have done the greatest dis-service to this country.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


It's not relativism. The idea that humans a couple hundred years ago got things perfect goes against what THEY themselves said. Read Jefferson.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


Wrong, you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Natural rights are unalienable, they are absolute. You are a relativist. You want us to think that principles are not principles but suggestions to fit into the context of history.

Sorry, but unalienable means just that non transferable, or unalienable, absolute. Some people just can't handle the idea that some things are absolute.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


Also, if you think that one man Jefferson embodied the principles of enlightenment then you are so skewed I probably shouldn't even be debating you. But since you remain ignorant I will make one more attempt.

Natural rights were a development of philosophical thought going all the way back to the magna carta and culminating in the late eighteenth century. I suggest you read some Locke, Bacon, or Rousseau. Also known as the Rationalists, these philosophers not only influenced our founding fathers they also brought us modern scientific thought and the rational method.

Please think before you post.

.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 11:34 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Natural rights are inalienable, however, the Constitution wasn't giving natural rights you fucking moron. It was giving positive rights.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697



Obviously ignorance is best revealed by people who resort to the use of profanity, as their lack of vocabulary dictates reliance upon the profane.

The constitution cannot ever "give" natural rights, it can only acknowledge them.

I'm done debating with profane, ignorant, most likely paid shills such as yourself. Go live in your ideal communism, which has been proven to be so successful in history.

.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 11:34 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
...


This is the main line of thinking that is actively destroying our country, our republic but maybe more importantly the main course of human development since the enlightenment.

This idea of relativism, that our leaders are the wisest among us and that they have our best intentions at heart. They have the training and education to know what is best for us and if they decided to alter or change the principles upon which government is founded then it is the best for all of us.

I say the Declaration of Independence said it best,

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

This means there are principles to our form of government, they are unalienable, that means government cannot confer them or altar them in any way. As unpleasant as it may sound to statists, there are fundamental principles which cannot be changed or altered to suit the opinion of those in charge of defending those rights for the rest of us.

The collegiate universities that have taught this crap (constitutional relativism) for decades have done the greatest dis-service to this country.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


It's not relativism. The idea that humans a couple hundred years ago got things perfect goes against what THEY themselves said. Read Jefferson.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697


Wrong, you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Natural rights are unalienable, they are absolute. You are a relativist. You want us to think that principles are not principles but suggestions to fit into the context of history.

Sorry, but unalienable means just that non transferable, or unalienable, absolute. Some people just can't handle the idea that some things are absolute.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


Also, if you think that one man Jefferson embodied the principles of enlightenment then you are so skewed I probably shouldn't even be debating you. But since you remain ignorant I will make one more attempt.

Natural rights were a development of philosophical thought going all the way back to the magna carta and culminating in the late eighteenth century. I suggest you read some Locke, Bacon, or Rousseau. Also known as the Rationalists, these philosophers not only influenced our founding fathers they also brought us modern scientific thought and the rational method.

Please think before you post.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


You continue to show yourself a dumbass. Magna Carta indeed. Do you fucking know what it said ? Not natural rights as you think. Talk about brainwashed - you think "these exist as stated rights, so they are natural." Nope. There are inalienable rights -- but those rights don't need a fucking Constitution. Gun rights are not one of those. Sorry, they are not. And it is not relativism to deny your claims of rights. It's objective.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 11:35 AM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Natural rights are inalienable, however, the Constitution wasn't giving natural rights you fucking moron. It was giving positive rights.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3050697



Obviously ignorance is best revealed by people who resort to the use of profanity, as their lack of vocabulary dictates reliance upon the profane.

The constitution cannot ever "give" natural rights, it can only acknowledge them.

I'm done debating with profane, ignorant, most likely paid shills such as yourself. Go live in your ideal communism, which has been proven to be so successful in history.

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432


Ad hom - "he used profanity therefore ignorant." The fucking moron is you. You confuse your propaganda with facts. The Constitution gives positive rights -- not just "recognizes rights." The whole point of the Bill of Rights was they were not "inalienable." Fucking moron.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 12:06 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
In reference to the soldier, what actually constituted an "enemy" as referred to generally in oaths of office "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic". The oath is left purposefully vague as to allow a reasonable person to make reasonable judgment about what constituted an "enemy" and what the phrase "support and defend" allowed for in the execution of that oath. I made the point that if domestic government were to attempt to disarm the citizenry, in direct violation of the 2nd Amendment, that there was little difference in the end result than if a foreign occupier was to do the same; the citizen would be left without the firearm either way. Of course, this is true not just with the 2nd Amendment but with any tenet of the Constitution as generally understood.

In that context, I think the ramifications of publicly identifying a "domestic enemy" and what recourse that term engenders with respect to one who has sworn that oath, bear further discussion. As noted above, what exactly is the threshold of "support and defend" to a reasonable person? Is that threshold rigid or movable with respect to circumstance?

This discussion is about the definition of an oath of office to a reasonable person and what remedies may be available to that person should they reach what they consider to be a reasonable conclusion that the tenets of the Constitution, as they understand them, are threatened. In short, what does the phrase "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" actually mean? Who makes the determination? Is one empowered to reach that conclusion themselves or is it implied that some entity higher up the chain is will let them know when such an act has occurred? What is the individual remedy? If enough citizens make such a determination, what is the collective remedy? What action, if any, would be considered "lawful" under such a circumstance?

The question at hand is for those members of society who have taken oaths of office, (politicians, police, fire, military, judges, etc.). The remedies available for violation of these oaths have been left purposefully vague to allow for reasonable interpretation by reasonable people. Assuming you fit this criterion, I'm asking:

- What does one need to do, in your opinion, to qualify as a "domestic enemy", if such a thing can even be defined.

- What reasonable measures constitute "support and defend" as they pertain to this perceived enemy?

- Who defines the enemy, the President, the elected class, the layman? Or, is it left for each individual to determine their own threshold?

- Are these oaths nothing more than meaningless pomp and circumstance that provide for no meaningful recourse? I don't believe that those that put them in place intended them to be empty vessels.

How does the oath of office of a policeman, sheriff, fireman, soldier or public servant factor into this if it is only for Congress to decide what constitutes "treason"? The oath doesn't mention "treason" specifically. It mentions 'domestic enemies". Would domestic enemies only be defined by Congress? That would render the oath relatively benign and indicate that the oath is sworn not to the Constitution itself but instead to other men.

What I'm getting at is that there is really no point to the oaths at all unless they empower the individual in some way, which I believe was the original intent as part of checks and balances.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 12:07 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.
 Quoting: Rising Son


You sound a bit naive, Stevens was a homosexual. The Obummer administration saw fit to make a homosexual an ambassador in a muslim country, as though it would not create any problems.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32540270


Wow, just wow. That's what you got out of his post? He's a bit naive because he doesn't understand that obviously Muslims will kill a gay man? Words fail.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 9119181


lol Were it not so dismal and hellish between the ears.
s. d. butler

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01/19/2013 12:52 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.
 Quoting: Rising Son


I believe I understand at least some of what you are going through. Maybe these articles will be of use.

[link to lewrockwell.com]


[link to lewrockwell.com]

And this article by Fred Reed. Hard for me to read but there is a great deal of truth.

[link to lewrockwell.com]

And finally

[link to www.amazon.com]

War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier [Paperback]
Smedley D. Butler (Author), Adam Parfrey (Introduct

Last Edited by s. d. butler on 01/19/2013 01:27 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I need to reply to this vital message so I will BUMP to see if it goes back to page one.bump
ClydeX

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01/19/2013 01:12 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Rising Son -

I fear your thread is headed down the path of most here - turning into an exercise of Internet Bravado, name calling and arguing for the sake of arguing.

To address your concerns; realize that there are many current teachings within Christianity that are not as Biblical as they are presented.

The Bible, specifically through the 10 Commandments, admonishes us that we "Shall not murder". Murder is the key here, though there has been great effort to substitute "killing" - which is false. Murder is the cold-hearted act of malice engaged and brought to fruition through prior planning. Killing, however, in defense of one's self, family, or others, is a very different act of protection from those who wish to do harm - likely possessing the aforementioned malice and prior-planned intent to murder you.

As God sent, watched over, and protected David while battling Goliath, or for Gideon to raise his army, it is often the responsibility of the God-fearing man to take upon his shoulders many daunting tasks.

For that matter; Joshua and Caleb could be considered the world's first Spec Ops guys as they were sent to gather the intel for the coming battle against the Canaanites.

No man truly wants to kill another - it's simply not a normal, healthy, or even rational point of view. Those that say they do - openly or in private - are liabilities, and will likely create more trouble throughout their days than they solve. That does not mean, however, that should one be placed in a position to make such decision in the defense of themselves, their family, or of others that they re wrong or condemned for it.

Anger and Malice are the keys here.

Now is the time, however, that we do need strong men on their knees before they're called to stand on the wall.

Godspeed to all here
Job 12:7) But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8) Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 01:14 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I think that whenever you mix politics with religion, you are treading in dangerous water. I personally never understood this 'Christian militarism'. It's a very perplexing mixture of idealism and personal obligation.
Sometimes we have to draw the line between what is perosnal belief, and what it means to be patriotic. It's a somewhat scary idea to me that anyone would take their own idea of what it means to be American, and just automatically conclude that this is a Christian nation.
What of the rest of the country that doesn't subscribe to your belief, are we somehow counterproductive? Does anyone who disagrees with how you think, automatically become "the enemy"?

For as much hate as I am going to get especially on this thread, this board.. I really don't feel the same way you do. Does that make me any less American? Not at all. If I'm not mistaken, this country was founded on the idea that religion was an entanglement that we sought to break free of when this nation was founded. You need not look any further than the constitution itself.

I may never understand what makes someone believe they are fighting a serious battle against anyone who doesn't think the same way they do. And I think it is pretty ignorant that anyone would imagine this country as in need of an army of Christians to speak for us. Perhaps you've lost touch with what the rest of the country believes. We may stand behind you, but you stand alone. I would really question what logic your standing for.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8793442


Perfect example of a 'Straw Man' post. Op never eluded to anything you just posted. You twisted his words just so you could use his Christianity against him and make it seem that he was putting others down.

You sure are way out in left field with this one. another do pokeye

tdown
Integrity101

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01/19/2013 01:32 PM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Rising Son -

I fear your thread is headed down the path of most here - turning into an exercise of Internet Bravado, name calling and arguing for the sake of arguing.

To address your concerns; realize that there are many current teachings within Christianity that are not as Biblical as they are presented.

The Bible, specifically through the 10 Commandments, admonishes us that we "Shall not murder". Murder is the key here, though there has been great effort to substitute "killing" - which is false. Murder is the cold-hearted act of malice engaged and brought to fruition through prior planning. Killing, however, in defense of one's self, family, or others, is a very different act of protection from those who wish to do harm - likely possessing the aforementioned malice and prior-planned intent to murder you.

As God sent, watched over, and protected David while battling Goliath, or for Gideon to raise his army, it is often the responsibility of the God-fearing man to take upon his shoulders many daunting tasks.

For that matter; Joshua and Caleb could be considered the world's first Spec Ops guys as they were sent to gather the intel for the coming battle against the Canaanites.

No man truly wants to kill another - it's simply not a normal, healthy, or even rational point of view. Those that say they do - openly or in private - are liabilities, and will likely create more trouble throughout their days than they solve. That does not mean, however, that should one be placed in a position to make such decision in the defense of themselves, their family, or of others that they re wrong or condemned for it.

Anger and Malice are the keys here.

Now is the time, however, that we do need strong men on their knees before they're called to stand on the wall.

Godspeed to all here
 Quoting: ClydeX


Well said.
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01/19/2013 02:00 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I just found your thread, thankfully once more!!!

Hi My Brother in Jesus Christ,

I have copied and pasted into my WORD document your excellent message. I am a 70 year old believer in Jesus who has SEEN this nation crumble before my eyes. I'm sick at heart and mind when I see we have maybe three years left before genuine before genuine persecution comes to God's people in this nation. I have written two books, one of which WARNED about this time.

God has given me prophecies regarding this time, and the time to come. In one of HIS MESSAGES, the Holy Spirit told me that in "2002, that the government of the United States was fomenting war." It was in 2003 our military attacked Iraq, and since then we have seen 7 nations in that area of the world fall to stronger Muslim control. God said concerning America . . ."the government to rotten TO THE CORE." He warned that we must stay close to Christ for the time would come when we'd be tested for our faith.

SOLIDERS OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST . . . this warning is for you. THEY, the EVIL ONES who wield the power are blood thirsty. THEY are coming for all of us who profess the cause of Christ. THEY wield more power than we'll ever see. The things they plan are done in secret, in the depths of wicked darkness. THEY are even now planning the great event in Washington D.C. when their leader is going to be sworn in again to rule your nation. Do not be fooled by this man, for his true intentions are very dark indeed. I send this warning through my servant who did not know she’d write such strong words this day.

Be alert my true children, be very alert, and do not believe what your news media tells you. Even that station called FOX is leaning toward deceit. Guard your hearts and minds, SEEK ME says the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. I say seek me with all of your heart.

As for you RIGHTS*** YOUR RIGHTS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DOWN THROUGH THE AGES. YOU HAVE YOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO PHYSICALLY DEFEND YOURSELVES AND YOUR LOVED ONES. THIS RIGHT IS GIVEN BY ME TO YOU AND YOUR GOVERNMNET CANNOT TAKE THAT RIGHT FROM YOU!

Be assured of this my children, in this coming battle, I will call many of my children home to me. Others I leave in this land until I, the Lord Jesus return. I will conquer all rebellion. All the evil Ones shall fall in great defeat before my holiness. Their day will come, and their evil rule shall end. Be encouraged my beloved children. I have spoken this day, be of good courage, be stalwart and very brave. I will honor you as you stand for MY TRUTH, MY WORD, and for the One True God and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thus says the Lord God this 19th day of January 2012
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 02:16 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I graduated high school almost two years ago.
Originally, I had every intent on joining the marine corps.
I still think about it some times. Even tonight at work there was something that caused it to cross my mind.
I think that there are ways that it could incredibly benefit me and my future family.
But then i think about what Christ said, and about what we are told to do in this brief life we have.
I heard the great commission tonight on the radio.
(local christian station i listen to)

Matthew 28:18-20 (esv)
And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obserbe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Originally i wanted to join the corps out of respect and honor for our nation, and an underlying sense of patriotism I have always had for this country.

Then I learned about what really happened on 9/11.
Then I read about northwoods.
Operation stellar wind.
Bengazi.
The floridation.
The experiments on the people in saint lewis.
The gulf of tonkin.
Cia Drug trafficing.
I actually read the patriot act and the ndaa and ndra.
I stumbled across the trespass act. (hr.347 i believe)
The blatant and clear censoring done by the media to fix the masses position, and when actual reporting is done, it is not reported. (look up amber lyon.)

On and on i stumbled through all of this. Everything that I had once thought or known to be true; everything that I had been told and lead to believe in high school: a complete sham.

Well... Nearly all of it.. I'm still pretty sure we won the revolutionary war... but the war of 1812 really did us in..
Thats another conversation though.

I have been thinking about this decision and what to do with my life for an incredible amount of time and I still wish to join the corps.

But for different reasons.

I feel that the marine corps needs Jesus Christ just as much as anyone else, if not more so. And I wish to be there to minister to fellow brothers. Especially in the times that lay ahead.

Although, I cannot come to a decision.

Christ told us that a man who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. (Matthew 26:52)

He also told us to turn the other cheek.

Everything that I have read and learned about the military industrial complex leads me to the conclussion that we (America) generate wars to create conflict and profit.

We take from the less fortunate and find a scapegoat.

Christ also told us that a house divided against itself, cannot, and will not stand. (Mark 3:25)

(serving Christ [the church] or serving the empire [enlisting])

Everything in my bones is telling me to pack up and leave for pendleton. But then I remember what Christ said. There is an internal battle going on and I just do not know sometimes. But then others days it seems crystal clear.

Then i look at the presidency, and coming end times prophecy. We are at the doorstep. Or so it seems at times.
But then again, we could be another hundred years off.
I have absoultely no idea. As men, we need to provide for our families, and in our current economy, the military is incredibly attractive.

But then I think about the commander in cheif, who is number one and ultimately decides our policy (ideally).
[barack "barry" obama; some say he is the anti christ; i really have no idea at this point]
I think about how he supports the muslim brotherhood (sending them f-15 fighter jets) ; How he sent the syrian rebels ammunition and arms to fight and cause harm and destrucion. How he is trying to take away the american peoples rights left and right. How he watched on a monitor as an american ambassador was murdered, and how he fired those who were willing to intervene. How he willingly supports the murder of innocent children thourgh aborition and how he is the only president in history to bow to a saudi (muslim) king, showing complete submission.

I think about these things every. single. day.

One of my best friends enlisted and wanted me to go with him. I almost did. But something kept me back. Something lingering in my mind. I still do not know what it was. But i feel we are in for something truly apocalytic.

These are my thoughts... I hope you can take something away from them.

In the meantime, I will be praying for you and our fellow service men.

I will see you in the kingdom of heaven brother.

May God's grace be poured out into your life, and may you walk and follow his statues and commandments that he may bless you.

I do not mean to trouble you with any of this, but they are serious issue that need to be thought about, mediatated on, and prayed about.

I pray you find resolution in this matter.
 Quoting: your brother in Christ 26665965


Wow. So much wisdom in one so young.

You have given me a small ray of hope for this country.

As for your dilemna: As a Christian putting yourself under the command of the current regime would be counter-intuitive if not flat out suicidal, imo. We need people like you here, not guarding opium fields in Afghanistan, but that is selfishness on my part I guess.

May God be with you in your decision, and thank you for posting.

We need people like you here, not guarding opium fields in Afghanistan, but that is selfishness on my part I guess.
Anonymous Coward
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Oops sorry for the sloppy cut and paste job.
Rising Son (OP)
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01/19/2013 02:33 PM

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Rising Son -

I fear your thread is headed down the path of most here - turning into an exercise of Internet Bravado, name calling and arguing for the sake of arguing.

To address your concerns; realize that there are many current teachings within Christianity that are not as Biblical as they are presented.

The Bible, specifically through the 10 Commandments, admonishes us that we "Shall not murder". Murder is the key here, though there has been great effort to substitute "killing" - which is false. Murder is the cold-hearted act of malice engaged and brought to fruition through prior planning. Killing, however, in defense of one's self, family, or others, is a very different act of protection from those who wish to do harm - likely possessing the aforementioned malice and prior-planned intent to murder you.

As God sent, watched over, and protected David while battling Goliath, or for Gideon to raise his army, it is often the responsibility of the God-fearing man to take upon his shoulders many daunting tasks.

For that matter; Joshua and Caleb could be considered the world's first Spec Ops guys as they were sent to gather the intel for the coming battle against the Canaanites.

No man truly wants to kill another - it's simply not a normal, healthy, or even rational point of view. Those that say they do - openly or in private - are liabilities, and will likely create more trouble throughout their days than they solve. That does not mean, however, that should one be placed in a position to make such decision in the defense of themselves, their family, or of others that they re wrong or condemned for it.

Anger and Malice are the keys here.

Now is the time, however, that we do need strong men on their knees before they're called to stand on the wall.

Godspeed to all here
 Quoting: ClydeX


Thank you so much for your response, I have never heard that standpoint before, and I feel much better having read it. What you are saying is that if you are involved in the unfortunate situation of ending another human's life, that your intentions and the circumstances surrounding that situation is what determines what side of God's Law you find yourself. I understand how slippery this slope is, and I will not ask anyone to further justify death in any way, but I believe you have helped me come to a point in my deliberation where I feel at peace with myself and the path that God has chosen for me. Thank you :-)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 02:33 PM
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The intent of your country was originally peace and freedom for all. You fought within yourselves to achieve this for all of your peoples who live under the sacred tenet of your truth – which is freedom, and liberty, justice, equality under God.

When you remove God, it is like denying the power that gives life to these tenets, and you become just as any other objective to those who seek dominion: to dominate you.

Your power comes from God. The birth of your consciousness, as a nation, was and is empowered by faith – by faith in God. Those who were (and are) the founders of that consciousness, who sought to demarcate this in a declaration, knew this, know it, saw it ... and see it, for it lives on.

We encourage you not to believe in the forces that seek to limit you; do not believe that yours is a nation on a path to death. Yours is a nation, symbolically and literally, expressing the struggle, the pains of growth.

Many things that are endearing to your intent, your ideal, are being challenged. Then rise up together and reclaim these. Give life to them. Your shelter is God. It is in all that your country stands for. It is that which others before you have stood and proclaimed: We are one nation, indivisible. We stand before you, who would seek to divide and conquer us, and whether we endure past this conflict or nay, we continue on eternally for what we believe and our ideal. And these are among the righteous who shall return with our Brother. This, we assure you, will come to pass!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32574731
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 02:35 PM
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I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.
 Quoting: Rising Son


excellent presentation.
millions of christians are struggling with the same issues.

please forgive my lousy writing skills.
i would like to try and sy a few things that are important and relevant to this problem we have here.

I have whiplashed myself all over the map with this and have decided to look at our situation and pick it apart in a cause and effect manner.

---

First.
we need a starting point.
it is Jesus Christ and the reason we were created.= to worship God.

----


when you study the bible , you see that every lesson, event, and the role of people is to bring people to God.

and it is no different then what is going on today and what our role is.

Notice the bible talks about turning the other cheek, love your enemies, etc
Jesus is teaching us how to relate to one another--how to foster an environment to promote love and forgiveness---attributes of God.

It is all over the place, for us to be peace makers.

-----

Christ also teaches that those that point children away from God might as well put a millstone around there neck and jump in the ocean,

---

Then we have a lot about conduct, speech, etc towards God?


---

what is Christ greatest law?--to love God with all your mind , heart and soul.
His next most important thing for us to do is to love your neighbour as yourself.

---

Now, the above is the basic tenents of Christs teaching.
We need to apply these things to current events, world views, and actions of those that control our lives .

Ask yourself can mankind fulfil its purpose---to love God with all its heart and mind--easier or harder with whatever issue you want to think of?

----

Abortion---is that leading people to worship God?--I don't think so

someone dissing you---turning the other cheek and forgiving--is that nurturing an environment for people to love God? --I think so

someone dissing Christ--- is that worshiping God?--no.
and more importantly, is an environment being developed by government that makes it easier or harder for people to worship Jesus Christ?

does a free people with the power ( 2nd ammendment ) to keep freedom, enable or retard the worship of God?
I think so,----look around the world.---

note:The canadian government walks all over christian's God given rights. In Canada a christian pastor was prosecuted and life ruined because he dared to write a letter to an editor of a newspaper about his thoughts on normalizing homosexuality in schools. alarmingly. a canadian official noted the hate speech in the bible. ---and its all fine with the Gov..--there is lots more on this blasphemic government and country --but you get my point--the government has nothing to fear from Canadians---we have free health care --don't ya know.

---
it is a very tricky world
remember the millstone and all the things we allow the gov, media, school system to do that lead children away from God,--- from the very reason Christ created us---to worship Him.
-pray
-and use decernemt.

in Christ.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 02:36 PM
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thats decernment
Rising Son (OP)
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

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01/19/2013 02:37 PM

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I just found your thread, thankfully once more!!!

Hi My Brother in Jesus Christ,

I have copied and pasted into my WORD document your excellent message. I am a 70 year old believer in Jesus who has SEEN this nation crumble before my eyes. I'm sick at heart and mind when I see we have maybe three years left before genuine before genuine persecution comes to God's people in this nation. I have written two books, one of which WARNED about this time.

God has given me prophecies regarding this time, and the time to come. In one of HIS MESSAGES, the Holy Spirit told me that in "2002, that the government of the United States was fomenting war." It was in 2003 our military attacked Iraq, and since then we have seen 7 nations in that area of the world fall to stronger Muslim control. God said concerning America . . ."the government to rotten TO THE CORE." He warned that we must stay close to Christ for the time would come when we'd be tested for our faith.

SOLIDERS OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST . . . this warning is for you. THEY, the EVIL ONES who wield the power are blood thirsty. THEY are coming for all of us who profess the cause of Christ. THEY wield more power than we'll ever see. The things they plan are done in secret, in the depths of wicked darkness. THEY are even now planning the great event in Washington D.C. when their leader is going to be sworn in again to rule your nation. Do not be fooled by this man, for his true intentions are very dark indeed. I send this warning through my servant who did not know she’d write such strong words this day.

Be alert my true children, be very alert, and do not believe what your news media tells you. Even that station called FOX is leaning toward deceit. Guard your hearts and minds, SEEK ME says the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. I say seek me with all of your heart.

As for you RIGHTS*** YOUR RIGHTS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DOWN THROUGH THE AGES. YOU HAVE YOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO PHYSICALLY DEFEND YOURSELVES AND YOUR LOVED ONES. THIS RIGHT IS GIVEN BY ME TO YOU AND YOUR GOVERNMNET CANNOT TAKE THAT RIGHT FROM YOU!

Be assured of this my children, in this coming battle, I will call many of my children home to me. Others I leave in this land until I, the Lord Jesus return. I will conquer all rebellion. All the evil Ones shall fall in great defeat before my holiness. Their day will come, and their evil rule shall end. Be encouraged my beloved children. I have spoken this day, be of good courage, be stalwart and very brave. I will honor you as you stand for MY TRUTH, MY WORD, and for the One True God and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thus says the Lord God this 19th day of January 2012
 Quoting: Messenger 28523802


Thank you for allowing God to work through you, and to utilize you. I can imagine that this was not an easy task for you, but I must say, your words are truly inspiring and helpful to me, and I am sure to others as well. I pray that our Heavenly Father speaks to all of us in these final days, and guides us to the safety of His flock through His most holy Shepherd, Jesus Christ :-)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 02:40 PM
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Were you afraid of George W Bush, when he was in office? Did you fear he was subtly ushering in tyranny?

 Quoting: CleverMoniker 19931300


Yes, you idiot. Yes.

And show me one thing the current administration has done to correct his offenses against our liberties.

Oh, that's right. You can't.
s. d. butler

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01/19/2013 02:47 PM
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Were you afraid of George W Bush, when he was in office? Did you fear he was subtly ushering in tyranny?

 Quoting: CleverMoniker 19931300


Yes, you idiot. Yes.

And show me one thing the current administration has done to correct his offenses against our liberties.

Oh, that's right. You can't.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32578461


The idiots always float that charge as if we didn't see how dangerous to liberty the little shrub was. Amusing really. But then I suppose they are too blinded by their ideology to understand that both of the parties are destroying America.
Anonymous Coward
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01/19/2013 02:50 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.
 Quoting: Rising Son


excellent presentation.
millions of christians are struggling with the same issues.

please forgive my lousy writing skills.
i would like to try and sy a few things that are important and relevant to this problem we have here.

I have whiplashed myself all over the map with this and have decided to look at our situation and pick it apart in a cause and effect manner.

---

First.
we need a starting point.
it is Jesus Christ and the reason we were created.= to worship God.

----


when you study the bible , you see that every lesson, event, and the role of people is to bring people to God.

and it is no different then what is going on today and what our role is.

Notice the bible talks about turning the other cheek, love your enemies, etc
Jesus is teaching us how to relate to one another--how to foster an environment to promote love and forgiveness---attributes of God.

It is all over the place, for us to be peace makers.

-----

Christ also teaches that those that point children away from God might as well put a millstone around there neck and jump in the ocean,

---

Then we have a lot about conduct, speech, etc towards God?


---

what is Christ greatest law?--to love God with all your mind , heart and soul.
His next most important thing for us to do is to love your neighbour as yourself.

---

Now, the above is the basic tenents of Christs teaching.
We need to apply these things to current events, world views, and actions of those that control our lives .

Ask yourself can mankind fulfil its purpose---to love God with all its heart and mind--easier or harder with whatever issue you want to think of?

----

Abortion---is that leading people to worship God?--I don't think so

someone dissing you---turning the other cheek and forgiving--is that nurturing an environment for people to love God? --I think so

someone dissing Christ--- is that worshiping God?--no.
and more importantly, is an environment being developed by government that makes it easier or harder for people to worship Jesus Christ?

does a free people with the power ( 2nd ammendment ) to keep freedom, enable or retard the worship of God?
I think so,----look around the world.---

note:The canadian government walks all over christian's God given rights. In Canada a christian pastor was prosecuted and life ruined because he dared to write a letter to an editor of a newspaper about his thoughts on normalizing homosexuality in schools. alarmingly. a canadian official noted the hate speech in the bible. ---and its all fine with the Gov..--there is lots more on this blasphemic government and country --but you get my point--the government has nothing to fear from Canadians---we have free health care --don't ya know.

---
it is a very tricky world
remember the millstone and all the things we allow the gov, media, school system to do that lead children away from God,--- from the very reason Christ created us---to worship Him.
-pray
-and use decernemt.

in Christ.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1139115


I think the US and its constitution does create an environment that enables people to come to God, and others to worship God.

those that defend the US constitution honour Christ's wishes.

==the big problem in the States is the utter disregard to the US constitution...

you need good men in the corp.
Rising Son (OP)
Clear Eyes, Full Hearts

User ID: 32269124
United States
01/19/2013 02:57 PM

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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.
 Quoting: Rising Son


I believe I understand at least some of what you are going through. Maybe these articles will be of use.

[link to lewrockwell.com]


[link to lewrockwell.com]

And this article by Fred Reed. Hard for me to read but there is a great deal of truth.

[link to lewrockwell.com]

And finally

[link to www.amazon.com]

War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier [Paperback]
Smedley D. Butler (Author), Adam Parfrey (Introduct
 Quoting: s. d. butler


Thank you for the references, I have them marked for later reading when I have some more time. That last one I have heard of before, it was recommended by a good friend of mine in describing the corruption between the military, the government, and corporate America in Smedley Butler's time while in the Corps. Thanks again for pointing these out to me :-)
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

Truth needs no validation because it is self-evident and undeniable. Therefore, anything that requires validation to be realized or justified as truth must contain at least some degree of falsehood.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
ClydeX

User ID: 11310285
United States
01/19/2013 03:03 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Rising Son -

I fear your thread is headed down the path of most here - turning into an exercise of Internet Bravado, name calling and arguing for the sake of arguing.

To address your concerns; realize that there are many current teachings within Christianity that are not as Biblical as they are presented.

The Bible, specifically through the 10 Commandments, admonishes us that we "Shall not murder". Murder is the key here, though there has been great effort to substitute "killing" - which is false. Murder is the cold-hearted act of malice engaged and brought to fruition through prior planning. Killing, however, in defense of one's self, family, or others, is a very different act of protection from those who wish to do harm - likely possessing the aforementioned malice and prior-planned intent to murder you.

As God sent, watched over, and protected David while battling Goliath, or for Gideon to raise his army, it is often the responsibility of the God-fearing man to take upon his shoulders many daunting tasks.

For that matter; Joshua and Caleb could be considered the world's first Spec Ops guys as they were sent to gather the intel for the coming battle against the Canaanites.

No man truly wants to kill another - it's simply not a normal, healthy, or even rational point of view. Those that say they do - openly or in private - are liabilities, and will likely create more trouble throughout their days than they solve. That does not mean, however, that should one be placed in a position to make such decision in the defense of themselves, their family, or of others that they re wrong or condemned for it.

Anger and Malice are the keys here.

Now is the time, however, that we do need strong men on their knees before they're called to stand on the wall.

Godspeed to all here
 Quoting: ClydeX


Thank you so much for your response, I have never heard that standpoint before, and I feel much better having read it. What you are saying is that if you are involved in the unfortunate situation of ending another human's life, that your intentions and the circumstances surrounding that situation is what determines what side of God's Law you find yourself. I understand how slippery this slope is, and I will not ask anyone to further justify death in any way, but I believe you have helped me come to a point in my deliberation where I feel at peace with myself and the path that God has chosen for me. Thank you :-)
 Quoting: Rising Son


You are most welcome my brother.

When Christ speaks to us of "turning the other cheek", this is often taken out of context (actually one of the most misused quotes of the Bible) and turned, essentially, into the thought that Christians are to be doormats - this is an absurd dilution of the truth.

Christ is speaking of temperance and patience - attributes associated with maturity (both physically as well as spiritually), and are obtained only through time and exposure. He is expressing that we are to evaluate, but not hesitate in the differing situations in which we may find ourselves, and that any response, if such is warranted, be suitable to the offense.

Always remember (though this has lost it's place in today's society); Christ was not slouch. Not only did He present Himself as a man, he grew up in the house of a carpenter - He was no soft-handed, dodgy guy that most want to equate with Christianity in general, or Christian men in specific.

Even as the Anglos and the Saxons were converting from their pagan religions, the Saxons in particular decided to follow Christ as they viewed Him as the greatest warrior ever - He had defeated even death.

We have a risen Savior - be steadfast in that belief, but remember as well that He has defeated the grave, and He has passed that same gift to us. Everything on this earth is temporary, so if we keep our eyes on what best pleases God as His servant, while also furthers the mission of Christ in spreading the news of salvation, these other things become just bumps in the road.
Job 12:7) But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8) Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
The_Mhael

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01/19/2013 05:54 PM
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Re: Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior
Thank you for sharing your thoughts Op.
I am glad and reassured that there are those like yourself in our armed forces who question these things. There is indeed a battle coming. A line in the sand is going to be drawn. Families pitted against each other. Brothers against brothers. Sons against fathers. Mothers against daughters. There will be an unbelievable amount of conflict and confusion. So many do not wish to see the facts for what they are. But reality is this:

We are no longer a christian nation.
We no longer have the blessing of the Most High.
Our people openly spite God and abuse his name.
There is little to no repentance in the streets and homes today.
Family values are nearly eroded.
Somehow everyone is right, even when they have completely contradictory views.
Children grow up with two fathers or two mothers or no one at all.
We are lost. We are broken. The people are angry, isolated, and alone.
The masses are brainwashed and readily accept mtv and whatever the media projects out to them. Critical thinking is not completely gone, but it sure feels like it sometimes...
People just do not want to take the time to research and do what needs to be done. Something is just wrong...

But you give me hope Op.
There are those out there, like yourself, like myself and others.
We see this. We need to do something about it.
There has been so much talk about action.
So much talk and contemplation on solutions and possible scenarios that might fix our current state.
I feel there has been enough talk. We need to do something. We need to bring the truth to others.

The Gospel is the single greatest and most important gift ever given to mankind. We truly have no excuse for not sharing it with others.

We are limited by social norms and what others might think of us.
We are afraid. I know I am.
But we need not be.

Jesus Christ calls us to spread the Good News regardless of time, place, people, or events. If we know, if we are saved, if we truly believe that Jesus Christ is who he claims to be, that he conquered death and defeated sin, we have no excuse not to shout it to the world. But we do not.

Not as we should at least.

Persecution, challenges, and difficulty are coming. And believers will be targeted more than ever. This is going to happen folks. Regardless of whether we want it to or not.

The Thousand Years

20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.


I Look at the world and the way things are, and just cannot help but feel sadness at times.. But then i remember the words of Isaiah (58:8):

Then shall your light break forth like the dawn,
and your healing shall spring up speedily;
your righteousness shall go before you;
the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.

We have the glory of the Lord Almighty at our backs.
I have no need for an ar-15.
Let them take me.

Clothe yourself in prayer and the spiritual armor of God. The last days may yet be before us. Prepare yourselves.

All honor and glory to the Lord Jesus Christ.
servant of christ

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