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I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:11 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Here's a good thread, that contain several accounts, of people, encountering and seeing Jesus, when fully awake.

These are not near death experiences, or OBEs. So these aren't merely products of the person's beliefs and expectations.

Also, many of these people, were non-Christians, such as atheists, hindus, Muslims, etc, prior to the encounter. This gives even greater weight, that these experiences aren't based on the person's beliefs and expectations.

After these encounters with Jesus, if they were non-Christains, they converted to Christianity.

Thread: Jesus appears in room of a former Hindu

In addition, there's been some encounters with Jesus, that caused the people to miraculously physically heal, if they were suffering from an illness. This gives weight, that this was genuine encounter, and not a mere hallucination.

So, where's all the real and current encounters, with other prophets, from other religions? How come this is only happening with Jesus?

Also, I had mentioned the veridical NDEs. This was important since it rules out, if the NDE was based on the person's current beliefs, expectations, and knowledge. Now there's 4 current NDEs / OBEs, that contain veridical info, about the deceased. Giving evidence, that the experiences was not a hallucination. In all 4 cases, they all encountered not Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Ra, etc. But all four encountered Jesus. In addition, 2 saw, the 4 living creatures, around God's throne as described in no other book, except the Bible.

Again, one may not state, this was part of their beliefs and expectations. This is impossible, since they discovered veridical info about the deceased, information that wasn't previously known during their heaven visit, but which was later researched and verified to be actually true.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24591249


I want to point this thread is significant:
Thread: Jesus appears in room of a former Hindu

Why?

If there was rape incident, and let's say, there was only one witness who saw this. You would state, their testimony is questionable.

But,

Why if there were 50 witnesses, and they all witnessed the raped, it now becomes harder to easily dismiss their testimonies.

Now, these witnesses, not only witness the rape, but they describe a highly specific detail of the rapist, which is he wore a yellow baseball cap.

This makes it even more difficult, to merely dismiss, and say they were lying.

Now going back to the thread, there's multiple people who not only saw Jesus, during NDEs, but also when they were fully awake.

Now one must ask, where's all the testimonies, of people seeing other prophets, such as Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Ra, etc, when they were fully awake?

Also, like the witnesses, who all described a very specific detail, the yellow baseball cap, there's a highly specific detail of Jesus that they saw. In many paintings and depictions, you'll see Jesus with brown eyes. But, in nearly all cases where people saw Jesus, they stated he had blue eyes.

Also if one researches, the very best veridical heaven cases, this again, is crucial since it rules out the subconscious and imagination. Two separate individuals, stated, of all the countless paintings, and depictions, only one actually looks like him. Both stated, the exact same painting, which was done by a little girl, who states, she has visions of heaven and Jesus. And both of these people, also state, Jesus's eyes are blue.

Yes, you will have frauds like Marjo, but they don't reflect the whole.

You also have some horrible atheists, but these atheists, likewise, don't represent all atheists.

If you're a true seeker, be willing to not only seek evidence to prove, but importantly seek evidence to disprove.

Would a judge, state, all these 50 witnesses, who saw the rapist, with yellow baseball cap, are automatic liars, because they don't support my views?

Here's a tip, if you're a true seeker. Nearly all people, will either completely dismiss, or reject information without sufficient evidence. If there's not sufficient evidence to reject or accept, be willing to admit you currently don't know.

Most people, due to their egos, don't like to say, they don't know. When you're humble and willing to admit you don't know, this now allows you to seek more evidence, to support or disprove claims. Which allows you to truly learn even more.

On the other extreme, if you reject or accept info, without evidence, your search can literally last a few seconds. You can state, out of all these theories, I reject nearly all of them, on no basis whatsoever, simply because they don't fit with any of my current views. If one does this, I must also question, the motive of someone who states, they're a true seeker, and if they're only trying secretly persuade others to their own views.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24591249


I want to point out another important detail, that these people saw.

Now from what I stated, a Muslim, would say, we also believe in Jesus, so these Jesus encounters also support Islam.

But, Muslims don't believe Jesus died for our sins, was ever crucified, or even died period.

But in these encounters with Jesus, many stated, they saw his crucifixion wounds, holes on his hands.

BTW, a common rejection by Muslims, is how did we crucify God?

They make it seem like, we overpowered and killed God. But, here are important verses:

Matthew 26 51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.

52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?

54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

So here, we see Jesus could have easily prevented humans, from killing him, but he allowed it to happened.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:18 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Not only is there evidence that Sodom and Gommorah was destroyed, but there's evidence of the supernatural. The millions of large hail size brimstone / sulphur, embedded vertically downwards, cover this area.

The brimstones, were taken to be examined an analyzed at a lab. It was discovered, it's made of a content, that doesn't occur anywhere naturally in the world, or even volcanoes. Nor does it contain, elements, that are found in meteors.

Thread: Proof fire and brimstone fell on Sodom and Gomorrah!
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:21 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
the god, which god is for idiots to debate
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:31 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Not only is there evidence that Sodom and Gommorah was destroyed, but there's evidence of the supernatural. The millions of large hail size brimstone / sulphur, embedded vertically downwards, cover this area.

The brimstones, were taken to be examined an analyzed at a lab. It was discovered, it's made of a content, that doesn't occur anywhere naturally in the world, or even volcanoes. Nor does it contain, elements, that are found in meteors.

Thread: Proof fire and brimstone fell on Sodom and Gomorrah!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24591249


For even more evidence of not only the Bible, but the supernatural, I also suggest this:


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

In Exodus 15:27 and Numbers 33:9, during the travel to Mount Sinai, Moses noted, “there were twelve wells of water."

The video shows not only these 12 wells, but also Mt. Sinai, and much much more.

Exodus 19:18 Now the Bible stated, Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the LORD descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, the whole mountain trembled violently

Now at this same location with 12 wells, and Mt. Sinai, there's a massive black scorch (appears to have been left by fire), at the top of the mountain.

At this location, the Bible stated, that Moses split a massive rock, where water came forth. In the vid, at this same location, there's a massive boulder, that's been split, and you see sediments, that shows water came from the boulder. And there's much more, showing evidence of not only the Bible, but also God's supernatural works.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 09:39 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Not only is there evidence that Sodom and Gommorah was destroyed, but there's evidence of the supernatural. The millions of large hail size brimstone / sulphur, embedded vertically downwards, cover this area.

The brimstones, were taken to be examined an analyzed at a lab. It was discovered, it's made of a content, that doesn't occur anywhere naturally in the world, or even volcanoes. Nor does it contain, elements, that are found in meteors.

Thread: Proof fire and brimstone fell on Sodom and Gomorrah!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24591249


For even more evidence of not only the Bible, but the supernatural, I also suggest this:


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

In Exodus 15:27 and Numbers 33:9, during the travel to Mount Sinai, Moses noted, “there were twelve wells of water."

The video shows not only these 12 wells, but also Mt. Sinai, and much much more.

Exodus 19:18 Now the Bible stated, Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the LORD descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, the whole mountain trembled violently

Now at this same location with 12 wells, and Mt. Sinai, there's a massive black scorch (appears to have been left by fire), at the top of the mountain.

At this location, the Bible stated, that Moses split a massive rock, where water came forth. In the vid, at this same location, there's a massive boulder, that's been split, and you see sediments, that shows water came from the boulder. And there's much more, showing evidence of not only the Bible, but also God's supernatural works.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24591249


Here's even more evidence, Moses and the Israelites, had just escaped Egypt. Now in the same location as Mt. Sinai, the Bible stated, they made an alter, to worship a calf.

Now at this same location, the alter is also seen, and we see Egyptian hieroglyphics. Which shows, Hathor, a cow / calf god of the Egyptians.

What makes this even more unique, is that there's no, Egyptian hieroglyphics, in the entire country (Iran), but this location.

During the exodus, they also crossed the red sea, where God split the water. In the water, they found, chariot wheels, and horses' hooves.

At the crossing, there's also a pillar, with ancient Hebrew writing, which gave praise to God.
El Tiburon

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01/29/2013 09:42 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Atheism is a claim to absolute knowledge of the existence or rather, lack thereof, of god. No logical person would make this claim.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3342108


Atheism Rejects your Peverted fake God, DEAL WITH IT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32348185


So what perverted fake god does it accept...

Angey atheists are the worst... they are pissed that they have no faith...
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 10:31 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Because you are mortal there must be someone else.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 12:45 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Atheism is a claim to absolute knowledge of the existence or rather, lack thereof, of god. No logical person would make this claim.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3342108


Atheism Rejects your Peverted fake God, DEAL WITH IT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32348185


So what perverted fake god does it accept...

Angey atheists are the worst... they are pissed that they have no faith...
 Quoting: El Tiburon


cruise Such deductive reasoning! Boy, you god adorers are a right joke.
You might then say that we're pissed at the muslims too. We're not.

We actually don't give a flying circus of a fuck which god you choose to adore as long as it doesn't interfere with us.
Unfortunately the muslim god does, not because he gets involved but because his adherent's are a bunch of slimy, murderous and barbaric fucks.

And the christian god does too by way of his sheep. When people in authority base their actions on the 'laws' of an archaic and as yet, unproven deity then it does interfere with me.

It is this, and only this that ticks me off. I don't want to have to see a dead dude on a plank and have to explain to my six year old that it's all a barbaric myth. Kids don,t need to see that bleeding, incompetent and pallid figure hanging there.

If there were gallows poles on every block someone would have something to say.
And if I'd put them there because my imaginary spirit buddy had been hanged back in the day, I'm almost certain there'd still be an outcry against such 'devices of death and suffering' being openly displayed where children will be privy to them.

Religion...
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/29/2013 03:20 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Atheism is a claim to absolute knowledge of the existence or rather, lack thereof, of god. No logical person would make this claim.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3342108


Atheism Rejects your Peverted fake God, DEAL WITH IT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32348185


So what perverted fake god does it accept...

Angey atheists are the worst... they are pissed that they have no faith...
 Quoting: El Tiburon


cruise Such deductive reasoning! Boy, you god adorers are a right joke.
You might then say that we're pissed at the muslims too. We're not.

We actually don't give a flying circus of a fuck which god you choose to adore as long as it doesn't interfere with us.
Unfortunately the muslim god does, not because he gets involved but because his adherent's are a bunch of slimy, murderous and barbaric fucks.

And the christian god does too by way of his sheep. When people in authority base their actions on the 'laws' of an archaic and as yet, unproven deity then it does interfere with me.

It is this, and only this that ticks me off. I don't want to have to see a dead dude on a plank and have to explain to my six year old that it's all a barbaric myth. Kids don,t need to see that bleeding, incompetent and pallid figure hanging there.

If there were gallows poles on every block someone would have something to say.
And if I'd put them there because my imaginary spirit buddy had been hanged back in the day, I'm almost certain there'd still be an outcry against such 'devices of death and suffering' being openly displayed where children will be privy to them.

Religion...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33263447


could wear an iron maiden around your neck in protest ha ha
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/29/2013 03:23 PM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
...


Atheism Rejects your Peverted fake God, DEAL WITH IT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32348185


So what perverted fake god does it accept...

Angey atheists are the worst... they are pissed that they have no faith...
 Quoting: El Tiburon


cruise Such deductive reasoning! Boy, you god adorers are a right joke.
You might then say that we're pissed at the muslims too. We're not.

We actually don't give a flying circus of a fuck which god you choose to adore as long as it doesn't interfere with us.
Unfortunately the muslim god does, not because he gets involved but because his adherent's are a bunch of slimy, murderous and barbaric fucks.

And the christian god does too by way of his sheep. When people in authority base their actions on the 'laws' of an archaic and as yet, unproven deity then it does interfere with me.

It is this, and only this that ticks me off. I don't want to have to see a dead dude on a plank and have to explain to my six year old that it's all a barbaric myth. Kids don,t need to see that bleeding, incompetent and pallid figure hanging there.

If there were gallows poles on every block someone would have something to say.
And if I'd put them there because my imaginary spirit buddy had been hanged back in the day, I'm almost certain there'd still be an outcry against such 'devices of death and suffering' being openly displayed where children will be privy to them.

Religion...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33263447


could wear an iron maiden around your neck in protest ha ha
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855

You obviously don't know what an iron maiden is. It was a torture device that a person was put inside of.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/29/2013 03:31 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
...


So what perverted fake god does it accept...

Angey atheists are the worst... they are pissed that they have no faith...
 Quoting: El Tiburon


cruise Such deductive reasoning! Boy, you god adorers are a right joke.
You might then say that we're pissed at the muslims too. We're not.

We actually don't give a flying circus of a fuck which god you choose to adore as long as it doesn't interfere with us.
Unfortunately the muslim god does, not because he gets involved but because his adherent's are a bunch of slimy, murderous and barbaric fucks.

And the christian god does too by way of his sheep. When people in authority base their actions on the 'laws' of an archaic and as yet, unproven deity then it does interfere with me.

It is this, and only this that ticks me off. I don't want to have to see a dead dude on a plank and have to explain to my six year old that it's all a barbaric myth. Kids don,t need to see that bleeding, incompetent and pallid figure hanging there.

If there were gallows poles on every block someone would have something to say.
And if I'd put them there because my imaginary spirit buddy had been hanged back in the day, I'm almost certain there'd still be an outcry against such 'devices of death and suffering' being openly displayed where children will be privy to them.

Religion...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33263447


could wear an iron maiden around your neck in protest ha ha
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855

You obviously don't know what an iron maiden is. It was a torture device that a person was put inside of.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Hmmm... so how many times do you see giant crosses big enough to crucify someone hanging from someones neckless?
I know what an iron maiden is. I was thinking on a smaller scale, like christians do with a cross.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 03:35 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
One day an atheist decided to take a short cut in the woods going home. It was a very pretty day; birds were singing and flying, the brook was burbling, and wild flowers were everywhere. Just then he saw the bushes move. It was a bear. He ran as fast as he could and faster still. Then he
tripped and fell on a log. By then the bear was right over him about to strike. The atheist yelled out"Oh my God." Just then the birds froze, suspended in mid-air, the brook stopped burbling, and it got quiet. Then God showed up and said "Tell me, why should I save you? You teach people to not believe in Me." Then the atheist yelled out "well, at least make the bear a christian." Then God said "Oh, all right." Then the birds were flying again and the brook was burbling. The bear was about to strike then stopped, stood up on his hinds, bowed his head and said "Lord, I thank Thee for this food
I'm about to eat."
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/29/2013 03:36 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Let me just state something again. I don't have a problem with christians, just individuals based on their actions like I would anyone else. I meant no offence in my reply, even when I still believe I found the idea of a torture device as a symbol funny.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/29/2013 03:38 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
One day an atheist decided to take a short cut in the woods going home. It was a very pretty day; birds were singing and flying, the brook was burbling, and wild flowers were everywhere. Just then he saw the bushes move. It was a bear. He ran as fast as he could and faster still. Then he
tripped and fell on a log. By then the bear was right over him about to strike. The atheist yelled out"Oh my God." Just then the birds froze, suspended in mid-air, the brook stopped burbling, and it got quiet. Then God showed up and said "Tell me, why should I save you? You teach people to not believe in Me." Then the atheist yelled out "well, at least make the bear a christian." Then God said "Oh, all right." Then the birds were flying again and the brook was burbling. The bear was about to strike then stopped, stood up on his hinds, bowed his head and said "Lord, I thank Thee for this food
I'm about to eat."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23554071


Ha ha, I like that one.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 03:39 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Something interesting about the cross.

Exorcists, found if it's a legit possession.

Have the possessed sitting in a chair, even blindfolded if you like.

Then come from behind them, and put a cross near the back of their neck, but never touching. And of course never knowing, what the cross is behind them.

If it's a legit possession, the person will react violently.
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/29/2013 03:44 PM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Let me just state something again. I don't have a problem with christians, just individuals based on their actions like I would anyone else. I meant no offence in my reply, even when I still believe I found the idea of a torture device as a symbol funny.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


There is nothing humorous about torture.
[link to markmoore.org]
"Vital Stats and Facts about Persecution of Christians
1.163,000 Christians die every year for their faith. Half of all the Christians who have ever died for their faith did so in this century alone, some 35 million! 15,000,000 of
these were Orthodox or Catholic Christians who died under the Soviet regime between 1917 and 1980, primarily in prison camps.
2.Persecution tends to rise with evangelistic effectiveness.
3.The top ten persecuting countries are
: Burma/Myanmar, China, Egypt, Iran, Laos,
North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia,
Sudan(2 million since 1985), Vietnam.
4.After fierce lobbying, American legislators agreed to levy punishments ranging from diplomatic protests to economic sanctions against cou ntries that persistently persecute Christians and other religious minorities.
5.Those killed for their faith (by millions): Christians, 70; Muslims, 70; Hindus; 11,Jews, 9; Buddhists, 4; Sikhs, 2; Baha’is, 1 and all others com bined, 5; T otal = 169 (the
numbers don’t add up because of rounding up to millions).
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/29/2013 04:11 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Let me just state something again. I don't have a problem with christians, just individuals based on their actions like I would anyone else. I meant no offence in my reply, even when I still believe I found the idea of a torture device as a symbol funny.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


There is nothing humorous about torture.
[link to markmoore.org]
"Vital Stats and Facts about Persecution of Christians
1.163,000 Christians die every year for their faith. Half of all the Christians who have ever died for their faith did so in this century alone, some 35 million! 15,000,000 of
these were Orthodox or Catholic Christians who died under the Soviet regime between 1917 and 1980, primarily in prison camps.
2.Persecution tends to rise with evangelistic effectiveness.
3.The top ten persecuting countries are
: Burma/Myanmar, China, Egypt, Iran, Laos,
North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia,
Sudan(2 million since 1985), Vietnam.
4.After fierce lobbying, American legislators agreed to levy punishments ranging from diplomatic protests to economic sanctions against cou ntries that persistently persecute Christians and other religious minorities.
5.Those killed for their faith (by millions): Christians, 70; Muslims, 70; Hindus; 11,Jews, 9; Buddhists, 4; Sikhs, 2; Baha’is, 1 and all others com bined, 5; T otal = 169 (the
numbers don’t add up because of rounding up to millions).
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


That is a harsh reality that anyone should have sympathy with. Certainly nothing that I'd find funny. I knew the stats were high, but higher than I remembered.
I used to find it funny that we used the cross as a symbol for the Messiah, when actually it was the plan of the enemy.
And not funny in a ha ha way. Weird. I never wore a cross, but good on thoughs that do.

Off topic, did Jesus/ Yeshua/ Yehoshua/ Yehushuwa break the sabbath?
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/29/2013 04:32 PM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Let me just state something again. I don't have a problem with christians, just individuals based on their actions like I would anyone else. I meant no offence in my reply, even when I still believe I found the idea of a torture device as a symbol funny.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


There is nothing humorous about torture.
[link to markmoore.org]
"Vital Stats and Facts about Persecution of Christians
1.163,000 Christians die every year for their faith. Half of all the Christians who have ever died for their faith did so in this century alone, some 35 million! 15,000,000 of
these were Orthodox or Catholic Christians who died under the Soviet regime between 1917 and 1980, primarily in prison camps.
2.Persecution tends to rise with evangelistic effectiveness.
3.The top ten persecuting countries are
: Burma/Myanmar, China, Egypt, Iran, Laos,
North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia,
Sudan(2 million since 1985), Vietnam.
4.After fierce lobbying, American legislators agreed to levy punishments ranging from diplomatic protests to economic sanctions against cou ntries that persistently persecute Christians and other religious minorities.
5.Those killed for their faith (by millions): Christians, 70; Muslims, 70; Hindus; 11,Jews, 9; Buddhists, 4; Sikhs, 2; Baha’is, 1 and all others com bined, 5; T otal = 169 (the
numbers don’t add up because of rounding up to millions).
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


That is a harsh reality that anyone should have sympathy with. Certainly nothing that I'd find funny. I knew the stats were high, but higher than I remembered.
I used to find it funny that we used the cross as a symbol for the Messiah, when actually it was the plan of the enemy.
And not funny in a ha ha way. Weird. I never wore a cross, but good on thoughs that do.

Off topic, did Jesus/ Yeshua/ Yehoshua/ Yehushuwa break the sabbath?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855

Of course wearing a cross, especially a crucifix was considered abhorrant by Protestants, for they felt that it emphasized death and not ressurection. Personally I like both, for they remind me of Yeshua sacrfice for my sins. I don't focus on the crucifiction, for Yeshua is not eternally on the cross, but was victorious over the cross.

A lot of people use guilt to induce belief and of course that won't work. It's a bad form of witness and persuasion.

The real heart of Yeshua's message is about feeding the hungry, healing the sick, caring for the poor, ministering to those in prison, however those thing manifest. It's not about conversion. If Christians spent 90% of their time on those things and only 10% on the other, then what a beautiful world it would be.

Yeshua said that the Sabbath was made for Man. Now this is confusing, but the new day begins at sundown, not sunrise.
Remember in Genesis, "There was evening, there was morning, a new day."

People would rush to get all of their work done so they could rest to begin the new Sabbath. This meant there were all kinds of rules and more rules about what you could do on the Sabbath.

Then the Pharisees, being the educated priests, they'd spent all that time meditating upon Law. But the issue was there was already 631 laws. They were making it more difficult for Man. They heaped up burdens like, if a cow got lost, then the owner couldn't go rescue it, and then the loss of a cow or goat would surely severely hurt the finances of that family as well as be terribly cruel. Or even healing wasn't allowed. Or last minute gathering of grain.

Most Christians worship on Sunday morning, but a devout Jew will celebrate Friday evening. Which is the Sabbath? Does it matter? I don't know. I know we need to keep it holy. What if a doctor works on Sunday morning? Is she breaking the Sabbath? Hardly. Is the preacher working on Sunday breaking the Sabbath?

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/29/2013 04:35 PM
Gooney (OP)

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01/29/2013 04:57 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Let me just state something again. I don't have a problem with christians, just individuals based on their actions like I would anyone else. I meant no offence in my reply, even when I still believe I found the idea of a torture device as a symbol funny.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


There is nothing humorous about torture.
[link to markmoore.org]
"Vital Stats and Facts about Persecution of Christians
1.163,000 Christians die every year for their faith. Half of all the Christians who have ever died for their faith did so in this century alone, some 35 million! 15,000,000 of
these were Orthodox or Catholic Christians who died under the Soviet regime between 1917 and 1980, primarily in prison camps.
2.Persecution tends to rise with evangelistic effectiveness.
3.The top ten persecuting countries are
: Burma/Myanmar, China, Egypt, Iran, Laos,
North Korea, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia,
Sudan(2 million since 1985), Vietnam.
4.After fierce lobbying, American legislators agreed to levy punishments ranging from diplomatic protests to economic sanctions against cou ntries that persistently persecute Christians and other religious minorities.
5.Those killed for their faith (by millions): Christians, 70; Muslims, 70; Hindus; 11,Jews, 9; Buddhists, 4; Sikhs, 2; Baha’is, 1 and all others com bined, 5; T otal = 169 (the
numbers don’t add up because of rounding up to millions).
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


That is a harsh reality that anyone should have sympathy with. Certainly nothing that I'd find funny. I knew the stats were high, but higher than I remembered.
I used to find it funny that we used the cross as a symbol for the Messiah, when actually it was the plan of the enemy.
And not funny in a ha ha way. Weird. I never wore a cross, but good on thoughs that do.

Off topic, did Jesus/ Yeshua/ Yehoshua/ Yehushuwa break the sabbath?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855

Of course wearing a cross, especially a crucifix was considered abhorrant by Protestants, for they felt that it emphasized death and not ressurection. Personally I like both, for they remind me of Yeshua sacrfice for my sins. I don't focus on the crucifiction, for Yeshua is not eternally on the cross, but was victorious over the cross.

A lot of people use guilt to induce belief and of course that won't work. It's a bad form of witness and persuasion.

The real heart of Yeshua's message is about feeding the hungry, healing the sick, caring for the poor, ministering to those in prison, however those thing manifest. It's not about conversion. If Christians spent 90% of their time on those things and only 10% on the other, then what a beautiful world it would be.

Yeshua said that the Sabbath was made for Man. Now this is confusing, but the new day begins at sundown, not sunrise.
Remember in Genesis, "There was evening, there was morning, a new day."

People would rush to get all of their work done so they could rest to begin the new Sabbath. This meant there were all kinds of rules and more rules about what you could do on the Sabbath.

Then the Pharisees, being the educated priests, they'd spent all that time meditating upon Law. But the issue was there was already 631 laws. They were making it more difficult for Man. They heaped up burdens like, if a cow got lost, then the owner couldn't go rescue it, and then the loss of a cow or goat would surely severely hurt the finances of that family as well as be terribly cruel. Or even healing wasn't allowed. Or last minute gathering of grain.

Most Christians worship on Sunday morning, but a devout Jew will celebrate Friday evening. Which is the Sabbath? Does it matter? I don't know. I know we need to keep it holy. What if a doctor works on Sunday morning? Is she breaking the Sabbath? Hardly. Is the preacher working on Sunday breaking the Sabbath?
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Ok, I respect your view on the cross and already understand that view. But why take that or the fish, they already had the menorah, even that is questionable as to whether they would of used that.

Your exactly right, it was the early version of Tulmud before it was compiled. That is what Yeshua was getting rid of, not the 316 Torah. He even says thoughs that don't follow or teach the least of them would be the least in heaven. Yeshua was Torah observant, so was his followers. Paul taught against that, although there is a translation that tries to redeem him and is convincing to a degree, but not enough for me. The AENT translation.
Honesty makes a world of difference in a world where lies are prevalent.

:bsflag:
May I be the first? (GLP humour)
Gooney (OP)

User ID: 32076855
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01/29/2013 05:42 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
The sabbath is to be followed the same as the Torah commanded. Yeshua eplains in more detail on it.
So certain conditions are fine. But why do people now forget the sabbath? Even though it's in the ten commandments and in fact was there before that in genesis.
Why was it decided that the sabbath be changed to sunday against gods command? Who decided it should change maybe a more important question.
Honesty makes a world of difference in a world where lies are prevalent.

:bsflag:
May I be the first? (GLP humour)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 554623
United States
01/29/2013 05:59 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


Start studying bible prophecy with the intent of disproving it.

You'll end up becoming a believer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32979804


I have read up on prophecies. Is there one in particular that I should look up?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


I think you should read these:
[link to www.thewarningsecondcoming.com]

[link to www.medjugorje.com]
Gooney (OP)

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01/29/2013 06:10 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


Start studying bible prophecy with the intent of disproving it.

You'll end up becoming a believer.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32979804


I have read up on prophecies. Is there one in particular that I should look up?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


I think you should read these:
[link to www.thewarningsecondcoming.com]

[link to www.medjugorje.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 554623


Sorry, but the links don't do a thing for me. The first is supposedly Jesus and the second Mary. No one following christianity should pretend to speak as if they are Jesus.
Why Mary, she was never that significant other than being a physical mother.
Honesty makes a world of difference in a world where lies are prevalent.

:bsflag:
May I be the first? (GLP humour)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/29/2013 06:38 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
The sabbath is to be followed the same as the Torah commanded. Yeshua eplains in more detail on it.
So certain conditions are fine. But why do people now forget the sabbath? Even though it's in the ten commandments and in fact was there before that in genesis.
Why was it decided that the sabbath be changed to sunday against gods command? Who decided it should change maybe a more important question.
 Quoting: Gooney


Oh and even on a Sunday people break the Torah constantly regarding the sabbath. Why does it not effect their conscience if morality comes from god?
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2013 10:56 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
The sabbath is to be followed the same as the Torah commanded. Yeshua eplains in more detail on it.
So certain conditions are fine. But why do people now forget the sabbath? Even though it's in the ten commandments and in fact was there before that in genesis.
Why was it decided that the sabbath be changed to sunday against gods command? Who decided it should change maybe a more important question.
 Quoting: Gooney


If you feel strongly about keeping the Sabbath, I would say don't worry about what others do, if they keep that day holy or not, but you personally make that time holy for God.
Gooney (OP)

User ID: 32076855
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01/30/2013 01:00 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
The sabbath is to be followed the same as the Torah commanded. Yeshua eplains in more detail on it.
So certain conditions are fine. But why do people now forget the sabbath? Even though it's in the ten commandments and in fact was there before that in genesis.
Why was it decided that the sabbath be changed to sunday against gods command? Who decided it should change maybe a more important question.
 Quoting: Gooney


If you feel strongly about keeping the Sabbath, I would say don't worry about what others do, if they keep that day holy or not, but you personally make that time holy for God.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 24591249


I did when I believed and found it to be what the bible actually taught.
Honesty makes a world of difference in a world where lies are prevalent.

:bsflag:
May I be the first? (GLP humour)
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 01:12 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


What's the meaning of your life?
What do you see when you are looking in a mirror? Is that you? Then who's seeing you?
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 01:17 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
god is simply the soul inside you

religion is simply observing the laws of balance

see phoenix journal 27
Anonymous Coward
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01/30/2013 01:28 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Do any of you ask yourselves why we even debate the existence of a Creator? The fact that this is a question on our minds begs the question of "why we desire to know the answer to this question". Where there exists a desire there first existed a need. A purely materialistic naturalistic existence would never spawn the desire to ask the question "who or what created us" and "what is our purpose"? We ask these questions because we are meant to seek the answers. In essence, our question about "who created us" helps to prove the existence of a Creator.
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/30/2013 03:07 PM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Do any of you ask yourselves why we even debate the existence of a Creator? The fact that this is a question on our minds begs the question of "why we desire to know the answer to this question". Where there exists a desire there first existed a need. A purely materialistic naturalistic existence would never spawn the desire to ask the question "who or what created us" and "what is our purpose"? We ask these questions because we are meant to seek the answers. In essence, our question about "who created us" helps to prove the existence of a Creator.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


Thank goodness! The philosopher is back! Logic and reason have re-entered the discussion. Quite correct! Posing the question, is much like Descartes "I think therefore I am".

A neuroscientist might say though that the reason we ask is the pineal glad produces biochemicals.

The inner desire to posit the Prime Mover, the original force that set the Universe in motion, makes us think of God. If so, is that the basis for wondering about a relationship with such a being, and hence how spiritual systems happen?

This is so much better than the blather being discussed most of the time here.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/30/2013 03:11 PM
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/30/2013 03:38 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Do any of you ask yourselves why we even debate the existence of a Creator? The fact that this is a question on our minds begs the question of "why we desire to know the answer to this question". Where there exists a desire there first existed a need. A purely materialistic naturalistic existence would never spawn the desire to ask the question "who or what created us" and "what is our purpose"? We ask these questions because we are meant to seek the answers. In essence, our question about "who created us" helps to prove the existence of a Creator.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


It was a question for me because I was brought up with christianity. It was important because I feared hell. But otherwise, with the knowledge we have, it most probably would never entered my mind if I had not heard about any god.
Some would say "god of the gaps". God fills in the unanswered questions. Like where did we come from. It's not hard to imagine that people would ask that, or that the concept of a god or gods would come about. Humans are evolved enough to be intelligent, and perhaps through being social creatures developed language. The more they shared ideas the more the population knew until they could share concepts about their origins as well as tools.

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