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*Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*

 
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/23/2013 01:50 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
MM, see my recent post on Documented Muslim Training Camps in rural areas. We can expect for that to be an issue is the SHTF. It's something a lot of preppers don't know about, and I would carefully make inquiries around your region to see if Muslims are purchasing rural property and storing guns. They may indeed take advantage if the USA ever had a collapse. That's why they're infilitrating.

I have deliberately written a ton of complex prepper tips here. They build upon each other, so someone could slowly digest and learn how to do them.

If I can be a resource or help you by explaining anything then feel free to ask me.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 01:54 AM
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01/23/2013 02:26 AM
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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
Why would I want to give you my food and guns for everyone else's benefit, and then work for you? If I have supplies the last thing I'm going to do is hand them over, and I certainly wouldn't be telling anyone about what I had. If you think people that want your stuff are going to knock and ask for it, think again. They'll kill you and take anything they want.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30110292

While a lot of people have guns, a lot of people are cowards. It's been forever, if at all, since they shot their weapon. Most people don't have the capability to fight this way.

In addition violent crime has plummeted since a decade ago. It's something like a 50% drop. While it's always possible for people to band together post-collapse, I believe that most people are talkers and not doers. They'll get dehydrated in the first 48 hours, drink water from hot water tanks, and then collapse. Some will live longer, but get progressively weaker and then die.

The sociopaths or people who have been in jail before plus druggies looking for a fix, those are the ones to worry about. See my sig for extensive details on determining how many of those folks live around you and planning for that eventuality.

Since many of them lack prepping skills, in my area they would likely die. Some won't and will organize and you'll be dealing with them for about the first 6 months of a post-collapse situation. They will either adapt, enslave people, or starve.

Enslavement and new feudal societies in rural areas is a possibility and worst case scenario.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


You can't really compare statistics from the past decade in a "civilized" society to something like we would have if shtf. People are nice because they are happy and fed. After people get hungry and thirsty enough you'd be surprised at what even the wimpiest person is capable of, especially if they have a gun. If they're starving and they have to choose between them and you, they won't be picking you.
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/23/2013 02:37 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
Why would I want to give you my food and guns for everyone else's benefit, and then work for you? If I have supplies the last thing I'm going to do is hand them over, and I certainly wouldn't be telling anyone about what I had. If you think people that want your stuff are going to knock and ask for it, think again. They'll kill you and take anything they want.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30110292

While a lot of people have guns, a lot of people are cowards. It's been forever, if at all, since they shot their weapon. Most people don't have the capability to fight this way.

In addition violent crime has plummeted since a decade ago. It's something like a 50% drop. While it's always possible for people to band together post-collapse, I believe that most people are talkers and not doers. They'll get dehydrated in the first 48 hours, drink water from hot water tanks, and then collapse. Some will live longer, but get progressively weaker and then die.

The sociopaths or people who have been in jail before plus druggies looking for a fix, those are the ones to worry about. See my sig for extensive details on determining how many of those folks live around you and planning for that eventuality.

Since many of them lack prepping skills, in my area they would likely die. Some won't and will organize and you'll be dealing with them for about the first 6 months of a post-collapse situation. They will either adapt, enslave people, or starve.

Enslavement and new feudal societies in rural areas is a possibility and worst case scenario.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


You can't really compare statistics from the past decade in a "civilized" society to something like we would have if shtf. People are nice because they are happy and fed. After people get hungry and thirsty enough you'd be surprised at what even the wimpiest person is capable of, especially if they have a gun. If they're starving and they have to choose between them and you, they won't be picking you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30110292


Most Americans are quite obese. There's only pockets in Western states and Maine that are not. As such, while some are armed, most won't have the ability to hoof it once the gasoline runs out. A ton will be walking to perceived safe zones and will have heart attacks.

Your points are well taken, but I've spent a ton of time analyzing this. I believe that most people will be in such bad shape from starvation that their low blood sugar will impede their thinking process as well as vastly reducing upper body strength.

Watch any amateur survival show, and you'll see by the second week, a ton drop out as their glycogen is used up from heavy exertion. That's TV with a ton of excess food and clean water. In a real life situation, most people don't have a clue and will end up poisoning themselves with pathogens from locally gathered water. It will be ruinous to them, just as it was in real life on the frontier.

[link to www.healthytimesblog.com]

To prove this to you personally, fast for one week and try to lift weights and do cardio each day. By day four or five, I bet you feel just awful. By day seven, I think you'll be a believer.

People are not as tough as they think, and the average person is very much a sheep.

When the collapse comes, it will be gradual. People will be caught unawares, run out of food, but will think, "No worries the government will save us." They won't realize that chances are slim to none that help will arrive and only in big cities and way way too late if at all.

But much of that is moot. Three days without water, and it's people passing out. By the time they react to think about stealing and using guns, it will be too late.

What's more likely is as I detailed, armed sociopaths who won't hesitate. That's who you need to worry about.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 02:44 AM
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/23/2013 02:53 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
[link to www.medicinenet.com]

Look at the symptoms of dehydration

Initially the fight or flight response is heightened because PANIC sets in, but that's early and before a person will start responding.

By then, cognition is way lower, fatigue exagerated, reaction time slow, they stagger, they fall, they have no upper body strength, they hallucinate, their blood pressure plummets.

Do some Internet searches on military studies because they've done extensive ones on this phenomena.

It's why they learned how to double hydration for soldiers in desert environments. When that happens, those trained soldiers can go all day and be lethal, if they don't... they lack staminia and get slower and slower and start giving up and have heart palpitations and only those with deep inner resolve keep going.

The average Joe who's a couch potato? He'll never make it. He has not developed any glycogen in his muscles. He'll be cramping, doubled over, vomiting, but his body is catabolizing literally eating itself, but that won't work, because you NEED WATER to do that, so all that energy can be liberated.

If he eats food and doesn't consume water or liquids, then he'll throw it back up. His electrolytes (sodium and potassium) are all screwed up and his kidneys will start failing.

The brain sees no blood sugar, for water is needed to make digestion possible. The mind says, "UH UH, system shutdown imminent...and you pass out.

Unless he reacts immediately the first day, then what's likely is 2.5 days into no water, he panics but it's too late because he's approaching delirium.

Trying to find a good video so you can see. The Israelis did a major study before the 6 day war. I saw a video once showing the effects on reaction time.

If you see the 127 Hours, you'll understand this phenomena better.
[link to www.imdb.com]


Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 08:33 AM
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2013 03:05 AM
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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
Not to worry. The retards will soon die off. Their freebies will soon come to an end and so will they.....
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/23/2013 03:13 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
[link to www.mmdnewswire.com]

"Studies have shown that up to 80 percent of military troops become dehydrated while performing their duties in the field and that even mild dehydration can cut troop performance by 8%. According to the US Army Research Institute for Environmental Medicine, adequate fluid replacement is a critical need when performing physical work in hot environments. In fact, the Northern California Joint Information Center reports that dehydration is one of the most common injuries that pull firefighters from the line in hot conditions."

So imagine what happens by day three to a coach potato that decides he better rob his neighbor since he's dying of thirst.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 03:14 AM
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/23/2013 03:35 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
By day 4-5 of starvation, the sheep will be experiencing hypoglycemia. If they're rationing water, a classic mistake, then they've got dehydration creeping on them too.

When they stand up suddenly, they'll have sudden swift hypotension and will likely fall. The blood sugar is low from starving and the blood volume has fallen. It's naturally stored in the legs. Then when you rise the pressure drops and not enough BP is measured in the baroreptors and the brain goes, "Forget it dude! I'm checking out and saving blood to save my ass."

Hypoglycemia


For combat, those baroreceptors are in the neck, and this is why you do a knifehand strike in that region. It triggers them and the person passes out.

[link to www.cybermedicine2000.com]

In the case of zombie attackers when the SHTF, then they will be especially prone to an attack in that zone. Likewise a choke-hold will make them pass out in a matter of a 30 seconds to a minute. Because of the fear response, their BP is way up as is breathing so they are even more prone to pass out.

Use one arm to choke and grab your bicep from the arm that's choking them and push with the second arm to choke and push at the same time for a faster choke.


The speed of them passing out depends upon their struggling, the tightness of the choke, their body position. See how fast the guy went out in 15 seconds! It's something you should be practicing.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 08:35 AM
Mutant Monkey (OP)

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01/23/2013 08:26 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
Why would I want to give you my food and guns for everyone else's benefit, and then work for you? If I have supplies the last thing I'm going to do is hand them over, and I certainly wouldn't be telling anyone about what I had. If you think people that want your stuff are going to knock and ask for it, think again. They'll kill you and take anything they want.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 30110292

While a lot of people have guns, a lot of people are cowards. It's been forever, if at all, since they shot their weapon. Most people don't have the capability to fight this way.

In addition violent crime has plummeted since a decade ago. It's something like a 50% drop. While it's always possible for people to band together post-collapse, I believe that most people are talkers and not doers. They'll get dehydrated in the first 48 hours, drink water from hot water tanks, and then collapse. Some will live longer, but get progressively weaker and then die.

The sociopaths or people who have been in jail before plus druggies looking for a fix, those are the ones to worry about. See my sig for extensive details on determining how many of those folks live around you and planning for that eventuality.

Since many of them lack prepping skills, in my area they would likely die. Some won't and will organize and you'll be dealing with them for about the first 6 months of a post-collapse situation. They will either adapt, enslave people, or starve.

Enslavement and new feudal societies in rural areas is a possibility and worst case scenario.

 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid




It's pretty safe to assume that a large portion of the population will due off due to lack of knowledge on how to survive off grid. Id estimate that by month 1, the only people left will be those that grouped and those that thrived in self reliant conditions.
 Quoting: Mutant Monkey

I agree. I've studied that for decades. Re-read my reply on diabetes because I added stuff especially for your brother.

Ignore idiot trolls.

Yeah, if you can hold off for a month, most people will have died.

I talked about the amount of obese people once in great detail because we know from military studies on cachexia how long people can survive on little to no food. Some can make it for 6-8 weeks, but the issue is water. Lack of water will kill most by the first week.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


I thank you sincerely for the information. the diabetic however is my brother's FIANCÉ, though it makes no difference really. As long as I relay you're generous information, your advice will be headed.
hf
heistmeister
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01/23/2013 08:28 AM
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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
Thats another reason to be able to own guns, you will have to fight off the moochers.
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/23/2013 08:29 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
...

While a lot of people have guns, a lot of people are cowards. It's been forever, if at all, since they shot their weapon. Most people don't have the capability to fight this way.

In addition violent crime has plummeted since a decade ago. It's something like a 50% drop. While it's always possible for people to band together post-collapse, I believe that most people are talkers and not doers. They'll get dehydrated in the first 48 hours, drink water from hot water tanks, and then collapse. Some will live longer, but get progressively weaker and then die.

The sociopaths or people who have been in jail before plus druggies looking for a fix, those are the ones to worry about. See my sig for extensive details on determining how many of those folks live around you and planning for that eventuality.

Since many of them lack prepping skills, in my area they would likely die. Some won't and will organize and you'll be dealing with them for about the first 6 months of a post-collapse situation. They will either adapt, enslave people, or starve.

Enslavement and new feudal societies in rural areas is a possibility and worst case scenario.

 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid




It's pretty safe to assume that a large portion of the population will due off due to lack of knowledge on how to survive off grid. Id estimate that by month 1, the only people left will be those that grouped and those that thrived in self reliant conditions.
 Quoting: Mutant Monkey

I agree. I've studied that for decades. Re-read my reply on diabetes because I added stuff especially for your brother.

Ignore idiot trolls.

Yeah, if you can hold off for a month, most people will have died.

I talked about the amount of obese people once in great detail because we know from military studies on cachexia how long people can survive on little to no food. Some can make it for 6-8 weeks, but the issue is water. Lack of water will kill most by the first week.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


I thank you sincerely for the information. the diabetic however is my brother's FIANCÉ, though it makes no difference really. As long as I relay you're generous information, your advice will be headed.
hf
 Quoting: Mutant Monkey


Yep, I edited fixed her hours ago and you're welcome! Folks if you like tips like this, please come visit the 1st topic in my sig where I comprehensively look at prepping in a practical way. No crico candles, no silliness, real stuff you can use and mostly by making it yourself on the cheap.

Sending me a green karma keeps me writing as I use it for ban immunity.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 08:39 AM
chowan

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01/23/2013 08:48 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
All vey well and good having such a list but in the
case of an emergency these people you have coming to
visit just might not be able to carry it all.

If you think enough of them to have them come in the first
place you should also plan on having a little extra for them as well or insist that some of their provisions are
stored at your place

It might be more sensible for them to cache their goods for later retrieval for several reasons.
sheell be right mate
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01/23/2013 08:49 AM
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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
if you come to my house just be hot and willing to please me and my wife
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2013 08:57 AM
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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
All vey well and good having such a list but in the
case of an emergency these people you have coming to
visit just might not be able to carry it all.

If you think enough of them to have them come in the first
place you should also plan on having a little extra for them as well or insist that some of their provisions are
stored at your place

It might be more sensible for them to cache their goods for later retrieval for several reasons.
 Quoting: chowan


Exactly don't store all of your eggs in one basket, a great piece of wisdom.
Maintain at least two places to have your necessities.
Then if there is a disaster natural or man made you have a back up.
Also division of duties based upon skills is a good thing to work out.
If you have a mechanic, a electrician, a butcher and a tailor working together they are going to be carrying their own tools and you don't want the electrician dressing down deer or the butcher fixing your alcohol powered four wheeler.
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/23/2013 08:58 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
All vey well and good having such a list but in the
case of an emergency these people you have coming to
visit just might not be able to carry it all.

If you think enough of them to have them come in the first
place you should also plan on having a little extra for them as well or insist that some of their provisions are
stored at your place

It might be more sensible for them to cache their goods for later retrieval for several reasons.
 Quoting: chowan

Good points. I would also say that unless they are prescient, then most likely they'll leave too late and have trouble on the road. For me it's not an issue. If you're in an urban area, quite honestly at best I wouldn't drive more than 60miles.

I wrote many articles on this in my sig. The worst areas are the dense NE of the USA as well as the Atlantic Seaboard, and you could literally drive a short way and run into worse issues by entering another urban one, getting lost from detours, road blocks, run out of gas, need food, water, bathrooms, etc.

[link to cache.wists.com]
Look at that map. It shows a graph of the population density. See how you'd have issues if driving across the USA?

Water is very heavy. You have to calculate how much you can take. Food is the main things. It's all but impossible to load up what you'd need and then you'd be a target.

If you run out of gas, there's no way to carry it, and a lot of people are sheep and don't have backpacks. Most likely they'd have luggage which is useless if walking or the more probably cross-country hiking.

The most likely scenario is a fake road block that appears to be police, but it's highwaymen stealing your stuff or WORSE. Remember all the sociopaths will come out of the woodwork.

Do this. Look up the state registry for sex offenders and violent offenders. Most states have them. Then type in your address and see how many live around. Unless you're very remote, my guess is between 15-100 live within 5 miles of you, maybe 2 miles. Scary no?

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 09:03 AM
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/23/2013 09:05 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
All vey well and good having such a list but in the
case of an emergency these people you have coming to
visit just might not be able to carry it all.

If you think enough of them to have them come in the first
place you should also plan on having a little extra for them as well or insist that some of their provisions are
stored at your place

It might be more sensible for them to cache their goods for later retrieval for several reasons.
 Quoting: chowan


Exactly don't store all of your eggs in one basket, a great piece of wisdom.
Maintain at least two places to have your necessities.
Then if there is a disaster natural or man made you have a back up.
Also division of duties based upon skills is a good thing to work out.
If you have a mechanic, a electrician, a butcher and a tailor working together they are going to be carrying their own tools and you don't want the electrician dressing down deer or the butcher fixing your alcohol powered four wheeler.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1018225


Yes, but cross-training is a good plan. People get sick. That's the main thing. If the healer gets sick, everyone is screwed. This means you need a backup and everyone should be able to do basic first aid.

Re the alcohol, that's a theoretical discussion. As such realize that such theoretical distillation would need to be in high proof to get good combustion, but then you need spark resistence, so brass tools, grounding, safety training, etc.

Theoretical alcohol as something like isopropal will be a very very valuable trade item for medicine.

Remember that theoretical alcohol distillation is tricky. It comes over at certain temps and if you screw up, you're getting a blend of alcohol not pure ethanol and so if someone theoretically drank that, it could cause blindness. It did in history because it formed toxic chemicals in the optic nerve.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 09:09 AM
Anonymous Coward
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01/23/2013 09:19 AM
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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
All vey well and good having such a list but in the
case of an emergency these people you have coming to
visit just might not be able to carry it all.

If you think enough of them to have them come in the first
place you should also plan on having a little extra for them as well or insist that some of their provisions are
stored at your place

It might be more sensible for them to cache their goods for later retrieval for several reasons.
 Quoting: chowan


Exactly don't store all of your eggs in one basket, a great piece of wisdom.
Maintain at least two places to have your necessities.
Then if there is a disaster natural or man made you have a back up.
Also division of duties based upon skills is a good thing to work out.
If you have a mechanic, a electrician, a butcher and a tailor working together they are going to be carrying their own tools and you don't want the electrician dressing down deer or the butcher fixing your alcohol powered four wheeler.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1018225


Yes, but cross-training is a good plan. People get sick. That's the main thing. If the healer gets sick, everyone is screwed. This means you need a backup and everyone should be able to do basic first aid.

Re the alcohol, that's a theoretical discussion. As such realize that such theoretical distillation would need to be in high proof to get good combustion, but then you need spark resistence, so brass tools, grounding, safety training, etc.

Theoretical alcohol as something like isopropal will be a very very valuable trade item for medicine.

Remember that theoretical alcohol distillation is tricky. It comes over at certain temps and if you screw up, you're getting a blend of alcohol not pure ethanol and so if someone theoretically drank that, it could cause blindness. It did in history because it formed toxic chemicals in the optic nerve.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Yes a blend of alcohol is what you should always assume you have.
Its not really that tricky to produce and if you plan ahead there are conversion kits for many engines to make them run alcohol and any back yard mechanic who has ventured into the world of late model dirt track cars can do it.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
01/23/2013 09:20 AM
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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
All vey well and good having such a list but in the
case of an emergency these people you have coming to
visit just might not be able to carry it all.

If you think enough of them to have them come in the first
place you should also plan on having a little extra for them as well or insist that some of their provisions are
stored at your place

It might be more sensible for them to cache their goods for later retrieval for several reasons.
 Quoting: chowan


Exactly don't store all of your eggs in one basket, a great piece of wisdom.
Maintain at least two places to have your necessities.
Then if there is a disaster natural or man made you have a back up.
Also division of duties based upon skills is a good thing to work out.
If you have a mechanic, a electrician, a butcher and a tailor working together they are going to be carrying their own tools and you don't want the electrician dressing down deer or the butcher fixing your alcohol powered four wheeler.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1018225


Yes, but cross-training is a good plan. People get sick. That's the main thing. If the healer gets sick, everyone is screwed. This means you need a backup and everyone should be able to do basic first aid.

Re the alcohol, that's a theoretical discussion. As such realize that such theoretical distillation would need to be in high proof to get good combustion, but then you need spark resistence, so brass tools, grounding, safety training, etc.

Theoretical alcohol as something like isopropal will be a very very valuable trade item for medicine.

Remember that theoretical alcohol distillation is tricky. It comes over at certain temps and if you screw up, you're getting a blend of alcohol not pure ethanol and so if someone theoretically drank that, it could cause blindness. It did in history because it formed toxic chemicals in the optic nerve.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Yes a blend of alcohol is what you should always assume you have.
Its not really that tricky to produce and if you plan ahead there are conversion kits for many engines to make them run alcohol and any back yard mechanic who has ventured into the world of late model dirt track cars can do it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1018225


Cross training should happen naturally with people assisting each other.
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/23/2013 09:25 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
All vey well and good having such a list but in the
case of an emergency these people you have coming to
visit just might not be able to carry it all.

If you think enough of them to have them come in the first
place you should also plan on having a little extra for them as well or insist that some of their provisions are
stored at your place

It might be more sensible for them to cache their goods for later retrieval for several reasons.
 Quoting: chowan


Exactly don't store all of your eggs in one basket, a great piece of wisdom.
Maintain at least two places to have your necessities.
Then if there is a disaster natural or man made you have a back up.
Also division of duties based upon skills is a good thing to work out.
If you have a mechanic, a electrician, a butcher and a tailor working together they are going to be carrying their own tools and you don't want the electrician dressing down deer or the butcher fixing your alcohol powered four wheeler.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1018225


Yes, but cross-training is a good plan. People get sick. That's the main thing. If the healer gets sick, everyone is screwed. This means you need a backup and everyone should be able to do basic first aid.

Re the alcohol, that's a theoretical discussion. As such realize that such theoretical distillation would need to be in high proof to get good combustion, but then you need spark resistence, so brass tools, grounding, safety training, etc.

Theoretical alcohol as something like isopropal will be a very very valuable trade item for medicine.

Remember that theoretical alcohol distillation is tricky. It comes over at certain temps and if you screw up, you're getting a blend of alcohol not pure ethanol and so if someone theoretically drank that, it could cause blindness. It did in history because it formed toxic chemicals in the optic nerve.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Yes a blend of alcohol is what you should always assume you have.
Its not really that tricky to produce and if you plan ahead there are conversion kits for many engines to make them run alcohol and any back yard mechanic who has ventured into the world of late model dirt track cars can do it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1018225

It's tricky to produce pure ethanol. I'll spell it out better.
[link to www.popsci.com]

I personally would not drink it. I would make scrupmy, or make raisin wine. Way safer.

Making alcohol for medicine or using in a combustion engine, different story. Making moonshine is a common Organic Chemistry Lab in undergraduate college courses.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 09:27 AM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1018225
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01/23/2013 09:42 AM
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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
...


Exactly don't store all of your eggs in one basket, a great piece of wisdom.
Maintain at least two places to have your necessities.
Then if there is a disaster natural or man made you have a back up.
Also division of duties based upon skills is a good thing to work out.
If you have a mechanic, a electrician, a butcher and a tailor working together they are going to be carrying their own tools and you don't want the electrician dressing down deer or the butcher fixing your alcohol powered four wheeler.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1018225


Yes, but cross-training is a good plan. People get sick. That's the main thing. If the healer gets sick, everyone is screwed. This means you need a backup and everyone should be able to do basic first aid.

Re the alcohol, that's a theoretical discussion. As such realize that such theoretical distillation would need to be in high proof to get good combustion, but then you need spark resistence, so brass tools, grounding, safety training, etc.

Theoretical alcohol as something like isopropal will be a very very valuable trade item for medicine.

Remember that theoretical alcohol distillation is tricky. It comes over at certain temps and if you screw up, you're getting a blend of alcohol not pure ethanol and so if someone theoretically drank that, it could cause blindness. It did in history because it formed toxic chemicals in the optic nerve.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Yes a blend of alcohol is what you should always assume you have.
Its not really that tricky to produce and if you plan ahead there are conversion kits for many engines to make them run alcohol and any back yard mechanic who has ventured into the world of late model dirt track cars can do it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1018225

It's tricky to produce pure ethanol. I'll spell it out better.
[link to www.popsci.com]

I personally would not drink it. I would make scrupmy, or make raisin wine. Way safer.

Making alcohol for medicine or using in a combustion engine, different story. Making moonshine is a common Organic Chemistry Lab in undergraduate college courses.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Yes pure is very difficult you will most likely have fusil oils in the mix however that wont hurt an engine.
The water is worse for an engine but even without a true reflux still using a simple pot system and running it through twice you can get descent fuel.
Abi ~

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01/23/2013 09:51 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
bump love the informative threads all of you are doing...:)
You accept the love you think you deserve~~~

Love cannot live where there is no trust~~~

Truth has no temperature~~~
Don'tBeAfraid

User ID: 32113282
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01/23/2013 09:59 AM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
...


Yes, but cross-training is a good plan. People get sick. That's the main thing. If the healer gets sick, everyone is screwed. This means you need a backup and everyone should be able to do basic first aid.

Re the alcohol, that's a theoretical discussion. As such realize that such theoretical distillation would need to be in high proof to get good combustion, but then you need spark resistence, so brass tools, grounding, safety training, etc.

Theoretical alcohol as something like isopropal will be a very very valuable trade item for medicine.

Remember that theoretical alcohol distillation is tricky. It comes over at certain temps and if you screw up, you're getting a blend of alcohol not pure ethanol and so if someone theoretically drank that, it could cause blindness. It did in history because it formed toxic chemicals in the optic nerve.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Yes a blend of alcohol is what you should always assume you have.
Its not really that tricky to produce and if you plan ahead there are conversion kits for many engines to make them run alcohol and any back yard mechanic who has ventured into the world of late model dirt track cars can do it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1018225

It's tricky to produce pure ethanol. I'll spell it out better.
[link to www.popsci.com]

I personally would not drink it. I would make scrupmy, or make raisin wine. Way safer.

Making alcohol for medicine or using in a combustion engine, different story. Making moonshine is a common Organic Chemistry Lab in undergraduate college courses.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Yes pure is very difficult you will most likely have fusil oils in the mix however that wont hurt an engine.
The water is worse for an engine but even without a true reflux still using a simple pot system and running it through twice you can get descent fuel.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1018225

I've been up for 36 hours straight so I'm punchy. There's a trick to removing water from fuel. Don't know if it works for alcohol. I know it works for gas or diesel. I'll look for it. I put it in my prepper topic in my sig, but there's 1000 posts so that would take too long to find it. It'll probably come to me once I sleep. It's vital to know, because that can happen easily in Winter and a frozen fuel line. Seems like you soak a chamois with pure alcohol (in your case) I think and then use that as a filter. Too tired to remember. So if filtering gasoline, you'd soak the chamois with pure gas to filter the water out of potentially contaminated fuel. Using all safety precautions of course.

EDIT: Yeah that's it. It's an old timer trick. Seems like I remember growing up and seeing someone do it. See:
[link to www.tractorbynet.com]

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 10:06 AM
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01/23/2013 07:26 PM
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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
insu;in dependent ? just dog food on two legs
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12056996


If you knew anything about Type 1 Diabetes, then you'd know that they lose their legs eventually from circulatory issues. Pointing out their difficulty in prepping in such a grotesque way, shows a severe lack of class, and is the sign of a cold heart.

I am healthy and don't have Diabetes, but I've spent a lot of time discussing ways a Diabetic could cope post-collapse. See my sig for details on herbs, plants to grow, and ways to preserve your insulin.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


travel the third world sometime fucko

see handicapped folks get beaten with sticks for begging in korea

see unwanted or defective babies get buried alive

see people left too starve while the soldiers eat all the plumpy nut and sell the excess on the black market

see people pan for gold in zimbabwe and get one gram which barely pays their room and board for a day

in short if my quip offends you , you ain't hard enough to make it post crash , fucking moran
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/23/2013 09:52 PM

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Re: *Prep Moochers: When People Think They're Going to Live Off "Your" Preparedness Supplies...*
insu;in dependent ? just dog food on two legs
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12056996


If you knew anything about Type 1 Diabetes, then you'd know that they lose their legs eventually from circulatory issues. Pointing out their difficulty in prepping in such a grotesque way, shows a severe lack of class, and is the sign of a cold heart.

I am healthy and don't have Diabetes, but I've spent a lot of time discussing ways a Diabetic could cope post-collapse. See my sig for details on herbs, plants to grow, and ways to preserve your insulin.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


travel the third world sometime fucko

see handicapped folks get beaten with sticks for begging in korea

see unwanted or defective babies get buried alive

see people left too starve while the soldiers eat all the plumpy nut and sell the excess on the black market

see people pan for gold in zimbabwe and get one gram which barely pays their room and board for a day

in short if my quip offends you , you ain't hard enough to make it post crash , fucking moran
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 12056996


Well back at ya. Stating the obvious helps no one. If you really care then you'd spend some minimal effort to actually help preppers with disabilities.

I am a world traveler and know all too well what happens with the breakdown in society.

I also give to support missions in many of those nations to help them not only get basic necessities as well as skills so they can support themselves.

In history, even when the SHTF, handicapped folks, amputees, blind people, all would cope and survive. They weren't doomed. Maybe they didn't live as long, but many grew a garden, still trapped, still raised animals and made it.

The real question is what hardened your heart so much that you think mocking disabled folks is helping?

Take a good long crap, and remove all that backed up garbage. It's penetrated your brain. It's definitely corrupted your heart.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/23/2013 09:53 PM

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