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The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics

 
508527

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01/22/2013 11:10 AM
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You prepper-tards will self dose and make yourselves deaf, fry your livers, induce serious diarrhea and resulting dehydration or even kill yourselves outright because of incorrect antibiotic use.

There is a reason doctors, pharmacists and medical scientists spend years studying this stuff, its fucking complicated, meaning you cant just wing it.

Antibiotics can be dangerous medications, its not like using aspirin, you really have to know what you are doing.

I have 5 years of microbiology, specifically bacteriology education under my belt and even have experience in antimicrobial compound research... and unless it was SHTF i wouldn't be comfortable self dosing or even dosing others unless they had serious signs of say an anerobic wound infection which would probably lead to gangrene without treatment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28070593


stfu doc-shill
Eagle # 1
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01/22/2013 11:15 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
HI, Emerald eye ! So VERY NICE to have you back !

Have been giving references/information about your wonderful "Symptoms of Radiation Sickness ", you posted back in March of 2011. I had my grandson type them all out from a list I copied, and we printed them up for the whole family and some friends. As there is continuous/increasing fallout from Fukushima lately, as shown by my survey meter, (that ONLY reads gamma), and especially in the milk from Stop&Shop)), I tried to warn those not here in 2011.

As it HAS been 22 months since the radiation started to fall, I believe we are passing into the CUMULATIVE DOSE of radiation passing the 50 Rems/Rads that brings ON the symptoms, including " Flu-like symptoms ". Having contracted that last week, with NO FEVER, I suspect I have passed that marker myself, even though I have been using about 5-6 ways you recommended, for riding the body of same, blocks absorption of same or interfering with uptake of same.

Eagle
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 11:22 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
For entertainment purposes only and not meant as veterinarian advice or medical advice:

For cats with colds (upper respiratory infection) 50mg of amoxycillin 2 times a day. 10 to 14 days.

Dose of Flagyl for cats with diarrhea is 40 mg 2 times a day. FIVE DAYS ONLY! Do not give longer without vet approval.

Doxycycline will become toxic after the expiration date. This is one anti-biotic that does not just become weaker with age. Throw it out if it is past the date on the bottle.
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 11:24 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
For entertainment purposes only and not meant as veterinarian advice or medical advice:

For cats with colds (upper respiratory infection) 50mg of amoxycillin 2 times a day. 10 to 14 days.

Dose of Flagyl for cats with diarrhea is 40 mg 2 times a day. FIVE DAYS ONLY! Do not give longer without vet approval.

Doxycycline will become toxic after the expiration date. This is one anti-biotic that does not just become weaker with age. Throw it out if it is past the date on the bottle.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17851333


Dosage above is for adult cats, not kittens. Do not increase dosage for weight.
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 11:36 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
Check you mailbox Emerald.
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 11:36 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
You prepper-tards will self dose and make yourselves deaf, fry your livers, induce serious diarrhea and resulting dehydration or even kill yourselves outright because of incorrect antibiotic use.

There is a reason doctors, pharmacists and medical scientists spend years studying this stuff, its fucking complicated, meaning you cant just wing it.

Antibiotics can be dangerous medications, its not like using aspirin, you really have to know what you are doing.

I have 5 years of microbiology, specifically bacteriology education under my belt and even have experience in antimicrobial compound research... and unless it was SHTF i wouldn't be comfortable self dosing or even dosing others unless they had serious signs of say an anerobic wound infection which would probably lead to gangrene without treatment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28070593


stfu doc-shill
 Quoting: 508527


Not a doctor, a microbiologist.

Look, I dont care if you accidentally induce partial deafness because you took Cipro for only two or three days, im just trying to warn you and others in this thread that antibiotic use is not as simple as you think.

No medication is 100% safe, and antibiotics are some of the more dangerous medications.

You guys just need to know this is not a risk free practice.

I admire your will to be self sufficient and protect you and yours, but naivety is dangerous, ignorance is fatal.
Epic Beard Guy
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01/22/2013 11:37 AM

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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
You prepper-tards will self dose and make yourselves deaf, fry your livers, induce serious diarrhea and resulting dehydration or even kill yourselves outright because of incorrect antibiotic use.

There is a reason doctors, pharmacists and medical scientists spend years studying this stuff, its fucking complicated, meaning you cant just wing it.

Antibiotics can be dangerous medications, its not like using aspirin, you really have to know what you are doing.

I have 5 years of microbiology, specifically bacteriology education under my belt and even have experience in antimicrobial compound research... and unless it was SHTF i wouldn't be comfortable self dosing or even dosing others unless they had serious signs of say an anerobic wound infection which would probably lead to gangrene without treatment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28070593


Not likely. It's not like we're brits or something. In America we are smart enough to follow instructions like Emerald Eye is giving here. I have used fish antibiotics with no adverse effects at all. I would not reccommend them to anyone with an IQ in the single digits, so you should probably not try it.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 11:40 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
Aquatic pharmacies on ebay. Great prices and delivery
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 11:49 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
Tetracyclines cause chelation of calcium ions therefore a build up in bones and teeth. But yellowing of teeth is the least of your SHTF worries.

Hepatoxicity and bone deformites are a risk. Even if it is low.

Risk worth taking if you have a severe respiratory infection, exposure to, lyme, lepto etc.

This is a very very complicated risk assesment situation you guys are talking about.

Still, suprainfection and vitamin b deficiency are much more likely with tetcycs, especially given expected post SHTF malnutrition and stress.

And thats just one class of antibiotic. Penicillin allergies are quite common even if pencillin is often fairly safe. Chloramphenicol and all amphenicols pose issues relating to bone marrow. Jaundice with Macrolides etc.

Just letting you guys know that even using some antibiotics for even a couple of days can have serious side effects.

Please be careful.
Epic Beard Guy
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01/22/2013 11:49 AM

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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
the pitty is, you get them easily anywhere but in Germany.

any advice/suggestions how to get them here?
 Quoting: phoenixe


You can buy them on Ebay, or any pet supply store on line. I don't know about shipping them to Germany, but generally th seller doesn't care where they send them. If they wont ship there, have them sent to a freind or family outside Germany, then ship as private package without seller's info on box.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 11:51 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
You prepper-tards will self dose and make yourselves deaf, fry your livers, induce serious diarrhea and resulting dehydration or even kill yourselves outright because of incorrect antibiotic use.

There is a reason doctors, pharmacists and medical scientists spend years studying this stuff, its fucking complicated, meaning you cant just wing it.

Antibiotics can be dangerous medications, its not like using aspirin, you really have to know what you are doing.

I have 5 years of microbiology, specifically bacteriology education under my belt and even have experience in antimicrobial compound research... and unless it was SHTF i wouldn't be comfortable self dosing or even dosing others unless they had serious signs of say an anerobic wound infection which would probably lead to gangrene without treatment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28070593


So what? It's our bodies and our choices and our consequences. Most of us can research quite well and have a healthy respect for consequences.
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 11:51 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
I have used fish antibiotics with no adverse effects at all. I would not reccommend them to anyone with an IQ in the single digits, so you should probably not try it.
 Quoting: Epic Beard Guy


Anecdotes and ad-hominim. Cool story bro!
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 11:51 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
if you dont understand how and when to use them, and when not to it's a waste of money and more often than not dangerous.
TruthBeGone

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01/22/2013 11:54 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
the pitty is, you get them easily anywhere but in Germany.

any advice/suggestions how to get them here?
 Quoting: phoenixe


You can't buy Fishmox in Germany? It's not a regulated product so you should be able to order even from overseas.
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 11:54 AM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
all these drugs aren't exactly hard to get with a prescription. if you know say, a dentist, all can be easily aquired
Epic Beard Guy
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01/22/2013 11:58 AM

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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
Tetracyclines cause chelation of calcium ions therefore a build up in bones and teeth. But yellowing of teeth is the least of your SHTF worries.

Hepatoxicity and bone deformites are a risk. Even if it is low.

Risk worth taking if you have a severe respiratory infection, exposure to, lyme, lepto etc.

This is a very very complicated risk assesment situation you guys are talking about.

Still, suprainfection and vitamin b deficiency are much more likely with tetcycs, especially given expected post SHTF malnutrition and stress.

And thats just one class of antibiotic. Penicillin allergies are quite common even if pencillin is often fairly safe. Chloramphenicol and all amphenicols pose issues relating to bone marrow. Jaundice with Macrolides etc.

Just letting you guys know that even using some antibiotics for even a couple of days can have serious side effects.

Please be careful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28070593


Yellowing of teeth from Tetracycline is only a problem for children with teeth still forming. This yellowing is alll the way through. You can have your teeth whitened, but it wont last long. A good dental whitening at the dentist office might last a year. All the whitening procedures are developed for teeth with surface staining. I had a dentist tell me that the stain can't go all the way through. I told him to look it up. He did, and he apologized.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 12:00 PM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
Not likely. It's not like we're brits or something. In America we are smart enough to follow instructions like Emerald Eye is giving here. I have used fish antibiotics with no adverse effects at all. I would not reccommend them to anyone with an IQ in the single digits, so you should probably not try it.
 Quoting: Epic Beard Guy


Whilst i appreciate and respect the good intentions of everybody in this thread, if you cant grasp the simple idea that somebody with half a decades experience with microbiology is saying this is pretty dangerous practice guys, and you all aught to be very very careful.. well its your funeral.

I'm not saying absolutely 100% dont ever do this, im saying, be very very fucking careful.
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 12:01 PM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
bump For 'Beautiful Emerald Eye' !
emerald eye (OP)
Keeping an "eye out" for the truth.

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01/22/2013 12:11 PM

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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
Many thanks to whoever green pinned thishf...I didn't think it would get much attention, but I do feel the information is important, mainly for entertainment and discussion reasons of course.cool2

To those of you who have said that antibiotics can kill you, you are absolutely correct. Even in the hands of qualified professionals, there can be serious and even fatal adverse effects with the use of antibiotics. The reason that I decided to post this information is that in true a SHTF situation, people are less likely to use them incorrectly if they have some basic information, and know some of the indications for use and also some of what to watch out for.

The bottom line is that with even a little information, antibiotics are less likely to kill you than with no information at all in a desperate situation.

Of course there is no way that a small list like this can be all inclusive, and no one should take any antibiotic not supervised by a competent health care provider in normal circumstances.

Therefore this discussion is entirely fictional for the fictional world in which there is no access to a competent health care provider. May that situation always stay within the realm of fiction....



To those of you who asked about radiation, here is an old thread of mine....

Thread: **RADIATION PROTECTION**- non prescription list, revised and updated.

Good luck to us all...smile_kiss
Courage forges a path through all obstacles,
while fear is the obstruction of all dreams.


The only way that anyone gets something for nothing, is that someone else has given up something for nothing.
Mister_Worlwide

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01/22/2013 12:19 PM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
5* stars for you and thanks for this wonderful thread!
There's nothing like Miami's heat....
...Padre Island, TX does beat it!
Epic Beard Guy
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01/22/2013 12:20 PM

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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
Not likely. It's not like we're brits or something. In America we are smart enough to follow instructions like Emerald Eye is giving here. I have used fish antibiotics with no adverse effects at all. I would not reccommend them to anyone with an IQ in the single digits, so you should probably not try it.
 Quoting: Epic Beard Guy


Whilst i appreciate and respect the good intentions of everybody in this thread, if you cant grasp the simple idea that somebody with half a decades experience with microbiology is saying this is pretty dangerous practice guys, and you all aught to be very very careful.. well its your funeral.

I'm not saying absolutely 100% dont ever do this, im saying, be very very fucking careful.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28070593


Nobody should ever take any medication wihout knowing all the facts, but in an emergency you may have to take care of yourself. If anyone in my family was very sick, and no medical services available, I'd have to figure out the correct dose and give them antibiotics. This thread gives us the info we can use to do that safely. You can do what ever you want with that info, but I will keep it close to the meds.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 12:21 PM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
bump
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 12:23 PM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
Hi There,

I had an adverse reaction to levaquin. It is of the "Fluoroquinolone" variety of anti-biotic.

[link to articles.mercola.com]

I ended up in severe pain and unable to walk for days. I still have pain and cramps from these things.

Some people end up with tendonitis or torn ligaments from Fluoroquinolones.

I doubt I would touch them again....
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 12:35 PM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
Not knowing what works on what with medications is like trying to weld without knowing how to use the tools of the trade.
cabbage_goddess

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01/22/2013 12:54 PM

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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
There is some great information here...

I have not had time to read through all of it (as I want to comb through the websites listed as well).

Do you have a top 2-3 (broad spectrum antibiotics) that you would recommend if you had to pick just a few?
 Quoting: MissionInvisible


This is a tough question. I narrowed it down to the following in the above:

First the disclaimer:

The following is for entertainment and discussion purposes, ONLY seek professional medical guidance before attempting to diagnose or treat any condition. The same rules apply to veterinary medicine. Also, I do not recommend the ingestion of any product not specifically manufactured for human use, unless it is an emergency situation, and no other viable alternative exists.

In addition, people with kidney, liver problems ,and many other serious health issues may be at increased risk while using antibiotics and should consult with a qualified health care provider prior to considering any antibiotic usage. Some medications may also adversely interact with antibiotics and these should be discussed with your health care provider prior to considering any antibiotic usage.


3. In stocking a medical BOB on a limited budget, I would pick first Cephalexin (Keflex), second Metronidazole (Flagyl), third Erythromycin or azithromycin (Zithromax) if you can afford the more expensive of the two, fourth Sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim (Septra DS, Bactrim DS). and fifth Ciprofloxin or Doxycycline. No matter what my budget, I would make sure to have Florastor. Those are my picks, but you should check with your health care provider to see if you or people in your family have and counterindications to any of these, and then choose accordingly.

To narrow further to just 2 or three, my first pick would always be Cephalexin (Keflex) followed by Metronidazole (Fagyl). They are both broad spectrum, and Keflex is usually very easily tolerated and kids, pregnant women and dogs can usually take it. The Metronidazole covers anaerobic infections such as abscesses, MRSA, and would help if someone came down with C Diff. The Erythryomcin or Zithromax would be extremely valuable for respiratory infections. So that is a must have as well, and maybe should even be bumped to second. That is as small as I can pare the list down.... Sorry.hf
 Quoting: emerald eye


Thank you - my husband and I had been talking about this and I had narrowed down the list to the ones you said, in the order you said (except clindamycin last on my list). This was very helpful! 5* to you, OP!!
Morpheus
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01/22/2013 01:05 PM

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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
You prepper-tards will self dose and make yourselves deaf, fry your livers, induce serious diarrhea and resulting dehydration or even kill yourselves outright because of incorrect antibiotic use.

There is a reason doctors, pharmacists and medical scientists spend years studying this stuff, its fucking complicated, meaning you cant just wing it.

Antibiotics can be dangerous medications, its not like using aspirin, you really have to know what you are doing.

I have 5 years of microbiology, specifically bacteriology education under my belt and even have experience in antimicrobial compound research... and unless it was SHTF i wouldn't be comfortable self dosing or even dosing others unless they had serious signs of say an anerobic wound infection which would probably lead to gangrene without treatment.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28070593


stfu doc-shill
 Quoting: 508527


Not a doctor, a microbiologist.

Look, I dont care if you accidentally induce partial deafness because you took Cipro for only two or three days, im just trying to warn you and others in this thread that antibiotic use is not as simple as you think.

No medication is 100% safe, and antibiotics are some of the more dangerous medications.

You guys just need to know this is not a risk free practice.

I admire your will to be self sufficient and protect you and yours, but naivety is dangerous, ignorance is fatal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28070593


You made a comment about Cipro inducing deafness if taken for 2 or 3 days. Why don't you fully explain yourself ? It's easy to criticize but why not educate us with what you know ?
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 01:06 PM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
I asked my doctor one day about his. So I wasn't too crazy because he's had the question before.

So he says, yeah, in general they can be used as it obviously is the antibiotic humans use. Only two things he mentioned: 1 was the pharmaceutical quality, where they are manufactured. The standards are not the same (think meningitis), and 2: the biggest difference are the binding agents. Fish meds are meant to be dissolved in water and the binding agent is very different than human meds as we have acid to break down the meds. So he said dosing is very difficult. Usually the problem is that by the time you would take your last dosage, because of the different binding agent, the first dosage would just be taking effect.
He didn't seem concerned about the actual danger, just the effectiveness. But, if things really really really got bad, it's worth a stab I suppose. I just wouldn't be taking them to save money. Lol.
 Quoting: PENG


In many cases there is a number on the pill that you can look up online to see where it is manufactured. I tried this and found that some pet meds I had were made in the same facilities as human meds.
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 01:22 PM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
I asked my doctor one day about his. So I wasn't too crazy because he's had the question before.

So he says, yeah, in general they can be used as it obviously is the antibiotic humans use. Only two things he mentioned: 1 was the pharmaceutical quality, where they are manufactured. The standards are not the same (think meningitis), and 2: the biggest difference are the binding agents. Fish meds are meant to be dissolved in water and the binding agent is very different than human meds as we have acid to break down the meds. So he said dosing is very difficult. Usually the problem is that by the time you would take your last dosage, because of the different binding agent, the first dosage would just be taking effect.
He didn't seem concerned about the actual danger, just the effectiveness. But, if things really really really got bad, it's worth a stab I suppose. I just wouldn't be taking them to save money. Lol.
 Quoting: PENG


In many cases there is a number on the pill that you can look up online to see where it is manufactured. I tried this and found that some pet meds I had were made in the same facilities as human meds.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32805102


Theyre all made in the same places or equivalent.
It would be too expensive to duplicate facilities, and the majority of antibiotics MADE and USED is for ANIMALS, not people
Anonymous Coward
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01/22/2013 01:29 PM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
You made a comment about Cipro inducing deafness if taken for 2 or 3 days. Why don't you fully explain yourself ? It's easy to criticize but why not educate us with what you know ?
 Quoting: Morpheus


Apparently rare side effect for Cipro in humans and hasn't been conclusively shown in animal models, however a casual glance around the internet on forums says otherwise.

Dont just take my word for it, google 'tinnitus cipro' ' cipro hearing loss' etc. Seems plenty of people have been having hearing related side effects.

Potential deafness due to toxicity is a known side effect of some potent injected antibiotics such as Gentamicin.

I'm not saying dont ever take cipro, id rather risk being deaf than dead, but i think it would be a shame for unaware people to buy cipro on the internet and then take it when they have an infected fingernail only to suffer partial hearing loss within a week and not know why.
CtYankee

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01/22/2013 01:36 PM
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Re: The TSHTF guide to fish and bird antibiotics
clappa
CtYankee

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