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I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

 
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science? ~ Carl Sagan
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
[link to www.iep.utm.edu]
St. Anselm's Ontological Argument
"
1.It is a conceptual truth (or, so to speak, true by definition) that God is a being than which none greater can be imagined (that is, the greatest possible being that can be imagined).
2. God exists as an idea in the mind.
3. A being that exists as an idea in the mind and in reality is, other things being equal, greater than a being that exists only as an idea in the mind.
4. Thus, if God exists only as an idea in the mind, then we can imagine something that is greater than God (that is, a greatest possible being that does exist).
5. But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God (for it is a contradiction to suppose that we can imagine a being greater than the greatest possible being that can be imagined.)
6. Therefore, God exists."
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Okay, yes, I am very familiar with this argument and line of thinking-- the name St. Anselm didn't ring a bell at first. To answer your other question, I've actually applied to seminary several times, but have never attended (one class aside). I'd still like to go at some point. Right now I just do my own research in Theology and Philosophy. What about you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


I considered it and came close. We're not all called and some don't listen to the call. I hope you discern your path on the journey of serving God. I felt you must have at least entertained it. A person going to seminary must have the love of God in his heart as well as using the mind that God gave us. Then we can both persuade by emotional as well as rational means. The height of all belief is to embrace both and find that we have an innate love for God as well as a conviction of the proof of God by reason.

One may come to a mystical experience of God's presence or what I call Ultimate Reality by either method, but sadly most people don't use the rational road. A lot of pastors and priest can't use logic, and to their credit they spend a lot of time in sincere witnessing. However that method won't work on atheists to their great consternation.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


I completely agree that we must embrace both because God is experienced by both means and is the perfect representation of both. I've found that more people have responded in faith in Christ via displays of love and testimony, as opposed to a great apologetical argument. But I'm sure God can use both methods.

"We've accepted a false dichotomy and church's have been guilty of this...we're not saying it's faith and reason in opposition to each other...faith is not the absence of reason, but faith is not totally dependent on reason. We can have a reasonable faith." -Stuart McAllister (Just Thinking with Ravi Zacharias, Calvary Chapel Q&A, Part 1)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
One many evidences, that helps to disprove atheism.

Find NDEs, in which veridical information is revealed.

For example, here's a real case.

A person has an NDE. Goes to heaven, and learn of information about the deceased they saw in heaven.

This information was previously unknown, and impossible for the person to have known about.

After the NDE, it was discovered the information to be true down to the exact details.

Psychologists, neurologists, atheists, can not explain these types of NDEs, in which veridical info is discovered.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32923844


Here's a follow-up to that case. The person later admitted that they originally knew of the information, but had forgotten about it for a long time, and then was reminded of it later on.

See how that works?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


Nice theory, but nope.

Here's a real example. A woman learned of information about a deceased girl, that she didn't even know. Afterwards, the information, that was discovered, was not known by anyone but the girl, which was later discovered in her diary, that not even her own family knew about.
Don'tBeAfraid

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
[link to www.iep.utm.edu]
St. Anselm's Ontological Argument
"
1.It is a conceptual truth (or, so to speak, true by definition) that God is a being than which none greater can be imagined (that is, the greatest possible being that can be imagined).
2. God exists as an idea in the mind.
3. A being that exists as an idea in the mind and in reality is, other things being equal, greater than a being that exists only as an idea in the mind.
4. Thus, if God exists only as an idea in the mind, then we can imagine something that is greater than God (that is, a greatest possible being that does exist).
5. But we cannot imagine something that is greater than God (for it is a contradiction to suppose that we can imagine a being greater than the greatest possible being that can be imagined.)
6. Therefore, God exists."
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


Okay, yes, I am very familiar with this argument and line of thinking-- the name St. Anselm didn't ring a bell at first. To answer your other question, I've actually applied to seminary several times, but have never attended (one class aside). I'd still like to go at some point. Right now I just do my own research in Theology and Philosophy. What about you?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


I considered it and came close. We're not all called and some don't listen to the call. I hope you discern your path on the journey of serving God. I felt you must have at least entertained it. A person going to seminary must have the love of God in his heart as well as using the mind that God gave us. Then we can both persuade by emotional as well as rational means. The height of all belief is to embrace both and find that we have an innate love for God as well as a conviction of the proof of God by reason.

One may come to a mystical experience of God's presence or what I call Ultimate Reality by either method, but sadly most people don't use the rational road. A lot of pastors and priest can't use logic, and to their credit they spend a lot of time in sincere witnessing. However that method won't work on atheists to their great consternation.
 Quoting: Don'tBeAfraid


I completely agree that we must embrace both because God is experienced by both means and is the perfect representation of both. I've found that more people have responded in faith in Christ via displays of love and testimony, as opposed to a great apologetical argument. But I'm sure God can use both methods.

"We've accepted a false dichotomy and church's have been guilty of this...we're not saying it's faith and reason in opposition to each other...faith is not the absence of reason, but faith is not totally dependent on reason. We can have a reasonable faith." -Stuart McAllister (Just Thinking with Ravi Zacharias, Calvary Chapel Q&A, Part 1)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989


Indeed. We cannot know the true nature of God, only glimmers because we are limited beings. Yet if we are God's creation, and made in the image of God, then the intellect is an aspect of the image of God. It is as much an aspect as the soul of us.

As Christians, we could flex our brains as well as our heart and so do more, not less for the Kingdom of Heaven.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 11:33 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
One many evidences, that helps to disprove atheism.

Find NDEs, in which veridical information is revealed.

For example, here's a real case.

A person has an NDE. Goes to heaven, and learn of information about the deceased they saw in heaven.

This information was previously unknown, and impossible for the person to have known about.

After the NDE, it was discovered the information to be true down to the exact details.

Psychologists, neurologists, atheists, can not explain these types of NDEs, in which veridical info is discovered.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32923844


Here's a follow-up to that case. The person later admitted that they originally knew of the information, but had forgotten about it for a long time, and then was reminded of it later on.

See how that works?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


Nice theory, but nope.

Here's a real example. A woman learned of information about a deceased girl, that she didn't even know. Afterwards, the information, that was discovered, was not known by anyone but the girl, which was later discovered in her diary, that not even her own family knew about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32923844


Oh yeah I heard about that story. But it was later learned that, although the woman didn't know the girl, she knew the girl's friend real well, and the friend was very knowledgable of the diary and disclosed some info to the woman. Debunked.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 11:34 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


Well right there you muffed it. Serving God and being called to him is not rationally decided. It is a saving work of the Holy Spirit. God doesn't need you. Faith comes when you, the creation, realize you NEED your Creator.

Done.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 11:40 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
One many evidences, that helps to disprove atheism.

Find NDEs, in which veridical information is revealed.

For example, here's a real case.

A person has an NDE. Goes to heaven, and learn of information about the deceased they saw in heaven.

This information was previously unknown, and impossible for the person to have known about.

After the NDE, it was discovered the information to be true down to the exact details.

Psychologists, neurologists, atheists, can not explain these types of NDEs, in which veridical info is discovered.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32923844


Here's a follow-up to that case. The person later admitted that they originally knew of the information, but had forgotten about it for a long time, and then was reminded of it later on.

See how that works?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


Nice theory, but nope.

Here's a real example. A woman learned of information about a deceased girl, that she didn't even know. Afterwards, the information, that was discovered, was not known by anyone but the girl, which was later discovered in her diary, that not even her own family knew about.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32923844


Oh yeah I heard about that story. But it was later learned that, although the woman didn't know the girl, she knew the girl's friend real well, and the friend was very knowledgable of the diary and disclosed some info to the woman. Debunked.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


Good guess. But nope.

If you 'knew' this.

What was the girl's name, what was in the diary, what was the name of the woman.

Guaranteed, you don't know this, and don't know about this case.

And making up, the info, that the woman knew the girl's friends.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 11:45 AM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


Well right there you muffed it. Serving God and being called to him is not rationally decided. It is a saving work of the Holy Spirit. God doesn't need you. Faith comes when you, the creation, realize you NEED your Creator.

Done.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26420358


Typical arrogance
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/25/2013 11:53 AM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


Well right there you muffed it. Serving God and being called to him is not rationally decided. It is a saving work of the Holy Spirit. God doesn't need you. Faith comes when you, the creation, realize you NEED your Creator.

Done.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26420358


Close. Read:
Thread: Last minute tips for parents when the SHTF (Page 34)

Yeshua (Jesus) tells us what we must do to be called by YHWH. It's up to YHWH (God) to decide to call us, but first we must not fear to be exposed of our sin.
John 6:44 Jesus said "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up on the last day.''
John 3:19-21 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. “But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

We can't approach the Presence of God unless we stop being fearing exposure. Then when we "practice truth, we are allowed to come into the Presence of God.

Now what those two things mean, is complicated and you'd need to do some serious prayer for the Intercession of the Holy Spirit to understand it as well as using your mind to look at the original language. Only then could you hope to comprehend it.

Not all are called, and for a reason (at least some).

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 11:56 AM
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science? ~ Carl Sagan
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


Science is dependant on its governing laws (and its patterns) without which reliability and accuracy wouldn't exist. How does Sagan think these laws came into being. Are laws really the product of randomness and chance? He utilizes a product (scientific laws) while denying its producer (the lawmaker-- God). He was intellectually dishonest, naive or just hard-hearted. Of course, he understands that now.
spiritwarrior7
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
You can connect to the ONE thru meditative prayer.
We all come from, and shall return to the ONE.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Study Buddhism. No need to care if there's a God or not.
Don'tBeAfraid

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Think of how many religions attempt to validate themselves with prophecy. Think of how many people rely on these prophecies, however vague, however unfulfilled, to support or prop up their beliefs. Yet has there ever been a religion with the prophetic accuracy and reliability of science? ~ Carl Sagan
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23229603


Science is dependant on its governing laws (and its patterns) without which reliability and accuracy wouldn't exist. How does Sagan think these laws came into being. Are laws really the product of randomness and chance? He utilizes a product (scientific laws) while denying its producer (the lawmaker-- God). He was intellectually dishonest, naive or just hard-hearted. Of course, he understands that now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 85989

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Isn't it amusing that people forget the history of how logic and reason came to be? They ignore the long history of spirituality to carefully nurture science and reason and law by the Church. Instead they only look at abberations like Galileo which is jumping many centuries forward.

The great writings, the great art, the science, literature, much of it preserved and paid for by the Church. It wasn't all repression, for monks carefully brought back scientific texts and philosphy and history and law from the Holy Lands at the time of the medieval crusades.

Religious people in the Middle East like the Jews and Muslims had preserved ancient knowledge the Greeks and Romans. Had they not, then it all would have been lost during the Dark Ages.

It's so anti-intellectual to just ignore what really happened. Even when texts were in direct opposition from heretical Gnostic sources, they still were preserved by Jews and Christians living in Nag Hammadi.

Spiritual people in history preserved knowledge. They weren't on some rampage and destroying it all, though some did, not all did.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 12:12 PM
BOWMAN

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Well, at least Carl was honest in naming science a religion.

lmao


------
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Hey OP, I'm atheist as well. It's been 10 years since I dropped religion. Reading through this thread, it has astounded me the abundance of ignorance about atheism. If anyone wants to engage in a polite discussion to pick my brain, I would be glad to do so. I participated in every type of debate you could imagine regarding religion for many years, so I know the conclusions to many of the arguments off the top of my head. Rather than going through the motions, I could just tell you what your position likely is (if you are the typical "believer") and how you will likely respond to each argument. I find this avoids most of he name calling and time wasted. You could just glance through the entire process and see conclusions for both parties without using a single brain cell.
nzreva

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


In Genesis 1:1 it reads from the Hebrew text, In A beginning created Gods Alph Tav Heavens the Alph Tav Earth.
I believe in a higher source than the Gods that were created by A beginning..... Thread: Genesis 1:1 In a Beginning created Gods
 Quoting: nzreva


Alph = 1 Tav=400
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

1. You shouldn't "believe" anything. Belief is only required with something where there is a lack of evidence/facts and faith is required.This is not the case with the existence of God. Would you suggest that trees are alive and wiggle their leaves or would you say that an unseen force moves them? (wind)

2. Religion is a man made creation designed to hide truth and control you. Avoid it.

3. Going back to point 1 ; there is VERY LITTLE knowledge/facts that are unavailable these days. Everything is literally at your finger tips. The problem is sorting through all the BS to put the real picture together of what's going on. This is the difficult part.

4.You can find God through many different routes. I think everyones journey if they choose to take it is different but if you have an open heart and mind and seek earnestly you will find the answers.

My personal journey was to figure out who the "greys" were; not to "find God" which is how it ended. That lead me on a 20 year quest that required me to throw out every idea and belief I had (over time) and wrap my mind around some really incredible information. You'll end up studying ancient history,theoretical physics and on and on. Or if you don't want to put in the work then just go with faith and the information and understanding will come along the way.

bump
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
As a former athiest, I will tell you what I had found. I assume you are highly intelligent for chooseing athiesm and not a doctrine presented. I looked to philosophy. An great athiest, Jean-Paul Sartre. Existentialism is Humanism.

[link to www.marxists.org]


"But there is another sense of the word, of which the fundamental meaning is this: Man is all the time outside of himself: it is in projecting and losing himself beyond himself that he makes man to exist; and, on the other hand, it is by pursuing transcendent aims that he himself is able to exist. Since man is thus self-surpassing, and can grasp objects only in relation to his self-surpassing, he is himself the heart and center of his transcendence. There is no other universe except the human universe, the universe of human subjectivity. This relation of transcendence as constitutive of man (not in the sense that God is transcendent, but in the sense of self-surpassing) with subjectivity (in such a sense that man is not shut up in himself but forever present in a human universe) – it is this that we call existential humanism. This is humanism, because we remind man that there is no legislator but himself; that he himself, thus abandoned, must decide for himself; also because we show that it is not by turning back upon himself, but always by seeking, beyond himself, an aim which is one of liberation or of some particular realisation, that man can realize himself as truly human.

"

But this was the beginning.


From there I went to science. Quantums physics. Entaglement, decoherance. Ultimatly I found "God". It is not what people tell you. You wont know untill you put the effort in to find it. But if you feel a force with in, tearing everything down, it is a humbling to seek the truth.



This course took me years to come to the conclussion. I went through horrors of war, and self distruction to understand that the world, and everything in it is designed to become self aware of the source of you. Nothing else.

Keep seasching, and disrgard everything beyond yourself. Your intuition is your guide. Christians call it the holy ghost, I call it the entagled energy of life interacting with your quantum mind. It all comes from the Sun, and is dispersed through all life, originating from one point beyond time and consciousness.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
check out sacred geometry..
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
god to me is simply the source.. of all that is.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


Read the bible with an open mind, heart.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Logic and faith are mutually exclusive. You cannot use one to explain or prove the other.
 Quoting: Gigolo Jesus


Not really. All logic is based on axioms i.e. propositions one takes on faith. Nothing is truly provable in words and senses can be fooled, so the only certainty a person has is his own consciousness. The experience of consciousness itself is a mystical experience and truth can only be found by exploring it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32968739


Humans can critically think. You can look at evidence, and if it doesn't stand it then it is proved wrong.
If you just explore your own conscience, what your doing is letting your imagination take over. Like with prayer, and becomes increasingly difficult to see past. Nothing truly mystical about it, unless you mean in a fasinating sense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


What evidence? You have input(possibly - it could be not input but complete illusion - there is no way of telling that anything outside of your own consciousness exists), but there is no guarantee that that sensory input is true. There is also no way to know that the past has happened or that it exists. You take leaps of faith to believe all of those things. Your own consciousness (your awareness) is more fundamental than any other empirical evidence. "Thinking critically" is useless as an epistemological or ontological tool.

Exploring consciousness has nothing to do with imagination. It is the opposite: stilling all thoughts so that only awareness remains (typically awareness of some archetypal concept - without language or visual or auditory representations).
Don'tBeAfraid

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
god to me is simply the source.. of all that is.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33001581


It's entirely possible. That's classic theology from Paul Tillich. That God is the Ground of our Being. God is the Source from which all Life flows.

But, if God is the Source, then would we not acknowledge God in a manner in which we denote something that is magnificent and hence use a capital G.

For example one can say a truth, or what can look for Truth. In the same way, a deity in a story or myth can be denoted by a god, but the God that is the Source is different.

See my thread on prepping in the first link which is really about the search for the Source as found in examining Nature as the Source's creation.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 07:33 PM
Don'tBeAfraid

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
As a former athiest, I will tell you what I had found. I assume you are highly intelligent for chooseing athiesm and not a doctrine presented. I looked to philosophy. An great athiest, Jean-Paul Sartre. Existentialism is Humanism.

[link to www.marxists.org]


"But there is another sense of the word, of which the fundamental meaning is this: Man is all the time outside of himself: it is in projecting and losing himself beyond himself that he makes man to exist; and, on the other hand, it is by pursuing transcendent aims that he himself is able to exist. Since man is thus self-surpassing, and can grasp objects only in relation to his self-surpassing, he is himself the heart and center of his transcendence. There is no other universe except the human universe, the universe of human subjectivity. This relation of transcendence as constitutive of man (not in the sense that God is transcendent, but in the sense of self-surpassing) with subjectivity (in such a sense that man is not shut up in himself but forever present in a human universe) – it is this that we call existential humanism. This is humanism, because we remind man that there is no legislator but himself; that he himself, thus abandoned, must decide for himself; also because we show that it is not by turning back upon himself, but always by seeking, beyond himself, an aim which is one of liberation or of some particular realisation, that man can realize himself as truly human.

"

But this was the beginning.


From there I went to science. Quantums physics. Entaglement, decoherance. Ultimatly I found "God". It is not what people tell you. You wont know untill you put the effort in to find it. But if you feel a force with in, tearing everything down, it is a humbling to seek the truth.



This course took me years to come to the conclussion. I went through horrors of war, and self distruction to understand that the world, and everything in it is designed to become self aware of the source of you. Nothing else.

Keep seasching, and disrgard everything beyond yourself. Your intuition is your guide. Christians call it the holy ghost, I call it the entagled energy of life interacting with your quantum mind. It all comes from the Sun, and is dispersed through all life, originating from one point beyond time and consciousness.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 25196431

A true intellectual. I hope you'll talk more about your beliefs. We have much commonality, and probably only define consciousness and God in slightly different ways.

You have much to offer to this conversation and I hope you'll expand upon it. I look forward to that.

See this link too:
Thread: What is the soul?
Don'tBeAfraid

User ID: 32113282
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01/25/2013 07:38 PM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


Read the bible with an open mind, heart.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 28581697

Yes...the summation of us as soul is found in the intellect and the feeling aspect of us too. I hope you glanced back at the conversation about reason and faith.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 07:40 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
nothing is greater than god..
choose nothing!
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/25/2013 07:47 PM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Logic and faith are mutually exclusive. You cannot use one to explain or prove the other.
 Quoting: Gigolo Jesus


Not really. All logic is based on axioms i.e. propositions one takes on faith. Nothing is truly provable in words and senses can be fooled, so the only certainty a person has is his own consciousness. The experience of consciousness itself is a mystical experience and truth can only be found by exploring it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32968739


Humans can critically think. You can look at evidence, and if it doesn't stand it then it is proved wrong.
If you just explore your own conscience, what your doing is letting your imagination take over. Like with prayer, and becomes increasingly difficult to see past. Nothing truly mystical about it, unless you mean in a fasinating sense.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


What evidence? You have input(possibly - it could be not input but complete illusion - there is no way of telling that anything outside of your own consciousness exists), but there is no guarantee that that sensory input is true. There is also no way to know that the past has happened or that it exists. You take leaps of faith to believe all of those things. Your own consciousness (your awareness) is more fundamental than any other empirical evidence. "Thinking critically" is useless as an epistemological or ontological tool.

Exploring consciousness has nothing to do with imagination. It is the opposite: stilling all thoughts so that only awareness remains (typically awareness of some archetypal concept - without language or visual or auditory representations).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33024072

Another brilliant post, and spoken like a true philosopher. And I agree with one exception. I believe that we can prove we exist by a simple way.

Do you know the importance of a pendulum? A pendulum is used in a clock for a reason (and I'm making a joke there as well). A pendulum moves in a predictable manner by mathematics:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
[link to upload.wikimedia.org]
Because that is measurable, and we can observe it, then repeatable, we can prove we exist.

I watch a pendulum move. It proves that time exists for the amount of time is predictable and constant. It means that there is a continuity of time and that I exist as a being in which I observe Time.

If life was an illusion, it's doubtful that such complexity could be repeatable. It would be more random. I must exist because my thinking is ordered and my experiences are ordered.

I can talk to others and have them look at a pendulum and they also report order, time, and existence. Others exists.

Life is not an illusion. We are not insane consciousness. We are beings of Soul that can perceive true phenomena.

The perception of God by creating an idea and using logic and reason and most of all the soul(feelings of contiuity over time and analyzing memories) allows us to prove the veracity of such perceptions.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 07:49 PM
Don'tBeAfraid

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01/25/2013 07:55 PM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
nothing is greater than god..
choose nothing!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 26868696


Prove that nothing exists. You cannot do it.

If you can think of something, then there is no nothing. Nothing is the absence of something.

Even in the vastness of space, there are particles of matter. Space is not nothingness. Space is a construct for us, a model.

Nothing denotes absence and is not something by defintion. As such, nothing doesn't exist by definition. Nothing means it doesn't exist or absence.

Therefore nothing doesn't exist.

One definition for a Supreme Being would be the Personification of Being. God exists and is Existence over time.

Since God exists and persists and all existence is an aspect of Being, then God would by definition be more than nothing.

Therefore nothing is less than God. As such your assertion is false mathematically and logically.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/25/2013 09:27 PM
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2013 07:57 PM
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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?

I'm considering god, but need a rational reason to actually believe. I would never take blind faith, as you could end up in any religion just dependant on the influence around you.

Anyway, I'm searching, but need a rational way to decide.
 Quoting: Please be serious 32076855


think about it dude..u already believe or u wouldn't have to disbelieve
chrion777

User ID: 27745441
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01/25/2013 07:59 PM

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Re: I'm an Atheist. Why should I believe in a god? Which god? and why?
Logic and faith are mutually exclusive. You cannot use one to explain or prove the other.
 Quoting: Gigolo Jesus


So, faith (in a religious sense) is exclusive of reality?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32076855


thats non-sense. Faith and logic are not mutually exclusive.

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