I'm Pro Second Amendment, However I Can't Ignore the Numbers | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32731918 United States 01/21/2013 12:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Still no one has answered my questions. Why would it be good to have more guns a neighborhood like the one I described? Quoting: Grimsun I'll answer your question. "Good" is not arrived at by eliminating individual freedoms via governmental force. In fact "evil" is attained by mandating, legislating or restricting individual freedoms. . But you are still free to buy a gun are you not? I'm only simply saying I am fine with a few extra hoops if it will deter a crackhead from purchasing a gun at Walmart with cash and then committing a crime. The best deterant is capitol punishment for capitol crimes. You will not deter ANYONE with a law. You only deter by punishment and taking the repeats out of the equasion. |
Grimsun (OP) User ID: 26508846 United States 01/21/2013 12:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you subtract the gun-related crimes committed by inner city negroes, then the gun-related crime rate of the US is the same as that of Belgium. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32284139 I think it has to do with inner city poverty, not race. So tired of hearing how everybody is responsible for the way the blacks behave. Fuck off, OP. Hey bud, we have poor white people around here and guess what.. They commit just as many crimes as any other race on the fringes of society, addicted to substances. Grimsun |
****SUPERFLY**** User ID: 19055858 United States 01/21/2013 12:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 961432 United States 01/21/2013 12:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432 I'll answer your question. "Good" is not arrived at by eliminating individual freedoms via governmental force. In fact "evil" is attained by mandating, legislating or restricting individual freedoms. . But you are still free to buy a gun are you not? I'm only simply saying I am fine with a few extra hoops if it will deter a crackhead from purchasing a gun at Walmart with cash and then committing a crime. Crackheads can get guns through other channels they will just buy them from other criminals. In fact, the profits then go to support more criminal activities/wealth. It also means they need to perform more crime to gain the additional money necessary for the cost discrepancy. Are you proposing to give criminal cartels government subsidies via legislation? . Hah, that made me chuckle. Look, we all know they can acquire it other ways but it's more difficult. Most of these crackheads aren't connected in some underground organized crime network either. I mean you're not advocating we start selling 6 shots in the quickie mart are you? What do you mean they aren't connected? They buy crack, that is illegal right? Then they buy crack from criminals. Black markets are loose connections, but the money is funneled up to the cartel. Nowadays that is most likely banks, but that is another topic. I'm not advocating anything from governmental force/coercion as you are. I am simply stating that our constitution means rights applied to ALL PEOPLE of the United States. Limiting freedoms to individuals in the USA is tyrannical, fascist and as all command and control systems are fallacies, they end in disaster. Liberty means everyone not just some who are socially or economically "better" than others. . |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32731918 United States 01/21/2013 12:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Still no one has answered my questions. Why would it be good to have more guns a neighborhood like the one I described? Quoting: Grimsun I'll answer your question. "Good" is not arrived at by eliminating individual freedoms via governmental force. In fact "evil" is attained by mandating, legislating or restricting individual freedoms. . But you are still free to buy a gun are you not? I'm only simply saying I am fine with a few extra hoops if it will deter a crackhead from purchasing a gun at Walmart with cash and then committing a crime. The best deterant is capitol punishment for capitol crimes. You will not deter ANYONE with a law. You only deter by punishment and taking the repeats out of the equasion. And the suicide pills bigpharma and their lacky dog shit docs push. Saw today more murders by medicated zombies. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32725783 United States 01/21/2013 12:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you subtract the gun-related crimes committed by inner city negroes, then the gun-related crime rate of the US is the same as that of Belgium. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32284139 I think it has to do with inner city poverty, not race. So tired of hearing how everybody is responsible for the way the blacks behave. Fuck off, OP. Hey bud, we have poor white people around here and guess what.. They commit just as many crimes as any other race on the fringes of society, addicted to substances. You are full of fail today. |
Grimsun (OP) User ID: 26508846 United States 01/21/2013 12:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Grimsun But you are still free to buy a gun are you not? I'm only simply saying I am fine with a few extra hoops if it will deter a crackhead from purchasing a gun at Walmart with cash and then committing a crime. Crackheads can get guns through other channels they will just buy them from other criminals. In fact, the profits then go to support more criminal activities/wealth. It also means they need to perform more crime to gain the additional money necessary for the cost discrepancy. Are you proposing to give criminal cartels government subsidies via legislation? . Hah, that made me chuckle. Look, we all know they can acquire it other ways but it's more difficult. Most of these crackheads aren't connected in some underground organized crime network either. I mean you're not advocating we start selling 6 shots in the quickie mart are you? What do you mean they aren't connected? They buy crack, that is illegal right? Then they buy crack from criminals. Black markets are loose connections, but the money is funneled up to the cartel. Nowadays that is most likely banks, but that is another topic. I'm not advocating anything from governmental force/coercion as you are. I am simply stating that our constitution means rights applied to ALL PEOPLE of the United States. Limiting freedoms to individuals in the USA is tyrannical, fascist and as all command and control systems are fallacies, they end in disaster. Liberty means everyone not just some who are socially or economically "better" than others. . So what you're saying is, your against any or all restrictions? Why not let 12 year olds and multiple DUI convicts drive then? We can't restrict their individual freedoms right? In fact why bother having a driver's license at all? Some restrictions are good. Like No glass bottles at concerts for example or no driving drunk. See, no one's saying you cant have a drink at a concert or that you can't drive your car. It's called ground rules. Grimsun |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32725783 United States 01/21/2013 12:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432 Crackheads can get guns through other channels they will just buy them from other criminals. In fact, the profits then go to support more criminal activities/wealth. It also means they need to perform more crime to gain the additional money necessary for the cost discrepancy. Are you proposing to give criminal cartels government subsidies via legislation? . Hah, that made me chuckle. Look, we all know they can acquire it other ways but it's more difficult. Most of these crackheads aren't connected in some underground organized crime network either. I mean you're not advocating we start selling 6 shots in the quickie mart are you? What do you mean they aren't connected? They buy crack, that is illegal right? Then they buy crack from criminals. Black markets are loose connections, but the money is funneled up to the cartel. Nowadays that is most likely banks, but that is another topic. I'm not advocating anything from governmental force/coercion as you are. I am simply stating that our constitution means rights applied to ALL PEOPLE of the United States. Limiting freedoms to individuals in the USA is tyrannical, fascist and as all command and control systems are fallacies, they end in disaster. Liberty means everyone not just some who are socially or economically "better" than others. . So what you're saying is, your against any or all restrictions? Why not let 12 year olds and multiple DUI convicts drive then? We can't restrict their individual freedoms right? In fact why bother having a driver's license at all? Some restrictions are good. Like No glass bottles at concerts for example or no driving drunk. See, no one's saying you cant have a drink at a concert or that you can't drive your car. It's called ground rules. |
Grimsun (OP) User ID: 26508846 United States 01/21/2013 12:45 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | So tired of hearing how everybody is responsible for the way the blacks behave. Fuck off, OP. Hey bud, we have poor white people around here and guess what.. They commit just as many crimes as any other race on the fringes of society, addicted to substances. You are full of fail today. Not sure where you live but Good Ol' boys around here range from law abiding to criminal. Rural, white meth heads will break into your house, steal your shit, drive off in your car and bash your brains in with a hammer they stole too. Grimsun |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 31855582 United States 01/21/2013 12:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Grimsun (OP) User ID: 26508846 United States 01/21/2013 12:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Grimsun Hah, that made me chuckle. Look, we all know they can acquire it other ways but it's more difficult. Most of these crackheads aren't connected in some underground organized crime network either. I mean you're not advocating we start selling 6 shots in the quickie mart are you? What do you mean they aren't connected? They buy crack, that is illegal right? Then they buy crack from criminals. Black markets are loose connections, but the money is funneled up to the cartel. Nowadays that is most likely banks, but that is another topic. I'm not advocating anything from governmental force/coercion as you are. I am simply stating that our constitution means rights applied to ALL PEOPLE of the United States. Limiting freedoms to individuals in the USA is tyrannical, fascist and as all command and control systems are fallacies, they end in disaster. Liberty means everyone not just some who are socially or economically "better" than others. . So what you're saying is, your against any or all restrictions? Why not let 12 year olds and multiple DUI convicts drive then? We can't restrict their individual freedoms right? In fact why bother having a driver's license at all? Some restrictions are good. Like No glass bottles at concerts for example or no driving drunk. See, no one's saying you cant have a drink at a concert or that you can't drive your car. It's called ground rules. Wow 3 alerts?! With that kind of alarm you'd think it would go off a little sooner. I made my OP like an hour ago, but nice try. Grimsun |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 23761243 United States 01/21/2013 12:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32593508 United States 01/21/2013 12:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 961432 United States 01/21/2013 12:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432 Crackheads can get guns through other channels they will just buy them from other criminals. In fact, the profits then go to support more criminal activities/wealth. It also means they need to perform more crime to gain the additional money necessary for the cost discrepancy. Are you proposing to give criminal cartels government subsidies via legislation? . Hah, that made me chuckle. Look, we all know they can acquire it other ways but it's more difficult. Most of these crackheads aren't connected in some underground organized crime network either. I mean you're not advocating we start selling 6 shots in the quickie mart are you? What do you mean they aren't connected? They buy crack, that is illegal right? Then they buy crack from criminals. Black markets are loose connections, but the money is funneled up to the cartel. Nowadays that is most likely banks, but that is another topic. I'm not advocating anything from governmental force/coercion as you are. I am simply stating that our constitution means rights applied to ALL PEOPLE of the United States. Limiting freedoms to individuals in the USA is tyrannical, fascist and as all command and control systems are fallacies, they end in disaster. Liberty means everyone not just some who are socially or economically "better" than others. . So what you're saying is, your against any or all restrictions? Why not let 12 year olds and multiple DUI convicts drive then? We can't restrict their individual freedoms right? In fact why bother having a driver's license at all? Some restrictions are good. Like No glass bottles at concerts for example or no driving drunk. See, no one's saying you cant have a drink at a concert or that you can't drive your car. It's called ground rules. Let's see no glass bottles at concerts. Someone owns that concert venue, it is their property, so they are justified in making limitations on what can or cannot be done on their property. I have no problem with that. If you don't like the restriction then don't go to the concert. Letting 12 year olds drive cars. I don't think that when automobiles were invented there were age restrictions on driving vehicles. In fact, there were no required "driver's license". In fact I would say that is a direct limitation on liberty as outlined by the constitution, limiting people's mobility is a transgression of our constitution. However, it may be debatable at what age a person "becomes" a person of the United States. I personally would say that if a person can vote at 18, then they are also a "person of the United States". If someone is driving drunk and causes harm to another person or their property in an accident, then they should have to pay reparations to the party or individuals offended/violated. As it is now our legal code provides no such compensation. In fact, it is more like another tax where the violator either pays fines to the state or they are imprisoned placing the cost/burden of their incarceration on the taxpayers through the prison system. So, then the individual(s) must pay for another persons indiscretion. Basically all this legal code enacted to circumnavigate individual freedom places further burdens on society or individuals. It does this through the guise of "protecting us from harm" but when harm is done there is no individual protection only cost to the individual firstly through the damage to person or property and secondly through punishment of the violator which cost is shifted again to the individual or tax payer and enriches individuals in the legal system. The lie is that we can eliminate risk or harm by reducing individual freedom. When I think risk constrains or reigns in the potential for harm as then the violator must actually be held to account/payment for their damages caused to other individuals. . |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32593508 United States 01/21/2013 12:59 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Now with that said, I have an open mind and I'm also a numbers guy. I've been doing my own research and have come to some conclusions.." Numbers just don't matter with the 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment is so easy to understand that you need help to misunderstand it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 31557420 United States 01/21/2013 01:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | If you subtract the gun-related crimes committed by inner city negroes, then the gun-related crime rate of the US is the same as that of Belgium. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32284139 No, it's WAY lower in Belgium. We don't have a gun tradition. No, just a molesting little kids tradition. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 31855582 United States 01/21/2013 01:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | "Now with that said, I have an open mind and I'm also a numbers guy. I've been doing my own research and have come to some conclusions.." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32593508 Numbers just don't matter with the 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment is so easy to understand that you need help to misunderstand it. Don't bother to feed this troll. He is working from a script. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20086645 United States 01/21/2013 01:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32735277 United States 01/21/2013 01:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 961432 What do you mean they aren't connected? They buy crack, that is illegal right? Then they buy crack from criminals. Black markets are loose connections, but the money is funneled up to the cartel. Nowadays that is most likely banks, but that is another topic. I'm not advocating anything from governmental force/coercion as you are. I am simply stating that our constitution means rights applied to ALL PEOPLE of the United States. Limiting freedoms to individuals in the USA is tyrannical, fascist and as all command and control systems are fallacies, they end in disaster. Liberty means everyone not just some who are socially or economically "better" than others. . So what you're saying is, your against any or all restrictions? Why not let 12 year olds and multiple DUI convicts drive then? We can't restrict their individual freedoms right? In fact why bother having a driver's license at all? Some restrictions are good. Like No glass bottles at concerts for example or no driving drunk. See, no one's saying you cant have a drink at a concert or that you can't drive your car. It's called ground rules. Wow 3 alerts?! With that kind of alarm you'd think it would go off a little sooner. I made my OP like an hour ago, but nice try. Looks like I'm not the only one who noticed. Thread fail. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32735277 United States 01/21/2013 01:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32735277 United States 01/21/2013 01:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Grimsun (OP) User ID: 26508846 United States 01/21/2013 01:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Really, you think so? Well I will say this. I'm against any kind of restrictions on clip size or ammo restrictions. I think that's a non-issue. I don't believe in gun free zones, that's just a soft target for criminals. I do agree with the NRA that a good guy with a gun is about the only thing that would have prevented the tragedy that started this debate. So do I still fit in your box? Grimsun |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 31855582 United States 01/21/2013 01:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5643861 Canada 01/21/2013 01:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 961432 United States 01/21/2013 01:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32735277 United States 01/21/2013 01:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Really, you think so? Well I will say this. I'm against any kind of restrictions on clip size or ammo restrictions. I think that's a non-issue. I don't believe in gun free zones, that's just a soft target for criminals. I do agree with the NRA that a good guy with a gun is about the only thing that would have prevented the tragedy that started this debate. So do I still fit in your box? But but...he's one of us. lol Shills and disinfo agents are soooo obvious. Your second grade tactics won't work at this site, asshole. Beat it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 32735277 United States 01/21/2013 01:14 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 31855582 United States 01/21/2013 01:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Really, you think so? Well I will say this. I'm against any kind of restrictions on clip size or ammo restrictions. I think that's a non-issue. I don't believe in gun free zones, that's just a soft target for criminals. I do agree with the NRA that a good guy with a gun is about the only thing that would have prevented the tragedy that started this debate. So do I still fit in your box? Yes you do. Your mission is get consensus on banning / confiscating 'assult weapons'. It is still an infringment on the 2nd Amendment and the Rights of The People. Regardless of the consensus building and agreeing with a few of the tennents of pro 2nd advocates, you are still working to take away American's Constutional Rights. As I said before, Obvious Tactic is Obvious. |
Grimsun (OP) User ID: 26508846 United States 01/21/2013 01:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | WalMart does not sell handguns. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23761243 How many crackheads are shooting each other with the scoped bolt action hunting rifles that WalMart does sell? OP doesn't appreciate you bringing critical thinking into his thread. Ahh yes critical thinking.. Is blindly adhering to your own ideology with disregard for new information or information that contradicts your presuppositions considered thinking? That's just the example I choose to use not so much because of the store but the neighborhood it's associated with, and yes crimes are committed with shotguns, and pawn shops are a plenty in neighborhoods such as these. Grimsun |
Grimsun (OP) User ID: 26508846 United States 01/21/2013 01:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Really, you think so? Well I will say this. I'm against any kind of restrictions on clip size or ammo restrictions. I think that's a non-issue. I don't believe in gun free zones, that's just a soft target for criminals. I do agree with the NRA that a good guy with a gun is about the only thing that would have prevented the tragedy that started this debate. So do I still fit in your box? Yes you do. Your mission is get consensus on banning / confiscating 'assult weapons'. It is still an infringment on the 2nd Amendment and the Rights of The People. Regardless of the consensus building and agreeing with a few of the tennents of pro 2nd advocates, you are still working to take away American's Constutional Rights. As I said before, Obvious Tactic is Obvious. Negative sir. If anyone is redirecting consensus it would be you. Trying to discredit, or say I stand for something I never said. You are the only one who said anything about "assault weapons". Wish I could afford one, but my wife would eat me alive. The one I want is $1100. Grimsun |