Moral Authority And The Dilemma Of The Christian American Warrior

Wrong, you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Natural rights are unalienable, they are absolute. You are a relativist. You want us to think that principles are not principles but suggestions to fit into the context of history.

Sorry, but unalienable means just that non transferable, or unalienable, absolute. Some people just can't handle the idea that some things are absolute.

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Wrong, you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Natural rights are unalienable, they are absolute. You are a relativist. You want us to think that principles are not principles but suggestions to fit into the context of history.

Sorry, but unalienable means just that non transferable, or unalienable, absolute. Some people just can't handle the idea that some things are absolute.

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Wrong, you didn't even bother to read what I wrote. Natural rights are unalienable, they are absolute. You are a relativist. You want us to think that principles are not principles but suggestions to fit into the context of history.

Sorry, but unalienable means just that non transferable, or unalienable, absolute. Some people just can't handle the idea that some things are absolute.

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Natural rights are inalienable, however, the Constitution wasn't giving natural rights you fucking moron. It was giving positive rights.

Also, if you think that one man Jefferson embodied the principles of enlightenment then you are so skewed I probably shouldn't even be debating you. But since you remain ignorant I will make one more attempt.

Natural rights were a development of philosophical thought going all the way back to the magna carta and culminating in the late eighteenth century. I suggest you read some Locke, Bacon, or Rousseau. Also known as the Rationalists, these philosophers not only influenced our founding fathers they also brought us modern scientific thought and the rational method.

Please think before you post.

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Obviously ignorance is best revealed by people who resort to the use of profanity, as their lack of vocabulary dictates reliance upon the profane.

The constitution cannot ever "give" natural rights, it can only acknowledge them.

I'm done debating with profane, ignorant, most likely paid shills such as yourself. Go live in your ideal communism, which has been proven to be so successful in history.

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Wow, just wow. That's what you got out of his post? He's a bit naive because he doesn't understand that obviously Muslims will kill a gay man? Words fail.

I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.

I think that whenever you mix politics with religion, you are treading in dangerous water. I personally never understood this 'Christian militarism'. It's a very perplexing mixture of idealism and personal obligation.
Sometimes we have to draw the line between what is perosnal belief, and what it means to be patriotic. It's a somewhat scary idea to me that anyone would take their own idea of what it means to be American, and just automatically conclude that this is a Christian nation.
What of the rest of the country that doesn't subscribe to your belief, are we somehow counterproductive? Does anyone who disagrees with how you think, automatically become "the enemy"?

For as much hate as I am going to get especially on this thread, this board.. I really don't feel the same way you do. Does that make me any less American? Not at all. If I'm not mistaken, this country was founded on the idea that religion was an entanglement that we sought to break free of when this nation was founded. You need not look any further than the constitution itself.

I may never understand what makes someone believe they are fighting a serious battle against anyone who doesn't think the same way they do. And I think it is pretty ignorant that anyone would imagine this country as in need of an army of Christians to speak for us. Perhaps you've lost touch with what the rest of the country believes. We may stand behind you, but you stand alone. I would really question what logic your standing for.

Rising Son -

I fear your thread is headed down the path of most here - turning into an exercise of Internet Bravado, name calling and arguing for the sake of arguing.

To address your concerns; realize that there are many current teachings within Christianity that are not as Biblical as they are presented.

The Bible, specifically through the 10 Commandments, admonishes us that we "Shall not murder". Murder is the key here, though there has been great effort to substitute "killing" - which is false. Murder is the cold-hearted act of malice engaged and brought to fruition through prior planning. Killing, however, in defense of one's self, family, or others, is a very different act of protection from those who wish to do harm - likely possessing the aforementioned malice and prior-planned intent to murder you.

As God sent, watched over, and protected David while battling Goliath, or for Gideon to raise his army, it is often the responsibility of the God-fearing man to take upon his shoulders many daunting tasks.

For that matter; Joshua and Caleb could be considered the world's first Spec Ops guys as they were sent to gather the intel for the coming battle against the Canaanites.

No man truly wants to kill another - it's simply not a normal, healthy, or even rational point of view. Those that say they do - openly or in private - are liabilities, and will likely create more trouble throughout their days than they solve. That does not mean, however, that should one be placed in a position to make such decision in the defense of themselves, their family, or of others that they re wrong or condemned for it.

Anger and Malice are the keys here.

Now is the time, however, that we do need strong men on their knees before they're called to stand on the wall.

Godspeed to all here

I graduated high school almost two years ago.
Originally, I had every intent on joining the marine corps.
I still think about it some times. Even tonight at work there was something that caused it to cross my mind.
I think that there are ways that it could incredibly benefit me and my future family.
But then i think about what Christ said, and about what we are told to do in this brief life we have.
I heard the great commission tonight on the radio.
(local christian station i listen to)

Matthew 28:18-20 (esv)
And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obserbe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Originally i wanted to join the corps out of respect and honor for our nation, and an underlying sense of patriotism I have always had for this country.

Then I learned about what really happened on 9/11.
Then I read about northwoods.
Operation stellar wind.
Bengazi.
The floridation.
The experiments on the people in saint lewis.
The gulf of tonkin.
Cia Drug trafficing.
I actually read the patriot act and the ndaa and ndra.
I stumbled across the trespass act. (hr.347 i believe)
The blatant and clear censoring done by the media to fix the masses position, and when actual reporting is done, it is not reported. (look up amber lyon.)

On and on i stumbled through all of this. Everything that I had once thought or known to be true; everything that I had been told and lead to believe in high school: a complete sham.

Well... Nearly all of it.. I'm still pretty sure we won the revolutionary war... but the war of 1812 really did us in..
Thats another conversation though.

I have been thinking about this decision and what to do with my life for an incredible amount of time and I still wish to join the corps.

But for different reasons.

I feel that the marine corps needs Jesus Christ just as much as anyone else, if not more so. And I wish to be there to minister to fellow brothers. Especially in the times that lay ahead.

Although, I cannot come to a decision.

Christ told us that a man who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. (Matthew 26:52)

He also told us to turn the other cheek.

Everything that I have read and learned about the military industrial complex leads me to the conclussion that we (America) generate wars to create conflict and profit.

We take from the less fortunate and find a scapegoat.

Christ also told us that a house divided against itself, cannot, and will not stand. (Mark 3:25)

(serving Christ [the church] or serving the empire [enlisting])

Everything in my bones is telling me to pack up and leave for pendleton. But then I remember what Christ said. There is an internal battle going on and I just do not know sometimes. But then others days it seems crystal clear.

Then i look at the presidency, and coming end times prophecy. We are at the doorstep. Or so it seems at times.
But then again, we could be another hundred years off.
I have absoultely no idea. As men, we need to provide for our families, and in our current economy, the military is incredibly attractive.

But then I think about the commander in cheif, who is number one and ultimately decides our policy (ideally).
[barack "barry" obama; some say he is the anti christ; i really have no idea at this point]
I think about how he supports the muslim brotherhood (sending them f-15 fighter jets) ; How he sent the syrian rebels ammunition and arms to fight and cause harm and destrucion. How he is trying to take away the american peoples rights left and right. How he watched on a monitor as an american ambassador was murdered, and how he fired those who were willing to intervene. How he willingly supports the murder of innocent children thourgh aborition and how he is the only president in history to bow to a saudi (muslim) king, showing complete submission.

I think about these things every. single. day.

One of my best friends enlisted and wanted me to go with him. I almost did. But something kept me back. Something lingering in my mind. I still do not know what it was. But i feel we are in for something truly apocalytic.

These are my thoughts... I hope you can take something away from them.

In the meantime, I will be praying for you and our fellow service men.

I will see you in the kingdom of heaven brother.

May God's grace be poured out into your life, and may you walk and follow his statues and commandments that he may bless you.

I do not mean to trouble you with any of this, but they are serious issue that need to be thought about, mediatated on, and prayed about.

I pray you find resolution in this matter.

Rising Son -

I fear your thread is headed down the path of most here - turning into an exercise of Internet Bravado, name calling and arguing for the sake of arguing.

To address your concerns; realize that there are many current teachings within Christianity that are not as Biblical as they are presented.

The Bible, specifically through the 10 Commandments, admonishes us that we "Shall not murder". Murder is the key here, though there has been great effort to substitute "killing" - which is false. Murder is the cold-hearted act of malice engaged and brought to fruition through prior planning. Killing, however, in defense of one's self, family, or others, is a very different act of protection from those who wish to do harm - likely possessing the aforementioned malice and prior-planned intent to murder you.

As God sent, watched over, and protected David while battling Goliath, or for Gideon to raise his army, it is often the responsibility of the God-fearing man to take upon his shoulders many daunting tasks.

For that matter; Joshua and Caleb could be considered the world's first Spec Ops guys as they were sent to gather the intel for the coming battle against the Canaanites.

No man truly wants to kill another - it's simply not a normal, healthy, or even rational point of view. Those that say they do - openly or in private - are liabilities, and will likely create more trouble throughout their days than they solve. That does not mean, however, that should one be placed in a position to make such decision in the defense of themselves, their family, or of others that they re wrong or condemned for it.

Anger and Malice are the keys here.

Now is the time, however, that we do need strong men on their knees before they're called to stand on the wall.

Godspeed to all here

The intent of your country was originally peace and freedom for all. You fought within yourselves to achieve this for all of your peoples who live under the sacred tenet of your truth – which is freedom, and liberty, justice, equality under God.

When you remove God, it is like denying the power that gives life to these tenets, and you become just as any other objective to those who seek dominion: to dominate you.

Your power comes from God. The birth of your consciousness, as a nation, was and is empowered by faith – by faith in God. Those who were (and are) the founders of that consciousness, who sought to demarcate this in a declaration, knew this, know it, saw it ... and see it, for it lives on.

We encourage you not to believe in the forces that seek to limit you; do not believe that yours is a nation on a path to death. Yours is a nation, symbolically and literally, expressing the struggle, the pains of growth.

Many things that are endearing to your intent, your ideal, are being challenged. Then rise up together and reclaim these. Give life to them. Your shelter is God. It is in all that your country stands for. It is that which others before you have stood and proclaimed: We are one nation, indivisible. We stand before you, who would seek to divide and conquer us, and whether we endure past this conflict or nay, we continue on eternally for what we believe and our ideal. And these are among the righteous who shall return with our Brother. This, we assure you, will come to pass!

I am a United States Marine, and as such, I swore before God to defend the constitution of my founding fathers against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. However, I am also a Christian, bound to the commandments of my Father in Heaven, of which, I am not allowed to kill, and encouraged by Jesus Christ to turn the other cheek when struck. I put myself in this predicament by joining the US military, and I have to admit, I never thought I would reach this point of contention.

What I see today is an all-out assault on that very constitution that I swore to defend, and a concentrated effort to dismantle the Second Amendment through a series of seemingly benign measures at "curbing gun violence". On the surface, I feel that given my Christian background, I should join this effort, since the advertised goal of this endeavor is to save lives. Hence, I am brought into the horns of a dilemma once again, and I am torn between the obligation to defend the constitution, and my Christian obligation to protect human life.

However, I believe there is a darker and more sinister motive at work here, and it is not advertised nor easily identifiable. I am taught in the military to thoroughly study my enemy, to learn their ways and their tendencies, and to anticipate their actions. I know the enemy is taught to do the same, and to attack the gaps in my defenses, the weakest points in my lines. I believe that this administration is doing just that against the constitution and the American people, and is doing so under the ruse of genuine concern for American lives and the "unquestionable" mandate of the protection of our children.

Remember, this is the same administration that left Christopher Stevens and his defenders to fend for themselves, and to die at the hands of America's enemies because an altercation in Benghazi would have been detrimental to the success of their presidential campaign. Also remember that this administration cares very little for the lives of the unborn children in their support of abortion, and sees nothing wrong with the destruction of the most vulnerable members and citizens of this American nation.

So, I am left to decide what path I am to follow, and I know that I am not the only one who is confused with these choices. I swore my oath before God, and did so asking God's help to act as the moral authority in the validity of my oath ("So help me, God.") My fellow Americans, and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, what would you have me do? I need your help and guidance, as do my fellow brothers and sisters in arms - please help us understand where our moral authority is, and what is the right thing to do.

I just found your thread, thankfully once more!!!

Hi My Brother in Jesus Christ,

I have copied and pasted into my WORD document your excellent message. I am a 70 year old believer in Jesus who has SEEN this nation crumble before my eyes. I'm sick at heart and mind when I see we have maybe three years left before genuine before genuine persecution comes to God's people in this nation. I have written two books, one of which WARNED about this time.

God has given me prophecies regarding this time, and the time to come. In one of HIS MESSAGES, the Holy Spirit told me that in "2002, that the government of the United States was fomenting war." It was in 2003 our military attacked Iraq, and since then we have seen 7 nations in that area of the world fall to stronger Muslim control. God said concerning America . . ."the government to rotten TO THE CORE." He warned that we must stay close to Christ for the time would come when we'd be tested for our faith.

SOLIDERS OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST . . . this warning is for you. THEY, the EVIL ONES who wield the power are blood thirsty. THEY are coming for all of us who profess the cause of Christ. THEY wield more power than we'll ever see. The things they plan are done in secret, in the depths of wicked darkness. THEY are even now planning the great event in Washington D.C. when their leader is going to be sworn in again to rule your nation. Do not be fooled by this man, for his true intentions are very dark indeed. I send this warning through my servant who did not know she’d write such strong words this day.

Be alert my true children, be very alert, and do not believe what your news media tells you. Even that station called FOX is leaning toward deceit. Guard your hearts and minds, SEEK ME says the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. I say seek me with all of your heart.

As for you RIGHTS*** YOUR RIGHTS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DOWN THROUGH THE AGES. YOU HAVE YOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO PHYSICALLY DEFEND YOURSELVES AND YOUR LOVED ONES. THIS RIGHT IS GIVEN BY ME TO YOU AND YOUR GOVERNMNET CANNOT TAKE THAT RIGHT FROM YOU!

Be assured of this my children, in this coming battle, I will call many of my children home to me. Others I leave in this land until I, the Lord Jesus return. I will conquer all rebellion. All the evil Ones shall fall in great defeat before my holiness. Their day will come, and their evil rule shall end. Be encouraged my beloved children. I have spoken this day, be of good courage, be stalwart and very brave. I will honor you as you stand for MY TRUTH, MY WORD, and for the One True God and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thus says the Lord God this 19th day of January 2012

Were you afraid of George W Bush, when he was in office? Did you fear he was subtly ushering in tyranny?

Yes, you idiot. Yes.

And show me one thing the current administration has done to correct his offenses against our liberties.

Oh, that's right. You can't.

excellent presentation.
millions of christians are struggling with the same issues.

please forgive my lousy writing skills.
i would like to try and sy a few things that are important and relevant to this problem we have here.

I have whiplashed myself all over the map with this and have decided to look at our situation and pick it apart in a cause and effect manner.

---

First.
we need a starting point.
it is Jesus Christ and the reason we were created.= to worship God.

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when you study the bible , you see that every lesson, event, and the role of people is to bring people to God.

and it is no different then what is going on today and what our role is.

Notice the bible talks about turning the other cheek, love your enemies, etc
Jesus is teaching us how to relate to one another--how to foster an environment to promote love and forgiveness---attributes of God.

It is all over the place, for us to be peace makers.

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Christ also teaches that those that point children away from God might as well put a millstone around there neck and jump in the ocean,

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Then we have a lot about conduct, speech, etc towards God?


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what is Christ greatest law?--to love God with all your mind , heart and soul.
His next most important thing for us to do is to love your neighbour as yourself.

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Now, the above is the basic tenents of Christs teaching.
We need to apply these things to current events, world views, and actions of those that control our lives .

Ask yourself can mankind fulfil its purpose---to love God with all its heart and mind--easier or harder with whatever issue you want to think of?

----

Abortion---is that leading people to worship God?--I don't think so

someone dissing you---turning the other cheek and forgiving--is that nurturing an environment for people to love God? --I think so

someone dissing Christ--- is that worshiping God?--no.
and more importantly, is an environment being developed by government that makes it easier or harder for people to worship Jesus Christ?

does a free people with the power ( 2nd ammendment ) to keep freedom, enable or retard the worship of God?
I think so,----look around the world.---

note:The canadian government walks all over christian's God given rights. In Canada a christian pastor was prosecuted and life ruined because he dared to write a letter to an editor of a newspaper about his thoughts on normalizing homosexuality in schools. alarmingly. a canadian official noted the hate speech in the bible. ---and its all fine with the Gov..--there is lots more on this blasphemic government and country --but you get my point--the government has nothing to fear from Canadians---we have free health care --don't ya know.

---
it is a very tricky world
remember the millstone and all the things we allow the gov, media, school system to do that lead children away from God,--- from the very reason Christ created us---to worship Him.
-pray
-and use decernemt.

in Christ.

I believe I understand at least some of what you are going through. Maybe these articles will be of use.

[link to lewrockwell.com]


[link to lewrockwell.com]

And this article by Fred Reed. Hard for me to read but there is a great deal of truth.

[link to lewrockwell.com]

And finally

[link to www.amazon.com]

War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier [Paperback]
Smedley D. Butler (Author), Adam Parfrey (Introduct

Thank you so much for your response, I have never heard that standpoint before, and I feel much better having read it. What you are saying is that if you are involved in the unfortunate situation of ending another human's life, that your intentions and the circumstances surrounding that situation is what determines what side of God's Law you find yourself. I understand how slippery this slope is, and I will not ask anyone to further justify death in any way, but I believe you have helped me come to a point in my deliberation where I feel at peace with myself and the path that God has chosen for me. Thank you :-)

I have 6 combat Tours, If you truly are a Marine...which I highlly doubt, You are a Disgrace to that Uniform and No way in Hell are you allowed in my Fox Hole.

You would most assuredly receive friendly fire.

You can not be counted on in a Fire Fight!


I've had several Marines as augmentee's to my Patrols, they never ever sounded like you. You are a Total Disgrace to the Marine Corp.!

1 star and unpin this thread, I am outta here!