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Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse

 
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Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
Moscow - Russia President Vladimir Putin came under criticism from rights activists on Tuesday after he compared Vladimir Lenin's embalmed corpse to the holy relics of Christian saints.

In a speech on Monday before a group of supporters, Putin spoke against the idea of removing Lenin's mausoleum from Red Square in Moscow where his corpse is housed.

"Many say the mausoleum contradicts traditions. What contradicts traditions? Go to the Kiev Caves Monastery [in Ukraine] or look at [Russia's] Pskov monastery or Mount Athos [in Greece].

There are relics of saints there. You can see everything there," Putin said.
[link to www.news24.com]

The fate of Lenin's embalmed corpse, that since his death in 1924 lies in the Mausoleum in Red Square, has become an issue in post-communist Christian Russia and the debates on whether should be finally buried or not are still ongoing and some times heated. Whether it's going to be a Christian burial is also being discussed. Russian Orthodox Church has urged against rushed decisions on the matter in 2011, although they were favoring a burial in 2005. The Russian Orthodox Church has come up with an initiative to check the works of Lenin for extremism this year comparing it with nazism propaganda which is banned in Russia, as it justifies mass repressions against innocent people.


2011: "It is obvious that the condition of Lenin's body does not fit into Russia's cultural tradition...but we should take into account the opinions of various social groups and avoid making decisions that entail social upheavals," the chairman of the Synodal Department for Relations of the Russian Orthodox Church and Society, Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin said.
[link to en.rian.ru]

2005: A top Russian Orthodox official said Tuesday that the country's dominant church believes the body of Bolshevik leader Vladimir Lenin should be removed from display in a Red Square mausoleum and buried. Church suggested that a national referendum might be the right way to decide the fate of Lenin's body.
[link to english.pravda.ru]

Red terror: Church wants Lenin inspected for extremism
[link to rt.com]

On the other hand: Russian Orthodox organizations, and nationalist and patriotic movements have formed a joint organizing committee that will lodge petitions with courts and the Prosecutor's Office, demanding the burial of Bolshevik Revolution leader Vladimir Lenin's body, Russkiye movement head Dmitry Dyomushkin told Interfax.
[link to rbth.ru]

According to a recent survey the number of those supporting the idea of burying Lenin’s body has grown 10 percent over the past six years, reaching 56 percent. Only 28 percent of respondents said Lenin’s body should be left in the mausoleum.

Last year Culture Minister Vladimir Medinsky, a member of the ruling United Russia party, argued for burying Lenin, whom he described as “a highly controversial political figure.” “Having him as a central figure in a necropolis at the heart of our country is sheer nonsense,” Medinsky was quoted by United Russia’s press service as saying.
[link to rbth.ru]

According to a bioethics research institute that argues the rights of the dead, Lenin's body was supposed to be put on display only for 40 days, but Stalin decided to make the display permanent, Lenin himself wanted to be buried near his mother and his widow also opposed his preservation, but Stalin overruled their wishes.
[link to www.thehastingscenter.org]



I'm sure Vlad was like:'Why did i have to say that?'
putin

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 01/25/2013 08:16 AM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
it is no longer a corpse but a big ball of wax by this time
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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01/24/2013 05:46 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
it is no longer a corpse but a big ball of wax by this time
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32538141


Yep, read that it's only 10% Lenin left in there.
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01/24/2013 05:49 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
shaking the tree
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01/24/2013 05:50 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
spock

kimputincupid chavogrrr
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
and he's right

both are kind of based on doing a realy shity job in life for a stable econemy
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01/24/2013 05:52 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
I seen lenins "on display" & fuck he should be buried

he's in a coffin with a glass top

Since 1924? ffs...bury him
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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01/24/2013 05:54 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
shaking the tree
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32954173


Could be, he grew up with Lenin as a national emblem though. Maybe it's still hard for him. :)
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
spock

kimputincupid chavogrrr
 Quoting: BuggedOut


putler
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
I seen lenins "on display" & fuck he should be buried

he's in a coffin with a glass top

Since 1924? ffs...bury him
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17418121


You been there and seen it? Wouldn't wanna see it tbh.

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 01/24/2013 05:58 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
I seen lenins "on display" & fuck he should be buried

he's in a coffin with a glass top

Since 1924? ffs...bury him
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17418121


You been there and seen it?
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


Yes

moscow & leningrad (as it was)
beared
Amazing experience
Buck Zander

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01/24/2013 06:01 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
Lenin's body has been gone from the Mausoleum since at least the late seventies. There's been a wax doll on display ever since. I can't believe they're actually arguing over this crap.

That Putin reveres Lenin and the 70 years of "well behaved (read: controlled) Russians" under the Communist era is no secret. It's a catch-22 though, as that sort of conviction is the only thing keeping Russia from being pilfered sold in pieces to the Big Bank machine of the West. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
There must be a law that people can't lie.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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01/24/2013 06:04 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
I seen lenins "on display" & fuck he should be buried

he's in a coffin with a glass top

Since 1924? ffs...bury him
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17418121


You been there and seen it?
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


Yes

moscow & leningrad (as it was)
beared
Amazing experience
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 17418121


Bet it was great. hf
Haven't been to Russia yet, or any other ex-Soviet country for that matter, must be quite an experience.

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 01/24/2013 06:09 PM
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
Lenin's body has been gone from the Mausoleum since at least the late seventies. There's been a wax doll on display ever since. I can't believe they're actually arguing over this crap.

That Putin reveres Lenin and the 70 years of "well behaved (read: controlled) Russians" under the Communist era is no secret. It's a catch-22 though, as that sort of conviction is the only thing keeping Russia from being pilfered sold in pieces to the Big Bank machine of the West. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
 Quoting: Buck Zander


Yep, it's an endless argument. Good post Buck Zander.
Buck Zander

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01/24/2013 06:16 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
Lenin's body has been gone from the Mausoleum since at least the late seventies. There's been a wax doll on display ever since. I can't believe they're actually arguing over this crap.

That Putin reveres Lenin and the 70 years of "well behaved (read: controlled) Russians" under the Communist era is no secret. It's a catch-22 though, as that sort of conviction is the only thing keeping Russia from being pilfered sold in pieces to the Big Bank machine of the West. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
 Quoting: Buck Zander


Yep, it's an endless argument. Good post Buck Zander.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


TY. If you do set out for St Peterburg, try to do it around the end of June, plus or minus a month. This way you will experience the full glory of the St Peterburg White Nights. Don't stay longer than a week, though. You'll fall in love with the place and the people and... well, it gets depressing after that. lol
There must be a law that people can't lie.
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01/24/2013 06:18 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
bumpyoda
:glp sign:
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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01/24/2013 06:22 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
TY. If you do set out for St Peterburg, try to do it around the end of June, plus or minus a month. This way you will experience the full glory of the St Peterburg White Nights. Don't stay longer than a week, though. You'll fall in love with the place and the people and... well, it gets depressing after that. lol
 Quoting: Buck Zander


Great advice, as a Mediterranean guy there's only a chance of going during summer or late spring, dunno if i can stand any other season in Russia. :)
I've heard the best about St. Petersburg, definitely a must go future destination.
Buck Zander

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01/24/2013 06:31 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
Anecdote...

I think it was back in '93 that the Michael Jackson concert was scheduled to take place in Moscow, shortly after the Iron Curtain came down.

The BBC was interviewing Moscovites in Red Square to try and figure out why it was that ticket sales were well below the pace usually witnessed in other countries.

On about the fourth or fifth person to be interviewed, they happened on an weathered gentleman, probably in his fifties.

"So why do you think the seats are not selling out in a heartbeat? Do the Russian people not like this type of music?", the BBC reporter asked.

"No, no... is good muusic, very good muusic.", the weathered gentleman answered in a heavy Russian accent. "Is good muusic, but is not driiinking music."

True story

:)
There must be a law that people can't lie.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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01/24/2013 06:38 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
Anecdote...

I think it was back in '93 that the Michael Jackson concert was scheduled to take place in Moscow, shortly after the Iron Curtain came down.

The BBC was interviewing Moscovites in Red Square to try and figure out why it was that ticket sales were well below the pace usually witnessed in other countries.

On about the fourth or fifth person to be interviewed, they happened on an weathered gentleman, probably in his fifties.

"So why do you think the seats are not selling out in a heartbeat? Do the Russian people not like this type of music?", the BBC reporter asked.

"No, no... is good muusic, very good muusic.", the weathered gentleman answered in a heavy Russian accent. "Is good muusic, but is not driiinking music."

True story

:)
 Quoting: Buck Zander


lolsigndrunk


Still remember the horror stories on the news in early 90's with the combined alcohol abuse after the collapse, quite strange that i do tbh coz i was a kid, they've been through some rough times over there.
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01/24/2013 06:39 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
Toss it in a ditch!!! Now!
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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01/24/2013 06:44 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
Toss it in a ditch!!! Now!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32834975


yessir
Only Vlad remains to be convinced sir.
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01/24/2013 07:27 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
Toss it in a ditch!!! Now!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32834975


yessir
Only Vlad remains to be convinced sir.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


My be he is for the ditch as well after such a comment?

You tell me... ?
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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01/24/2013 07:42 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
My be he is for the ditch as well after such a comment?

You tell me... ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32834975


I believe that BZ made a good post above, maybe Russian leadership wants to give this time for Russian people not to be so mad with the previous regime and make a savvy decisions or not to make mad some people that still want the corpse to remain dunno tbh, maybe if a Russian sees the thread could give us a better answer to this debate. He should be buried imo, reminds me of a communist atheist church if that's even possible, let alone the suffering of millions of people.

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 01/24/2013 07:44 PM
JUST HERE

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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
My be he is for the ditch as well after such a comment?

You tell me... ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32834975


I believe that BZ made a good post above, maybe Russian leadership wants to give this time for Russian people not to be so mad with the previous regime and make a savvy decisions or not to make mad some people that still want the corpse to remain dunno tbh, maybe if a Russian sees the thread could give us a better answer to this debate. He should be buried imo, reminds me of a communist atheist church if that's even possible, let alone the suffering of millions of people.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


agree
:glp sign:
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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01/24/2013 08:06 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
My be he is for the ditch as well after such a comment?

You tell me... ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32834975


I believe that BZ made a good post above, maybe Russian leadership wants to give this time for Russian people not to be so mad with the previous regime and make a savvy decisions or not to make mad some people that still want the corpse to remain dunno tbh, maybe if a Russian sees the thread could give us a better answer to this debate. He should be buried imo, reminds me of a communist atheist church if that's even possible, let alone the suffering of millions of people.
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


agree
 Quoting: JUST HERE


cheers
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01/24/2013 08:07 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
This is all political theater

This my friends is the discussion of an assassination of someone important, hidden in plain sight

The question "Will we bury Lenin?" has sinister connotations and leads to another question, "Who does Lenin represent in todays world?"

IMO

bonghit
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01/24/2013 08:09 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
This is all political theater

This my friends is the discussion of an assassination of someone important, hidden in plain sight

The question "Will we bury Lenin?" has sinister connotations and leads to another question, "Who does Lenin represent in todays world?"

IMO

bonghit
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24117581


damned
Who?
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01/24/2013 08:32 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
damned

Who?
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


See this thread?

Thread: ****112 keeps coming up in the media******

112, thats Lenins 143rd (13x11) birthday, April 22nd

As our friend Kal Dani has pointed out, April 22nd 2013 also sees Ariel Sharon reach 31,102 days old. There are 31,102 verses in total in the KJV. That is odd when you take into consideration how old Putin, Obama and the Queen are on April 21st, the 111th day of the year

Something major is upon us

bonghit
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01/24/2013 08:37 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
damned

Who?
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


See this thread?

Thread: ****112 keeps coming up in the media******

112, thats Lenins 143rd (13x11) birthday, April 22nd

As our friend Kal Dani has pointed out, April 22nd 2013 also sees Ariel Sharon reach 31,102 days old. There are 31,102 verses in total in the KJV. That is odd when you take into consideration how old Putin, Obama and the Queen are on April 21st, the 111th day of the year

Something major is upon us

bonghit
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24117581


Thanks. cheers
I'll give it a shot although i admit that numbertarding is not my forte, but if it's doom will do. :)
Buck Zander

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01/24/2013 09:01 PM
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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
maybe... could give us a better answer to this debate
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


The older generation, a great many number of whom were driven to extreme poverty after the collapse, longs for the days of old; back when they still didn't have much, but they had something, a little dole of something, given out monthly by the state, by the old country.

To expand... shortly after Putin first came to power, everyone was essentially given a voucher for outright ownership of the flat they lived in. Many, especially in the more central areas, sold that ownership for pennies on the dollar, to the western backed new businessmen (from entrepreneurs to former directors and politicians who had hoarded money and valuables away during the great communist bribery era to former mafia and racketeers). Lots of poor, hungry mouths to feed and the quickest and surest way to get money for food was to sell what you had. Property! Now that property is worth multiples of hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands.

So, nostalgia for the old. That's one third covered.

The middle sector - the university age to late thirties - considered fleeting and not totally dependable. A considerable percentage leaves for lucrative offers, or hope, to the West. This after receiving a free education and all the while being quite vocal about own differing opinions.

The younger sector - the pre university years and younger - are being moulded to respect, revere and long for their grandparents and all that those grandparent, in turn, respect, revere and long for. Enter the Nashi movement, devised by Putin to do just that. So that makes two thirds now.

Two thirds covered, give or take. That's enough of a margin to help secure the current agenda. Rinse, repeat.

An opinion.

Last Edited by Buck Zander on 01/24/2013 09:09 PM
There must be a law that people can't lie.
insertfunnyusername (OP)

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Re: Russia: Putin Causes Uproar After Controversial Comparison Between Christian Holy Relics And Lenin's Embalmed Corpse
maybe... could give us a better answer to this debate
 Quoting: insertfunnyusername


The older generation, a great many number of whom were driven to extreme poverty after the collapse, longs for the days of old; back when they still didn't have much, but they had something, a little dole of something, given out monthly by the state, by the old country.

To expand... shortly after Putin first came to power, everyone was essentially given a voucher for outright ownership of the flat they lived in. Many, especially in the more central areas, sold that ownership for pennies on the dollar, to the western backed new businessmen (from entrepreneurs to former directors and politicians who had hoarded money and valuables away during the great communist bribery era to former mafia and racketeers). Lots of poor, hungry mouths to feed and the quickest and surest way to get money for food was to sell what you had. Property!

So, nostalgia for the old. That's one third covered.

The middle sector - the university age to late thirties - considered fleeting and not totally dependable. A considerable percentage leaves for lucrative offers, or hope, to the West. This after receiving a free education and all the while being quite vocal about own differing opinions.

The younger sector - the pre university years and younger - are being moulded to respect, revere and long for their grandparents and all that those grandparent, in turn, respect, revere and long for. Enter the Nashi movement, devised by Putin to do just that. So that makes two thirds now.

Two thirds covered, give or take. That's enough of a margin to help secure the current agenda. Rinse, repeat.

An opinion.
 Quoting: Buck Zander


A very comprehensive and great post BZ, thank you. Seems that you know a lot about Russia and the social web there.

Last Edited by insertfunnyusername on 01/24/2013 09:10 PM

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