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I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

 
moon
User ID: 15717488
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01/25/2013 09:53 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
How do I explain to you that there is a God in brief yet do the topic justice?

God has given many Scriptures to man but you have to decide which one has no mistakes in it and which one has not even one contradiction in it.

The origin of the Hindu Scriptures around 4000 years ago, no one knows who the Scriptures were revealed to. But these were only revealed to Hindus only.

The Torah, Jew Scriptures, revealed to Moses was only meant for the Jews. As it says in the Bible by Jesus 'I have but come for the lost sheep of Israel'.

The Gospel revealed to Jesus is not in its original form as it was revealed. It has 100s of errors in it.

- Acts 2 22: states that Jesus is a man and not God.
- Luke 24 37: states that Jesus did not die on cross
- 1st Epistle of John 5 7 states by the Revised Standard Version that Holy Spirit is nothing but a concoction and fabrication. If the Holy Spirit did exist then what was its message as meant to have said by Jesus? That other to come as said by Jesus was in fact Prophet Muhammed.

Lastly, the Quran is the the Final Testament for the whole of humankind and not just for Arabs! This Final Scripture has no errors or contradictions whatsoever. Infact it states versus of the Big Bang, Water Cycle, Embryology, etc 1400 years ago. Scientists only finding out today what the Quran mention 1400 years ago.

In fact, all Messengers and Prophets came with the same Message - that there is only One God.

All the above Scriptures were revealed by the same God but in different stages to man. But its only the Glorious Quran that says its for the whole of humankind!


Finally only read for what you are researching - as peoples opinions can be wrong and distorted from the truth.

Goodluck!!
 Quoting: moon 15717488


Thank you, but can you give scripture that isn't vague.
And clearly proves God?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


The Glorious Quran has no errors or mistakes. Read it.
 Quoting: moon 15717488


Any book can have no mistakes, but it doesn't prove a god. If I knew there was a god, then it would at least be more believable. Exept I don't understand the muslim view of the bible, or Tanak.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


God sent the Bible, the Tanak, Hindu Scriptures for their people for a set time only.

Only the Glorious Quran states that it is for eternity and for the whole of humankind. The Quran is the final revelation from God.

Another way of looking at it is that Darwin's theory of evolution is just a ........ THEORY. It is not Fact of evolution!
niphtrique

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01/25/2013 09:55 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


In Genesis 1:26 God suggests that we live in a simulation of a real world with the words: "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness." On Simulation-argument.com Professor Nick Bostrom argues that at least one of the following must be true:
- The human species is very likely to go extinct before reaching a posthuman stage.
- Any posthuman civilisation is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof).
- We are almost certainly living in a computer simulation.

The assumption that we live in a non-material virtual reality owned by a deity can be supported with the following findings:
- Technology like the holodeck appears to be feasible less than a century from now, while humans are inclined make virtual realities with simulations of humans. Billions of virtual realities like this universe may exist, so it is unlikely that this universe is real.
- Even though there have been thousands of gods and goddesses worshipped in the past, none of them presented himself or herself, except one.
- It is unlikely that by pure chance a religion of a small and often dispersed people survived for more than 1,500 years and then became the basis for three major world religions, while it has been foretold to Abraham that all the peoples will be blessed in him (Gen. 18:17-18).
- The existence of synchronicity and coincidences indicates that there is a script behind all events.
- Only in a non-material virtual reality supernatural and paranormal events are possible.
- Only in a non-material virtual reality miracles are possible.

Based on the argument above, it is likely that the universe is a virtual reality. There have been billions of years in which humanity could have become an advanced civilisation that is able to build virtual realities, so the likelihood of humanity entering this phase in this specific timeframe is small compared to any timeframe in the past.

The Universe As a Virtual Reality, see:
[link to www.naturalmoney.org]

The odds are strongly in favour of this universe being a virtual reality and God playing roles in it using an avatar.

Last Edited by niphtrique on 01/25/2013 09:59 AM
The Plan for the Future: [link to www.naturalmoney.org]
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 09:56 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
If I had more time, I'd get into some of these. Maybe later. For now, you should do a little research on these and we can discuss. These are more philosophical arguments developed through the years and popularized more recently by people like Dr. William L. Craig.

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument


The Moral Argument
1.If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.

2.Objective moral values and duties do exist.

3.Therefore, God exists.


The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning


The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God’s Existence to His Actuality
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 09:56 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
...


First ask yourself what you believe in ..?

Why do believe what yo do?

How do you know what you believe in is true...

You should start out reading the Book of JOB in the BIBLE

Realize you worship GOD in spirit

Realize that the fear of GOD is the beginning of wisdom.

The Fear that you realize is the fear of being seep rated from him.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6038128


Welcome to brainwashing 101
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


The BRAINWASH comes from what is spoon fed to you from the world.....

That is why we live in -a sick, world that has always needed a healer, and millions of people have been healed by him...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6038128


Honestly, the people who have been spoon fed are the ones who get sucked into religion. For most, however, it's not really their fault. Religion is generally passed down from generation to generation and it's what people grow up with. They, in turn, pass it down...and so forth and so on.

I don't believe people have been healed by "him." I see it more as a religious placebo effect. Never underestimate the power of thought.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


your so wrong....

GOD is not a Religion...

GOD is a Creator his Laws in the Universe and on earth were ordained by himself in the heavens....

Religion might be passed down but Faith is not...
religion does not hold you to a life of repentance, faith, righteousness and
Change of heart...Sincere faith does.....

That is why you see so many people identify with an organized faith living a life of total un-righteousness....

The Church is not a religion, it is a people both Jew and Gentile united together in one true faith of Jesus Christ.....

You don't understand because you are not of the church...
If you don,t think millions of people over the last 2000 years have been healed by faith in Christ and still our daily, you truly live in a isolated world.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 09:59 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Study them all if you want to know which one or the why. Only you and the insight you gain can discover which God, or no God and why you reach that decision.

You have all the tools you need to find your own truths in this life. Expand your mind and discover your own answers to the questions you seek.
 Quoting: WeAreOne


Idon't want my truth, I want the truth. I don't want a delusion that keeps me content. Just truth.
how do I know there is a god?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


btw, I admire your approach. You seem to understand that "my truth" is an illusion and "The Truth" must be an absolute for all people everywhere. Law of non-contradiction demands such.
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/25/2013 10:00 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
If I had more time, I'd get into some of these. Maybe later. For now, you should do a little research on these and we can discuss. These are more philosophical arguments developed through the years and popularized more recently by people like Dr. William L. Craig.

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument


The Moral Argument
1.If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.

2.Objective moral values and duties do exist.

3.Therefore, God exists.


The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning


The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God’s Existence to His Actuality
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


Yeah, this is good and what the OP should be doing if being truthful, but I doubt his seriousness. That's heavy reading and a single page can require 30 minutes or more to really study (more like hours of contemplation). I suggested something similar from St. Anselm to Aquinas and Augustine as well as the major thinkers. Then having read those, there are numerous spinoffs like Kant, Kierkegard, the post-moderns, the Christian and Jewish existentialists, and criticsms of all of them too.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 10:01 AM
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 10:00 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Atheism is a claim to absolute knowledge of the existence or rather, lack thereof, of god. No logical person would make this claim.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3342108


Atheism Rejects your Peverted fake God, DEAL WITH IT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32348185


An atheist wouldn't even go so far to state that claim. Specifically identifying a god to reject sort of implies others may not be rejected. To someone not familiar with the term or concept of atheism, they might conclude atheism deals only with the god the statement is directed towards.
Anti Vortex

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01/25/2013 10:02 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I don't see my shoe shrine yet.
What's the hold up?
 Quoting: Anti Vortex


I was waiting for divine instructions on the dimentions of your shoe shrine.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


Hmmm, not sure if I should go the Buddhist route and have it be a personal shrine that you can afford or if I should get some gold decked Vatican sized thing.
This being god is hard work. I quit.
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/25/2013 10:04 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
To be honest, if you're looking to answer this question, then you're beginning in the wrong place. That question is very complex. You might want to begin with the nature of good and evil. See:
Thread: Do you doubt that evil exists?

Because if there isn't good and evil, then the belief in a "god" makes no difference. Likewise, if there's no law or Free Will, then the belief in a "god" makes no difference. Start with something easier.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 11:16 AM
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 10:05 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
...


But you are comparing love, a natural human emotion with more evidence than just circumstancial as you say, with a supreme deity. That, does not make sense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


Well first, you asked for rational ways, so I provided a philosophical look (Metaphysics) at the existance of a supreme being. Before you discount anything, there's about 100 pages of logical reading, so I know you have read it yet.

Second, while not all spiritual systems were relational, most were. Certainly monotheism is. The realtionship of YHWH is one based upon Love, and hence relevent.

In YHWH there are two main principles. 1) God is the basis for Being or Existance. 2) God is the personification of Love. As such, you can't remove the Love element.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


I believe that love is a natural human emotion that's being wrongfully exploited by basically suggesting that without god, there would be no love.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


I don't think you're serious, just having some fun with Christians or other spiritual systems. If you're serious as you claim, then you'd spend some time actually reading the logical arguments that you asked for. Since you have not, then I doubt your intentions.

I also think that you've had no training in philosophy or debate, for you are not answering questions in any logical way, only making some subjective observations, which you also are not proving by the way. You haven't built any logical statements, provided evidence of their veracity, or came to a conclusion as a result of reason and logic.

But since you may be young, I'll indulge you. You said, "I believe that love is a natural human emotion that's being wrongfully exploited by basically suggesting that without god, there would be no love."

Prove why that is so.

You should know that you cannot prove a negative, at least near impossible for a beginner in debate. It's a logical fallacy. It's called Evidence of Absence.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

That statement is impossible to prove. Your statement is also false, for I never made that claim.

To prove that the absence of X will result in the absence of Y is very difficult.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


First, I never asked for anything. Second, just because I have a different view, which, by the way, is a view that I have developed long ago, you resort by saying I'm "young" and I've "had no training in debate and philosophy" etc., which is fairly typical from a believer who is usually stumped by a rational, logical thinking atheist.

Also, the burden of proof rests squarely on the shoulders of those who claim the existence of a supreme deity.
Manu-Koelbren

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01/25/2013 10:07 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Study them all if you want to know which one or the why. Only you and the insight you gain can discover which God, or no God and why you reach that decision.

You have all the tools you need to find your own truths in this life. Expand your mind and discover your own answers to the questions you seek.
 Quoting: WeAreOne


Idon't want my truth, I want the truth. I don't want a delusion that keeps me content. Just truth.
how do I know there is a god?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


btw, I admire your approach. You seem to understand that "my truth" is an illusion and "The Truth" must be an absolute for all people everywhere. Law of non-contradiction demands such.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


finding the truth is a gradual effort and impatience leads to ending the efforts and replacing truth with myth for pacifying of the human fears.
"White privilege" is the liberal religion's version of Original Sin: you are born guilty, and you carry that burden of guilt all your life, and the only way to escape eternal damnation is for white people confess their sin, to bow, kneel and believe the dogma of the Church of Liberalism, genuflect at its altars, honor its saints, fill the collection plate, and never, ever doubt.

-- Dixon Diaz
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/25/2013 10:09 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
...


Well first, you asked for rational ways, so I provided a philosophical look (Metaphysics) at the existance of a supreme being. Before you discount anything, there's about 100 pages of logical reading, so I know you have read it yet.

Second, while not all spiritual systems were relational, most were. Certainly monotheism is. The realtionship of YHWH is one based upon Love, and hence relevent.

In YHWH there are two main principles. 1) God is the basis for Being or Existance. 2) God is the personification of Love. As such, you can't remove the Love element.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


I believe that love is a natural human emotion that's being wrongfully exploited by basically suggesting that without god, there would be no love.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


I don't think you're serious, just having some fun with Christians or other spiritual systems. If you're serious as you claim, then you'd spend some time actually reading the logical arguments that you asked for. Since you have not, then I doubt your intentions.

I also think that you've had no training in philosophy or debate, for you are not answering questions in any logical way, only making some subjective observations, which you also are not proving by the way. You haven't built any logical statements, provided evidence of their veracity, or came to a conclusion as a result of reason and logic.

But since you may be young, I'll indulge you. You said, "I believe that love is a natural human emotion that's being wrongfully exploited by basically suggesting that without god, there would be no love."

Prove why that is so.

You should know that you cannot prove a negative, at least near impossible for a beginner in debate. It's a logical fallacy. It's called Evidence of Absence.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

That statement is impossible to prove. Your statement is also false, for I never made that claim.

To prove that the absence of X will result in the absence of Y is very difficult.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


First, I never asked for anything. Second, just because I have a different view, which, by the way, is a view that I have developed long ago, you resort by saying I'm "young" and I've "had no training in debate and philosophy" etc., which is fairly typical from a believer who is usually stumped by a rational, logical thinking atheist.

Also, the burden of proof rests squarely on the shoulders of those who claim the existence of a supreme deity.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


Oh no, my friend. I'm stating logically that you haven't done 50% of the work in the debate. You're not challenging my assertions in a logical way, and yet you chose to believe that you're logical. When was the last class you had in Logic, Debate, or Philosophy, because I'm not seeing any evidence of it in your post?

And to the contrary, I enjoy being asked and am not in the remotest challenged, but I'm up for it.

No, the burden of proof is not on the believer. Do you know the meaning of dialectic? I hope you look it up so we can go through that process.

Saying, "Prove it." is not a debate or the search for Truth, it's a child's taunt. I'm sure you're intelligent, but I doubt your candor and intent.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 10:09 AM
ninnie
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01/25/2013 10:09 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Athiests have a paedophiled mind caused from "Christianity" which is the false vine. Read Revelations it describes the deceit, a tragedy. A child born needs full protection from loving parents who are not deceived by the beast.
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/25/2013 10:11 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Athiests have a paedophiled mind caused from "Christianity" which is the false vine. Read Revelations it describes the deceit, a tragedy. A child born needs full protection from loving parents who are not deceived by the beast.
 Quoting: ninnie 32991695


Now see, that's not helpful. It's not a reasonable statement. It shows bias. It doesn't prove anything. It's not a good witness, and shows a severe lacking of being an ambassador for Christ. I hope instead that you try harder and more sincerely.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/25/2013 10:12 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
[link to www.talkorigins.org]
This should help cut through any crap in his videos.
nzreva

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01/25/2013 10:12 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


In Genesis 1:1 it reads from the Hebrew text, In A beginning created Gods Alph Tav Heavens the Alph Tav Earth.
I believe in a higher source than the Gods that were created by A beginning..... Thread: Genesis 1:1 In a Beginning created Gods
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 10:14 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
...


Welcome to brainwashing 101
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


The BRAINWASH comes from what is spoon fed to you from the world.....

That is why we live in -a sick, world that has always needed a healer, and millions of people have been healed by him...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6038128


Honestly, the people who have been spoon fed are the ones who get sucked into religion. For most, however, it's not really their fault. Religion is generally passed down from generation to generation and it's what people grow up with. They, in turn, pass it down...and so forth and so on.

I don't believe people have been healed by "him." I see it more as a religious placebo effect. Never underestimate the power of thought.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


your so wrong....

GOD is not a Religion...

GOD is a Creator his Laws in the Universe and on earth were ordained by himself in the heavens....

Religion might be passed down but Faith is not...
religion does not hold you to a life of repentance, faith, righteousness and
Change of heart...Sincere faith does.....

That is why you see so many people identify with an organized faith living a life of total un-righteousness....

The Church is not a religion, it is a people both Jew and Gentile united together in one true faith of Jesus Christ.....

You don't understand because you are not of the church...
If you don,t think millions of people over the last 2000 years have been healed by faith in Christ and still our daily, you truly live in a isolated world.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 6038128


You contradicted yourself in this response.

But anyway, what about the people before 2000 years ago. Were any of them saved? Were any of them healed? If so, how? Jesus wasn't around.

By the way, regarding Christianity, this is a religion that largely "borrowed" from the Pagans so that, because of familiarity with symbols etc., it would be easier for Pagans to convert to Christianity.

It's a common theme with many religions, not just Christianity.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 10:18 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/25/2013 10:19 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Since a lot of this is very clouded and messy, I suggest everyone for the sake of the pursuit of answering the question, read this exchange,
Thread: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why? (Page 3)
The OP asked for a rational way to decide in believing in god.
I supplied those rational ways by famous philosophical proofs of God.

Now, it's up to the OP to read them. Otherwise, it's basically a foolish pursuit.

Practically every other post save one on proofs of God from a philosophical basis are superfluous to the discussion.
Thread: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why? (Page 5)

We're not discussing the authority of Scripture or Evolution.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 10:22 AM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
you are comfortable, why change.
SwanSong
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01/25/2013 10:21 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
you already have a god, name of the father of the lie, Satan, John 8:44, so why do you want another one? Greedy?- or what?- or just collecting gods?
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 10:27 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
you already have a god, name of the father of the lie, Satan, John 8:44, so why do you want another one? Greedy?- or what?- or just collecting gods?
 Quoting: SwanSong 1261955


Satan is just a Hebrew word for "adversary." Satan was personified by man.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 10:27 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
If I had more time, I'd get into some of these. Maybe later. For now, you should do a little research on these and we can discuss. These are more philosophical arguments developed through the years and popularized more recently by people like Dr. William L. Craig.

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument


The Moral Argument
1.If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.

2.Objective moral values and duties do exist.

3.Therefore, God exists.


The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning


The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God’s Existence to His Actuality
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


Yeah, this is good and what the OP should be doing if being truthful, but I doubt his seriousness. That's heavy reading and a single page can require 30 minutes or more to really study (more like hours of contemplation). I suggested something similar from St. Anselm to Aquinas and Augustine as well as the major thinkers. Then having read those, there are numerous spinoffs like Kant, Kierkegard, the post-moderns, the Christian and Jewish existentialists, and criticsms of all of them too.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


I realized after I posted those arguments that those are heavy-weight arguments and may not be a great starting place-- like feeding steak to an infant. I think the Moral Argument can be grasped by most people, though. It's pretty straightforward, easy to digest, and you'd have to employ faulty logic and awkward intellectual gymnastics to get around it. Great suggestions by you, though. I haven't read from St. Anselm, so I'll have to check him out.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 10:28 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
One many evidences, that helps to disprove atheism.

Find NDEs, in which veridical information is revealed.

For example, here's a real case.

A person has an NDE. Goes to heaven, and learn of information about the deceased they saw in heaven.

This information was previously unknown, and impossible for the person to have known about.

After the NDE, it was discovered the information to be true down to the exact details.

Psychologists, neurologists, atheists, can not explain these types of NDEs, in which veridical info is discovered.
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/25/2013 10:31 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
If I had more time, I'd get into some of these. Maybe later. For now, you should do a little research on these and we can discuss. These are more philosophical arguments developed through the years and popularized more recently by people like Dr. William L. Craig.

The Cosmological Argument from Contingency

The Kalam Cosmological Argument


The Moral Argument
1.If God does not exist, objective moral values and duties do not exist.

2.Objective moral values and duties do exist.

3.Therefore, God exists.


The Teleological Argument from Fine-tuning


The Ontological Argument from the Possibility of God’s Existence to His Actuality
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


Yeah, this is good and what the OP should be doing if being truthful, but I doubt his seriousness. That's heavy reading and a single page can require 30 minutes or more to really study (more like hours of contemplation). I suggested something similar from St. Anselm to Aquinas and Augustine as well as the major thinkers. Then having read those, there are numerous spinoffs like Kant, Kierkegard, the post-moderns, the Christian and Jewish existentialists, and criticsms of all of them too.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


I realized after I posted those arguments that those are heavy-weight arguments and may not be a great starting place-- like feeding steak to an infant. I think the Moral Argument can be grasped by most people, though. It's pretty straightforward, easy to digest, and you'd have to employ faulty logic and awkward intellectual gymnastics to get around it. Great suggestions by you, though. I haven't read from St. Anselm, so I'll have to check him out.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


Did you go to seminary?

A lot of people try to witness to an atheist, and sometimes atheists simply have some fun with them. I suspect that's what's going on, but not by a trained student of the Humanities.

It's too bad, because this could be an interesting topic and quite on point regarding conspiracies too. However real belief in God comes from the heart, but reading some in-depth philosophy can be an elegant way to believe as well.
1 Corinthians 3:2

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 10:33 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
[link to www.iep.utm.edu]
St. Anselm's Ontological Argument
"
1.It is a conceptual truth (or, so to speak, true by definition) that God is a being than which none greater can be imagined (that is, the greatest possible being that can be imagined).
2. God exists as an idea in the mind.
3. A being that exists as an idea in the mind and in reality is, other things being equal, greater than a being that exists only as an idea in the mind.
4. Thus, if God exists only as an idea in the mind, then we can imagine something that is greater than God (that is, a greatest possible being that does exist).
5. But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God (for it is a contradiction to suppose that we can imagine a being greater than the greatest possible being that can be imagined.)
6. Therefore, God exists."

Edit: For those who are intellectually challenged by lack of training in philosophy:

"Intuitively, one can think of the argument as being powered by two ideas. The first, expressed by Premise 2, is that we have a coherent idea of a being that instantiates all of the perfections. Otherwise put, Premise 2 asserts that we have a coherent idea of a being that instantiates every property that makes a being greater, other things being equal, than it would have been without that property (such properties are also known as “great-making” properties). Premise 3 asserts that existence is a perfection or great-making property.

Accordingly, the very concept of a being that instantiates all the perfections implies that it exists. Suppose B is a being that instantiates all the perfections and suppose B doesn’t exist (in reality). Since Premise 3 asserts that existence is a perfection, it follows that B lacks a perfection. But this contradicts the assumption that B is a being that instantiates all the perfections. Thus, according to this reasoning, it follows that B exists."

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 10:42 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
One many evidences, that helps to disprove atheism.

Find NDEs, in which veridical information is revealed.

For example, here's a real case.

A person has an NDE. Goes to heaven, and learn of information about the deceased they saw in heaven.

This information was previously unknown, and impossible for the person to have known about.

After the NDE, it was discovered the information to be true down to the exact details.

Psychologists, neurologists, atheists, can not explain these types of NDEs, in which veridical info is discovered.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32923844


Here's a follow-up to that case. The person later admitted that they originally knew of the information, but had forgotten about it for a long time, and then was reminded of it later on.

See how that works?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
[link to www.iep.utm.edu]
St. Anselm's Ontological Argument
"
1.It is a conceptual truth (or, so to speak, true by definition) that God is a being than which none greater can be imagined (that is, the greatest possible being that can be imagined).
2. God exists as an idea in the mind.
3. A being that exists as an idea in the mind and in reality is, other things being equal, greater than a being that exists only as an idea in the mind.
4. Thus, if God exists only as an idea in the mind, then we can imagine something that is greater than God (that is, a greatest possible being that does exist).
5. But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God (for it is a contradiction to suppose that we can imagine a being greater than the greatest possible being that can be imagined.)
6. Therefore, God exists."
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Okay, yes, I am very familiar with this argument and line of thinking-- the name St. Anselm didn't ring a bell at first. To answer your other question, I've actually applied to seminary several times, but have never attended (one class aside). I'd still like to go at some point. Right now I just do my own research in Theology and Philosophy. What about you?
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/25/2013 10:46 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
[link to www.iep.utm.edu]
St. Anselm's Ontological Argument
"
1.It is a conceptual truth (or, so to speak, true by definition) that God is a being than which none greater can be imagined (that is, the greatest possible being that can be imagined).
2. God exists as an idea in the mind.
3. A being that exists as an idea in the mind and in reality is, other things being equal, greater than a being that exists only as an idea in the mind.
4. Thus, if God exists only as an idea in the mind, then we can imagine something that is greater than God (that is, a greatest possible being that does exist).
5. But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God (for it is a contradiction to suppose that we can imagine a being greater than the greatest possible being that can be imagined.)
6. Therefore, God exists."
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Okay, yes, I am very familiar with this argument and line of thinking-- the name St. Anselm didn't ring a bell at first. To answer your other question, I've actually applied to seminary several times, but have never attended (one class aside). I'd still like to go at some point. Right now I just do my own research in Theology and Philosophy. What about you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


I considered it and came close. We're not all called and some don't listen to the call. I hope you discern your path on the journey of serving God. I felt you must have at least entertained it. A person going to seminary must have the love of God in his heart as well as using the mind that God gave us. Then we can both persuade by emotional as well as rational means. The height of all belief is to embrace both and find that we have an innate love for God as well as a conviction of the proof of God by reason.

One may come to a mystical experience of God's presence or what I call Ultimate Reality by either method, but sadly most people don't use the rational road. A lot of pastors and priest can't use logic, and to their credit they spend a lot of time in sincere witnessing. However that method won't work on atheists to their great consternation.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 10:50 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
[link to www.iep.utm.edu]
St. Anselm's 2nd Ontological Argument for God (more elegant)

1.By definition, God is a being than which none greater can be imagined.
2. A being that necessarily exists in reality is greater than a being that does not necessarily exist.
3. Thus, by definition, if God exists as an idea in the mind but does not necessarily exist in reality, then we can imagine something that is greater than God.
4. But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God.
5. Thus, if God exists in the mind as an idea, then God necessarily exists in reality.
6. God exists in the mind as an idea.
7. Therefore, God necessarily exists in reality.

By the way, one need not believe in God or a Supreme Being at the beginning of this, only that it's possible and that one could imagine it i.e. define what God would be is God existed. From that point, the inevitable logic is that God exists.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 10:57 AM

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