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BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!

 
glauco

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02/01/2013 08:27 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Astro, is incredible the number of turns you do around a problem.

I will state what I believe is going, then you do the same:
1-) McCanney stated that he is analyzing some data that suggests C/2012 S1 have companions. He said he is analyzing, is being cautious about it, and later will confirm if is true. No problem on that, he is an independent scientist, if he were hired by NASA, probably the NASA's voicer would do the same. After scientst, McCanney is radialist and have his own audience;

2-) You affirm that McCanney took his data from the same source as SpaceWeather.com, and now he is lying about the mistake he did, confounding hot pixels and asteroids with companions. Also, he states that this is a conspiration against him;

3-) I said he could had made a mistake about this data, but you cannot prove that he get his data from Spaceweather.com. You know, sometimes various observatories releases same date at the same time, this depends on viewing conditions and other factors. As scientist and radialist, he don't have to release sources nor data until it is confirmed. NASA never release data neither to scientists.

4-) Alright, is good you will take a good professional measurement about Mars and its orbit. But don't forget about the electric discharges we will see naked eye from Earth between the comet and the planet. This counts as strange phenomena that proves McCanney's works.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
glauco

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02/01/2013 08:37 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
C/2012 S1 (ISON) The official name of comet ISON.

Now Glauco, what are the official names of the alleged companion objects?

If they are really there, what are they officially named?



With out any credible agency labeling these objects, it is foolish to push a topic so far with out a shred of tangible evidence.

Modern I-Net tabloid sites don't count as evidence, fyi.



Now if you are serious about your claims, step up and prove it or shut up and admit you are wrong....or avoid this and quietly prove my point either way.

.....and don't be offended, ignorance is what it is. The lack of logic is what you need to work on.
 Quoting: --Voltaic--


I never said that objects orbits the comet nor McCanney did, he said *IS TOO EARLY TO CONFIRM* *INITIAL DATA SUGGESTS* *HAS TO BE VERY CAUTIOUS* *IT **APPEARS** TO BE REAL*. He is a radialist and scientist, he have the right to not release his sources nor data until the *SUGGESTION* is confirmed. That's the way science and jornalism always worked.

Also I'm trying to deal a bet with Doc Duck Dog, but he avoids talking straight.

jmccsci.com
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
--Voltaic--
Prussian Royalty

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02/01/2013 08:42 AM

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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
This Dr. Astro fuck sounds a lot like someone who works for nasa...all science, no theory.

your science is stagnant...time to look outside the box, or you will continue to think in a straight line...sounds quite boring actually.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 15257059


How can you have stagnant science? Yet another illogical statement made since you have no real argument.

I'm not a scientist.
Don't want to be.

But, let me take this opportunity to say.

Dr. Astro.
You are a stinky arrogant pile of shit.!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 37525


Arrogant (adj): Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities.


His skills, knowledge is not exaggerated. Unlike the crazy claims made by others in this thread.


Glauco, ISON is a comet, nothing more. Read up on historical accounts of how comets behave, appear, etc. Not one instance will you find a satellite orbiting a comet.

Last Edited by --Voltaic-- on 02/01/2013 08:47 AM
Prince Wilhelm Schmieder the 1st. Proud descendant of Anastasia Romanov...yes, she survived!

Do your absolute best and the rest is fate.
Dr. AstroModerator
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
He said he is analyzing, is being cautious about it,
 Quoting: glauco

He is not being cautious, he's fear mongering and spewing bullshit which is precisely why this thread and others just like it exist.
No problem on that,
 Quoting: glauco

Yes problem on that. He already stated what he thinks it is and he has given no data at all to back up those statements. That is not how a real scientist operates. NASA or not.
2-) You affirm that McCanney took his data from the same source as SpaceWeather.com, and now he is lying about the mistake he did, confounding hot pixels and asteroids with companions.
 Quoting: glauco

This all started with Pete's images, and the first ones to claim that they showed "companions" were not even him, they were posters on other conspiracy forums. He simply latched onto the claim days later.
Also, he states that this is a conspiration against him;
 Quoting: glauco

That is the lie, I never said he lied about his mistake, I said he lied about NASA altering Pete's images to remove the hot pixels, oh sorry, "companions." WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!
4-) Alright, is good you will take a good professional measurement about Mars and its orbit. But don't forget about the electric discharges we will see naked eye from Earth between the comet and the planet. This counts as strange phenomena that proves McCanney's works.
 Quoting: glauco

Again, I do not agree to your conditions, I'm not falling for your horse shit. WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!

Last Edited by Dr. Astro on 02/01/2013 08:48 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Also I'm trying to deal a bet with Doc Duck Dog, but he avoids talking straight.
 Quoting: glauco


I do not agree to your "bet" for the reasons I already explained. I will not change my mind. Go away.
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02/01/2013 08:51 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
bsflagbanana2
glauco

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02/01/2013 10:13 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Glauco, ISON is a comet, nothing more. Read up on historical accounts of how comets behave, appear, etc. Not one instance will you find a satellite orbiting a comet.
 Quoting: --Voltaic--


For sure man, here is the official finding from NASA of an object orbiting Hale Bopp:

Detection of a Satellite Orbiting the Nucleus of Comet Hale-Bopp (C/1995 O1), by Z. Sekanina (Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, Calif., USA) at the First International Conference on Comet Hale-Bopp
Puerto de la Cruz, Tenerife, Spain February 2-5, 1998. You can find it at [link to www.eso.org]

It is official information from NASA. Enough? I can suggest Immanuel Velikovsky also.

5a

Last Edited by glauco on 02/01/2013 10:19 AM
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
glauco

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02/01/2013 10:18 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
4-) Alright, is good you will take a good professional measurement about Mars and its orbit. But don't forget about the electric discharges we will see naked eye from Earth between the comet and the planet. This counts as strange phenomena that proves McCanney's works.
 Quoting: glauco

Again, I do not agree to your conditions, I'm not falling for your horse shit. WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Man, I said that if the people from Earth, all of them, does not see electrical discharges, naked eye, between the comet and the planet, you will win the bet. Electric Discharges in outspace have to be impossible, right?

Also, take a look at my post above, I found out NASA stating that they already found satelites orbiting comets.

Hihihihihi.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
It is official information from NASA. Enough?
 Quoting: glauco

If correct, it is in direct contradiction to McCanney. The proposed satellite you linked to (your link was broken by the way, here's a fixed version: [link to tmgnow.com] ) was separated by no more than .1 arcseconds from the primary nucleus, which would have been impossible for any amateur observer to detect and is in direct contradiction to the claimed "companions" McCanney said it had. McCanney claimed Hale-Bopp had a planet-sized nucleus that started out with the mass of the moon and magically gained mass up to the mass of Mercury. With an orbital distance of about 180km and an orbital period of 2~3 days, the comet would necessarily have about 0.000001 times the moon's mass. So good job, you just debunked McCanney.

Sekanina's proposed detection of a satellite nucleus closely orbiting the primary nucleus was extremely marginal, even with such powerful telescopes. It was so marginal that it's not clear that such a satellite even existed, it was disputed by other scientists including Hal Weaver, a principal investigator on a number of NASA missions including the first observation of a comet by Hubble as well as Hubble's observations of Hale-Bopp. Hal states in this paper (Estimating the Size of Hale-Bopp's Nucleus. H. A. Weaver, P. L. Lamy in Earth, Moon, and Planets (1997)):

"Sekanina finds that the effective radius of
the nucleus is 35 km (with values ranging between 30 km and 40 km depending
on the image), in excellent agreement with the results from Lamy et al. (2000).
...
As discussed above, comparing the observations to models containing only a
single point source sometimes leaves residuals that are significantly larger than
the counting-statistics noise level. Sekanina (1997–1999b) has interpreted some
of these excess residuals as being due to additional point sources, i.e., companion
fragments to Hale–Bopp’s primary nucleus. He has gone even further to suggest
that the brightest of the companions may be on stable orbits around the primary.
During the Hale–Bopp conference, a presentation was made suggesting that a fragment
was present in images taken in November 1997 and January 1998 using the
ADONIS adaptive optics system at the 3.6m telescope of the European Southern
Observatory in La Silla (Boehnhardt et al., personal communication), and this
result intensified the debate as to whether Hale–Bopp had companion nuclei.
There is no doubt that Sekanina decreases the magnitude of the residuals (datamodel)
by adding extra point sources to his model. However, this is to expected
simply as a consequence of adding more free parameters to the model and does
not necessarily have any physical significance. Based on careful examination of
data like those presented in Figure 4, we prefer to explain the excess residuals
as being due to inadequate modeling of the complex coma morphology and/or
temporal variability rather than invoking the presence of extra fragments. We note
that Sekanina’s largest companions are generally located within the strongest coma
jets, which are the most likely places for the models to fail. We also point out
that the HST CCDs are imperfect detectors whose noise does not always obey
the laws of counting statistics and that models of the PSF can be significantly
different from the actual PSFs (Krist and Hook, 1997). While Sekanina has been
very careful in attempting to account for all known deficiencies in the CCDs and
PSF modeling, perhaps he is being too optimistic in his assessment of these effects."

So not only does Sekanina's results directly contradict and disprove McCanney's claims about Hale-Bopp, but his proposed detection of a binary nucleus is not without problems and may not be accurate.

Last Edited by Dr. Astro on 02/01/2013 11:49 AM
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glauco

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02/01/2013 12:07 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
It is official information from NASA. Enough?
 Quoting: glauco

If correct, it is in direct contradiction to McCanney. The proposed satellite you linked to (your link was broken by the way, here's a fixed version: [link to tmgnow.com] ) was separated by no more than .1 arcseconds from the primary nucleus, which would have been impossible for any amateur observer to detect and is in direct contradiction to the claimed "companions" McCanney said it had. McCanney claimed Hale-Bopp had a planet-sized nucleus that started out with the mass of the moon and magically gained mass up to the mass of Mercury. With an orbital distance of about 180km and an orbital period of 2~3 days, the comet would necessarily have about 0.000001 times the moon's mass. So good job, you just debunked McCanney.

Sekanina's proposed detection of a satellite nucleus closely orbiting the primary nucleus was extremely marginal, even with such powerful telescopes. It was so marginal that it's not clear that such a satellite even existed, it was disputed by other scientists including Hal Weaver, a principal investigator on a number of NASA missions including the first observation of a comet by Hubble as well as Hubble's observations of Hale-Bopp. Hal states in this paper (Estimating the Size of Hale-Bopp's Nucleus. H. A. Weaver, P. L. Lamy in Earth, Moon, and Planets (1997)):

"Sekanina finds that the effective radius of
the nucleus is 35 km (with values ranging between 30 km and 40 km depending
on the image), in excellent agreement with the results from Lamy et al. (2000).
...
As discussed above, comparing the observations to models containing only a
single point source sometimes leaves residuals that are significantly larger than
the counting-statistics noise level. Sekanina (1997–1999b) has interpreted some
of these excess residuals as being due to additional point sources, i.e., companion
fragments to Hale–Bopp’s primary nucleus. He has gone even further to suggest
that the brightest of the companions may be on stable orbits around the primary.
During the Hale–Bopp conference, a presentation was made suggesting that a fragment
was present in images taken in November 1997 and January 1998 using the
ADONIS adaptive optics system at the 3.6m telescope of the European Southern
Observatory in La Silla (Boehnhardt et al., personal communication), and this
result intensified the debate as to whether Hale–Bopp had companion nuclei.
There is no doubt that Sekanina decreases the magnitude of the residuals (datamodel)
by adding extra point sources to his model. However, this is to expected
simply as a consequence of adding more free parameters to the model and does
not necessarily have any physical significance. Based on careful examination of
data like those presented in Figure 4, we prefer to explain the excess residuals
as being due to inadequate modeling of the complex coma morphology and/or
temporal variability rather than invoking the presence of extra fragments. We note
that Sekanina’s largest companions are generally located within the strongest coma
jets, which are the most likely places for the models to fail. We also point out
that the HST CCDs are imperfect detectors whose noise does not always obey
the laws of counting statistics and that models of the PSF can be significantly
different from the actual PSFs (Krist and Hook, 1997). While Sekanina has been
very careful in attempting to account for all known deficiencies in the CCDs and
PSF modeling, perhaps he is being too optimistic in his assessment of these effects."

So not only does Sekanina's results directly contradict and disprove McCanney's claims about Hale-Bopp, but his proposed detection of a binary nucleus is not without problems and may not be accurate.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Man, the cowboy asked for a proof of satellites orbiting comets. There it is, it is possible. My opinion, however, is that these numbers are underestimated.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
Dr. AstroModerator
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
It is official information from NASA. Enough?
 Quoting: glauco

If correct, it is in direct contradiction to McCanney. The proposed satellite you linked to (your link was broken by the way, here's a fixed version: [link to tmgnow.com] ) was separated by no more than .1 arcseconds from the primary nucleus, which would have been impossible for any amateur observer to detect and is in direct contradiction to the claimed "companions" McCanney said it had. McCanney claimed Hale-Bopp had a planet-sized nucleus that started out with the mass of the moon and magically gained mass up to the mass of Mercury. With an orbital distance of about 180km and an orbital period of 2~3 days, the comet would necessarily have about 0.000001 times the moon's mass. So good job, you just debunked McCanney.

Sekanina's proposed detection of a satellite nucleus closely orbiting the primary nucleus was extremely marginal, even with such powerful telescopes. It was so marginal that it's not clear that such a satellite even existed, it was disputed by other scientists including Hal Weaver, a principal investigator on a number of NASA missions including the first observation of a comet by Hubble as well as Hubble's observations of Hale-Bopp. Hal states in this paper (Estimating the Size of Hale-Bopp's Nucleus. H. A. Weaver, P. L. Lamy in Earth, Moon, and Planets (1997)):

"Sekanina finds that the effective radius of
the nucleus is 35 km (with values ranging between 30 km and 40 km depending
on the image), in excellent agreement with the results from Lamy et al. (2000).
...
As discussed above, comparing the observations to models containing only a
single point source sometimes leaves residuals that are significantly larger than
the counting-statistics noise level. Sekanina (1997–1999b) has interpreted some
of these excess residuals as being due to additional point sources, i.e., companion
fragments to Hale–Bopp’s primary nucleus. He has gone even further to suggest
that the brightest of the companions may be on stable orbits around the primary.
During the Hale–Bopp conference, a presentation was made suggesting that a fragment
was present in images taken in November 1997 and January 1998 using the
ADONIS adaptive optics system at the 3.6m telescope of the European Southern
Observatory in La Silla (Boehnhardt et al., personal communication), and this
result intensified the debate as to whether Hale–Bopp had companion nuclei.
There is no doubt that Sekanina decreases the magnitude of the residuals (datamodel)
by adding extra point sources to his model. However, this is to expected
simply as a consequence of adding more free parameters to the model and does
not necessarily have any physical significance. Based on careful examination of
data like those presented in Figure 4, we prefer to explain the excess residuals
as being due to inadequate modeling of the complex coma morphology and/or
temporal variability rather than invoking the presence of extra fragments. We note
that Sekanina’s largest companions are generally located within the strongest coma
jets, which are the most likely places for the models to fail. We also point out
that the HST CCDs are imperfect detectors whose noise does not always obey
the laws of counting statistics and that models of the PSF can be significantly
different from the actual PSFs (Krist and Hook, 1997). While Sekanina has been
very careful in attempting to account for all known deficiencies in the CCDs and
PSF modeling, perhaps he is being too optimistic in his assessment of these effects."

So not only does Sekanina's results directly contradict and disprove McCanney's claims about Hale-Bopp, but his proposed detection of a binary nucleus is not without problems and may not be accurate.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Man, the cowboy asked for a proof of satellites orbiting comets. There it is, it is possible. My opinion, however, is that these numbers are underestimated.
 Quoting: glauco


Your opinion is worth what, exactly? That is to say, what do you have to back that opinion up with? Good job genius, you debunked your own dear leader, McCanney.
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glauco

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02/01/2013 12:37 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Your opinion is worth what, exactly? That is to say, what do you have to back that opinion up with? Good job genius, you debunked your own dear leader, McCanney.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Take care, I guess this content is protected.

With my opinion and more 5 dollars you win a beer in any bar. As well as yours.

I'm observing McCanney doing predictions of bad weather sometimes 10 months in advance for the past 10 years. He did it last October. He hits day, time, intensity, location, and type of event to expect. And he just calculates the electrical connections between the planets, our moon, the Sun and some comets if any present. His opinion have value. So, if he said Hale-Bopp or ISON is big, so it is.

I brought the proof that comets can have companions. Little dirty snow balls would never have enough gravitational force to do that.

http:\\jmccsci.com
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Your opinion is worth what, exactly? That is to say, what do you have to back that opinion up with? Good job genius, you debunked your own dear leader, McCanney.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Take care, I guess this content is protected.

With my opinion and more 5 dollars you win a beer in any bar. As well as yours.
 Quoting: glauco

I backed up my opinion with all kinds of sources and information. Your own information debunked McCanney's claims. You thought you could get away with confirmation bias by only paying attention to the part you liked while ignoring the rest which debunked McCanney's notions of Hale-Bopp's size and the distance of its "companions." It doesn't work like that, you dismantled your own claim without even realizing it. I'd say I handed your ass to you, but in truth you hoisted yourself with your own petard.
So, if he said Hale-Bopp or ISON is big, so it is.
 Quoting: glauco

LMFAO! Nice logical fallacy, you're making a false appeal to authority. Blatantly. You just showed that McCanney is wrong without even realizing it. Good job.
Little dirty snow balls would never have enough gravitational force to do that.
 Quoting: Glauco

Nope, doesn't work like that. As I previously showed, they don't have enough gravity to hold a companion at 1 LD or greater, but they certainly can at 180 km or so. That is a very close orbit, and even then at 2~3 days long it indicates that the comet's mass is only about 0.000001 times the moon's mass. So good job dumbass, you disproved your own claim.
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Astro was long ago proven to be just a NASA shill.

Why no Moon Rovers astro? We know to much about the Moon? Our nearest next available resource. Been sending them to Mars......why not the Moon?

I think 40 years is enough time to lie......try the truth for a change.
glauco

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02/01/2013 01:09 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Voltaic:
Glauco, ISON is a comet, nothing more. Read up on historical accounts of how comets behave, appear, etc. Not one instance will you find a satellite orbiting a comet.
 Quoting: --Voltaic--


Me:
Detection of a Satellite Orbiting the Nucleus of Comet Hale-Bopp (C/1995 O1), by Z. Sekanina (Jet Propulsion Laboratory, California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, Calif., USA) at the First International Conference on Comet Hale-Bopp
Puerto de la Cruz, Tenerife, Spain February 2-5, 1998. You can find it at [link to www.eso.org]
 Quoting: glauco


*I did what he asked for*

You:
You thought you could get away with confirmation bias by only paying attention to the part you liked while ignoring the rest which debunked McCanney's notions of Hale-Bopp's size and the distance of its "companions."
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


McCanney estimated the size of Hale-Bopp by the electric reactions through the Solar System, which he predicted. He don't have professional equipment to do such kinds of observations like you would do with a professional radio telescope. He knew about the Hale-Bopp companion but *never* gave estimatives about it. And we was talking about C/2012 S1 (ISON), not Hale-Bopp. If Hale-Bopp can have companions, why not C/2012 S1(ISON)?

Nope, doesn't work like that. As I previously showed, they don't have enough gravity to hold a companion at 1 LD or greater, but they certainly can at 180 km or so. That is a very close orbit, and even then at 2~3 days long it indicates that the comet's mass is only about 0.000001 times the moon's mass. So good job dumbass, you disproved your own claim.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Do you believe that little dirty snowballs would carry gravitationaly objects a half of his size throughout the outer space? And I am the moron here? Also, as I said, he never made predictions about the size of Hale-Bopp companion, you are turning and turning McCanney's words again.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
glauco

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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Astro was long ago proven to be just a NASA shill.

Why no Moon Rovers astro? We know to much about the Moon? Our nearest next available resource. Been sending them to Mars......why not the Moon?

I think 40 years is enough time to lie......try the truth for a change.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8434843


Sure he is, but is soooo funny to see the way he get angry defending his PhD.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
McCanney estimated the size of Hale-Bopp by the electric reactions through the Solar System, which he predicted.
 Quoting: glauco

I don't give a damn what he claims, you just proved him wrong.
He don't have professional equipment to do such kinds of observations like you would do with a professional radio telescope.
 Quoting: glauco

What the fuck are you even talking about? Nowhere did I say anything about a radio telescope. You don't quit, you just keep digging your hole deeper and deeper.
He knew about the Hale-Bopp companion
 Quoting: glauco

No he didn't. He had no ability to resolve Hale-Bopp to .1 arcsecond resolution, nor did he do anything to prove Sakanina's proposed binary nucleus. You said yourself he didn't have access to professional equipment.
And we was talking about C/2012 S1 (ISON), not Hale-Bopp. If Hale-Bopp can have companions, why not C/2012 S1(ISON)?
 Quoting: glauco

Holy shit, you still don't get it. What part of 2LD do you not understand? The claim was that there are "companions" at 2LD or farther. Bullshit. There is a HUGE difference between a binary nucleus with two parts orbiting each other at a close distance of 180 km and "companions" orbiting at a comet at 2LD. Read this post again and again and again. Read it for the rest of the day until you understand it:
Let's assume for a moment ISON is a fairly big comet at about 20km diameter for its physical nucleus. Its volume would then be about 4,188,790,200,000 m^3. If we assume a density of about 1500 kg/m^3 (and that's extremely generous, realistically it'd be closer to 400 kg/m^3) then the total mass is about 6.2831853 x 10^15 kg. If an object were orbiting a comet with that mass at any kind of distance, it wouldn't remain in orbit of it. If an object tried to orbit it at the distance that the moon is from earth, for instance, then it would take over 2000 years to complete a single orbit.

It wouldn't even still be orbiting it though, it would have been stripped off by the sun by now. The comet is currently about 5 AUs from the sun. The current difference in gravitational acceleration due to the sun over the distance of the object orbiting the comet would be about 2.25 x 10-10 m/s^2. That may not sound like much, but it's two orders magnitude higher than the acceleration such an object would experience from the comet, which would only be about 2.84 x 10^-12 m/s^2. In other words, even if an object were "trailing" it as close as the moon is from earth, it would have been peeled off by the sun a while ago. At further orbital distances it would have been ripped away sooner still. In order to stably orbit the comet, an object would have to assume a much lower orbit and be virtually indistinguishable from the comet's nucleus.

McCanney has claimed that the comet is being orbited by objects at two lunar distances. That is in direct contradiction to the evidence. The comet would have to be much, much more massive for that to be the case, and that is his claim indeed. He claims it's the size of the earth or larger. He's STILL claiming Pete's image of the comet showed "companions" but now he's now gone to claim that Pete's images were a NASA hoax to bait him into claiming the presence of companions so that they could then debunk it. He's a full-on nutjob.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Nope, doesn't work like that. As I previously showed, they don't have enough gravity to hold a companion at 1 LD or greater, but they certainly can at 180 km or so. That is a very close orbit, and even then at 2~3 days long it indicates that the comet's mass is only about 0.000001 times the moon's mass. So good job dumbass, you disproved your own claim.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Do you believe that little dirty snowballs would carry gravitationaly objects a half of his size throughout the outer space? And I am the moron here?
 Quoting: Glauco

Yes, you're a moron, your reply is completely nonsensical. Read the above post I quoted from myself until you understand it.
Also, as I said, he never made predictions about the size of Hale-Bopp companion, you are turning and turning McCanney's words again.
 Quoting: Glauco

The size of the "companion" has nothing to do with it. You're way in over your head and you're having your ass handed to you over and over. Sadly you don't even realize it. I don't have endless amounts of time to teach you just how ignorant you are though, you're going to have to figure that out for yourself. Now quit wasting my time and read the quote post above.
astrobanner2
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Astro was long ago proven to be just a NASA shill.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8434843

Prove it or retract your defamatory claim.
Why no Moon Rovers astro?
 Quoting: AC

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
[link to lroc.sese.asu.edu]
[link to farm7.staticflickr.com]
Now prove your defamatory remark or stfu and gtfo
astrobanner2
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
I don't give a damn what he claims, you just proved him wrong.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

If you don't want even to hear about what the other side said to proof his work, you will never know at all. Your position is not the one that a real scientist would assume(I have scientifical degree also).
What the fuck are you even talking about? Nowhere did I say anything about a radio telescope. You don't quit, you just keep digging your hole deeper and deeper.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

I just said the way he does to calculate the probably nucleous side. The radio telescope was just an example. yet turns and turns.

No he didn't. He had no ability to resolve Hale-Bopp to .1 arcsecond resolution, nor did he do anything to prove Sakanina's proposed binary nucleus. You said yourself he didn't have access to professional equipment.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

He never said nothing about Sakanina's work, I did, and Sanina's proposal for what he found is his own interpretation. I just brought it for you to see that comets may have companions. The finding is a fact, the binary nucleous proposal is just a proposal.

Holy shit, you still don't get it. What part of 2LD do you not understand? The claim was that there are "companions" at 2LD or farther. Bullshit. There is a HUGE difference between a binary nucleus with two parts orbiting each other at a close distance of 180 km and "companions" orbiting at a comet at 2LD.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

The binary nucleous, as I said above, is a proposal for what Sakanina saw. The 2LD that McCanney said (he is yet analyzing) have nothing to do about it. Sakanina follows the same theorical world as you do, McCanney not. The method is scientifical, is the same, but the model's proposal is different.

Read this post again and again and again. Read it for the rest of the day until you understand it:
Let's assume for a moment ISON is a fairly big comet at about 20km diameter for its physical nucleus. Its volume would then be about 4,188,790,200,000 m^3. If we assume a density of about 1500 kg/m^3 (and that's extremely generous, realistically it'd be closer to 400 kg/m^3) then the total mass is about 6.2831853 x 10^15 kg. If an object were orbiting a comet with that mass at any kind of distance, it wouldn't remain in orbit of it. If an object tried to orbit it at the distance that the moon is from earth, for instance, then it would take over 2000 years to complete a single orbit.

It wouldn't even still be orbiting it though, it would have been stripped off by the sun by now. The comet is currently about 5 AUs from the sun. The current difference in gravitational acceleration due to the sun over the distance of the object orbiting the comet would be about 2.25 x 10-10 m/s^2. That may not sound like much, but it's two orders magnitude higher than the acceleration such an object would experience from the comet, which would only be about 2.84 x 10^-12 m/s^2. In other words, even if an object were "trailing" it as close as the moon is from earth, it would have been peeled off by the sun a while ago. At further orbital distances it would have been ripped away sooner still. In order to stably orbit the comet, an object would have to assume a much lower orbit and be virtually indistinguishable from the comet's nucleus.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Not if the nucleous is really bigger than this one you proposed. I'm talking about planet sized nucleous, this one is too small. And, also, there are more than gravitational effects in play on McCanney's work. This model predicts that orbits may change if the electrical forces envolved in the comet are too high.


McCanney has claimed that the comet is being orbited by objects at two lunar distances.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

He never claimed, he said it is a possibility, you're still putting words in McCanney's mouth.

That is in direct contradiction to the evidence.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Do you *really* wanna talk about contradictions? Little dirty snow balls comet model have a lot.

The comet would have to be much, much more massive for that to be the case, and that is his claim indeed.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Yeah, it is very larger and massive than common comets.

He claims it's the size of the earth or larger. He's STILL claiming Pete's image of the comet showed "companions" but now he's now gone to claim that Pete's images were a NASA hoax to bait him into claiming the presence of companions so that they could then debunk it. He's a full-on nutjob.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

This part is yet open, probably he really has made this mistake. But it have nothing to do about the claiming of the comet nucleous size. He estimated it long ago in October.

Yes, you're a moron, your reply is completely nonsensical. Read the above post I quoted from myself until you understand it.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Now do you the same.

The size of the "companion" has nothing to do with it. You're way in over your head and you're having your ass handed to you over and over. Sadly you don't even realize it. I don't have endless amounts of time to teach you just how ignorant you are though, you're going to have to figure that out for yourself. Now quit wasting my time and read the quote post above.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

This we will know on September-October 2013. Folks, look to Mars!
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
glauco

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02/01/2013 01:51 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Astro was long ago proven to be just a NASA shill.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8434843

Prove it or retract your defamatory claim.
Why no Moon Rovers astro?
 Quoting: AC

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Now prove your defamatory remark or and
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Hold on, hold on, take it easy, nobody will gonna hurt you here.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
Dr. AstroModerator
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02/01/2013 02:16 PM

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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Astro was long ago proven to be just a NASA shill.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8434843

Prove it or retract your defamatory claim.
Why no Moon Rovers astro?
 Quoting: AC

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Now prove your defamatory remark or and
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Hold on, hold on, take it easy, nobody will gonna hurt you here.
 Quoting: glauco

Shut up. He claims I was proven to be just a NASA shill. He can prove it or shut up. You can either help him prove it or shut up yourself.
astrobanner2
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02/01/2013 02:48 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Astro was long ago proven to be just a NASA shill.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8434843

Prove it or retract your defamatory claim.
Why no Moon Rovers astro?
 Quoting: AC

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Now prove your defamatory remark or and
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Hold on, hold on, take it easy, nobody will gonna hurt you here.
 Quoting: glauco

Shut up. He claims I was proven to be just a NASA shill. He can prove it or shut up. You can either help him prove it or shut up yourself.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Look the way you act, man. No balanced person would react like you do with all these offenses without a higher ($$$$) motivation.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/01/2013 02:54 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Look the way you act, man. No balanced person would react like you do with all these offenses without a higher ($$$$) motivation.
 Quoting: glauco


Your proof Astro is a shill is that Astro reacts negatively to being called a shill?
glauco

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02/01/2013 03:02 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Look the way you act, man. No balanced person would react like you do with all these offenses without a higher ($$$$) motivation.
 Quoting: glauco


Your proof Astro is a shill is that Astro reacts negatively to being called a shill?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17989851


No, it is based on all this thread, take a look on how he is a unstoppable offenser, totally out of control.
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
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02/01/2013 03:14 PM

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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
No, I AM a scientist, and I know what the "other side" said to "proof" their work...
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

You clearly don't know.

You're an idiot, "scientifical" degree or not. Now read the above post I quoted from myself until you understand it. Clearly, you still don't get it.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

I read it. It is valid for a Manhatan Isle sized comet nucleous, not to an *Earth* sized nucleous.
 Quoting: glauco

You have not proven this comet to be earth sized. The claimed evidence for it being earth sized is a false claim of companions. I agreed in that post it WOULD have to be much more massive in order to hold companions at that distance, you clearly did not understand what I wrote. Furthermore, I wrote that for something to orbit a real comet it would have to do so at a much, much closer distance. You clearly didn't understand that part either since you thought the Sakanina paper was such a big deal. In fact it destroyed McCanney's Hale-Bopp claim.
Typo error. I mean "nucleous size".
 Quoting: glauco

Oh, I see, so McCanney used a radio telescope to determine ISON's nucleus size. Seems legit... lol
No, you don't. I preffer to say that McCanney's work contradicts Sakanina's conclusions.
 Quoting: glauco

I don't care what you "prefer" to say, you're dead fucking wrong and suffering from severe confirmation bias. You don't get to ignore the parts that are inconvenient for you. Sakanina's DATA, yes I said DATA, not CONCLUSIONS, indicate that if anything is there it was separated by .1 arcseconds or less and is therefore NOT DETECTABLE BY AMATEUR EQUIPMENT AS MCCANNEY CLAIMED IT WAS! Furthermore, it WOULD indicate that it was only a couple hundred kilometers from the primary nucleus, not several LDs. It has nothing to do with Sakanina's conclusions about the data, which if false simply means there was nothing there at all but just the nucleus by itself.
Sorry, I don't open these strange sites. I know these people claimed a lot of BS about Mayans, Elenin, Hale-Bopp and others.
 Quoting: glauco

McCanney supported that BS and claims that Chuck Shramek's image showed it. Convenient that suddenly you won't look at it.
As I said, on McCanney's work the gravity is not the only thing in play, also your comments regards minor comets, not big ones.
 Quoting: glauco

Hey dipshit, I was replying with that to this comment of yours:
I just brought it for you to see that comets may have companions.
 Quoting: glauco

I then quoted myself to show you why the above comment from you is pointless and idiotic. That has nothing to do with McCanney's claims. You refuse to even follow the course of the argument, you just act like comments that are directed to specific parts of your arguments are actually directed at other parts. You're fucking trolling.
No, wrong, what Sakanina claims to have detected is a proposed detection. If true, then it IS a binary nucleus. PERIOD! It IS only about 180 km separated from the primary nucleus. PERIOD! It is NOT detectable with an amateur telescope. PERIOD!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

This is true *if* Hale Bopp is small, which is not.
 Quoting: glauco

Yes, it is, which is why the binary nucleus he proposed to have detected was so orbiting so closely. That is a fact, it does not change just because you falsely claim Hale Bopp was significantly larger than it actually was. You were wrong and you posted evidence supporting the fact that you're wrong. Sucks to be that stupid, doesn't it?
Do you kiss your mother with this dirty mouth?
 Quoting: glauco

Why the fuck do you care?
You have ignored the critical and irrefutable parts of the data that you yourself presented that DEBUNK YOU! YOU DESTROYED YOUR OWN CLAIM!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

You doing the same.
 Quoting: glauco

No, I'm not. That's not even the least bit clever as a comeback.
It's not, as you already proved with Hale-Bopp and as I will prove with ISON by monitoring the positions and orbits of the planets. You have failed to understand my post. Read it again. And again. For the rest of the day.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

You read it again. You don't understand yet that your post regards small comets, not big ones.
 Quoting: glauco

You don't understand what I posted that in reply to, even though I made it perfectly fucking clear.
I will repeat, I brought that papers to show you that comets may have companions, not to agree or not with Sakanina's work.
 Quoting: glauco

I will repeat, you're a fucking idiot, look at what I fucking said pages ago!
In order to stably orbit the comet, an object would have to assume a much lower orbit and be virtually indistinguishable from the comet's nucleus.
 Quoting: dr. astro

Guess what Sakanina's work showed dumbass? That the binary nucleus was in a much lower orbit than what McCanney claims and that it WAS virtually indistinguishable from the comet's nucleus at only about .1 arcsecond separation.
He made presumptions based on a dirty snow ball comet model, so the conclusions would be very different from McCanney's model.
 Quoting: glauco

No, he measured its angular separation as being that small. Period. That IS the size of the nucleus, fucking tiny, not huge as McCanney claimed. End of story. You debunked yourself.
You do the same all the time.
 Quoting: glauco

No, I directly addressed you point by point, you deflect by pretending I'm addressing different points with each of my points. Fuck you.
The next match is to prove that comets can be large? I just consider what model make more sense: dirty snow ball or electric plasma discharge.
 Quoting: glauco

Another logical fallacy, argument from incredulity. You're one fucking fail after another. I don't care what makes sense to you, you're a fucking moron, your own paper that you yourself posted showed that Hale-Bopp's physical nucleus was tiny. End of story.
It's not a "mistake," it's a fucking LIE, he saw the fucking video and LIED ABOUT WHAT IT CONTAINED!
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

This is *your* interpretation.
 Quoting: glauco

No, he saw the video, that is a fact, he fucking lied about what it contained and you are sitting here in denial of these facts. That is not just my interpretation, that is the FACT of the situation.
You have yet to read my post until you understand it; you still don't understand it.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

Nor even you. I will repeat: your post is related to Manhatan Island Comet Size Nucleous, not Planetary Nucleous.
 Quoting: glauco

I will repeat, I was responding to this statement of yours. I'll repeat it several times so that it can get through your thick fucking skull.

I just brought it for you to see that comets may have companions.
 Quoting: glauco


I just brought it for you to see that comets may have companions.
 Quoting: glauco


I just brought it for you to see that comets may have companions.
 Quoting: glauco


I don't have endless amounts of time to teach you just how ignorant you are though, you're going to have to figure that out for yourself.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro

If you are right and McCanney wrong, it will happen in October this year.
 Quoting: glauco

No, you'll just latch onto whatever bullshit McCanney and the other pseudoscientific idiots are offering in October.
Look the way you put words on others mouth.
I will be more clear: *folks, look directly to Mars in September/October, not to a youtube video.
 Quoting: glauco

Again, you'll point to all the idiots who are claiming to see shit by eye and agreeing with the youtube videos that claim to show 'strange shit' in the sky.
astrobanner2
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
...

Prove it or retract your defamatory claim.
...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Now prove your defamatory remark or and
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Hold on, hold on, take it easy, nobody will gonna hurt you here.
 Quoting: glauco

Shut up. He claims I was proven to be just a NASA shill. He can prove it or shut up. You can either help him prove it or shut up yourself.
 Quoting: Dr. Astro


Look the way you act, man. No balanced person would react like you do with all these offenses without a higher ($$$$) motivation.
 Quoting: glauco


That you don't like the way I act does not prove me to be a "shill." You continuously waste my time trolling me by deflecting and dishonestly misconstruing everything I say as if I were replying to different parts of your arguments than what I actually was. I now get the feeling you're just doing this to get a rise out of me, which is why you now accuse me of being a "shill." Whatever pal, I don't expect to see you admitting you were wrong come this fall when the comet comes by and the planets are all still right where they should be. You're not honest enough for that.
astrobanner2
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02/01/2013 04:38 PM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
I will be more clear: *folks, look directly to Mars in September/October, not to a youtube video.


Mccanney is suggesting people go out and pick up a good pair of astronomy friendly field glasses to watch the show. He is not saying you will be able to see the discharges with the naked eye, though he is stating it is possible we humans will witness a show like our ancestors once saw.


Hale Bopp was discovered much earlier and much further out than any other comet. Was it something like seen and discussed while it was still 18 months out, something like that.

Not likely with a "tiny" comet.


I believe the solar capacitor electric plasma theory has something to it.


Last time the comets really came through, there was a massive effect on the entire solar system.
glauco

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02/04/2013 06:32 AM
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Well, I'm tired =/

After one week talking with a real PhD, finaly we get in a point were we cannot go further. I cannot prove that Hale-Bopp was large, but no official images were made professionaly by real good equipment, like radio telescopes. The majority of images available from this comet came from amateurs. So any conclusion about this comet's size, no matter it is or not a dirty snow ball, would come from what the model says about.

The dirty snow ball says he is small, dirty and cold. The electric plasma discharge comet model says he is large, hot and electric. *period*.

I prefer to let common people to decide what is real or not by showing them the truth. This is the comet lemmon's picture taken by Rolf Wahl Olsen in Auckland, Nueva Zelanda, at January 28 2013, available in [link to www.eluniversohoy.com]

[link to www.eluniversohoy.com]


Let's people decide by themselves what makes more sense:
1-) This extreme green neon light, naked eye visible during the day light, being reflected by sun light far away from him, warming up a tiny cold cloud

or

2-) An electric discharge that realy makes this small thing to light like a light bulb!

Do you remember when I said your PhD is only in your mind? I mean that, when some comet realy big and potentially dangerous come in to our inner solar system, and the people got to realize that it is not a tiny little snow ball, people with knowledge and academic status like you will be the most unwelcome people in the world for lying to us for so long!

Last Edited by glauco on 02/04/2013 06:59 AM
Listen to McCanney: [link to jmccsci.com]
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Well, I'm tired =/

After one week talking with a real PhD, finaly we get in a point were we cannot go further. I cannot prove that Hale-Bopp was large, but no official images were made professionaly by real good equipment,
 Quoting: glauco

Yes they were, including the hubble images we were discussing last week the inconvenient parts of which you ignored.
The majority of images available from this comet came from amateurs.
 Quoting: glauco

No shit. Welcome to every major comet.

So any conclusion about this comet's size, no matter it is or not a dirty snow ball, would come from what the model says about.
 Quoting: glauco

Wrong. Strict upper limits on its size can be, and were, established by the images that were taken. As the hubble images showed, it was tiny and if there was a companion, it was separated by no more than about .1 arcseconds.
Do you remember when I said your PhD is only in your mind? I mean that, when some comet realy big and potentially dangerous come in to our inner solar system, and the people got to realize that it is not a tiny little snow ball,
 Quoting: glauco

I don't care what you think it is, but it is NOT potentially dangerous. You're fear mongering and playing on people's ignorance.
astrobanner2
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Re: BREAKING: Scientist claims comet ISON has companions!
Well, I'm tired =/

After one week talking with a real PhD, finaly we get in a point were we cannot go further. I cannot prove that Hale-Bopp was large, but no official images were made professionaly by real good equipment, like radio telescopes. The majority of images available from this comet came from amateurs. So any conclusion about this comet's size, no matter it is or not a dirty snow ball, would come from what the model says about.

The dirty snow ball says he is small, dirty and cold. The electric plasma discharge comet model says he is large, hot and electric. *period*.

I prefer to let common people to decide what is real or not by showing them the truth. This is the comet lemmon's picture taken by Rolf Wahl Olsen in Auckland, Nueva Zelanda, at January 28 2013, available in [link to www.eluniversohoy.com]

[link to www.eluniversohoy.com]


Let's people decide by themselves what makes more sense:
1-) This extreme green neon light, naked eye visible during the day light, being reflected by sun light far away from him, warming up a tiny cold cloud

or

2-) An electric discharge that realy makes this small thing to light like a light bulb!

Do you remember when I said your PhD is only in your mind? I mean that, when some comet realy big and potentially dangerous come in to our inner solar system, and the people got to realize that it is not a tiny little snow ball, people with knowledge and academic status like you will be the most unwelcome people in the world for lying to us for so long!
 Quoting: glauco


applause2applause2applause2applause2applause2

You are 100 % correct.
And it is not when some comet realy big and potentially dangerous come in to our inner solar system because it is (they are in fact) already here. Wait and see.

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